Buick Rainier, Chevy TrailBlazer, GMC Envoy

mharry · January 2004

I like it. I pulled the roof racks and mine is already level, cause I'm carrying 300 lbs of equipment in the back. I was thinking Eibach, because they lower the front and rear the same amount, hoping it will still be level. I do have the running boards though and I'm sure at that point they're gonna look pretty stupid. Ebay here I come!

01_hoe · January 2004

I put the Hotchkis suspension package which included the rear stabilizer bar and front bushings on my '03Envoy. Although I had no real looseness yet on the Envoy, the front end felt much tighter immediately. Handles much better than stock.

01_hoe · January 2004

Regarding the Eibach springs, read on another forum that users felt that they were junk. I was thinking of them myself, until I read their threads. The Eibach users were going to the ones made by Ground Force. FWIW.

tmac8 · January 2004

I own a company that manufactures N.F.P.A. pneumatic actuators (National Fluid Power Association). A high quality, 100% "made in America" product by Americans. If you are "old school" you'll know where I'm coming from. Anyway, just wanted to toot my horn a little. Not many of us left. BTW, I do own a 2002 Envoy.
My apologies if I strayed too far off the path.

glenski01 · January 2004

Question for KRAM18 or anyone that can answer, PLEASE! Kram your posted pic of your Trailblazer is one of the sharpest I have seen. I realize the tires are aftermarket, are the wheels? If so what brand/style? Did you have to lift for clearence or is everything else stock? I plan on some offroading, do your tire rub much? What brand grill guard do you have? I plan on purchasing a new TB or Envoy, but only if I can upgrade the looks. I am a little concerned, I have had 3 Nissan Pathfinders, no rattles no warranty issues, read mixed reviews on TB/Envoy, but like looks of TrailBl and have $3500 on gm credit card rebate to use, so thinking of going GM.

hillfla · January 2004

Watch out! I too read my manual and bought 20" blades for my front wipers on my 2003 Envoy. Well guess what? The ones that are on there are actually 22"! Guess there's a typo in the manual. Went to Auto Zone and their computer states 22" for the front. I bought Bosch blades (replaced the whole thing rather than just the wiper) and have been very happy with them. No skipping or chattering to date!

previousamigo · January 2004

If you want to see modified TBs, check out this site. There are a few for the mud...
http://www.cardomain.com/member_pages/search_results.pl?make=Chev- rolet&model=Trailblazer

kram18 · January 2004

Thanks for the positive comments on my truck, I am very happy with how she came out. The tires are aftermarket 265x75x16 Good Year MT/R's, the wheels are the factory 16" that came with my LS. I didn't have to lift the truck (as a matter of fact I had the tires on the truck before I had the new Japanese lift coils installed the coils lifted it 2" in the front and 1.5" in the rear) but I needed to add a 1.5" wheel spacer to push the tire out so it wouldn't hit the upper control arm (either needed to add a spacer or get a new set of rims with a different offset.). I decided to lift it with those coils not due to rubbing but to make more room for the bigger tires to improve ground clearence (went from the ~8.3" factory to close to 10".). My tires didn't rub at all before the lift, and after the lift they most certainly haven't come close to rubbing, even under total compression of the coil with the wheel turned. The grill guard is a Waag one piece brush guard. Let em know if you have any other questions,
-Mark

cameokid · January 2004

I have actually been in an airplane at 10,000 ft when this happened! (not fun)

Unfortunately, product management pressures are the same in every industry of our greedy world. Perhaps the GM executives and quality managers would like to unknowingly beta test some medical equipment...

ross1962_99 · January 2004

What's wrong with "Made in China"? It's wrong on many levels, but you seem to have taken that to mean everything made outside the U.S.
Chinese made products are inferior to those made in most other industrialized Asian nations. They're about where Japan was in the 50's, quality-wise. Their socio-economic system produces low quality products for all the obvious reasons. If you have kids, you have doubtless seen the countless toys that don't work right out of the box on Christmas morning. It's all Chinese junk.
And as far as Chinese people go, of course they're made just fine. :-)

ficuss · January 2004

"Unfortunately, product management pressures are the same in every industry of our greedy world. Perhaps the GM executives and quality managers would like to unknowingly beta test some medical equipment... "
At least it would get the PETA people off the backs of medical researchers who now have to conduct tests on animals.

ross1962, That's is exactly what they said in the 60's about Japanese cars, look where they are now. The electronics industry is manufacturing many of the products you use now in southeast Asia. You shouldn't equate lower paid employees with low quality products. They can work for $2.00 per day and be considered well off. I don't condone shipping our work overseas, but WE have no control over that. But we can't demand cheaper "things" (Wal Mart) and higher pay to make them HERE.
Why did Pres. W's brother Neil feel he had to go to China to manufacture his electronics? Couldn't he have set up in Texas and gotten better quality? TBLAZED knows electronics, he could have helped Neil. I think we will have to accept that there will no longer be many things genuinely MADE IN U.S.A.

watchdog2 · January 2004

Greetings,
I read a post back on Dec.27,2003 indicating that they have euro tail lights installed on their black envoy. Compared to the OEM tail lights do you like them and do they resemble the trailblazer tail lights?

