Buick Rainier, Chevy TrailBlazer, GMC Envoy

iexplore2000 · May 2003

Hello Everyone,

I couldn't wait until this upcoming weekend, so I drove the 170 miles to pick up my new baby yesterday! 2003 Envoy SLT XL V-8 in Pewter!

I must say, it was a gem to drive home. Although, I must admit.. this is the FIRST time that I ever purchased a vehicle and brought it home in the rain. I was a little dissapointed, but that gave me more reason to crank up the Bose, sit back and relax! The return trip was very nice indeed. I reset the DIC and averaged 19.5 mpg all the way home @ 65-70 mph, I was pretty impressed.

Also, for those who are interested, I did e-mail Xenondepot.com for information concerning the Philips HID conversion for the Envoy. I will post my e-mail to Xenondepot.com and the response received:

I WROTE:
""I was referred to your website by surfing the Philips HID forum. It appears that you carry the Philips line of Xenon HID conversion kits correct?

My question to you is as follows: I have a 2003 GMC Envoy XL that I want to convert over to the Xenon HID system. I do know that this vehicle (as well as the Trail Blazer and Bravada) all use the daytime running lights feature that runs the low beam during the day. Unlike other DRL systems (like my father's 2002 Yukon Denali), the Envoy does not utilize a separate light for the DRL system, just the regular low beams.

I am a little worried because I tested my vehicle both day and night and it appears that the low beams are ALWAYS on and running at regular voltage. Therefore, IF I were to install the Xenon HID kit, would the HID lights stay on all the time since this vehicle is equipped with the DRL feature? I would hate to run the Xenon's during the day for no apparent reason, I would much rather have them switch on at night. I do know that the older body style GMC Envoy's used to do this. They had a separate light for the DRL's and at night the HID's would switch on.

Also, I know that when you unlock the doors at night, this activates the perimeter lighting feature which flashes the low beams twice and then illuminates them for approximately 40 seconds (or until you get into the vehicle and turn the key). Any information that you could provide concerning this would be greatly appreciated? """

RESPONSE RECEIVED:
""You are 100% correct about your assumption that the DRL will be an issue because they will be given that they operate on a fluctuating current (as opposed to a stable 12V). We have however found a solution to this issue via the use of a capacitor. Doing so however would cause your HID bulbs to be on all the time. The only way to have the HID lights only on at night would be to disable your DRL.""

Also, he mentioned that he knows a guy that has this kit on his Envoy. He suggested that I contact this guy to gather his thoughts about the system and how well it's working for his vehicle. Stay tuned, hopefully I can bring more information concerning this for those who are interested.

Thanks!

IExplore2000

jay_24 · May 2003

I've had the same question on the car seats. (looking to replace a minivan with an Envoy)
My Subaru Outback can do it just barely. the seat measures 51 inches across in the Outback. The triplets measure like 54 or something. So depending on car seat width (make/model) it should work.

I'm guessing an XL model will work best since kids also come with lots of toys.

PS: a Chrysler/Dodge mini van can NOT do 3 across in car seats. The biggest bench seat only measures 48 inchs.

--jay

elevatorguy · May 2003

Riding on the highway today I noticed something that I hadn't before, probably because I have not done much highway driving yet with this truck. At around 55 to 65 MPH there is a very noticable vibration that can best be described as similar to, but not as loud as, the noise your vehicle makes when you run onto those grooves along the side of the highway to keep you awake if you veer off. Anyone else notice this? I am guessing it is somewhere in the tranny, maybe the tourque converter. Please post back here if anyone has had similar experiences and what the dealer has had to say about it. I think I will at least get it documented to protect myself in case anything happens later on when i am off warranty.

Thanks,
Todd

richlavoie · May 2003

Good to see that I am not the only kid around...at 38 years old! I am still at 22 days from delivery and I am like a kid before christmas...

What type of external option have you put on it? I am getting a TB Light Pewter and I am thinking of putting the ventvisor and the molded hood protector. I am wondering how they would look on that color. I already have the running board factory installed.

Good luck with your new toy and I hope you sleep well in it tonight...

giddens_john · May 2003

There's an Envoy owner at http://www.gm-trucks.com that has the Philips 6000K HID Low Beams. His user name is mcali17. He did an extensive write up on it in the forums here with pictures.

iexplore2000 · May 2003

Wow.. after reading that posting on gm-trucks.com, I am quite sure that this is the same individual that Steve over at XenonDepot.com had talked about.

