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Buick Rainier, Chevy TrailBlazer, GMC Envoy



  • "Another quality product from our boys at Delphi, go UAW!!!!"
    Well, if you think we're getting junk now, wait until they're made in China by 15 year olds!
  • sildogsildog Posts: 50
    I don't understand why you folks are worried about a few squeaks!

    My entire door panels are so darn loose that those stupid little bezels that snap in around the interier door opener handle randomly fly off! Took it back for the 35,999 mile "last hurrah" warranty work (the list was looooong!) Instead or reattaching the interior panels with new push in do-hickies (they are worn out because the dealer has had them off 3 times each to fix other in door stuff), they just ordered new bezels and snapped them on! Now I have new bezels that pop off at random!

    And whoever it was that say they get 21mpg going 75 on the highway! Are you sure you haven't mistaken a Chevette for an SUV? I get 17 in a mix of town and highway. Jumps to 20 on all highway trips at about 70mph through the "rolling hills" if Indiana.
  • iexplore2000iexplore2000 Posts: 237
    I also know the Detroit Metro area very well because I grew up there and understand the very unpredictable weather that plagues the state.

    Snaab.. If you notice, FIRST.. it is virtually next to impossible to find 2wd anything in the state of Michigan. In the town that I grew up, a local dealer had a 2wd Trail Blazer EXT that has been sitting in their showrooms for a little over 6 months now. I asked the dealer why that unit hasn't sold and he mentioned "because someone screwed up on the ordering and viola.. a 2wd model arrived! We cannot give it away."

    Given that you may live in a Detroit Metro suburb as opposed to "Detroit," there is absolutely NO WAY that I would consider purchasing a 2wd Envoy. I know the roads, I know how,when and at what frequency they will plow the roads and most importantly... RESALE VALUE..

    If you are planning on keeping the unit and driving it until the wheels fall off, then you may not have to worry about resale. But.. I honestly think that if you are going to continue living in the midwest, the extra cash for the 4wd unit will give you a higher level of assurance. I braved Michigan's winter this year and having rid myself of my 2002 Envoy last November, I absolutely regretted not having an SUV this season. I had to get around using my 02 Impala LS with traction control. VERY FRUSTRATING since I had been used to an SUV for quite some time. Now that I have the 2003 Envoy SLT XL in my possession, I cannot wait until winter arrives <SMILE>.

    In my opinion, 2wd is fine out WEST.. at least there it makes a little bit more sense to me. As my best friend says, "In Michigan.. everyone's PRIMARY car is an SUV, then they have another car tucked away in their garage." Also, when driving my SUV on wet pavement in 2wd (yes I have limited slip), sometimes getting away from stop-lights can be a chore. In some cases, just getting over that white-strip at the light causes the tires to spin. Kind of reminds me of driving a very traditional RWD vehicle of the 70's and 80's. In order to conquer this at times, I will engage the transaxle in A4WD to assist with maneuvering on wet/rainy days. Although It doesn't slip enough to engage the 4wd system, the A4WD does engagage the front axles in a passive manner, therefore the steering is tighter and you will not slip when accelerating. Unfortunatly, in these particular cases, I do miss the AWD systems that were on my previous vehicles (i.e. 1999 Jeep Grand Cherokee Limited) but oh well.

    Truthfully, I do not think that you will notice a big difference in fuel economy with the 2wd vs. 4wd (unless you are using 4wd all the time). Check it out, weight the options and IF you are elidgeable for GM discount, use that extra cash savings to your advantage and purchase the 4wd model.. Heck.. you may even be able to step up to an SLT (GM PEP Vehicle) cheaper than you can buy a SLE off the lot with rebates! For example, my aunt just purchased her 2003 TB LT EXT through the pep program. Vehicle stickered for $40K new, she got it for $29K BEFORE REBATES! Yeah.. she had over 6K on the odometer when it arrived, but what a deal! After I purchased my 03, I found out from my father's friend that the PEP program can be extended to siblings NOW! This is good because prior to this change, a factory official vehicle (PEP Vehicle) could only be title in the GM employees (or spouses) name. I am also considering a second smaller vehicle myself and now knowing this, I am probably going to purchase a PEP vehicle myself to reap the savings!

    Good Luck!

  • medolarkmedolark Posts: 93
    You wrote:

    "And whoever it was that say they get 21mpg going 75 on the highway! Are you sure you haven't mistaken a Chevette for an SUV? I get 17 in a mix of town and highway. Jumps to 20 on all highway trips at about 70mph through the "rolling hills" if Indiana."

