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Buick Rainier, Chevy TrailBlazer, GMC Envoy

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  • brunopuntzjonebrunopuntzjone Member Posts: 22
    I didn't consider the Exploder because I don't particularly care for how Ford's generally drive.

    I've had my TB 03 LTZ for about 2300 miles and haven't had any problems, hopefully won't have any :D

    The only thing is the driver's door rattles a bit more than I would expect, other than that it's great. Super happy with it.
  • richardcoulsonrichardcoulson Member Posts: 88
    My AC just quit working today during our 96 degree humid weather. I think reading about all these AC problems jinxed me...
  • cparise1cparise1 Member Posts: 109
    Oldsman01,
    I've rented lots of Ford SUV's on business trips especially Explorer and overall they're okay and have never let me down, but I've always been annoyed by a few things that Ford hasn't gotten right in the last 30 years that I've been driving.
    The vagueness of the way the shift lever, feels like you're not really sure which gear its gonna drop into; Steering has always seemed vague,too; and braking doesn't inspire any confidence either. I've heard the '04's are improved but I don't think they have a hydroformed frame, an I-6 engine as an option, or air suspension (ECAS) as an option either. Enlighten me if they do. Get the upgraded Bose stereo if you listen to music, its superb whatever your listening pleasure. And the get the limited slip differential.
    Good luck on your choice.
    A happy Envoy XL SLT owner.
    Chris
  • iexplore2000iexplore2000 Member Posts: 237
    Oldsman01..

    Don't know if you are in the market for a non-GM, FORD or Chrysler vehicle, but I highly recommend that you check out the new VW!

    Just for kicks, I stopped by the local VW dealer the other day because they had several on their lots. Talk about quality! The materials inside and out of the VW were superb! Everything felt as if it was made to stand the test of time.

    Depending on how much you want to spend, that may steer you away from the VW? I believe that the Toureg begins around the mid thirties and can end up at $53K (and some change). They come equipped with either a 6 or 8 cylinder and even a ride height adjustable suspension. Honestly, I was quite impressed. The exterior lines were beautiful and very classy looking indeed. I wish I would have waited a little longer because although I love my Envoy, I really LOVE the Toureg. It is definitely a head turner. Also, the Toureg is based off of the Porsche SUV platform and sports a lot of the same equipment for LESS money.

    Good Luck!

    IExplore2000
  • oldsman01oldsman01 Member Posts: 1,203
    The Toureg is out of my price range. It's a nice looking rig, but if I'm going that route, I'll wait for the Cadillac SRX which looks to be a very impressive SUV. VWs do have very nice looking interiors, but some long term reviews I've read leave me questioning their long term quality. And I can't see spending 40K+ on a "people's car". Actually, if I had that much to spend there would be a Cadillac CTS sitting in my driveway. I've just recently considered the Explorer and TB because in reality I could use the utility and space an SUV affords(I could use not need) and with the discounts the prices on those two seem pretty good.
  • scottc454scottc454 Member Posts: 356
    I guess we can agree to disagree but I'd stay away from the Toureg.

    Over 5000 lbs. with a 220HP V-6 and slightly worse fuel economy. That's the 40 grand version. For 5 grand or so more you can get the 5300 lb. V-8 version. Why so heavy? Folks, that's fat not phat!

    If you think you have reliability with the triplets, just wait till you get a Volkswagon. Not to mention, repair & maintenance costs are way more.

    I do think the Germans know how to make good interiors and make cars fun to drive, but they've got most people fooled about their reliability. I guess I give them some credit for being able to fool people, though.
  • jerrywimerjerrywimer Member Posts: 588
    I was left with a distinct impression that I would've been disatisfied with one most of the time. The main things that I notice day-to-day with my Trailblazer are the capacity (used frequently since my wife loves to take the family Garage Sale-ing on weekends) and the overall good looks.

    The review leads me to believe that the VW would be extremely satisfying for me when I'm traveling alone without a need to carry anything, and especially so if I planned to take it off-road more than the average person might another SUV. There's no getting around the looks however- reminds me of a VW Bug that's eaten way too much. And for the money, unless I had a distinct need for more than mild off-road use combined with above-average luxury features, I couldn't justify the extra cost. (In that case, I'd probably spend on an old beater Jeep for the off-road portion anyway).

