Buick Rainier, Chevy TrailBlazer, GMC Envoy

quickdtoo · July 2003

The pump takes care of the fluid in the pan but doesn't address the filter change requirement or the fluid remaining in the torque converter.

rj123456 · July 2003

Do I have a blown fuse or is it true that the cabin light switch (on the dash to the left of the steering wheel) in my 2002 Envoy XL is just about the only thing that is not lit up? It's extremely strange that a switch one might want to use when its dark - to turn on the cabin lights - is not illuminated.

luvmytralblazr · July 2003

Thanks for addressing my message. However, I was told yesterday that there is a filter to the cabin on my 2002 Trailblazer EXT (maybe it being an EXT makes the difference?). The dealer said he would have to order it and it would cost $100 (plus labor) to replace it. I don't think I'll do that at this time.

When I picked up the truck, I was so angry that they scratched the heck out of the plastic (cowl) underneath the windshield wipers that I forgot to ask if they fixed the seat belt. I'll have to call today to see if it was done. By the way, the are ordering a whole new plastic piece for the truck. I hope they don't mess up anything else putting it on!

I've decided to wait on the Rotors. They said I have 1/2 brake pad left and I really didn't need to do anything at this time.

mdavis69 · July 2003

Ask and ye shall recieve. Perhaps we should have bought a cheap Chevy Tracker instead of our Envoy

Better yet, how about the new Rainier - go Buick!

"The latest quality-related survey from J.D. Power and Associates finds that many of the high-priced cars and trucks sold in America are more frequent visitors in the repair bays. The survey measured the percentage of service visits that involved repairs, not just maintenance. Power results as reported by USA Today indicate that about two-thirds of its luxury brands scored worse than the industry average of 35 percent. Land Rover stood out with 62 percent of visits being repair-related. Buick was the best brand ranked by the survey, with only 21 percent of service calls involving a repair. The survey polled 106,000 owners of three-year-old vehicles."

lurker01 · July 2003

So, it looks like doing a through job with the transmission fluid is not simple. Might let the experts handle that one.
Opinions are the front and rear diff don't need a change at this time.
How about the transfer case? Let that alone too or drain and refill? Easy or hard?

BTW: Got 19.5mpg on the DIC from first full tank after PCM reprogram. Was getting 17mpg DIC before under same driving conditions.
Calculated the mpg by hand and came up with 18.5mpg. In the past, the DIC was usually only high by 0.5mpg. Either way, I think the reprog gave me a 2-3mpg boost. (or it could have been the tire rotation, oil change or new fuel filter...hmmmm)

-John

ross1962_99 · July 2003

"They want to change the front and rear axle fluid for $180, replace the transmission fluid and filter for $110 and replace the transfer case fluid for $70."
I usually go by what the manual says, milage and environment-wise, as far as how often to change fluids. Dealerships and Quicky Lube shops tend to want you to change these a LOT more often! Some even give you an impressive looking computer printout of recommended service intervals for "your vehicle". I laughed when I saw that it was time to inspect the CV boots on my 2 wheel drive Blazer!

nuyorkah · July 2003

"Thanks for addressing my message. However, I was told yesterday that there is a filter to the cabin on my 2002 Trailblazer EXT (maybe it being an EXT makes the difference?). The dealer said he would have to order it and it would cost $100 (plus labor) to replace it. I don't think I'll do that at this time."

If you've got the time call your Dealers Parts Department and see if they have the cabin filter in stock. When they say they don't ask for the part number and post it here. I'd love to know what they're trying to sell you for $100.

nuyorkah · July 2003

Just to let you know the lights connect to the dome lamp wiring harness, if you do not have a Northface you will not have the connector to simply plug them in. You will have to find the
correct wires to tap into(tail lamp/park lamp harness).

I have not done this nor have I seen it done.

