Buick Rainier, Chevy TrailBlazer, GMC Envoy

ficuss · June 2003

In the spirit of those who would refer to the Ford Explorer as the Exploder, and given the number of major and minor complaints with the Trailblazer ,I would like to re-name the TB the Frailblazer.

Frank

elevatorguy · June 2003

I have a question about the GM website where you enter your VIN. Do the codes they give you show what you currently have or what is available? My truck was in today for the "hiccup" it gives coming off idle when cold as well as vibration at around 60 MPH. The dealer "could not duplicate" either problem. I was surprised that they did not do a PCM update to try and fix the stumble at idle. If anyone can tell me what the codes on the website mean I would be grateful. Also, I saw that on some items, there is more than 1 code listed. What does this mean?

Thanks,
Todd

momstruck1 · June 2003

FRAILBLAZER!!!it is the best thing i've heard in a long time.

laz4790 · June 2003

I enjoy all the power and ride but I cant wait to return this thing after lease ends in june of 2004. Too many little problems with this Frailblazer.

ficuss · June 2003

about something for the other 2 triplets.

Frank

cparise1 · June 2003

was right on. I laughed, and it was a needed respite from all the tragedy scattered about on the board. I've got an '02 Envoy XL SLT, now with 21K miles on it, and its as solid, rattle free, and quiet as the day I bought it. Can I make the monster squeak a little? Yup, if I hit a big enough pothole, but I've got more important things to worry about like Monkeypox, SARS, West Nile virus, Osama, Sadam, and so on.

I've been tuning in to the board for over a year now and find myself checking in less and less because its a real downer reading all the petty posts from the same group of folks.

I guess I'm a real contrarian--I even like OnStar and renewed for another 2 years.

I bet that'll get the board humming!

Happy Motoring (try to at least)
Chris

mickey65 · June 2003

I have an 03 Trailblazer and I have a rattling noise when I'm at a stoplight. It's either a rattle or a vibration...not sure how to accurately classify it. It starts when I'm fully stopped with my foot on the brake. As soon as the light turns green and I lift my foot off the brake it goes away. It's at the dealer now and they can't duplicate the noise. Anyone have any ideas? I have to pick it up in the morning and the service guy is going to go with me for a ride to see if I hear it.

aldan93 · June 2003

Great you renewed ONSTAR!!! If you buy a 30k truck and complain about the 300 charge? its like the people the gamble away $300 bucks at a casino, and complain about the price of milk! LOL, talk is very cheap.

2k_impala_ls · June 2003

Does anyone know the cut off date. Mine was built 06-02. It had alot of the fixes from the factory like the rear gasket done. Mine is almost a 2003 it was made so late in the year.

2002slt · June 2003

Wow! I'm glad I bought an Envoy. They must be more different than they appear.

Seriously, this is a great place for people to vent, and this is a free country. People without problems, the other 99.5%, don't usually feel the need to write about how great their triplet is. Here I go, though. I've had my Envoy since 2/02, build date 1/02. The only problem I've had is that the wiper motor went out and had to be replaced. Otherwise, it's been flawless. Almost 17,000 miles on it and no rattles, except when the Bose is cranked up. It's the smoothest, quietest riding SUV I've ever been in that's under $40K. If it were totaled in a wreck, I'd by another one in a heart beat.

I feel sorry for you .5% that weren't as lucky. I hope you have better luck with your next non GM vehicle. Just remember that every manufacture makes lemons.

tblazed · June 2003

What I read said 2002 models produced during the 2001 calander year get the warranty extension.

tblazed · June 2003

I found a couple of rattles within the first few days I owned my TB - one was the heat shield between the cat converter and transmission, and another was an electrical connector which connects to the post-cat Oxygen sensor that was touching against the bottom floor hump area and rattled only while I was stopped in gear. I bent out the shield away from the trans where it was lightly touching, and tied back the cable-connector with a cable tie to kill those two rattles. You can crawl underneath with a rubber mallet and lightly tap around on things to find shield rattles etc. Or just take it back to the dealer umpteen times and let them try to fix it if you are not inclined to do it yourself. Good luck!