    The towing numbers were pretty impressive however. Edmunds indicated that both versions (V6 and V8) have a 7000+ lb towing capacity, and this was for a CAR based vehicle!
  • envoyloverenvoylover Member Posts: 10
    I had my 2002 Envoy computer updated but still experience the fan roar once every 3 or 4 days. Is there a permanent repair for this, like a new clutch? It is ridiculous GM cannot design a fan clutch correctly after using them for 40 plus years.
  • scottc454scottc454 Member Posts: 356
    The fan roar will happen occasionally. That's just the way it works. This type of clutch isn't a normal fan clutch from the olden days. It is variable and computer controlled. Sometimes it needs to spin fluid out of itself upon startup. One of the GM tech link sites has an article about it somewhere.
  • redline65redline65 Member Posts: 693
    I thought the SRX was out already? Pretty sure I saw one in a parking lot a few weeks ago. Looked really small on the outside, almost like a mini-'ute.

    I shopped the Explorer/Mountaineer before buying the Envoy XL. I really like the handling of the Explorer, but the Envoy's interior was much better, IMO. The Explorer's V6 wasn't as quiet as the Envoy's I6. The 3rd row is a little cramped compared to the Envoy XL's.
  • #noname#noname Member Posts: 58
    Yeah, it's smaller than a std. Envoy, heavier than a Tahoe, and gets horrible gas mileage to match. That and VW is near the bottom of JD Powers ratings (way worse than GM). Makes me want to spend $50 grand........

    GAM
  • #noname#noname Member Posts: 58
    Hey Scott,

    There's either something wrong with that calculation OR JetChip's HP readings from their Dyno pull are WAY off. Using the calculation:

    Torque = HP * 5252/RPM (simple matter of flipping the equation...and yes, that's what it would being assuming your HP = Torque * RPM/5252 is correct).

    At 2500RPM, JetChip has the Envoy/TB hitting 158HP Stock which would yield a Torque of 332! Thats MUCH higher than the MAX Torque GM is citing of 275.....I WISH that my I6 made that kind of Torque at 2500rpm and if they did, I'm pretty sure GM would advertise that and not the 275. (That sounds more along the lines of what the V8 makes....I'm wondering if the published the V8 numbers on the I6 graph?)

    I only started looking at the numbers as I'm contemplating grabbing a JetChip or Hypertech (if they ever become available).

    Ray
  • iexplore2000iexplore2000 Member Posts: 237
    SRX? Yuck! Phooey!

    I've seen several on the roads in Michigan and talk about STATION WAGON. The vehicle reminds me of a Subaru Forester for crying out loud.

    For the amount of money Cadillac will charge for the SRX, I'd definitely look elsewhere.. I guess the SRX is a TRUE cross-over vehicle to say the least.. Looks like it crossed back over to a regular station wagon if you ask me! <SMILE>

    Heck.. throw some wood trim on the side and the SRX might be mistaken for a Buick or Oldsmobile station wagon! Well... I hate to see that there is such bitterness towards the Toureg.. I agree that it's a little pricy, but if you look at it up close and personal, it's a pretty nice rig. Just for kicks, I may venture out and test drive the V-8 model this weekend. I will let you all know how well she handles.. I believe that the V-8's have 310 hp? Now, that's gotta FLY! Since I am a gadget man, I am really interested in trying out the adjustable ride suspension.

    Thanks!

    IExplore2000
  • jerrywimerjerrywimer Member Posts: 588
    since it's basically a lower level version of the Porsche Cayenne (sp?). That's my main issue with both of those though, for SUVs, they weigh quite a lot more than they return in usable volume (one of the main reasons for even considering an SUV, imo). I can buy something like a 'vette for the extra kick in the butt or an old Jeep CJ (and spend a few of the saved $$ to go all-out for off-road use) and have a better specific-purpose vehicle.

    If they figure out how to keep all the other attributes while increasing the usable space in the vehicle, and if the resulting vehicle has improved its reliability, then possibly I could see spending that much money on the V8 equipped version. Of course, the cars are guaranteed to have a receptive spot in the market, just going by all the BMW and Mercedes 'ute drivers out there, so maybe I'm just strange after all. :P
  • scottc454scottc454 Member Posts: 356
    I believe that the V-8's have 310 hp? Now, that's gotta FLY!

    This is why I complained about the weight.

    triplet: 4600 lbs / 275HP = 16.7 lbs/HP
    V8 Toureg: 5300 lbs / 310HP = 17.1 lbs/HP

    The triplet actually has the better ratio here.
    All that power is wasted moving that mass.

    If I were in the market for that type of ute I'd go for the MDX. It's the best of the luxo-utes. It's light, powerful, handles well, and isn't pretentious.

