Buick Rainier, Chevy TrailBlazer, GMC Envoy

kgbkahnk · September 2003

My latest issue of Auto Week came yesterday, in which there is a small article detailing the quality issues currently with Diamler-Chrysler (and specifically with the recall of 2000 MB E-class sedans for electrical problems).

In the article, it states that JD Powers rates DCX 15th in initial quality - - 2 spots *below* Chevy!

Now, I'm not saying that being rated 13th in Initial Quality is anything to brag too loudly about. I'm just trying to point out that we all could've paid a *lot* more money and been having the same sort of "glitchy" electrical problems that many people on this board seem to be experiencing.

So Take Heart: The next time the mirrors wander on your TB/Envoy/Bravada, just smile to yourself and be thankful it didn't cost you an extra $20k for the pleasure of returning to your dealer for service for the gajillionth time.

jvwheel · September 2003

The A/C went out on my TB at 1700 Mi. The problem was intermitent and luckily the problem occurred at the dealership as well. The dealer replaced the cycling switch and showed me the new switch on a Aluminum tank under the hood. He stated he showed me the switch because thay had a failure rate of 10% and he wanted me to know he really did the work. He said they used to have a failure rate of 40% but that this is the new and slightly improved one and they are better but are far from good. Does anyone know anything about the new cycle switch and the failure rate. It is unbeleiveable to me that GM accapts a 10% defect rate....... What happened to QS9000 and all that jazz. Also I got my TB without the front inside seat track covers and when I asked the dealership to provide two they said Chevy dosen't put them on the front inside bolts any longer - dose anyone know if they are blowing smoke or is GM really that broke.

stever · September 2003

Here's the wiper story that you heard about:

Windshield-wiper woe may force GM recall (Salt Lake Tribune)

Steve, Host

vachevyguy · September 2003

This has happened more then once. If I'm stopped on an upward include and then gently feather the gas my '03 Trailblazer LT will stall out. I brought it to the dealer, they check out the throttle body and hosed it down w/cleaner but it still happens. Anyone else have this problem?

tblazed · September 2003

tblazed Jun 3, 2003 10:23am

Saw that one coming. As I predicted we will all probably be getting recall notices about the water that gets in the wiper motor cover.

ross1962_99 · September 2003

"It is unbeleiveable to me that GM accapts a 10% defect rate"

18% spelling errors just in that sentence!

gam2 · September 2003

What's irritating is all the BS we go thru at work regarding quality. ISO 9000, QS 9000, Design for Manufacture, FMEA, and on and on. Yet my '87 Toyota was far and away the most reliable vehicle I've owned. Is it just lip service or what? They
SHOULD be better!

GAM

celebrimbor · September 2003

"ISO 9000, QS 9000, Design for Manufacture, FMEA, and on and on."

From my experience these "programs" have nothing to do with quality. They define it as a process and focus entirely on the paperwork. As long as you've documented your processes, you can get be ISO qualified, even if the processes suck and the product falls apart (actual truth at my old employer). It's just more bureaucracy. . .

brunopuntzjone · September 2003

You misunderstand, the ISO stands for In Search Of quality

They obviously haven't found it.

(actually my 03 LTZ just has an annoying door rattle at 3600 miles, that's it)

2k_impala_ls · September 2003

I have about 8,000 miles on my 02 TB. I had the sway bar links replaced last month. I now have a clunking noise coming from the front end. You can feel it the most on a rough road coasting under 20mph I jacked it up and checked the tie rod ends and everything feels tight. My guess is a strut or bad bushing. ANY HELP would be appriated

momstruck1 · September 2003

I knew I wasn't going crazy and thought i heard something but my 2yr old was screaming so i really had to ask. thanks guys

pete2002 · September 2003

Thanks to all the follow ups...since I had a rain water leak on the passenger side of the inside cabin, I went ahead and returned the vehicle to the dealer and requested another investigation on the clunk. I will let you all know what they find out after today.