I surely hate to go through all of that aggravation to get Xenons? Oh well.. I will have to give that some serious thought!

Also, thanks richlavoie for wishing me good luck. I am truly enjoying my new baby. She now has a good 250 on the odometer and I STILL have 1/2 a tank of fuel left? Wow.. I'm excited.. especially if I can get that kind of mileage all the time! Also, just to let you know, today I purchased the Auto Vent Shade Bug Flector II since I really liked the one I had on my 2002 Envoy. Additionally, I bought some black door guards that I will have to cut and install myself. I may purchase the rear chrome step bar that tlauro has posted on his website. This will fill the trailer hitch hole and accentuate the rest of the chrome/brushed pewter exterior trim. Be patient my friend, you're time is coming soon, then you too will be sleeping in your new ride! :-)

Thanks Again!

IExplore2000

giddens_john · May 2003

If your too put off by the HID installation procedures then might I suggest going with some upgraded bulbs. Either PIAA xtreme white bulbs like Tim did here or SYLVANIA's SilverStar. I went with the Silverstar's due to the fact that my local auto part stores carried them, and they ended up costing $30.00 a pair after rebates. They made a noticeable improvement in light output and Color Temp. Plus starting around July Sylvania is going to release the 880 and 893 fog light bulbs in the SilverStar lamps. Just some other options for you.

ericn1 · May 2003

I sympathize with you...I picked up my new dark green metallic Trailblazer EXT LT today and it rained all the way home (but only 5 miles as opposed to 170).

I hope I am as lucky with the truck's reliability as I have been with buying it. I was able to locate this truck on GM Buypower and the dealer actually had it (actually at a sister dealership 30 miles away). The MSRP was previous to the most recent price increase and I was given the invoice price because I bought a Chevy Minivan last year from same dealer. When I took delivery I got a pleasant surprise...my sales rep pointed out that it had (I think it's called) Durabond which had been installed at the other dealer and they could not charge me for it because I had already agreed to the price. (Durabond is the 3M coating put on the front facing painted surfaces to resist chips, bugs, etc). The rep says the dealership usually charges about $550 for it.

Sorry for the long post, but I have been lurking here for about 6 months and decided to join the discussion after actually getting a Triplet.

--eric

cparise1 · May 2003

It's great to see others excited about their vehicles. My dealer, LEMAY Pontiac/Buick/GMC (Kenosha, WI) has about 30 new Envoy's. I kid you not. A few have the Vortec 5300 V8.

On another note, I have noticed some posts about engine faltering on light acceleration. With 19,991 K on my '02 Envoy XL SLT I have never experienced that condition. Quite the opposite, I have been very impressed with great throttle response especially at low speed.

Happy Motoring
Chris

cparise1 · May 2003

I can no longer select GMC directly from the initial "make" discussion selection list. I own an Envoy and I used to select GMC and then I was routed to the GMC model selection automatically, where I would choose the Envoy discussion.

Might seem like a petty complaint but potential GMC Envoy visitors might not be inclined to go any further if they don't see GMC there. What happened to it? Did I just imagine that it was there or what?

Thanks,
Chris

onlyagirl · May 2003

You guys here will be happy to know after owning my 03 Envoy for almost 5 days I finally looked under the hood....and only then because my nephew came over and asked something about v6 or straight 6....he asked me if I had looked under the hood and was appalled that I hadn't....so he made me pop the hood....it was very clean...and pretty

....Rich,I do know where the dipstick "thingy" is for the oil and yes I will check it periodically....

kpp14 · May 2003

what to get fixed or updated had it not been for all your postings.....thanks so much people! Picked up my 2002 Envoy slt from the dealer after 2 days of service and warranty work. My truck is born again. It never performed like that before! Had the PCM updated, a new transfer case (no more "shimmy" in A4wd), a new catalytic converted (now the 4.2 can exhaust properly), new reverse light (doesn't look like an aquarium anymore), new trim and caulking on the tail gate. Did not pay for any of the above. Injector flush, fuel filter, oil change. Service battery was on the bill to. What the H is that! I can see the tech guy now "yep, that there is a battery"?. The 270 hp is really easy to find now. What a thrill to drive it. This truck is awesome!
Rich you think your a kid at 38...well im 44 and almost pissed my pants I had so much fun when I picked it up and ive got 42,000km on mine. Sorry you have to wait ha ha.
iexplore2000 thats pretty extreme driving 170 miles...for sure you couldn't wait. Check the leather would you. Bye the way, no one is getting SARS after reading this but you may turn into a mad cow!

richlavoie · May 2003

Good one!!!