    Answer: YUP. I only got 19.6 last year on essentially the same trip. But, last year I started out with only about 5K on the odometer. this year I started with about 15K. I have 3.73 rear axle and have never had any pcm updates.
  • mcali17mcali17 Posts: 22
    My father is a Buick-GMC Truck Dealer. As soon as he gets his first Rainer in, I will shoot down to the dealership for a test drive and let you all know how it is. He is thinking about driving one as his demo for the winter.
  • gam2gam2 Posts: 316
    EGADS!!! How did we survive without 4WD in the past? I mean really, HOW DID WE SURVIVE? I used 4WD maybe 4 times last winter here in Wisconsin. My friend made it thru the winter just fine with his 2WD (non-posi) pick up with bad tires. 30 years ago, hardly anyone had 4WD and we made it thru the winters on bias ply tires. Sure 4WD will get you going faster, but traffic will only slow
    you down. It doesn't help you stop or steer any better either. It uses more fuel, and is more expensive to maintain.

    My Envoy handles just fine in the rain. I've never had any wheelspin, slipping, sliding, etc. Of course if you drive like an idiot, flooring it at every stopsign and on every curve..................and yes, I'm usually ahead of the pack when the light turns green.

    I got 4WD because I do go off-road. I do pull a boat out of a muddy river. I will use it in the U.P of Michigan. For local/city driving, it's nice, but hardly a neccessity. Of course. that's why we live in the good 'ole USA, we can choose what we want to drive!

  • cparise1cparise1 Posts: 109
    One of the best features of my Envoy is the Bose stereo system. Use it to your advantage!

    The standard radio is a little pip-squeak of a thing, probably good for AM listening only.

    I have a few low speed suspension squeaks that remind me I'm in a +5,000 Lb. vehicle, but even blasting the Bose has not rattled anything loose, nor has 22K miles of daily driving.

  • For you guys without traction control, did you do anything about the hiddeous Trailblazer plastic mold where the switch goes (right under the rear wiper controls)?

    I got a Delphi Skyfi XM Radio and had it mounted on that thing. Works perfectly. It's in the best possible spot and covers that ugly scene. Just looked so cheap.

    Before I got the XM I was tempted to pop it out, fill it with putty, sand it down, and paint it to match the dash. It just screamed cheap. Not what I wanted in the LTZ.

    Anyone else really turned off by that cover?
  • biggie4852biggie4852 Posts: 37
    Need help on how to change the filter. Dealer quote me $180 I just can't pay that for a filter replacement.
    Nearing 39000 miles no other problems. But my tires are down to 5 on the tire tread gage depth. I am thinking of replacing them any advice, on what brand.
    Last has chevy put out a a computer upgrade for the PCM? I was reading a post on a site where this guys claim his mileage improved a little after this upgrade?
  • kgbkahnkkgbkahnk Posts: 89
    We just got back from an extended weekend at the lake, about 270 miles each way. Had the TB loaded to the absolute TOP, including a 54 quart cooler completely full of cans and ice (read: heavy), plus a mountain of other crap. Ran pretty hard going down, and got 19.9 mpg. Coming home, however, was running pretty easy, just 5 mph over the limit the whole way, so was running anywhere from 65 to 75 for 95% of the drive. Averaged 23.1 mpg, calculated by hand and via the DIC. I'm so pleased I can barely stand it. I've never been *too* upset by the mileage, considering it's an SUV and nearly 5000lbs to boot, but I'm just flat happy averaging over 23 mpg. (Sure wish it had the bigger gas tank, however)

    BTW: the external temp for the trip home started out at 88 degrees, and read exactly 100 degrees when I pulled into the driveway. Needless to say the A/C was running full bore the whole way, too.

    Still only getting between 17 & 18 around town, however.
  • n7donn7don Posts: 188
    I haven't looked in all the 'nooks and crannies' of our '03 Envoy but I didn't think it had a cabin air filter. I do know they are rather pricy. I bought one (actually set of two) for our Montana online at I looked on acdelco's site for a Trailblazer filter-cabin air and none were listed. Maybe some of the more seasoned posters can comment.
  • tblazedtblazed Posts: 945
    " Dealer quote me $180 I just can't pay that for a filter replacement."