If you have a pic please post. Thanks

tblazed · January 2004

Neil forgot to consult with me first. But then again, Billy Carter and Roger Clinton forgot to consult with me, too! BTW re: "W"- that's pronounced "Dub-ya".

Within 15 miles of my house here, we have Texas Instruments, Nokia, NEC, Hitachi, Raytheon, among others, manufacturing electronics daily. Plus the GM assembly plant in Arlington about 20 miles from here that employs about 3,000 people, who probably don't mind too much where the parts come from, assembling those parts from all over the world to build Chevy Tahoes, Cadillac Escalades, and GMC Yukons. When Delphi (GM) and Visteon (Ford) switch over to manufacturing electrical car parts in China, then you will start seeing Made in China on various parts in "American" vehicles. So much for those "UK" built headlights on my Trailblazer!

malibu99 · January 2004

Hello everyone

Can someone point me to the TSB for the front end noise issue? I have the clunking loose sound and want to see if teh dealer still covers it. I am out of warranty but hoping they fix it for nothing. If they dont does anybody know how much this repair will run?

watchdog2 · January 2004

Greetings,
I have a 2003 Envoy Sle that was purchased and manufactured Jan.'2003.

Well, as of yesterday I was experiencing a shuddering or rattle like sound once driving over small bumps or uneven pavement. It was determined once taken to the GMC service department that both the right and left stabilizer links were broken. That's right broken.. I was informed that several other Envoys has been brought in experiencing the same problem. Now, they have been replaced with new ones that do not even resemble the original ones. Per the service writer....Good thing still under warranty....
Sorry, for the long post hopefully the info will assist others...

01_hoe · January 2004

I have them on my '03 Envoy. Will try to post a pic.

leopardmech · January 2004

Yes kpp you are correct Canada does have an Army small as it may be. I can confirm this because they are who writes my paychecks.
As for your comments on about fuel consumption I am getting similar #s to you while in 4wd up here in Barrie it definitely sucks the fuel.

"Check the model they use in your military for windchill. You should find that it is the same as ours (I think we have an army somewhere?).here you go."

Later Leopardmech

tmac8 · January 2004

Watchdog2... I'll post the pic again tomorrow. (I need my son to show me how again.) BTW, received the 2004 Performance Products mag. today...no headers yet. Has anyone heard good, bad, or indifferent about the Denso iridium spark plugs?

tblazed · January 2004

Go back to the message I posted

tblazed Dec 21, 2003 11:23am

These pics are of N7DON's Envoy. These are the only aftermarket Envoy tail lights I have seen so far.

tblazed · January 2004

After researching these, I decided they aren't worth 3X the price of good ol' ACDelco Double Platinum plugs. I am sure the iridiums will "spark" fine and do the job. But all it takes is a single spark to ignite the fuel/air mix, and as long as the plugs don't misfire, there should be little if any difference in performance or longevity. Some reports will compare before and after and state a power gain, but all I read failed to state whether they were comparing "new" stock plugs to the iridiums. Sometimes a little power difference can be measured when brand-new plugs are first installed because it takes a little less voltage to jump the gap. The ignition system doesn't have to build up spark voltage quite as long (talking micro- or milliseconds in time here), resulting in a slight increase in spark timing, until the computer compensates, and/or the plugs wear in.

kpp14 · January 2004

Well, well, as you can all see there is more than one Triplet owner North of the border!
leopardmech, of course we have an army somewhere (and welcome aboard). Actually I think there might be more armor in the Hummer section of this board though? I thought eventually someone might chime in. I was at a hockey game in Barrie a couple weeks ago. Barrie could definitely taken on Buffalo for the most snow. There is so much snow piled up you cant see traffic around the drifts when making a turn! I never saw any pavement the whole time I was there. I bet your in 4hi most of the time. My Envoy groans a bit (in 4hi) from the front end if you really crank it over. It also tends to plow to the outside of the corner as well if you push it. Not a problem though.

watchdog2 · January 2004

Thanks for the pics of the Euro Tail lights . They look real good on the vehicle , I hope the same will be true on my Blue Envoy.