2002-2004 Triplets
Lamps come without sockets and bulbs
Short Wheelbase
L/S Lamp 15163401 List $73
R/S Lamp 15163402 List $73

Long Wheelbase
L/S Lamp 15170141 List $73
R/S Lamp 15170142 List $73

Sockets with Bulbs (AKA Harness)
Short and Long Wheelbase
Qty 2 15163404 List $61.10 each

dragonhead08 · July 2003

$61.00 for a scoket and bulb?! what are they thinking?

quickdtoo · July 2003

Part #15163404 is $34.83 @ http://www.gmpartsdirect.com
I suspect the rest of the parts are about half the list price, plus shipping. Be sure to check the shipping, sometimes it's way outa line.

Tim

iexplore2000 · July 2003

Hi Everyone,

I posted this here before and didn't get any replies, but I wanted to try again just in case!

Does anyone know if you can retrofit the 2002 Driver's side electro-chromatic dimming mirror (with turn-signal) on a 2003 model? GM removed the outside dimming mirror feature on the 2003 models and I would desperately like to re-add this feature. My 2002 had it and I love that particular feature.

For those of you who have the service manuals, does it show any possible illustrations (or give any information)that the same wiring harness used in the 2002's to connect this feature is still present in the 2003 models?

Any ideas or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

IExplore2000

momstruck1 · August 2003

The windsheild washer fluid is only working on one side. I am guessing that the line is clogged . It is going in on wed of next week and i will let you all know what it is. Also going on a long trip the following week after it is in the shop I want them to take an overall look at the truck before I take it too far from home . we are in NY and going to VA and SC for a 2 week trip. Is there anything I should have them really check for this long of a trip?? We have just had the works done to it in june (oil change , tire rotation etc) any help is useful thanks guys.

kgbkahnk · August 2003

Well, we now know part numbers and prices for the cabin lights components. If we only just had one brave soul to attempt this little modification and report back to us on the difficulty and success of the project.....

(I'm an admitted coward when it comes to projects of this nature.)

Any takers?

tidester · August 2003

I don't see any obvious reason why that couldn't be done - provided you can find the mirrors!

tidester, host

iexplore2000 · August 2003

Looking for simple "plug and play" if you know what I mean? Honestly, if the last model year wiring (2002) is still in tact on the 2003 models, then I should simply be able to buy the mirror and plug it in to work properly, electrochromatic feature and all.

However, on the other hand, if GM decontented that feature for the 2003 models, did they remove the old wiring harness for the 2002 models and installed a new (non-electrochromatic mirror wiring) wiring system for 2003? If that is the case, then I cannot simply plug in the mirror and have it work correctly. Does that make better sense?

I am hoping to gain insight from someone on this board who may have a service manual or just technical insight as to if last years wiring is still in tach. Additionally, I can remember someones post a year or so ago about installing the signaling mirror on a non SLT model Envoy. If I can recall correctly, they had to rewire "stuff" to make it work properly. In their case, I guess GM does not use the same wiring harness across the board. It looks as if SLT or LT/LTZ models came with the complete harness in 2002 and the base models did not.

-- Thanks!

IExplore2000

tidester · August 2003

Oh, I understand what you are asking. I just don't know the answers! I was hoping someone more technically competent would jump in here! Anyone?

tidester, host

tblazed · August 2003

Read GM is supposedly pulling out all the stops on content and features for the Rainier. Maybe all those decontented things will find their way to the Buick.

aldan93 · August 2003

Use a tank of 89 octane-93 It'll give it a little more OMPH through west virgina!

paulpro · August 2003

I added the dimming mirror to my 2002. The above description on how they operate and a little mechanical/electrical ability will allow a skilled owner to put his own mirror in. I found on my Envoy, the wiring harness was complete from the mirror to the door but the internal door harness did not have the necessary wires. I had to substitute my own.

You're only running 1 1/2 volts so it isn't a big deal. Mirrors are available on EBay. You need to have the dimming internal mirror to make it work.

There is not a "plug and play" answer to this. It takes vehicle modification but it can be done. Just depends how inventive you are.

Hope this encourages you to do it. I really like mine.