     There is no "cabin air filter" in these to replace. Nothing in the GM service manual HVAC section, nothing in the owners manual concerning maintaining a cabin air filter. I think I would find a new dealer.
  • redline65redline65 Posts: 693
    That's news to me. I didn't think these vehicles had them either. Wow, wouldn't you be pissed if you paid $180 and found out you don't even have one!

    Anyways, my Intrigue has one and I do it myself. The part is only $20 from Mr. Goodwrench, and it only takes a few minutes to install. So if your vehicle has one I would suggest trying to do it yourself. Of course you could always call the parts department and ask how much the cabin air filter is - if it doesn't exist you'll know for sure...
  • tblazedtblazed Posts: 945
    "The standard radio is a little pip-squeak of a thing, probably good for AM listening only."

    I disagree. I think mine (CD-Cassette unit) sounds pretty good if I bypass the preset tone settings, set the Treble to Max and set the Bass to the mid-point. The AM is the weak point. No high freq response at all, sounds like all the highs from about 3kHz up are completely filtered or cut out. Sure do miss the wide-band hi-fi AM-Stereo radio quality my old '88 S-10 has... and it even produces hi-fi AM on monaural stations.
  • sildogsildog Posts: 50
    Oh, and I forgot to mention that my 20mpg at 70 on the highway is in a TWO WHEEL DRIVE! And I have 40K miles, so I think it is well broken in! It is also only an LS, so I have to calculate it the old fashioned way! I hear about these "reprograms". Does that help the mileage?

    Regarding 4wd, I agree with gam2. I lived in Chicago for years and never had 4wd. Had Buick 225's, 2wd pickups and even a Mustang GT. We certainly had some adventures on the bad days, but those bad days didn't happen enough to make the extra $$ worth it. I live in the 'Natti now and they had to search all over Ohio to find me a 2wd TB. I only wish I could have found some dealer ready to "give one away"!!!
  • scottc454scottc454 Posts: 356
    I agree that you can live without 4WD in snowy places but I must point out that you're comparing apples and oranges when you compare Chicago to Michigan.

    Chicago is west of Lake Michigan. Michigan is east of it. That makes a big difference in snowfall. I'd get the 4WD for sure. If you can afford a brand new vehicle, you can afford the extra money for 4WD. It's an SUV - it's supposed to be 4WD. It's not going to feel good when you're struggling through snow covered roads with your brand new 2WD SUV.

    I'm not saying it's absolutely necessary. It's just that it makes too much sense to get 4WD.
  • I have a 02 TB EXT and was averaging 13.9 in city/mixed driving over 1000+ miles figured by DIC and manually. after the PCM update and K&N filter charger I'm still only getting 16.2 and on a 200 mile trip loaded, I only averaged 18... Does anyone have any suggestions or experience with the EXT versions and thier mileage? BTW I live in Jersey and the biggest hills I contend with on a regular basis are the Bridges to PA.
  • Incredible mileage. What rear end do you have? Do you have any mods? What octane gas do you use? 2 or 4WD?

  • lurker01lurker01 Posts: 103
    I have my Envoy in for some service at 30k. Having the tires rotated, fuel filter replaced and oil change.
    They are recommending replacing transmission fluid and front and read diff fluid. These are the original fluid right now.
    Is this a good idea or a service dept. looking to make some $$??
  • nuyorkahnuyorkah Posts: 100
    There is definetly no cabin air filter in a triplet.
    Cabin filters for other vehicles vary in price because some contain carbon.
  • gam2gam2 Posts: 316
    kmig: You got a 6 or a V-8 in your EXT? Don't expect miracles if you have the V-8.

    Scott: You can't compare Chicago with western Michigan, but it does compare with Detroit. We get our share of 12-14" snowfalls here on the south side of 'da lake. No doubt 4WD makes things easier, but I've never got stuck on the roads in 25+ years of driving (mostly 2WD).
  • twinrottstwinrotts Posts: 161
    I am hooking up the circuit that powers the electrical accessory connection to my camper so that I can run my 12V refridge while driving.
    It is an 8 amp draw approx 95watts.
    How long can I keep this plugged in with the engine not running before draining down my battery?
    I am thinking in terms of stopping for a meal for an hour. Would I need to disconnect the plug or does the power down feature in my truck give me adeguate protection??
  • tblazedtblazed Posts: 945
    You should be fine with an 8 Amp draw for an hour if the battery is charged. The concern here is the "Reserve Capacity" of the battery. This will vary with battery age, state of charge and temperature. Reserve Capacity is the number of minutes a fully charged battery at 80 degrees F (26.7 degrees C) can be discharged at 25 Amps until the voltage falls below 10.5 Volts where the vehicle won't start usually something like 80 or 90 minutes. Drawing 1/3 of that power for an hour or so should leave you with more than enough power left to start the engine.
  • iexplore2000iexplore2000 Posts: 237
    Someone once told me, "Why would you spend $21,000 for a vehicle that has roll-up windows when you can add an extra $1K to get power everything? You are already spending $21K, so what does an extra $1K do to your payment.. not much, but the convenience makes your life easier!"