Also, I noticed the euro -lights do not appear to fit snuggly to the body like the original tail lights. What is done to eliminate possible water or other elements from getting in between the gaps? Please advice. Thanks

n7don · February 2004

It appears all of the Envoy euro-style taillights are made by the same company. When researching I found a website stating it was KB but can't find the link now.

watchdog2, the fit to the body is on par with the OE units and the actual bulb cavity is sealed. You take the 3 bulb assembly out of the OE unit and install in the euro unit.... about 15 mins. for both sides.

They can be disassembled for painting as 01_hoe has done. The match between the black on the euro unit and the black trim on the Envoy isn't perfect but acceptable. I haven't decided yet whether to paint to match the vehicle. They're ok as is and it's not a reversible process.

rye78 · February 2004

Hey everyone. I seem to be having the same problem with the front end noise as malibu99 and watchdog2. When driving over small bumps the suspension seems to rattle. I first thought the spare tire was loose but I checked it and it was fine. My noise seems to be coming from the front and the rear. I am a bit worried as my 2002 Trailblazer has just gone over the warranty miles. So does anyonje know if this is a common problem? And if I need to fix this myself, what type of $$$ am I looking at? Also, is there any info out there about this being a common problem so that I can show my moron dealer mechanic that doesn't like to listen to me at all? I hope someone can help me out. Thanks

cameokid · February 2004

http://pc.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/2003/1218/sony_06.wmv

indianadave · February 2004

Our Trailblazer has an annoying feature of turning on the daytime running lights as soon as you turn the key to start the truck before the engine is started. It puts an incredible strain on the battery. You can turn off the drl's manually but that always seems to be a forgotten task pre-start. Once you turn them off they should stay off indefinitely. The way its setup now every time you start the truck you have to turn them off.
Thanks

tblazed · February 2004

I think you need to save that picture in a smaller size, like 800X600 or 640X480 before you upload it to your host.

BTW those Envoy tail lights are known as "Altezza" on eBay..

tblazed · February 2004

Before you turn the key from OFF, pull up the parking brake handle one click. That will keep the headlights OFF when you are starting the engine. I go through this routine every day to keep the headlights off when I start it in the garage. Otherwise the automatic headlights come on. Then I back out of the garage, wait about 20 seconds for the light sensor to respond, the radio display will go brighter when the auto-headlight system turns OFF, and then I fully disengage the park brake.

You'd think GM would have set it up to keep the headlights OFF until the engine is actually running. Just when you need cranking amps the most, and the headlights are on.

agenteleven · February 2004

I've got the front end noise, too, on my 2002 TB LTZ. It sounds and feels like my old Dodge Intrepid did when it had bad tie-rod end bushings.

The noise/clunking comes up through the steering wheel, as well.

I had taken it in a few months ago to have it checked out, along with some other things. The dealer said they had to order some part having to do with the steering shaft.

I haven't had time to take it back, but I aim to do so this week. I will let you know my results.

ficuss · February 2004

The "incredible strain on the battery" from the DRL's is about 2 to 4 amps. The starter draws from 80 to 250 amps depending on the viscosity of the engine oil when cold and other factors. The battery can deliver in excess of 300 amps for cranking. The additional 2 to 4 amps is insignificant and may only cause a problem if the battery is in VERY poor condition in which case it should be replaced. Besides, I thought the DRL's came on only when in drive.

elevatorguy · February 2004

What tire pressure are you guys running to get maximum all around performance? I realize that tire pressure affects acceleration, tire wear, handling, mileage, etc. I know my BFGoodrich's are rated for 35 psi max, but i usually run around 32 psi.

Thanks

indianadave · February 2004

"Before you turn the key from OFF, pull up the parking brake handle one click. That will keep the headlights OFF when you are starting the engine. I go through this routine every day to keep the headlights off when I start it in the garage. Otherwise the automatic headlights come on. Then I back out of the garage, wait about 20 seconds for the light sensor to respond, the radio display will go brighter when the auto-headlight system turns OFF, and then I fully disengage the park brake."

Neat trick. I'll give it a try and see if it makes any difference. I am starting to believe we do have a problem with the trailblazer. I'll take it in this week and have it checked.

"You'd think GM would have set it up to keep the headlights OFF until the engine is actually running. Just when you need cranking amps the most, and the headlights are on."