By the way, the water leak was on the E column on the passenger side. This is a hollow column and it filled up with water from the outside via a poorly sealed seam. Once the water fills above a column insert hole above the floor level, it starts to leak and the rugs soak up the rest. This is a factory defect caused by the robot arm that does the sealing on that side of the vehicle. The dealer knew exactly what to do when I showed them where it was coming from.

rubicon1 · September 2003

Well I went ahead and did it. I traded my 2002 TB LTZ for a 2004 Envoy carbon metallic. I love the color, overall I like the Envoy better. I hope all the problems with the TB are done with now.

Anyway the new Envoy has a 3.73 gear ratio. Any pros or cons about this. I don't know much about the difference.

kpp14 · September 2003

2k_impala_ls I had a similar problem / challenge. We should all make a dictionary that defines these sounds. What should we call the sound when you leave the dealer and your forehead toots the horn rapidly? At any rate I think youve narrowed down the source. My 2002 Envoy slt now makes none of those noises in the conditions you describe. Heres what the work order says:
"Replace front sway bar link rods (loose rods causing noise)" R&R front stabilizer shaft at control arm. Link kit 12479231 and 12479233. I just drove to Ottawa and back 1100 km (684 miles)and I have to say I really enjoy this truck. For those of you wishing to do business here....definately Toronto is the decision making place to be.

mdavis69 · September 2003

We stayed with the same color though (Pewter) but almost got the carbon. We did change to the dark pewter interior from the medium and it sets off the wood and silver accents better. So far, doesn't seem to be much different other than the real chrome wheels that look TONS better than the old gold-tinted chrome wheels. On the cons side, the head rest doesn't tilt any more and the antenna isn't built into the glass

We switched from a 4.10 gear ratio to the 3.73 and it wasn't that big a deal. But the 3.42 felt quite sluggish, so we avoided it. So, anyone happen to have headrests from a dark pewter 02 they want to sell??

P.S. Even though this Envoy was $1000 more MSRP, it costs us $2000 less with all the huge rebates going on. Wow!

hillfla · September 2003

Sad but true, GM does not provide the seat track covers for the two bolts on the front inside of the two seats. About 6 months ago I took my 2003 Envoy to the dealer and asked for them and was told "NO", that GM does not supply those covers. Bummer huh?

4156 · September 2003

The A/C problem found my TB (02 @ 25,000) this morning. Blowing warm air only (compressor not engaging). Posts here indicate a cycling switch malfunction. Anyone found another reason for the ubiquitous A/C problem.

As much as I like driving the TB, I can see that they are just not dependable and will be a very expensive vehicle to drive after warranty expiration, not to mention the unsettling feeling that something is likely to break at any time.

discofever · September 2003

As busy as the dealers are, I appreciated when my salesperson called to thank me for our purchase of a 2003 Envoy. Thinking this task is part of his job and was trying to butter me up so that I will give him and the dealership a Positive rating on the CSI report card, which GMC sends out shortly after a purchase. The salesperson followed up by sending me a nice pair of plants, which by the way are doing nicely.

Well, today I got a call from the Owner of the dealership, who also thanked me for our recent purchase and inquired if everything, was satisfactory with our purchase. He went on to say, if for any reason I was not content with any aspect of transaction or the vehicle to let him know so that he may correct and make it good. He provided me with his phone number where he could be reached in the future for any concerns.

Wow! I impressed... by him taking that extra little effort. To bad Im short on cash, I would buy one more.

lurker01 · September 2003

I was driving home last night, came to a stop light and when I started to go again, the speedometer was reading ~2x the actual speed. Everything else seemed fine. After about 3 miles, I came to another stoplight. When I stopped, the speedometer returned to zero. When I started moving again, it worked properly. Bizzare. It's like the stop caused it to 're-zero' and start working again. Not sure what could have caused it to go nuts in the first place. Now my question is what happens to the odometer when this thing does this? I have never seen this before in 2 years of ownership. I hope it does not happen again. Has anyone else seen this?
I have the latest updates and code for the dash.

ficuss · September 2003

such as the "tap the air conditioner switch under the hood" and the like should be organized and collated in rolodex form and mounted to the dash. If VW can get away with putting a flower pot on the dash, GM should be able to mount a rolodex. The rolodex would be for the LS model TB and the entry level models of Bravada and Envoy. The more pricey (technically advanced) models would of course get a Palm Pilot. The top of the line would get a wireless Palm connected to the net. That way, when OnStar fails, you could still get help. Make sure you put an ice cube tray under the Palm pilot, that way it will still work when the air conditioning fails. By the way, perhaps they should extend the wiper rain sense detector to the inside of the E column. That way we'll know if the robot missed a seam.