2k_impala_ls · May 2003

Had my 1st fill-up since my PCM update on my 02 TB. I had never got more than 14 mpg since July. Had the upgrade and got 16.5 mpg and it runs 100% better. No more hesitation and better shifts. Thanks to tblazed for the info. Would recommend the update.

aldan93 · May 2003

If you want pics of the tornado damage at the Oklahoma city plant I'll send them. You need microsoft powerpoint to view! Just reply with email address. FYI they build Envoy's, TB's, Ascenders, and Large SUV's and so on. TBLAZED these would be cool for you web site. Pics of TB's XL's smashed and on fire!!!!!!!!!!!, FYI no one got hurt!!!

johntr · May 2003

Congrats on your baby! It's good to see a repeat buyer - I too suspect I could be a repeat buyer, but I'm not leasing, so it could be some time before I need another. I have a 2002 TB LT with 42k on it now. I suspect I'll be ready for another by 200k, I generally don't get rid of my vehicles before 175k & it's not because they quit on me. However, I may consider a H2 & keep my TB ;-)

Good luck!

tblazed · May 2003

"If you want pics ....Just reply with email address."

I have an email address in my profile. Send a brief note there then I will reply with another email address to send the pics to. THANKS!

With all these positive results being reported on the PCM updates, companies like Jet and Hypertech might have missed the boat! I certainly have no desire now to spend $200-300 on any aftermarket performance repogramming. THANKS to GM!

hillfla · May 2003

Does anyone out there know if I can replace my Envoy exterior door handles with maybe Yukon or Sierra ones? They are much more ergonomic than the small-sized, rip-off-all-your-fingernails, Enovy ones. Or do you have any suggestions of who to go see and ask that question to? I stopped by my local dealer and he took the time to look up the drawings for the two door handles but then he could not tell if they are swappable so he was unable to help me. I also called a body shop and an accessories car shop and they did not know either.

Also - does anyone know if you can have heated seats installed aftermarket into the Envoy cloth seats?

Thanks!

kram18 · May 2003

Hi, I was wondering if anyone has done this or if anyone can confirm that this GM part number 12497685
is what I need for the 3 skid plates for a '03 LS trailblazer 4x4?

Thanks,
Mark

tidester · May 2003

You need microsoft powerpoint to view!

Actually, you don't need PowerPoint. Microsoft provides a PowerPoint viewer which you can download here.

tidester, host

st1100v4 · May 2003

This question was asked here and one of the answers someone (sorry don't remember who) gave was the driveshaft sliding on splines. Saw this question and answer in a "write the mechanic" column today and it says the same thing.

Question: I have a question about my 1999 Suburban. Many times when I accelerate from a complete stop, I hear a clunk noise from the rear. Two mechanics have checked this out. The dealer serviced the rear end and checked the U-joints. Another mechanic checked the rear wheel bearings by jacking the truck up and shaking the rear wheels. Still nothing indicates where the noise is coming from.

Answer: This is one of the five most common questions I get, so I answer it every few years for the benefit of those who do not read my column every month. Your clunk is probably from the splines on the transmission output shaft inside the tailcone. When you stop, they bind up on the mating splines on the driveshaft's front yoke. Compliance in the springs changes the depth of the engagement of the splines. When you reverse the direction of the torque on the driveshaft, the binding releases all at once, causing the clunk - which always seems to come from the differential. This appears to be more of a problem on trucks with larger angles on the driveshaft than on low-slung passenger cars. Ford, Chrysler and General Motors all have issued TSBs on this. The "cure" is to pack the splines with a special grease that won't dissolve in the transmission lubricant. This involves removing the front universal joint to get the front yoke loose. It's an annoying job, too annoying to do every couple of months. And that is what's necessary since this fix usually lasts for only a few thousand miles. You might also try replacing the front transmission yoke in the hope that the new part's clearances are tighter. Or just live with it.

kram18 · May 2003

I posted something about this, I guess so long as it is not damaging anything I "can live with it" Its really not annoying, I just wanted to make sure that nothing was being damaged by that noise. Thanks for the info,
Mark

caflyfish · May 2003

Regarding the surge/clunk discussion a few weeks ago, I have occasionally experienced the same thing. I have also occasionally experienced the hesitation / rpm loss when applying gas from a stop. A few times it has actually died while idling. I also get to enjoy the engine roar/fan noise occasionally and have to drive around the parking lot before I venture out onto the road.