    Since then, I've always lived by that logic because it does make a lot of sense to me. I would surely hate or regret not having a feature just to save a few pennies. I laughed the other day because a good friend has a new vehicle in which he could have bought the NAVIGATIONAL system, but NOOOO.. It was an extra $800!! NOW.. he says, "Man.. I wish I would have got the NAVI system now? DO you think that I can trade it in for one with the NAVI?" My response, "Too LATE.. Gonna loose more by trading than just keeping!"

    Maybe it's just me being a spoiled brat, but that's just my logic. IF I cannot have top of the line of a certain model (with all bells and whistles) then I don't want it . :-)

    Guess that's why I don't drive MB, or BMW because they bring a whole new meaning to "top-of-the-line" with their pricing structures. Before the second Envoy, I looked closely at the M series SUV. Although I wanted the ML-55 model, I wasn't gonna spend the $60+K to get it, so I would have settled for the ML-430 which ran mid $40's. This is sad considering that it's essentially the same "looking" vehicle, but the pricing structure starts the vehicle in the mid $30's and quickly runs a tab up to almost $70K!

    Good thing the general doesn't pull this or else there would be a lot of triplets on the dealer's lots!

  • tidestertidester Posts: 10,059
    ...what does an extra $1K do to your payment

    It adds $24.41 to your payment at 8% apr over 4 years! :-)

    tidester, host
  • dshepherd3dshepherd3 Posts: 194
    How is everybody doing in the tire wear dept., my 2002 TB with 27k has about 5-6/32 left on the BFG Open Trails?
  • iexplore2000iexplore2000 Posts: 237
    Yeah.. $24.41 @ 8% interest over 4 years? Maybe that applies if you have if you have bad credit? At this point in time, 0% for 60 months makes that extra $1k very affordable! Actually, approximatly $16 to be exact? Cut out a few extra value meals a month or a frappuchino and that definitely takes care of the $16! Bring on the bells and whistles! <SMILE>

  • iexplore2000iexplore2000 Posts: 237
    The BF Goodrich tires are awesome, and trust me.. with only 27K on the odometer, you have plenty of life left!

    I just sold my aunts 02 Trail Blazer LTZ and it had ~49K on the odometer and the BF's were still looking and performing fairly well.

    Actually, I think that I may eventually replace my Michelen (sp?) Cross Terrains with a set of BF Good Rich tires. The BF Open Trails are a very flat tire with a stiff sidewall. That makes the handling a little better in my opinion. Much more responsive, but maybe not as soft/cushiony as the Cross Terrains. I do think that if you opt'd for the Envoy with skid plates, you could get the BF tires? If I do purchase a set, more than likely they will not have the white lettering in order to keep the original look of the Envoy's that you see on the road today.

    Good Luck!

  • tidestertidester Posts: 10,059
    Yeah.. $24.41 @ 8% interest over 4 years?

    Well, you DID ask! ;-)

    Seriously, I'd go for it!

    tidester, host
  • kpp14kpp14 Posts: 62
    2002 blk Envoy slt w 49,000 km

    I have had no major complaints about my Envoy but I got to say it was interesting last night when my wipers failed in the rain. Good thing I wasn't at hiway speeds. This will be the third time this has happened! The first two motors (a year ago) where full of water. Sometimes the motor will fail gradually, operating by itself (at least you get a little warning)

    tblazed, you mention in you post #11519

    The used one I took apart was "caulked" all around the cover with a black tar substance. That's not where the water gets in. It gets in thru the electrical connector. You can see the motor and gear [non-permissible content removed]'y and the connector thru the cowl vent openings right there, exposed to the elements!

    Should I drill a hole in the bottom of the new one to make it "self" draining as well as try to seal the opening in the top??
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