Frank

4156 · September 2003

Good idea ficuss. I have already started a notebook that I keep in the TB glovebox for my wife (She's the one stuck with driving the TB.) My first entry was re not being able to get the gearshift out of the park position. "Squeeze bottom of shift lever boot, lift up boot and push orange colored lever forward while moving gearshift out of park."

ficuss · September 2003

I'll race you to the patent office.
Frank

aldan93 · September 2003

AC, had low pressure switch replaced, Delphi makes this system for GM, Parts are most likely made in mexico or china, Electronic switches

Clink, I have it, I believe its a design function, .125 of a second delay in transfer of power due to "The Auto 4wd Function" Gives time for the pins to lock in in case wheels slip.

Gear ratio explained!!

3.42 @65MPH 2100 RPMS
3.71 @65MPH 2300 RPMS
4.10 @65 MPH 2500 RPMS Closer to the high point of torque curve!!! used for towing, higher the ratio the more times your engine spins!!!

So with 3.71 you will get to the red light faster and with more power than the 3.42, or beat him into a parking spot at the starbucks, you get the point.

pepper50 · September 2003

"Squeeze bottom of shift lever boot, lift up boot and push orange colored lever forward while moving gearshift out of park."

Anyone know the part number for this orange lever? My dealer wouldn't give me mine back when he removed it. I think I'll order one from gmpartsdirect.com to keep in my glovebox.

redline65 · September 2003

The A/C problem found my TB (02 @ 25,000) this morning. Blowing warm air only (compressor not engaging). Posts here indicate a cycling switch malfunction. Anyone found another reason for the ubiquitous A/C problem.

I had the same problem back in April. Had the low pressure cycle switch replaced and all was well until a few weeks ago when the A/C started going in and out again. I contacted GM customer service and opened a case file on my vehicle for this problem. GM got the service manager at my dealership involved. They did some research and determined that the switch replaced in April was the old version, and he told me to come in and get it replaced, which I did yesterday. Here is the part number info:

Switch replaced in April - FP# 1132749
Switch replaced yesterday - FP# 89040362

Description - Updated switch re-replace low pressure switch with even newer updated switch

This information was taken off of my invoice.

2002envoy · September 2003

i now have a front end suspension noise also.after my mechanic looked at it he said to take it back to gmc service.he suspects a bad strut as do i.i have a 2002 envoy sle with only 16k miles.quality has to improve.and by the way this noise started after taking my car for dashboard+shift lever recalls.hmmm

tblazed · September 2003

3.42 @65MPH 2100 RPMS

Curious how you came up with that. My TB with 3.42 gears turns about 1900-1925 RPM at 70 mph. A friend with 3.73 runs 10% higher than mine- about 2100 @ 70. Numbers with the torque converter in full-lock, no slippage.

n7don · September 2003

With 3.73 axle & 17" off-road Goodrich, rpm=2000, VSS=66 mph -'03 Envoy.

cparise1 · September 2003

Thanks to all that wrote in about my broken antenna. I bought a replacement antenna and base from the dealer for $52 + tax. Only needed the mast and the female holder, not the stick-on base.

As for car washes, I'll know better to unscrew the antenna now.

A big thank you to who ever wrote in about the front sway bar links! I am making a list of the items needing attention under warranty. I have 27K on my Envoy XL SLT. I still love it but I am going to get that low speed front end noise fixed once and for all. Also, I've got the rear license plate gasket problem.

Chris

aldan93 · September 2003

Its just an example, people have no idea what gear ratio does!!! Of course you guys do, those were not real world numbers just an example, I think mine is exactly like yours Tblazed, around 1850 @ 65

4156 · September 2003

A/C back to normal operation. No action taken. If it happens again I will ask for switch replacement with part number given by redline65.