Anyway, just had my 2002 Envoy into the dealer and he said that new PCM programming was supposed to address all of this. Not sure if it will, but it is worth a try. It has only been 3 days, so we will see after about a month.

My Envoy has 33,500 on it and I am considering an extended warranty. My dealer said they wouldn't accept a credit card from a online warranty company and strong discouraged me from buying one, stating they always have trouble getting them to pay for service, and that they always try to find loopholes to get out of covering the service.

Anybody have any opinions on GMs extended warranty plan. Specifically... Major Guard ?

rye78 · May 2003

In response to your message. I wrote about the spline slipping on message #11255. I am glad that you were able to better explain what I was trying to say. I know that Jeep (actually Chrysler) was working on the actual fix. I got rid of my jeep prior to them fixing it but they said that they were probably going to replace the drive shaft and transfer case. So I don't know if Chevy has the same plans or if they are just going to keep repacking the grease every two months. All I know is that if I have to start going back to the dealer a couple times a year to get it repacked, I'm going to be pissed.
Anyway, thanks for responding and hearing me vent.
Just for info. I have a black 2002 LS 4X4 with 25,500 miles on it. I have completely replaced the stereo with a custom one and added a viper remote start and alarm. I also have the K&N forced air intake. The vehicle is running great and besides the clunk, it has been trouble free. I love this truck!

iexplore2000 · May 2003

Thanks johntr! I am definitely enjoying my new 2003 Envoy. I took her in today to have my rust, paint and interior protection package applied. There is a local company here in Columbus, OH called Pro-Tec and I've brought them quite a bit of business over the past few years, so I continue to take my personal vehicles there to have the protection package applied. Best of all, I don't have to deal with the 80% dealer markup to have the package applied, they give it to me for a steal! At any route, THE CAR STINKS right now due to the undercoating, but the smell usually goes away in a few days. I am kinda bummed out because it's supposed to rain here over the next few days, so she will stay in the garage to allow the package to seal correctly.

To caflyfish: Concerning the GMPP Extended warranty. I posted to this site a few weeks ago about MY first experience utilizing the GMPP protection on my aunt's 2002 Chevy Trailblazer LTZ. It was NOT a pleasant experience! I almost ended up paying $300 out of my pocket because GM decided that they WERE NOT going to pay for the car rental after they had to keep the car for 2 days before a representative could come out to see it at the servicing dealer. THEN.. a portion of that $300 included a $150 check out fee that I might have been charged should GMPP decide that they were not going to cover an item that I had listed on the service order! Well.. after a LONG TALK with my service advisor and service manager, they ended up NOT charging me a dime. BUT out of the list of 14 items that needed servicing, GM ONLY covered two items! I think that it must be a mission of the GMPP folks to see how many service request they can deny! If you can search for my posting concerning this, you will see that I read the GMPP booklet thoroughly and everything that I listed was stuff that I thought that they would cover given the terms described in the booklet!

To top it off, when I took the vehicle back to have the special ordered parts installed, I had to wait because NO alternate transportation would be given. As my luck would have it, the dealer ordered one of the wrong parts so they could not complete the full repair request. Second, the parts that they did install (mirror actuator fix) did NOT correct the problem, the mirror is even worse that it was before! So.. with that being said, the Trail Blazer is NOT fixed at all.

On all of the GM vehicles that I have bought in the past, I have purchased the GMPP. Especially because of the significant price break that GM Employees and family can get on the plan. Fortunately, I've never had to use it on any of my vehicles, but after this, I've decided that I am not going the GMPP route any longer. The bad taste that they left in my mouth will never reappear again.

Oddly enough you bring this issue to the table today because I just got home and have been reviewing my papers to decide which warranty company to choose today! I am looking between 1Source Auto Warranty and Warranty Gold and have received price quotes from both that are good until midnight tonite. I did my own independent research and it appears that these two companies are rated highly with the others falling far behind. I've phoned in to both and talked more specifically about their plans and my personal concerns with the Envoy and both will pretty much bad mouth the other. For the most part, there is very little difference between the two companies besides term/length of coverage. One covers the factory installed DVD player, the other does not; One covers airbag restraint systems, the other does not, etc. So.. at any route, hopefully my information may help you to decide which route to take. I do know that within the next two or three hours, I am going to choose a plan and give it a shot. I do know that both companies have trial periods in which you are entitled a FULL refund if you are not satisfied.