    I'm curious to see how the Rainieer turns out.
  • macman246macman246 Member Posts: 118
    ... ended up in Garden City, KS (originally purchased in Phoenix). How do I know? I got one of those service satisfaction surveys in the mail, with the name of the dealership printed on it.

    So buyer beware: if you purchased or leased a pewter '02 Envoy SLT (2WD, 4.10 axle, Bose, load leveling suspension, running boards), within the past 4 weeks in Garden City, KS, you may have a stalling problem (unless by some miracle they finally found a solution and fixed it, which I hope they did because it was a great SUV otherwise).

    Chances are none of the forum members here own it, but you never know. It would be interesting to see if they disclosed the "lemon" status on the title. That little designation sometimes gets lost when a vehicle crosses state lines.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    You think that's why your lemon would up in another state?

    nahhh, that'd never happen.

    /sarcasm

    It'd almost be worth it to run the VIN through Carfax to see what shows up.

    Steve, Host
  • 41564156 Member Posts: 31
    Just started at 23,000 mile on my 02 TB. After starting engine and within about 30 seconds, there is a loud tapping noise (5 quick taps each time) somewhere in the IP. Sounds like someone tapping on the windshield with a piece of steel.

    Once it makes the noise after engine start, will not do it again until shutdown and restart. I have no guess as to what this could be.
  • ficussficuss Member Posts: 541
    look at your outside rearview mirrors when you hear the clicking, it could be them making the sounds. Otherwise look for your cat, it may be signaling that it is under the car.

    Frank
  • tmac8tmac8 Member Posts: 32
    Walked out to my 2002 black Envoy today (from the rear) and noticed the third brake light cover coming unglued from the glass in a few places. Won't be able to talk to the dealer until Monday, and was wondering if this will fall off or not. Thought I read somewhere in the past about a tailgate window falling off a TB or Envoy. Knock on wood 13 months and first problem with Vehicle.
  • nuyorkahnuyorkah Member Posts: 100
    Don't worry there are screws holding it on.
    Your dealer will just replace the double-sided tape thats lost its adhesion to the glass.
  • paulctpaulct Member Posts: 16
    I just picked up a new 2003 Envoy. Aside from the
    various comments about GMC ( I also own a 2003 Yukon XL), I have a question for anyone that has a light colored interior. I noticed a significant reflective glare caused by the dashboard. More specifically, it comes from the frontmost portion of the dashboard which has a seam between the rest of the dash from pillar to pillar. Apparently the material on the front portion is much shiner than the matted portion of the dash. It's quite annoying. My 2003 Yukon XL has no seam and is dark grey (which will naturally resist reflective glare). Does anyone have the same issue? Any thoughts including a dash cover? Thanks.
  • pete2002pete2002 Member Posts: 36
    Had the same problem except it varied at times the number of taps it would make at start up. Went to the dealer in June and they knew exactly what it was, the mechanic that attended me that is because the service advisor had no clue. It is the A/C mode valve actuator that is behind the dash board. It is faulty and needs to be replaced. When you start up it locks up and goes thru a few cycles making that loud noise. They have to take out your dash board to get in there. It is a mess. Plan on a full days work.
  • twinrottstwinrotts Member Posts: 161
    Was making a full lock left turn today on uneven pavement and heard several clunk type sounds.
    This is not the first time I have experienced this and in fact mentioned it to the dealer service. His response was "what do you expect from a truck".
    Anyway, did some searching tonight on this site under the control arm recall, bushings, and clunk.
    Only found one post that mentioned a clunk at a full turn but really had no good information.
    Anyone out there that has had this and pursued?

    Any thoughts on what to look at??
  • 41564156 Member Posts: 31
    Thanks pete 2002, you were right on. By operating the mode selector switch, I was able to duplicate the noise. I always leave the switch in the far left position (IP vents only) and when the ignition is turned off it apparently defaults to another position. When ignition is turned on it will then return to my selected position and make the noise.