I did have low a battery this morning and had to jump it to get to dealer for replacement (would not hold a charge). No charge of course, still under warranty. 21 mos. old and 25,000 miles seems a little soon for a battery to go, even here in Phoenix. Anyone else have a battery go this soon?

wpkelleysr · September 2003

Does anybody know how to remove/replace the boot that covers the gear shift lever? My gear shift knob comes loose from time to time - and I'm positive I could tighten it myself. I simply don't want to rip up the cover on my way in...

allenr · September 2003

Mine started leaking acid around that time, does that count?

Allen

offroad57 · September 2003

haven't posted for awhile but thought this was worth sharing.traded in 02 tb lt on 04 tb lt.was afraid to keep it any longer,first problem with the 02 was the hood chirp or squeak took service dept.4 hrs.to find it and grease the 2 rubber hood stops.i guess thats what they are called well the 1st thing i heard when i drove onto a gravel road in the 04 was the hood chirping.so i bought a 97 cent tube of grease at wal-mart and stopped the chirp.i thought there was a washer to fix this problem.must of forgot to put it on my vehicle.anyway the 04 with the 17in.wheels feels a lot better in curves,lot less body roll.going to get throttle checked out seems to be to much delay.also i noticed the recirculate cycles on and off automaticly didn't on the 02.will post problems as they happen as i have kept up with the board since 6-02

pete2002 · September 2003

Finally got my TB today from the dealer. They kept it for a couple of days. The water leak was sealed properly, they had to remove the right fender to get to the seam that was leaking. Also, the rugs were removed and cleaned. What a job, this cost chevy a pretty penney for not getting it right the first time.

Also, the rear end clunk was investigated and they reprogrammed the PCM. I have noticed that the drive train seems to respond a little better when I step on it, but I can still make it clunk at low speed. I will admit, it is harder now to make it do that. I suppose the reprogramming changed some of the timing on the transmission shifts and drive train engagement time. I will keep a close eye on it incase this gets worse than it is.

So far, the repairs done to my vehicle under warranty this year have been around $2K+ based on what I have seen written up by the dealer for billing to GM, plus rental expenses. I just do not see how they can make money off these vehicles with the rebates going and warranty repairs. Low margin business I guess.

01_hoe · September 2003

Does anybody know how to remove/replace the boot that covers the gear shift lever? My gear shift knob comes loose from time to time - and I'm positive I could tighten it myself. I simply don't want to rip up the cover on my way in...

------------------------------------------------------------------ ---------------
On my 03 Envoy, the shift knob was loose. I found a small set screw in front of the knob to tighten. Did not have to bother boot.

4156 · September 2003

This is where I found my hood squeak (actually thought is was coming from the front suspension) to be originating from. The round metal u shaped bracket that attaches to the hood and catches in the hood latch when the hood is closed, was in need of lubricant. A little white grease solved the problem.

jr45 · September 2003

A Oldsmobile Zone Rep is supposed to contact me about the drivetrain problems I am having with my '03 Bravada.

I'm curious as to what the Zone Rep does and how much authority he has. What I really want at this point is for Oldsmobile to oversee a final repair attempt to see if the shudding can be fixed or at least minimized. I figure this will be Olds' last shot at fixing the problem before I see a lawyer.

BTW, it's pretty clear that at least some of the problems I'm having stem from the Smart Trak AWL system, which is exclusive to the Bravada. Hopefully, owners of the other triplets won't get this problem.

lawrencew1 · September 2003

Does anybody know how to adjust the fog lights? and My heated seat and the memory save buttons are not working, could this be a fuse or are the switches dead?

wpkelleysr · September 2003

I use the "auto-on/auto-off" feature in my 02 Trailblazer. I set it in that position a year ago and haven't touched it since - until yesterday. When I turned the car off, I heard the "Light's On" warning bell for the first time. The warning bell will only stop if I cycle the switch to "dedicated off" and then back to "auto-on/auto-off" after shutdown. This has become a permanent condition. Anybody else experienced this?