Also, check out the edmunds.com post on extended warranty companies!

Good Luck!

IExplore2000

mcali17 · May 2003

I just happened to find this board, and see you guys are talking about my HID install that I purchased from Xenondepot. It really isn't that difficult.
If you have any specific questions I can help you with regarding installation of an HID system on an Envoy please let me know, I would be glad to help.

By the way, my latest upgrade is the Dual Borla Stainless Steel Exhaust. Should be in by early next week. Then I have to decide on an intake.

mcali17 · May 2003

From being on the other end, the repair side, of extended warranty companies I can tell you this. In many cases these companies are very good, the problem is, if they go out of business you are out of luck. That is one reason you are better off going with the extended warranty from GM. If GM goes out of business, we have a lot more to worry about than the warranty. But, again, the good aftermarket warranty companies are fairly reliable and easy to work with.

mcali17 · May 2003

Ok now maybe you guys can help me.

I bought my Envoy in July of 2002. I think the build date was in June. I haven't been told anything about this "update" when did it come out, and when did you guys have this done?

This is really easy for me to have done, as my Dad is my GMC Truck Dealer, but I never heard anything about it. What's the deal?

Thanks in advance.

onlyagirl · May 2003

caflyfish........I have the same loss in rpms when I accelerate from full stop.....it almost dies but hasn't yet......it actually idles fine, I think....I would like to know it the PCM update/ programming fixed the problem....oh, yeah I have an '03 Envoy...build date Jan 03.....

Rich, I'm getting the hang of this I think!

How do you like the way I threw out those rpms and pcms???

caflyfish · May 2003

I was all ready to buy a warranty from 1Source. I talked to them on the phone and the person I talked with was very knowledgeable and I was pleasantly surprised Then I asked my dealer about it. They said they would no accept their credit card, because the warranty companies have 30 days to refuse payment after their card is charged and they actually do. The dealer went on and on about these warranty companies not covering parts, making the dealer use non-approved or used parts, and in general not covering services performed. He talked about people having to sue to get there money, etc. etc. Maybe they have dealt with the less reputable warranty companies...I don't know, but it was enough to scare me away from them. The fact that I would have to front the money and then get reimbursed by 1Source if I wanted to go to my dealer kind of sealed the deal. Too bad...I really like the 150,000 warranty from 1source.

caflyfish · May 2003

It hasn't hesitated since I took it in but it hasn't actually hesitated for awhile now, even though I just took it in this week. I took it in to the dealer with a list of things to look at and it was on the list. It happened fairly routinely for about a month, then sort of went away. I wanted to let my dealer know about it though before my 36,000 miles were up. Mine never actually died when I started but I think that was because I let off the gas.

ficuss · May 2003

iexpolre2000, how many miles did your aunts' 2002 TB have for her to have to use the EXTENDED warranty for repairs? I haven't have too many good things to say about GM lately, but I would trust them to honor claims before I would a third party insurer. As far as what is covered, it's all in the book. The booklet amounts to a contract between GM and the owner of the policy. If it's broken and it's covered, they will repair it.
BTW, what were some of the 12 items they did not cover? I would like to look them up in my GMPP major plan to see if they are covered.
I'm really surprised you came back to the general after your most recent bad experience.

Frank

iexplore2000 · May 2003

She had approximatly 46,000 miles when I took it in for service. If you want to give me your e-mail address, I can e-mail you the list of the items that I asked them to address. I typed up a memo that went into detail concerning each service item and left a copy in the truck for the servicing technician and I also had given a copy to the service writer.

Thanks!

IExplore2000

food4kp · May 2003

F.Y.I- I received a recall notice in the mail today for the following:

Instrument Panel Cluster Gauges Inoperative

As far as I know (and 36,000 miles later), I haven't experienced any problems, so it will be interesting to see what they find when I bring my Envoy in on Monday.

elevatorguy · May 2003

iexplore2000,
Please post a copy of that e-mail on here. I, and I am sure most others, would like to see what types of repairs GM tried to skate out from under. I am considering an extended warranty also and would liek to see exactly what GM will try to pull if I do decide to go with them.