Paul P

mookie14 · August 2003

this should i go by the operators book as far is what to maintain or maintenance rather. the dealer is confusing me what should i do? in my book it says 15000 mile service axle joints fuel filter WHERE DOES All this other stuff come in at i got a 03 tbalzer ls lket me know i do not drive in a dusty place im like oh burbs city so..... thanks.

tblazed · August 2003

I guess yours paulpro already had the interior auto-dim mirror? It would certainly make it easier if the vehicle already has the auto-dim interior mirror. Does the '03 have the auto-dim interior mirror? If so, then probably just a matter of replacing the outside mirror and hooking up a couple of missing wires since the two mirrors work together. That is, IF the '03 version interior mirror has the output connection needed to run the outside mirror.

iexplore2000 · August 2003

My 03 does have the inside dimming mirror. I do understand how essential this piece of the puzzle is to adding the outside dimming mirror.

Thanks to everyone for responding. It definitely looks as if there is not an easy way to do this. Unfortunatly, I don't have the guts to go ripping off door panels and trying to add wires in order to make this work properly. I just figured that if the inside door wiring harness was "dimmer-mirror" ready, then I could simply purchase the mirror, plug it into the existing harness and watch it work. Apparently, this is not the case.

Maybe I will mosy over to the local GMC dealer to see if they can pull up one of those schematic diagrams to see if it indicates that the inside door wiring on SLT models are already "dimming-mirror" ready like the 2002's? Initially, I called to inquire and was told very quickly by the parts team "NO.. that option has been deleted for 2003." I felt that the answer given was just simply a quick NO because of the decontenting, but it does seem as if the wiring would/should be in place.

Thanks everyone!

IExplore2000

nuyorkah · August 2003

"Maybe I will mosy over to the local GMC dealer to see if they can pull up one of those schematic diagrams to see if it indicates that the inside door wiring on SLT models are already "dimming-mirror" ready like the 2002's? Initially, I called to inquire and was told very quickly by the parts team "NO.. that option has been deleted for 2003." I felt that the answer given was just simply a quick NO because of the decontenting, but it does seem as if the wiring would/should be in place."

Dennis, I'm sorry to tell you going to the dealer will get you nowhere. The connectors on the 02 & 03 are the same but they are missing the wiring you need. Also GM will not help you alter your vehicle beyond factory specs. You should go to a shop that does custom Audio/Video/Electronics installs and run it by them. GoodLuck

tblazed · August 2003

Hey nuyorkah why don't you look and see if the '02 and '03 Interior auto-dim mirrors have the same part number? If they do, then at least the int mirror should have the extra connection for the outside mirror hook-up. That might put an end to the question, or leave open the possibility for someone that wants to do a little wiring mod. Just a thought.

nuyorkah · August 2003

"Hey nuyorkah why don't you look and see if the '02 and '03 Interior auto-dim mirrors have the same part number? If they do, then at least the int mirror should have the extra connection for the outside mirror hook-up. That might put an end to the question, or leave open the possibility for someone that wants to do a little wiring mod. Just a thought."

I did check on door and mirror harness but not inside mirror, I will tomorrow.

tblazed · August 2003

nuyorkah, curious what the difference is with the new '04 front stabilizer bar they have changed. Different link setup, bigger, smaller or?? Maybe your source for info will show that.

Also there seems to be two different part numbers for the transmission filter kit. My Owner's manual shows one number, someone else said that is wrong. What is the correct number? '02 2WD TB

redline65 · August 2003

Question for you auto climate control owners - the manual says if the temperature is hot enough the auto system will run on recirculation until it cools down enough in the cabin. I noticed with the near-100 degree days here in north Texas that I have to manually push the recirculate button. Is this a misprint or should it recirculate automatically?

quickdtoo · August 2003

There is a deep pan kit and a shallow pan kit for the 4L60E tranny. My '02 tb has the deep pan. The shallow pan is ~2.25" deep, the deep pan ~3" deep. This is according to the '02 factory service manual. I replaced the filter with part#24208576 transmission filter kit for the deep pan. The replacement filter was identical in dimensions to the original. It's also possible that the part number has changed since the owner's manual was published. hth, tim

envoylover · August 2003

Redline my 2002 Climate Control Envoy does the same thing. I also live in Texas. I stuck a thermometer in the vent, and it was 70f comming out of the vent at idle, with the car in recirc it was 50f. It is much easier to cool the air in the car than take 100f to 50f. I think it sucks but I guess we will just have to push the button each time.