envoy_xl_in_pa · June 2003

I had my wife's Envoy XL into the dealer recently for a few things, and while it was there, I had them reprogram the computers with the latest updates. I complained about poor acceleration, and really lousy gas mileage (11 city, 16 highway). After the upgrades, it is like a new truck. I took the identical 100 mile highway trip before and after the upgrade, and the mileage was 17.3 prior to the upgrade, and it was 20.1 after (both were DIC readings, reset at the beginning of each trip). I let the cruise control drive the truck both times, to try to be as scientific as possible. The acceleration is also better, and the shift points are smoother. All in all, seems like a new truck.

ees1996 · June 2003

Well after TWO weeks at the dealer I finally got the parts. I went to see my truck and it was GUTTED. No engine no transmission. They said that I cracked TWO main bolts and I needed new crankshaft and a new piston. Then they said that I could not get any warranty outside of the one year 12000 mile engine warranty. I feel I am getting the short end. On top of the fact that all this business about the sleeves I feel like I am getting duped. Should I get a new Engine now? They said at the dealer that they would "use whatever out of the engine that was not worn out." How are you gonna rebuild a engine and recycle the parts. I need some insight here. My engine was built 6/01 I will check the mail today to see if I got the letter. Thanks fellow GM cronies.

tblazed · June 2003

ees1996 did they happen to mention that perhaps the main bolts broke because a piston ceased in the bore from a failed sleeve while you were going down the road? Did yours die or start making a lot of noise or? They will likely start with a replacement engine and carry over most of the external parts in any case. I would certainly hope they don't try and fix a failure like that. If it was built 6-01 and you are the original owner you should get your letter any ol' day. How many miles on yours when it bit the dust "like a ROCK" .?

Let'see.... NONVOY ... BRAVEGA ??

ees1996 · June 2003

I have 35+K on my truck. Bought it brand new less than 2 years ago. had 16 miles on it Glad it happened before the 36 k mark They tried to say that since the cluster reprogram that I went over my warranty. that is another subject. They said nothing bout the failed sleeve. The car started with a slight ticking that would increase as the engine heats up. Thought I needed a oil change. stopped for a while. then it came back louder sort of like the piston slap sound from the ol V-8s . It got louder and louder. then performance dropped one day and within the next half mile it started sounding like a hammer pounding on a old stanless steel hubcap then a clunk. It cut off. Thought the engine locked up but I started it back up and then got off of the freeway to a office complex and then called 800 chev usa. Scared me to death. Had no other problems up until the engine fiasco. This is my FIRST new purchase out of college and GM needs to work with the new folks if they want to "TURN IT AROUND". I am entitled to the new warranty right? :`( I know Hyundais that lasted longer than that.

tblazed · June 2003

ees1996 .. does this sound familiar?

"Some customers...with 4.2L (LL8) L6 engine produced during the 2001 calendar year may experience cracking of an engine cylinder bore liner, resulting in engine noise, poor performance, and/or stalls with no engine re-start."

tblazed · June 2003

" I am entitled to the new warranty right?" ficuss should relate his experiences here. I remember I read about his engine failing and getting a replacement before I bought mine in Jan '02 (thought I'd waited long enough for the initial bugs to be worked out) when I was still in the checking it out phase, and I remember reading recently he got The Letter.

tblazed · June 2003

Marcus, email me at address in my user profile I will send you something that might help.

rad225 · June 2003

Just got back from the local Chevy dealer, he says the scraping/rubbing sound (sounds like a muted snare drum beat)from my dash is the "tachometer motor". It makes this sound when the transmission shifts up or I shut the engine off. When I watch the tach, I can heard the sound from about 2500 rpm down to idle.

The dealer says this sound is "normal for Trailblazers" it took 28K miles to show up. Does anyone else have this sound? If you turn up the radio past one-third volume you will not hear it.

First real problem that I have had. It is a great SUV.

Thanks, Rick

ficuss · June 2003

ees1996, go to my post #2617 on oct. 14, 2001. The noises you describe are very close to what I described back then. My engine crapped out then and GM did replace the entire engine with a new engine off of the assembly line. Following your time, noise line, it sure sounds like a sleeve broke than the rest happened. Even a bottom 50% of the class lawyer could win that one.