discofever · September 2003

You can have the dealer perform this task.... they should not charge if the vehicle is within warranty.
Otherwise you can try this yourself
Tools needed: socket wrench and socket (can't remember the size)
1) Park vehicle with brake ON,
2) turn on vehicle,
3) turn on headlights, and fog lights .
(Note... It is best to have a background in front of your vehicle so that the lights may reflect off, ex. wall or garage door)
4) Next slide underneath front of vehicle directly underneath fog light, look for the fog light, and you will see a little metal stub, turn with the socket wrench and you will notice light and the reflection of the light move up or down on the wall/garage door.
5) adjust to your desired height (less than a full turn most cases).
6) Then adjust the other light to the same position making sure both reflection from the lights lineup.
7) Then test drive... (Make sure they are not adjusted so high that they blind the on-coming driver).

meekdog3 · September 2003

I bought a 2002Trailblaizer LTZ, brand new. 6 months later it was in the shop and has been 14 times in the past 8 months. Transmition went twice, Mirors would go wacky and adjust anyway they wanted to. All electrical problems. Dealer was unable to fix it. Finally got a buyback from GM.

ficuss · September 2003

for replacing 2 u joints on a Chev. 4wd pickup?

Frank

cparise1 · October 2003

I am not an expert on auto product costing but I've spent some time chatting with those in the product costing area in the American motorcycle industry (where I work) and if what I know about motorcycle profit margins applies to auto
manufacturers, I wouldn't be surprised if the mark up was close to 50%.

It certainly hurts GM to spend $2K on warranty work for a triplet but not every triplet gets that kind of money spent on it.

Chris

aldan93 · October 2003

Hey if it wasn't for the auto industry, we would all be Making $8 bucks an hour!!!! The UAW actually established a middle class in this country!!!!! Margin pays the bills!!!

littlegiant99 · October 2003

I'm thinking of trading my 2002 Envoy for a 2004. It has a 3.73.

I'm wondering if anyone has first hand inof/experience with the 3.42 behind the in-line 6 cyl. engine versus the 3.73.

I'd like to pick up the better mpg the 3.42 affords but I also would like to know how noticeable a difference there is from a standing start and when passing at, say, 55-65 mph.

The dealer doesn't think we'll notice that much difference in the exceleration from a stand still and actually thinks it will perform better when passing. I suppose that could be due to catching the engine in a higher performance range at some given rpm that with the 3.73.

Another way of saying all the above is, How much more "sluggish" with the (short body) Envoy with a 3.42 feel versus a 3.73 from a stop sign/light?

All of the above assumes that there is nothing being towed.

Thanks in advance.

dondimarie · October 2003

I have a 2003 Trailblazer that has been in service on 18 separate occasions in the past year. I have filed a complaint with the Better Business Bureau and am considering taking other action as well. Has anyone else out there had these types of problems?

tblazed · October 2003

I have 3.42 in my '02 TB I think the drivability is fine. Very good lowend from a stop throttle response after getting the PCM updates last Feb. Mine will get a good 22 mpg at 65-75 mph highway driving, my friends with 3.73 has never done better than 20.5. I think the 3.73 might yield a bit better MPG in-town though because it is a little easier to get the mass moving. With the 3.42 gears, passing in 2nd is good all the way from 45-48 to a little over 90 mph so you can easily blow past the slower traffic!

quickdtoo · October 2003

I've got the 3.73, best mpg has been an actual 23.6 @ 65-70 mph for a little over 300 miles, round trip, no wind either way, a few hills on I5. I get 20-22 mpg up the Columbia river gorge on SR14 on frequent trips @55-60 mph, lots of good hills and some full throttle passing slower traffic. 14-15 mpg around town, very little hwy in that. I tow frequently so the 3.42 was not an acceptable option. Have the most recent pcm updates done. hth, tim

ross1962_99 · October 2003

I got 19 MPG on a 400 mile trip driving it hard. We're talking 80+ when I could do it. Some pretty big hills too. Also had a Yakima Rocket Box on the roof. Not bad, I think. This is with the 3.73 rear end gears.

Buick Rainier, Chevy TrailBlazer, GMC Envoy

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