I agree completely. It makes no sense to me.

Thanks

tblazed · February 2004

Actually the DRL lighting does stay off until you move the shifter out of "P". I believe what indianadave is talking about is the automatic headlights coming on when you first turn the key, before the engine is started, if the ambient lighting is low enough to turn on the normal low beam lights.
BTW in DRL mode the low beams are running 70% duty cycle. These are 55W rated lamps (X2). In DRL mode they draw about 6A. At 100% "full on" they draw about 8.5 Amps (at 13 Volts). If the battery voltage drops down to 10-11 V because of the temperature, that current drain would be about 10A. If you are in a borderline battery charge state situation from sitting a few days in 0° temps, that 10A could make the difference between starting or not.

jay_24 · February 2004

I have a 2003 Tahoe and a 2001 Subaru Outback. (alomost had a trailblazer...) both have DRL and on the subie I leave the headlights on all the time since they auto shut-off. Both started fine this past week after 85 hours of below zero (0F)temps. The rest of the week was never above 10F degrees. (about 180 hours below 10F degrees) So my opinion is... not an issue.

--Jay

cwalker29 · February 2004

When will the tb & envoy be refreshed? any thoughts on styling, performance, powetrain? I know I have heard that the V8's will have DOD. what about the 6's? Is this a good time to buy?

tblazed · February 2004

Probably not an issue like you said, 99.9% of the time. These triplets do have a certain continuous parasitic drain however, that can slowly drain the battery over time and leave you with not quite enough cranking amps to start it. I have had that happen one time. It clicked and the lights went real dim when I tried to start it.

Another thing to consider is the inrush current of the headlights. Every time they turn on from a cold start, the inrush current is about 10X the normal running current. That lasts only a fraction of a second, but that inrush current can shorten the life of the bulbs, ( don't most bulbs burn out when you first turn them on?) and my point here is, why even have the lights on in the first place while cranking the engine? The computer could be programmed to NOT turn on the automatic headlights until the engine is actually running.

scottc454 · February 2004

Probably not an issue like you said, 99.9% of the time.

Why worry about that .1%?

I can think of millions of more important things to worry about than inrush currents, bulb life,
and what not. Do you honestly think there will be a time when you can't start your truck because the lights turned on too soon?

cmack4 · February 2004

Hi all, it's been a while since I last posted, but I thought I'd drop in and let everyone know that my 2002 Bravada is still running like a champ after 35K miles. Last problem I had was with the wiper motor which was replaced over the summer due to "stuttering". After I got rid of the few minor quirks with the Bravada, it has been absolutely flawless! Actually, I've only been driving it regularly as of recently, since I have been riding my motorcycle all summer and most of fall. Now that winter is here though, it is good to return home to a familiar friend. The Bravada still handles snow better than any other vehicle I've ever driven!

tblazed · February 2004

"Do you honestly think there will be a time when you can't start your truck because the lights turned on too soon?"

I think the one time I had it happen possibly could have been caused, at least in part, by the headlights coming on first. I usually pause between on and start to let the fuel pump run a second or two. When it failed to crank (headlights on), I put a 10A charger on the batt for less than 10 min and was then able to get the TB started. It took very little charge to get enough back to crank it and start. Hard to say exactly. But definitely a borderline situation on the state of charge of the battery that time anyway.

This discussion started out when I mentioned pulling up the park brake handle a click before start to keep the headlights off during cranking. No big deal. Do it or don't. It costs "0" to do this. My concern, in my case, and the reason I do it, is the headlights unnecessarily coming on in the daytime, every day, sometimes several times a day, when I am in the garage. Just unnecessary wear on the bulbs, that are are going to turn off within a half-minute when I pull out. At $10-20 ea. for bulbs, depending whether you go stock or a premium bulb like Silverstars, I prefer to keep the bulb life available for when I need it - at night.

indianadave · February 2004

"Do you honestly think there will be a time when you can't start your truck because the lights turned on too soon? "

Yes scott I do. I believe I'm in that 0.1% that tblazed is talking about. The thread "re: lights on when cranking..." is a continuation of the thread "daytime running lights help needed here". Scroll up and get the entire story.
In short, I think I've got a problem with my trailblazer. I came to this forum seeking advice, as most 0.1%er's have done in the past. These forums are a great resource.
Thanks to everyone for their help. I'll let you know what happened at the dealer.

scottc454 · February 2004

I got the entire story. You didn't mention there was a problem starting the vehicle. Then you said that the DRL's start automatically. They don't start until you're in gear. Allright, enough on semantics - if the truck has a problem starting, it's probably time for a new battery.