Good luck

To those who think some of us are whiners, let me say this. I have owned cars for 37 years and have never had a car with so many major and minor problems. To the person who said the only thing replaced on his/her Envoy was the wiper motor, and your point is? I have never had a wiper motor replaced on any car since I was 16. My TB has had one replaced too. Could it be be because the engineers designed it poorly? Could it be because the wipers come on if your windshield is covered with ice in the winter and the wipers were left in the intermittent position from the night before? Could it be because the wiper motor is not sealed from water and leaks and shorts out the electronics? Why is it that soo many things need re programming in these triplets? Could GM not program it right the first time? Is GM supposed to be given a mulligan for being new at this game? How many other cars have you had where the entire instrument cluster goes out at once? And lets hope your Envoy isn't one of the cars that flames out at 70 mph.
The list goes on and on.

Chevy trucks, what a crock
Frank

mmcgee1 · June 2003

I wired my underhood light for the 03 Envoy directly into the underhood fuse center,using a fuse tap into an always hot fuse. Not quite like factory but it works and was easy. Glove box addition doesn't appear as easy however. Anyone know will the 02 glove box light work for the 03? Part number anyone?

twinrotts · June 2003

I'm with you Chris... It is getting quite old listening to the underlying sediment of unhappiness when it really is not my estimation at least of the average triplets owners experience.
What do you think Host how about we create a new topic for complaints?? I have seen threads that are focused on specific topics but forbid the inclusion of a particular issue even though topic related. This way those that need to vent have a place to go while the rest of us can continue to have a place to share without having to be exposed to the negative. Kind of like a no smoking section for triplet owners.
Ficuss - I can appreciate your frustration with some of the quirks with your truck and the fact that re programming has been necessary for the truck to operate in an improved way.
This is not unusual for complex equipment running by digital controllers. Find me a modern industrial facility equipped with software dependant operating systems that does not employ a host of software experts to keep these running to expected specification.
It is simply extraordinarily complicated to get software to operate as desired under continuously variable situations upon a first attempt. The fact that Chevy takes the time to continue to upgrade and improve is in my mind a testimony to their responsible approach to serving their customers

2002slt · June 2003

I never meant to imply that there were "whiners" on this board. Sorry if anybody took it that way. I've owned cars for 25 years and this is by far the least troublesome of them all. Maybe I've been cursed in the past, so my threshold of quality may be lower than some. But, I don't think that a wiper motor going out after 15 months is really that significant of an issue. I've had a car that needed a repaint within the first month of ownership. I've had T-Tops leak from day one that were never fixed. I had an SUV that needed front brake rotors replaced after every 12,000 miles. At least the dealer gave me lifetime replacement for free. The list goes on and on.
Like I said, this is a great place to vent. It's not a cheerleading forum, so if you're browsing here and get the impression that the majority of triplet owners are unhappy, guess again.

gam2 · June 2003

Sorry, this board will dry up if only happy comments are allowed. I think people with problems
look for a message board like this to see what their options are, especially considering some GM service facilities.

My Bravada, which GM traded me for a new Envoy, was 5 times more troublesome than any vehicle I have ever owned. I am keeping my fingers crossed on the Envoy. I hope someone, anyone, from GM watches this site and relays info to their Engineers. Unfortunately, I think GM deserves what it gets in this case. I think people have a right to be upset after shelling out $30-40K for their vehicles.

Maybe there should be a happy Triplets forum instead.

GAM

ficuss · June 2003

I understand your frustration with having to read my rants. I don't mean to take much of your time. But, I don't think we as consumers should have to endure this type of BETA TESTING of the GM software. It should have been field tested and proven before being thrust on the consumer. This isn't Windows 95. A software crash at 70 mph can KILL you. You may be willing to take that chance, but I would rather not. I have worked in a software environment for quite a few years, and you are correct in that it isn't always right the first time, and fixes usually bring with them other problems. The only difference between my office computer and my car is that my life doesn't ride on my office computer not crashing. Would you fly in a new GM 747?

Frank

zueslewis · June 2003

one thing that most don't realize is that through positive experiences and corrected problems, it's easy to help someone fix a current problem.

When you have vehicles that are alike as these, it's easy to say "my truck did the same thing, the dealer installed a ____ to fix it".