Thanks,
Todd

seiford · May 2003

Just an update for those of you who have said you also are experiencing what I call a "shutter" at idle. (When stopped at a red light, after 30-60 seconds, truck stutters.)

I talked to my GM Customer Service Support contact today to see if there was any update on this issue. He re-iterated that the Tech group knows about the problem and are working on a fix (no estimate on timeframe yet). He stated that the problem is TRANSMISSION related.

And he offered to extend my warranty on the tranny to 100,000 miles (from the standard 36,000)! Are they just trying to stop me from calling every 2 weeks to push for a fix? Is the fix going to require some intrusive tranny work? Not just a PCM update? Scary.

He said that my local Service Manager will be notified when a fix is available and will contact me. Proactively?

(2003 Envoy SLT, 3.73 gears, locking differential, ECAS)

m2iceman · May 2003

MCail17

"I just happened to find this board, and see you guys are talking about my HID install that I purchased from Xenondepot. It really isn't that difficult.
If you have any specific questions I can help you with regarding installation of an HID system on an Envoy please let me know, I would be glad to help."

Can you drop me an email, M2Iceman@Aol.com. You live close and I would like to see how you made out with the pipes and HID.

tblazed · May 2003

Latest calibrations came out between Dec'02 and Feb '03 so if you haven't had anything done since you bought it, you might want to get it done. The consensus is that the overall improvements are quite good.

ficuss · May 2003

iexplore2000, why not simply post the repair list here so we can all benefit from it. I'm sure we would all like to see just how bad the GM extended warranty plan is. Why waste money on a plan if it doesn't cover 12 out of 14 devices or parts that need repair.
Besides, I get enough spam and other unsolicited email. Posting an email address on a board only invites more.

Frank

2yearleaseonly · May 2003

I'm with Frank, post it here. I am mighty curious as well!

I thought you would be happy to know, I wrote the chairman of GM about my lousy zone rep and the lack of help by him with my "vibrating gas pedal". Someone from his office called, and admitted they have a problem they cant fix. So to compensate me they gave me a smart care package which means I get free oil changes and tire rotations until the end of my lease. He also admitted that the zone rep was a bit of of a dim bulb as well.

All's well that ends well

kmigliaccio855 · May 2003

I've had my truck since September and have always averaged 13-14 mpg I am glad I found this board with other interested it getting the most out of a great engine/chassis I think after all the the talk about the PCM Calibration I need to get in line for service. I tried to get duals installed and was told there was no room on the EXT due to the filler line for the gas tank anyone have any suggestions? Also ready to have the rear gasket around license plate replaced for the third time...

tblazed · May 2003

Since you are taking yours in to get this done, please let us know if they provide a new method for getting the shift out of Park if the electrical system fails - "update your Owner's Manual" as it states. I do not want that part messed with unless they provide an alternate way to do it. Got my notice today.

jr45 · May 2003

I took my 03 Bravada on a 3 day trip up in the Blue Ridge Mountains and gave it a bit of a torture test. It was raining like crazy the night we got up there, so I was thankful for the sure footing provided by the big Michelin Cross Terrain tires. We stayed at a resort on top of a mountain, and the Bravada had no trouble pulling up the steep, skinny roads. The engine has power to spare, and I was impressed that the transmission always seemed to choose the right gear for the speed and the grade of the hill. No need to manually shift down.

The big test came when I went offroad onto a narrow, rocky, muddy fire road that twisted up a mountain. The Bravada had no problems at all, and the SmartTrak AWL system worked flawlessly. I was impressed at how "smart" it really is. I felt the power going to the front wheels and pulling up the steeper parts of the road. At several of the steep sections, I punched it a little and the front wheels immediately bit and allowed me to scramble up the road and keep perfect control.

For those of you who don't have one yet, the must-have accessory is a GPS system. I added a Garmin V mapping GPS that I was able to mount easily on the dash right above the a/c vents. I was able to navigate my way around the mountains with no fear of getting lost. This is a great system, and Amazon is selling them at a reduced price, plus there is a $75 rebate.

Overall, I am impressed at the sophisticated powertrain GM has built into these vehicles. Too bad the SmartTrak AWL system isn't available in the other triplets, because it is a gem.

elevatorguy · May 2003

Guys, I posted a question earlier about changing over to a Bose system and was told it was near impossible. Well, I have another question. I am interested in upgrading to the non-Bose 6 disc CD in-dash changer. If I buy one of these used, what is involved in getting it to work after I put it in. I understand these use TheftLock and the code must be overridden some how. Anyone do this yet? How is the quality of the 6 disc as compared to the single disc that comes standard? I am a little disappointed with the single disc sound and I am hoping that the changer is a little more powerful. Anyone have any input on this?