    I do not like the idea of letting the dealer tear apart my IP in order to reach the valve. I may consider replacing the valve myself if the part is not too costly. This is my first real problem with the vehicle (23,000 miles) but these parts should be good for the life of the vehicle. It is apparently an electric valve that is not shutting off when the HVAC doors move to the selected position.
  • quickdtooquickdtoo Member Posts: 266
    Just installed the Hotchkis rear sway bar and front bushing upgrade kit on my '02 TB providing a much needed improvement in handling, minimal to no "lean" on hard corners, need new tires now to match the suspension handing capabilities, the OEM 16" tires are way inadequate. Ride on rough roads is a little more firm, but not uncomfortable at all, maybe a little Euro feel. The OEM rear bar measures .935", the Hotchkis bar measures 1.075". I also installed grease fitting on the front bar to eliminate the poly bushing's nature to be squeak prone. The upgrade is well worth the ~$200 price tag and relatively easy to install. The Hotchkis instructions are good, maybe too good, they instruct you to suspend the rear from the frame on jack stands and remove the lower control links, but I backed on to a pair of steel ramps, unhooked the OEM bar and removed it without removing the lower control links as instructed. Was a bit tight extracting and relocating the bars but saved some time and effort. tim
    https://www.hotchkis.net/secure_index.html
  • dashcraft123dashcraft123 Member Posts: 9
    the other day i went to change my oil and found a leak on the right front side. i took it to a service center here and they said it was the right front diff seal leaking. what color fluid is in the diff. the fuild that i see coming out looks almost clear and kinda smells like the power steering fluid. i am in the military and will be deploying soon. if it is the diff seal leaking will it be ok if it sits while i am gone. they wont be able to fix it till the 8 of sept and i leave soon. just want to know if it will be ok while i am gone. i do realize it will leak while i am gone but will all the fluid leak out. and if so how will i know when i get back. i dont know that much about a car. i can change the oil and thats about it. go figure i can fix 50 million dollar aircraft but cant fix a car.
  • elliot69elliot69 Member Posts: 9
    Check out my message #12530 reguarding this and the message I was responding to: Sway bar link problem. Pretty sure this is your problem. Elliot
  • cparise1cparise1 Member Posts: 109
    This came from the FAQ's on mygmlink.com. If I were in your shores I'd find a dealer that could accurately diagnose the problem.

    Why do I hear a momentary motor or clicking noise when I start my engine and begin to drive away?
     
     
    Your vehicle has anti-lock brakes. ABS is an advanced electronic braking system that will prevent a braking skid. You may hear a momentary motor or clicking noise when you start your engine and begin to drive away. This is your anti-lock braking system checking itself and is normal.
  • dshepherd3dshepherd3 Member Posts: 194
    Hard to believe the dealer wouldn't accomodate you based on your military circumstances!! Anyway, you should be ok, if you only have a short drive to the service dept, however, I would ask them since they cannot fix this in a timely manner, what do they feel about you using it this way.
  • dashcraft123dashcraft123 Member Posts: 9
    it is not a dealer it is only a service center. i live in europe and there is no chevy dealers in this country. they really did not seem to have a clue on what to do. they are the only ones here that service american vehicles under warranty. so thats why it takes so long for them to get it in. i do wish i could take it down the road to a dealer but i cant. if i let it sit and it does leak out all the fluid will it still be covered under the warranty?
  • gam2gam2 Member Posts: 316
    Saw the Buick Rainier today. As expected, it's a Bravada with a new front end and an optional V-8.
    The interior is the same as the Bravada except for minor changes. No apparent changes in sound deadening from the outside. All the seals look the same, as are the mirrors. I would have to drive one to see if there really is a difference. Should do well for Buick.

    GAM
  • aciampiaciampi Member Posts: 66
    Just wondering if anyone has had any luck with a fix to the wandering mirrors problem or any success with a buyback from Chevy. I have just picked up my LTZ for about the eighth time from the dealership just for the mirrors. This time a factory rep. was called and said to replace a module on the door. I now have to bring my trailblazer in again on Monday because that didn't take. Now they want the engineer to come down and take a look at it to figure what the hell is going on. Also they have seemed to fix my air conditioning problems. If anyone has a problem where the re-circulate button malfunctions or doesn't work at all, have the dealer replace the climate controll face plate.
    By the way so far my trailblazer has had multiple modules re-programed, multiple modules replaced, actuators replaced, BCM re-programing, climate control face plate replaced, on-star unit replaced, and right rear speaker replaced. And although I understand these problems are not on every trailblazer (i know because my cousin has the same one and no problems) but I hate and would not recommend this vehicle to anyone. If I didn't work for family, I would have been fired for constantly having to bring my truck to the dealer.
  • sbindleysbindley Member Posts: 28
    My gauges went dead, then came back on after a brief stop. I would guess that there is a sevice bulletin on this issue. Any ideas?
  • quickdtooquickdtoo Member Posts: 266
    Scott, see message #7006. tim
  • quickdtooquickdtoo Member Posts: 266
    For anyone interested in a little home remedy here are the instructions from the factory service manual. (EDIT)"This process enables the auto adjuster.":

    1. Lower the park brake lever.

    2. Raise the park brake lever.

    3. Lift the park brake lever boot to gain access to the multiplier lever at the front of the park brake lever assembly.

    4. Pivot the multiplier lever up and down 3 times.

    5. Cycle the park brake lever up and down 3 time for the auto adjustment.

    6. Lower the park brake lever boot.

    I haven't done this yet, so you're on your own from here.