Now, true, whining gets old. Try my job for a day or two - all I hear is complaints - some serious, most are not. We as Americans are very spoiled and tend to take many things for granted, complaining over the smallest stuff. It DOES get old hearing continual complaints, but so many in our country see complaining as a past-time. What can change that?

You can address the whiners as such and ask them not to bring you down. As much as people may like their rigs, it's JUST A TRUCK, and there's nothing about it that can't be repaired.

To the whiners: Lighten up. Kick back. Enjoy life. It took me having a son with radical cancer to appreciate how stupid it was for me to complain over the small crap.

Hug your kids. Buy them a happy meal and new sneakers. Then take them on a weekend outing in your GM triplet.

2002slt · June 2003

It's one thing to come here and discuss your vehicle problems. It's quite another to come here with the sole purpose of bashing the triplets.
Can't we all just get along?

laz4790 · June 2003

can anyone imagine what this thing will cost you when your warranty no longer covers you bumper to bumper. I'm sorry, I just have to vent some of this out for such a poor product GM came up with.
I've had my frailblazer two years now. I have one
more year left.

tblazed · June 2003

There are 33 other topics about triplets already, but all the fun is here! I like having everything right here especially when mudguards and vent visor talk gets slow. Obviously there are some problems.. and every auto maker dealer regardless of brand has a parts and service department full of employees.

I am very satisfied with my Trailblazer as I have said all along and am glad GM did what they did to reassure us owners of '01 built triplets they will stand behind the engine block ( the last thing that should ever fail under normal use) .

It's just too bad they have done so much decontenting, making it much less desirable to trade up to a newer TB in the future that would otherwise be more refined and debugged. I've counted 7 things on my '02 LS that either you can't get on the '03 LS or you can't get at all on any model.

tblazed · June 2003

A friend had the same problem you describe. They sent his instrument cluster out to get it fixed and so far he says it is quiet now. The noise is not "normal for Trailblazers" and was fixed.

scottc454 · June 2003

ficuss, I don't consider you a whiner. I know pain when I see it, and there is true pain in your posts. Admit it, you love GM and that's what's killing you. It must be like a bad relationship that you just can't get out of. You ain't fooling anybody.

On a more serious note, I fall into a middle of the road category. My Trailblazer's been in the shop a few times, but as time goes by it's not so bad.

I'm not worried about having that many problems in the future. If you look at the stats, most glitches get exposed prettly quickly, then it's not until way later that you have problems due to things like alternators and fuel pumps wearing out.

It really didn't surprise me that there were a few gliches, being a first year model. I'm not cutting off GM in the future, but I think I'll pass on first year vehicles.

scottc454 · June 2003

Maybe they're decontenting the triplets to make them more reliable. KISS method - keep it simple stupid.

I hate the "ICE POSSIBLE" message. I hope they did away with that. I understand the intent. If you've been driving 8 hours across the middle of nowhere and it's been getting colder, you might be unaware of the current conditions. However, much more often is the case where it's snowing outside, you scrape ice off the windshield, get in and a couple miles down the road it tells you that ice is possible. No #$%^@#$!

scottc454 · June 2003

If it's OK to whine about the triplets then it must be OK to whine about people that whine about triplets.

However, you folks that whine about people that whine about triplets better be careful cuz I tell you what, if you whine too much about people that whine about triplets, they're gonna start whining about YOU whining about them whining about triplets and the cycle will never end.

http://proszkow.org/drewmike/arnoldwhining.wav

stever · June 2003

We have lots of them for other models. I'd recommend adding a "Problems and Solutions" topic over here:

Chevrolet Trailblazer Owners

Steve, Host

kenym · June 2003

I will say one thing about this board...You people are the most long winded on Edmunds. If it can be said in 50 words or less this board takes 500 to 1000 words to say it. However after saying that let me say I read it every day and wouldn't miss it for the world.......But I am glad I didn't buy one of the Triplets

~Ken

tblazed · June 2003

Just talked to my friend that had his noisy tach fixed. He said it is much less noisy now can't hear it in normal driving like before, but you can still hear it slightly at startup with everything else turned off (radio. a/c blower) . I do notice a slight noise when I 1st start my TB and the tach with all the other gages initiate at power on. I think that noise is normal.

ees1996 · June 2003

I am a GM fan but the way that this issue is handled will really determine how I look at another GM vehicle. My parents had a bad ford experience (3 cars 6 engines\transmissions) and in keeping it domestic I gave the general a try. I commend GM by at least biting the bullet and admitting that there is a problem. I like the truck I have sold many peers on the purchase of a triplet.