Thanks in advance,
Todd

ficuss · June 2003

elevatorguy, just between you and me, (please no-one else read this). Posting a way to get around the theft lock on the radio would in a sense render the theftlock radios no longer theft proof, and actually creat a market for our radios. Someone could then steal your radio and mine too, and use them in their heap. I say, lets not let this cat out of the bag. If you or anyone else happens to know how to defeat the theftlock, keep it to yourselves. PLEASE

Frank

tblazed · June 2003

http://service.gm.com./gmtechlink/arcv_pdf/9_01_e.pdf

Check out this GM Techlink article about radio swapping. This will help answer your questions.

The 6-disc non-Bose has the same power output as the single disc unit.

By the way, there is no particular value for these radios, used. Check eBay. Some go for just a few dollars. There's a 6-disc unit on there now at $10.50 ! Theft-wise, not worth the trouble.

zueslewis · June 2003

as a person who deals in warranty coverages, breaches of warranty, lemon law, and has previously been a service manager dealing with aftermarket warranty companies, I strongly recommend against any warranty not sponsored by the manufacturer.

1) Any warranty of than a GMPP IS NOT a "warranty" - it's an insurance policy, and from a breach of warranty perspective, you have no legal recourse should your vehicle not be repaired correctly or the service dept not invest enough time and effort to correct your problem.

The "service contract" company's only responsibility is to PAY YOUR CLAIM, should your claim even be authorized.

2) Most dealerships are set up to only accept the aftermarket extended service contract THEY sell, if they sell one at all (2 of 3 dealer groups I worked for sold manufacturer only). You are faced with covering the repair - a repair that you may not have any idea whether the extended service contract company will cover. until you are reimbursed.

3) Service advisors HATE jumping through hoops. On an average day, I'd write 100 repair orders, dealing with 100 people. If 3 or 4 had aftermarket service contracts, I'd easily spend 2-3 hours of my day on the phone, talked to ESC reps, getting authorizations, requesting inspections (see below), etc. For 3-4 customers. Which one of those customers would you rather deal with and treat better - the 3-4 that take 1/3 of your day, or the other 96 that aren't a hassle?

4) Most larger repairs require an inspection by an adjuster before the repair is authorized. The opposite of this is that the service manager at the dealership is the authorizing agent for manufacturer-sponsored warranties.

I've had people have to wait 3-4 days before an adjuster could inspect a vehicle. During that period, the customer had to authorize HIS money to pay for teardown (on an engine or transmission); there was no rental authorized UNTIL the repair was authorized; and parts couldn't be ordered until authorized, causing more delays.

With GMPP, if you blow an engine or transmission, you're off the road for 2-3 days, with a rental. With the private contracts, it's 2-3 days before they can even order parts.

tblazed · June 2003

I received an offer from "United American Warranty" by Great American Ins Co. Sounded good at first because they offer a 100,000 mile policy with NO TIME LIMIT. ( Or until the company goes belly-up, whichever comes first!) That sounded great since I don't drive more than 8-10K miles a year. But, reading all the long, impressive list of things covered, there are a LOT of things that are not listed that can fail and be expensive. You have to be fairly knowledgable reading the list to realize things, like the Body Control Module, are not covered.

zueslewis · June 2003

like the BCM, Powertrain Control Module (PCM), airbag modules, door lock actuators, various sensors, etc, that you're more likely to have trouble with, than say, an engine connecting rod that is part of the rotating assembly.

mcali17 · June 2003

#11479 of 11490 PCM Upgrade by mcali17 by tblazed May 31, 2003 (10:20 am)
Latest calibrations came out between Dec'02 and Feb '03 so if you haven't had anything done since you bought it, you might want to get it done. The consensus is that the overall improvements are quite good.

Cool- But which one, or all of them? The only one I had done was for the 4WD selector Problem. I ran my VIN through GM's Calibration Information Search and it came up with 20 computer updates for Operating System Software, Engine Calibration, Transmission Calibration, Speedometer Calibration, System Calibration and Electronic Throttle Control Calibration.

So when you guys say you had the update done, did they update everything???

Buick Rainier, Chevy TrailBlazer, GMC Envoy

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