    Tim
  • momstruck1momstruck1 Member Posts: 206
    Ok I will say I need a new running board on the drivers side and I need a paint job for the drivers door. it is badly scratched any info on how much about it should cost let me know.I know that 2 running boards for an ext should run $550 but what about one?? and where to get it fixed goto the dealer or go else where? I want it to look like new.
  • scottc454scottc454 Member Posts: 356
    If 2 running boards should run $550, then one should cost $275. You see, $550 / 2 = $275.

    Sorry, couldn't resist.
  • quickdtooquickdtoo Member Posts: 266
    This has been asked about a few times. I checked with gmpartsdirect for fuel tank cost just to see if installing the larger tank was practical. The part number for the long wheelbase triplet is 15181557, cost is $526.28, list (our price thru a dealer >$800.00)....not practical in my book even if it would fit, which isn't known. The site doesn't address tank size. tim
  • quickdtooquickdtoo Member Posts: 266
    While at gmppartsdirect I checked the price of EXT side steps, ~$340 shipped for part
     # 12498007. It doesn't indicate molded as other applications do but the other two side steps listed for the EXT are tubular. hth, tim
  • paulyjsobpaulyjsob Member Posts: 48
    I'm thinking about installing a remote starter in my 2003 Envoy. Any recommendations?
  • ross1962_99ross1962_99 Member Posts: 48
    A recall has been issued on this.
  • ficussficuss Member Posts: 541
    Have the dealer install it, that way they will be less likely to blame the installation if the car experiences any problems even remotely associated with the circuits. Also, make sure the installation doesn't void any warranty you may still have.

    Frank
  • aciampiaciampi Member Posts: 66
    I would have to agree, having the dealer install the starter would be your best bet because they will blame any electrical problem on any system that isn't theirs. I had a Viper unit installed for $400 that works great but I haven't been able to use it since April because GM blamed all the electrical problems on my trailblazer on the remote start. Come to find out they are full of crap. But AC Delco who is owned by GM offers a remote starter for about $300 that most GM dealers carry in stock. Also the good thing about the AC Delco is that you use your factory key fob to start the vehicle rather than having an extra one and this way when they blame the remote start it is their fault.
  • dshepherd3dshepherd3 Member Posts: 194
    I don't think you will lose enough fluid to be a problem, the level of seal is not at such a point that fluid will drain through it from the case.
  • rainersrainers Member Posts: 50
    I find this thread interesting. I am aware of a ACDelco remote starter but was told it was discontinued. I also called the dealer and they told me that they did not offer one for the TB. If anyone has a part # or any other info that would help. I would appreciate it.
  • aciampiaciampi Member Posts: 66
    When I purchased my 2003 TrailBlazer I was told that I could get an AC Delco starter and have it installed by the dealer, not when they are built at the factory. I was then told that starting in the 2004 model the factory is going to either install all the wiring and then the dealer plugs a little module in your vehicle, or that it would be a factory option that is completly installed by the factory and has nothing to do with the dealer. But then again I did price out a 2004 TrailBlazer at the dealer and a remote start was not one of the options available. But as far as I know unless something has changed the starters are available for the TB and are not being discontinued
  • cparise1cparise1 Member Posts: 109
    I had mine installed by the dealer and the installation did not violate the factory warranty. Paid $500 for it and its marvelous. One of the better accessories I ever bought. It will cut into your gas mileage but on bitter cold days or sweltering heat, I care not. Supposed to have a 1000+ range and although I've never measured it, as a golfer I can attest to what 300 yards is, probably comes pretty close to that.
    With all the electronics on these vehicles I wouldn't touch the install. The factory key fob still works but obviously you'll need another fob with the starter button.
    Chris
  • aciampiaciampi Member Posts: 66
    I am not sure when cparise1 had his remote start installed but on both a 2003 tahoe and 2003 silverado purchased last November and January, by pressing both the lock and unlock button the remote start will activate. No extra fob is required
  • paulyjsobpaulyjsob Member Posts: 48
    I asked my dealer about it yesterday and they do not sell them there. They have another company they use for remote starters. Thanks for the help!
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