I did get the letter yesterday. Talked to GM. They were not sure if the problem was the piston sleeve. Im sure that it is. But the dealer still says it is a Main Bolt breaking. They ordered parts but I have not heard of a new engine. Im going up to the dealer today with the letter in tow. Ill give the report later.

momstruck1 · June 2003

I must comment on the recent post about complaining . I am one who complains about my "frailblazer" because others on this board are having problems or know answers to problems that I am having. I do have some good things to say but usually it is a question on a problem. I can see why people are complaining spending 30+ thousand dollars on a truck that spends a lot of time in the dealership is really annoying because weather it is in your driveway or in the shop you have to pay the BILL!!! I lease it because I wanted a reliable car not to have it in the shop more then 10 times in one year. MY truck will be one on Sunday 6/22 and I am hopeful that it will get better in the next two years but am very doubtful. I wanted to say let people speak as they will and if you don't want to read it continue on to the next post.

ficuss · June 2003

I will stop complaining about the troubles of the triplets. Lets take this conversation the other direction. Start naming the major and minor triplet mechanical/ elecrtical systems and components which have been problem free, from the front bumper to the tail lights.

Frank

tblazed · June 2003

"Maybe they're decontenting the triplets to make them more reliable."

Yup, ya never know when those "high-tech" articulating headrests, underhood and glovebox lights, map pocket on the back of the drivers seat, rear console a/c and body color side molding on the LS, etc will give you technical problems, not to mention the previously STANDARD in '02 side air bags. (Anyone see the latest small SUV side impact tests on the news the other day? I think I kinda like having the SABs now)

Bottom line, the most likely reason is simply cost cutting. And with that came an increase in the base price. Have to pay for the incentives and GM retirees pensions somehow..

scottc454 · June 2003

That's not what I meant. By getting rid of all the extra stuff and simplifying the manufacturing process, they can create a more reliable product. By spending less time wiring up dubious gadgets and lights, they can concentrate on other things like being careful not to run wiring harnesses where they can get damaged by steering linkage, etc.

Obviously, this doesn't apply to every little thing. It doesn't sound like it would help that much but it also doesn't sound like it would save that much money either. Anyway, it probably is just cost cutting. I was merely coming up with another possible explanation.

kram18 · June 2003

Anyone have any hints on how to wire in a set of hella black magic fog lights on a trailblazer LS so they go on and off with the automatic headlights? i.e. off when the DRL's are on but on when the headlights automaticaly come on? Not sure if this is possible but I figure this is the place to ask.

elevatorguy · June 2003

TBlazed,
My feelings are that the things that you mentioned that were standard equipment on the 02 LS models (rear air, side airbags) and are not on the 03 models were given to the initial year as a "perk" to get people to buy a brand new vehicle. You took a big risk buying and you were rewarded. There is, however, absolutely no excuse for eliminating the under hood light and glove box light. To save a few bucks here and there is one thing, but eliminating these necessities on a 30K+ truck is just plan rediculous.

Just my opinion,
Todd

tblazed · June 2003

I figured the original content of these was based on sales at pre-9/11 market conditions. After 9/11 when GM came out with the Keep America Rolling campaign, that was the beginning of what has been a very expensive and difficult thing to end. They tried to end big factory incentives in May '02 and sales fell through the floor. Now they have to make up for the losses somehow to try and meet projected profits they originally planned into earnings estimates etc. So GM cuts $50-$100 in manufacturing costs from every car and truck across the board. Cost cutting at every level was a stated goal at the shareholders meeting I went to last year. Multiplied by 6 or 8 million vehicles that ain't pocket change.