nuyorkah · August 2003

The inside mirrors are the same for 02-03 triplets, there are five to choose from depending on options.

pn# 24208576 tranny filter is still a good number for the deep pan. Another way to tell the difference is if the filter is all black its deep, if its black with silver(metal)its shallow.

wxman4 · August 2003

I have a 03 Trailblazer. When it is hot enough it will go to recirculate on its own when in auto. The little light on the recirc button does not, however, light up unless I put it in recirc manually.

Wxman

mdey · August 2003

A while back someone was wondering how far the oil life sensor will go. I have a TB LS. I do not reset the oil life sensor at the 3k oil change intervals I use. I just reset it when it comes on, but I note it in a log just in case. Here is my experience:

First time on: 13,200
Second time on: 26,500
Third time on: 40,900

The dealer apparently doesn't reset it at the odd times I have had them change the oil. No chance I would change my oil by that schedule even if I used sythetic (which I don't).

tblazed · August 2003

So there are two filters that can go in these? My owner's manual states one part number 24200796 apparently for the shallow pan, and then there is this other number for the "deep" pan. How can I tell which depth pan I have before I take it apart? Is the pan depth apparent just by looking at it from under the truck? Would like to buy the parts ahead of time and have the filter kit ready to go before I drop the pan.

From my mostly less than 6 mi at a time, short trip driving, my change oil light came on first time at 6600 miles. The earliest I have seen reported.

ross1962 · August 2003

"Redline my 2002 Climate Control Envoy does the same thing. ..... I think it sucks but I guess we will just have to push the button each time. "

If it sucks, that means the fan is in backward! Return this vehicle to the dealer at once before your head explodes!

envoylover · August 2003

You know what they say "I like to suck". My AC performs "ok", I would expect better cooling. Do any of you guys have a $3.00 AC thermometer you stick in your vent. We could get an average of how cold they blow. I have never witnessed the AC go into auto recirc and it was 98F and 70% humididity yesterday.

redline65 · August 2003

The nice thing about the Envoy XL is that you can turn the ceiling air vents around and make them blow on the back of your neck. Helps to cool the driver and passenger down a bit quicker.

medolark · August 2003

My 2002 Envoy goes into auto-recirc when outside temps are about 100F. I usually run an interior temp setting of about 67 in the summer. If one ran a higher setting, say 72, you might not see auto recirc until outside temps got even higher than 100F. (this is just a guess on my part, I don't know how sophisticated the control logic is)

nuyorkah · August 2003

"How can I tell which depth pan I have before I take it apart? Is the pan depth apparent just by looking at it from under the truck? Would like to buy the parts ahead of time and have the filter kit ready to go before I drop the pan."

The pans look the same and it would be hard to tell just by looking at it. All I can tell you is the deep pan is far more popular than shallow. You can roll the dice and buy the deep or buy both and return one.

quickdtoo · August 2003

The deep pan measures 3" from flange bottom to bottom of pan outside. The shallow pan measures ~2.25". See post #12411 for more info. tim

2002slt · August 2003

"I NEVER run the a/c in outside air mode. Why would you ever want to air-condition the hot, stinky, dusty, humid outside air?"

When you get in your truck and your inside windows start to fog up...That's the time to use outside air. This is common in the Chicago area.

aldan93 · August 2003

If us dumb consumers went by the oil life sensor, our warranty would certainly by void!!! My sensor lit up on 10,200 miles, LOL what a waist!!!

Getting close to my next oil change, would anyone reccomend Mobil 1?

Also what do you guys do jack, or drive up on homemade ramps to change oil? My body will not fit under skid plate!!!!