It's not GM's fault because they didn't program it to wait until the engine is running to turn on whatever lights come on. If they did that, it would merely delay the inevitable (and annoy those of us who like the lights when finding the truck in a parking lot at night)

I came to this forum seeking advice

My advice is to get that battery checked out :^)

ross1962_99 · February 2004

I think the fuzzy logic that went into the DRL on switch is that they figured you would always have your parking brake on when you start your car. I always have the brake on on when the car is parked, even when it's on level ground. Just habit living in California I guess.

ross1962_99 · February 2004

I had heard that the V8 would be DOD as well, but I really hope it's just an option. I certainly wouldn't want it.

indianadave · February 2004

Sounds logical ross. We don't use the parking brake here much. Lots of level ground.It's only used on occasion.
I think when the warranty passes I'll modify the parking brake circuit with a switch to kill the pre-start headlights.

In short the tech. manager everything is working fine. He agreed that I should use the parking brake to eliminate pre-start drl's. Thanks

ficuss · February 2004

is not a factor in the DRL's coming on while starting. They do not come on until you shift out of park. I have been in the electronics field for 35 yrs. and have never heard of rush current being applied to a resistive load such as a bulb. If that were the case, the bulbs would indeed burn out upon turn on, as you would get much more than 12 volts across the filament for a short time. It may apply to a compressor or other motorized device, but I doubt it applies to light bulbs. I think most halogen bulb failures can be traced to improper handling during installation. The tripletts seemed to have a high failure rate for headlights early on. The complaints about bulbs have died down lately. Perhaps someone told the line worker to wear rubber gloves while installing the bulbs. Either that or the OEM bulbs were defective to start with. I don't recall seeing many "one headlight out" cars lately. Most DRL equipped cars I see have both on.
also, describing normal battery drain as "parasitic drain" may be confusing to some. All newer cars will have a minute battery current drain when the car is not running. This is by design, the clock and other devices must be kept on. Parasitic drain would imply something other than that which was designed into the car. If you live near the ocean, salt spray may cause a small current to flow between battery terminals. If your car has a parasitic drain on the battery, it should be investigated.

cparise1 · February 2004

Never had a negative impact from drl's in any of gm's vehicles. Indianadave, hope you get your .1% problem fixed.

BTW, I was once told-and maybe ficuss or tblazed can confirm or debunk this as a myth-that setting your parking brake regularly extends the disk brake pistons and keeps them from rusting. Its plenty flat here in SE Wisconsin but I always set the parking brake out of habit and in hopes that I am doing a good thing for the disk brakes.

Ready to be debunked...
Chris

quickdtoo · February 2004

The parking brake is mechanical, no hydraulics involved, per factory svc manual. Using it regularly would certainly help prevent the actuator and cables from rusting/corroding/freezing up and no longer working properly.

elevatorguy · February 2004

quickdtoo is correct. The parking brake doesn't actuate the rear calipers, as you would expect. The parking brake assembly uses shoes and the inside of the rotor is like a small drum.

Todd

zeen · February 2004

I have only a couple of months left on my 36 month lease. I'm turning it in and will probably buy a smaller SUV that will be easier to fit in my garage and will get better gas mileage. However, the Envoy has been largely trouble free and, as it approaches 34k miles, it has not even the slightest rattle or squeak. I have the SLE. I have heard that the loaded models had a number of problems. I guess the simplicity of the base model was an advantage.
One humorous anecdote; When we first got the Envoy, there was a rattling sound in the roof near the storage compartment. The dealer tried 3 times to fix it. I took the compartment off and wedged a tennis ball up there and the rattle stopped. The ball has been in the roof now for almost 3 years and maybe someday, someone repairing or salvaging the vehicle will discover it and wonder.

aldan93 · February 2004

I live in the southtowns of Buffalo, you are correct about having more snow than Buffalo they didn't get wacked this year, But I got you beat, you know its bad when you snowblowing a path in your back yard so your dog can take a dump!!! I have 2 feet in the backyard and four foot drifts in my front yard, Yesterday and Today, scratch today are the only days I have been out of A4WD, I post a pic with my TB tomorrow or so, were getting wacked again with snow!!!! It rained today about 2" poured!!!! now the ground is frozen with snow sticking again!!!! If anyone has any questions about TB's in snow just ask!!! Its by far the best vehicle I have ever owned!!! PAST TRUCKS--> Ford Exploder, Dodge Dakota

Buick Rainier, Chevy TrailBlazer, GMC Envoy

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