Now if somebody in the aftermarket industry wants a captive market just itching to spend money, come up with a retrofit custom foglight kit for the LS Trailblazers that interfaces with the BCM for full automatic control.

iexplore2000 · June 2003

I say go ahead and create a "Accolades, Rants and Raves" forum for the triplets and leave this one in tact. Something tells me that the latter forum will continue to dominate while the "I love my Triplet" forum quickly dies or gets the once over from curious minds and those not willing to post (or feel the need to post) just how HAPPY they are with their triplet.

Honestly, giving the whining, etc. THIS forum has been the MOST useful for getting problems, issues and concerns addressed. Heck.. If my vehicle was trouble free then I would probably NEVER post here either.. I mean.. what for? Why waste your time when your vehicle is a gem?

Even though I went through all the trouble with my 02 Envoy, after 8 months of selling my 02, I decided to retry my luck with an 03! So far so good @ 1500K on the odometer! Do some research and you will quickly find out that the competition is still far behind when comparing the features that you can get on a TRIPLET. Heck.. even the $60K Lincoln Navigator that I was 95% sold on purchasing did not even have as many features as the triplets!

I agree that we shouldn't use this forum to BASH the triplets; and I ESPECIALLY hate it when NON-TRIPLET owners peek their heads in here to add their worthless two cent comments on "Gee.. after reading this, I am soo glad that I didn't get a triplet!" GROW UP.. Why even bother wasting your time typing a message, go join the other forum of the vehicle you DID buy!

Have a good weekend everyone!

IExplore2000

drcsf · June 2003

I have put 3,000 miles on the 2002 Envoy SLT I bought used a couple of months ago. I have continued to read every post here, good and bad.

My only complaints are: The power mirrors rarely return to their exact position, which I will address with my dealer. The leather seat cushion presses on the lighter cover and the center console, making a mark when folded down; I am now keeping a hand towel in the car as a buffer. But my biggest complaint is my wife has basically taken over the use of the truck, as she absolutely LOVES driving it.

I read all the complaints here and I do feel these boards provide a good resource for those with problems. But I think all manufacturers have issues with their products. My Toyota Camry is equipped with their V6 engine, an engine used in millions of Avalons, Camry's, Highlanders, ES and RX 300's. This engine has a major problem of turning perfect motor oil into sludge and completely failing, sometimes in less than 20,000 miles. Toyota denied the issue for years, then blamed it on poor maintenance and then finally admitted a problem exists. I have a letter in my files stating Toyota will pay any for engine failure due to sludge or gelling of motor oil. Anyone unfamiliar with this issue just search the web; there are entire anti-Toyota sites devoted to this. My neighbor's Volkswagon Passat had a major iginition coil recall, as did most other Volkswagons and Audis. And my other neighbor bought a early Mercedes M Class which was much, much worse than most triplets. And there are probably similar stories for most manufacturers.

Ours are really very nice vehicles, but obviously not perfect. So keep the discussion on problems coming as it is helpful, but don't think for a minute GM or these triplets have the monopoly on complaints.

Craig

zueslewis · June 2003

power mirror problems, like described above.

The dealerships do several things: reprogram the mirror control module; replace the control module; or replace the Body Control Module (BCM).

ross1962 · June 2003

Well, it depends on what he means by normal! It does happen in a lot of Trailblazers, but that doesn't make it "normal". I have it too and have asked to have it fixed. They told me they started up 5 brand new Trailblazers and heard the same thing. I know it's benign. It's not hurting anything, but I still want it fixed. So, I'll wait until the TSB comes out and then take it in. No big hurry - I just crank up the new Allman Brothers CD! (Which is really good BTW!)

elevatorguy · June 2003

Looking under the hood of my 03 TrailBlazer LT I noticed something I had not noticed before. There is a red wire with an end crimped onto it (definitly looks factory because it doesn't have any insulation on the crimp) that is not attached to anything. Seems like it is the power wire for something. It is in the loom that is headed to the fuse box under the hood. Is this some sort of a diagnostic wire that only has to be hooked up when troubleshooting or is it supposed to be connected? Does anybody else have this? I had a remote start installed and am wondering if something had to be disconnected to make it work. By the way, the truck is an LT with no options.

Thanks,
Todd

Buick Rainier, Chevy TrailBlazer, GMC Envoy

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