Has anyone tried those FRAM oil plug tubes that screw into the oil plug for easy draining?

quickdtoo · August 2003

I agree, kind of a silly system. My body won't fit under there either so I use a pair of steel ramps to drive up on, they're not expensive and easier to use than a jack and jack stands. Fram doesn't have an application for our triplets. You wouldn't want one anyway, the drain plug would be below the skid plate and the risk of impact wouldn't be worth it. tim

tjcishere1 · August 2003

I haven't logged on in a while although i do read most of the posts. I have 2002 Envoy XL SLT The truck is running very good a few bugs in it in the beginning but now been trouble free. But i did notice i have a license plate bulb out, i took the little cover off but i cant seem to get the bulb lose has anyone changed one and if so is there a trick? and also what # is the bulb i figured it was a # 194 but once i got it out i would be able to match it up. if anyone could help me i would be thank full

tblazed · August 2003

Looked at my service manual. It says remove the two screws that hold the bulb lens, remove the lens, and remove the bulb. That's it. No trick to it. Not in the manual anyway. Someone with a parts breakdown list will have to come up with the bulb type number. I looked in my owners manual, see they refer you to the dealer for the license bulb replacement. I guess GM figures customers are not not capable of replacing some of the bulbs. However there is more disassembly to replace the tail lamps, and they give you the part numbers for those. Go figure.

seiford · August 2003

Our '03 Envoy SLT continues to have the intermittant stutter at idle when stopped at a stop light for over 30 seconds. GM admitted it's a known tranny issue but they don't have a fix. The only escalation path they gave us was to go to the BBB. Our hearing is Friday.

So I'm gathering information for the hearing. I know a few people posted awhile back that they also had this problem with their Envoys. Do you still have the problem? 2002 or 2003 model? Have you had your dealer try to fix it? Can you reproduce the problem at will?

We're pretty loyal GM customers but have been really disappointed with how they have handled our complaint.

lurker01 · August 2003

I have had the issue. Reported it to the dealer. They claim 'could not reproduce'. I can make it happen at will. Since I reported it durring the warrenty, I will use that as ammo incase I ever need something fixed later with the transmission. Otherwise, I am living with it. I think there was an explaination about things binding up and then 'relaxing' when at a stop light on this board awhile back. For the record, here is what I told my dealer:

· Clunk felt from undercarriage when stopped at intersection.
Steps to reproduce: Truck must be cold. Start truck and drive short distance (<.25 miles) to a stop sign or intersection. Wait at intersection for ~1 min. You will feel a clunk or series of clunks from the lower rear of the truck. Feels like the car behind you didnt stop in time and tapped your bumper! Could be some sort of binding problem in the rear differential or other mechanical connection. After driving a few minuets and stopping again, the problem does not reoccur. However, the next time the truck is cold, the same thing will happen. Could it be a lubrication issue in some part that occurs after truck sits awhile?

Let me know if you get anywhere with this.

-John

tblazed · August 2003

Thanks! musta slipped by me the 1st time

n7don · August 2003

Our '03 Envoy only has 1700 miles but haven't experienced the problem you described. Did your Envoy have this condition out of the box? While I haven't done much stop&go driving I have idled for several minutes before pulling up a ramp and didn't notice anything out the ordinary. Recently install a trans. oil cooler and had to add 1/2 qt. of make up for the volume of the cooler. I noticed the Castrol ATF stated "Meets the new anti-shudder performance and sprag gear wear requirements of the DEXRON-III specifiction" I haven't researched when this requirement became effective but "shudder" and stutter sound similar. One would think if it were an oil issue it would be easy to fix.

macman246 · August 2003

The stuttering (and subsequent stalling) is what I had with a cold engine stopped for > 1 minute at a light. It would sometimes do that when fully warmed up too, but less often. Dealer tried fixing it 6 times, replacing ignition switch, throttle body, ECM, body control module, and some other stuff I can't remember.

I decided not to go the BBB route since I heard you will hardly ever get satisfaction, and instead contacted a lemon law attorney directly. The whole buyback process for my '02 Envoy took 4 months, didn't cost me a dime, and was painless.

Good luck!

stever · August 2003

They don't seem to have a good history of favorable results for consumers.... maybe it has something to do with the fact that businesses fund them. Has anyone here enjoyed good results complaining to the BBB?

Steve, Host

Buick Rainier, Chevy TrailBlazer, GMC Envoy

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