Buick Rainier, Chevy TrailBlazer, GMC Envoy

ducatist4 · June 2001

Iukstu, why did you get a check from Olds? Did it pertain to the recall? Please feel us in. Thank you.

We just took our Bravada on a 1000 mile weekend excursion towing 2200 pounds of trailer and motorcycles, four adults and one child, and 150 pounds of camping and fishing gear. Towing in third of course we got 9 miles to the gallon. BUT I drive fast, about 75 mph, and the winds out hear in South Dakota are strong. On the flat land it pulled easy, better than my old tahoe, more quiet and smooth. Minimal wind noise.

In the hills it pulled nicely. We enjoy it more every day.

iukstu · June 2001

ducatist4...Yes the check was due to the recall. It was a check for $100 as a way of saying "I'm sorry for your inconvenience". I thought it was a nice added bonus to the other things that they are giving. We also took our Bravada on an extended weekend trip last weekend and were pleased with it. It didn't pass a lot of gas stations, but that was expected. We received many looks and comments about the vehicle. People really seem to like the looks of it. It was a pain when the front passenger seat belt locked up several hundred miles from home, but it eventually let go. If I had to ride the rest of the way home in the back seat...well...that would have been another story. I am concerned about the oil usage and intend to keep an eye on it. I have never had to add oil between oil changes before. I'm taking it in this week and will see what they say about it.

Hope you receive a check also....

axlrose · June 2001

I ve been reading this board and it is really influencing my desicion to NOT buy the TB? Is there anything good about them?? I love their looks but am scared to buy a lemon. HELP

fievel · June 2001

I too have been reading this board, and several others. Read the Jeep Grand Cherokee board and you will also see problems, and this vehicle has been out in its present form since the 99 model year. I don't know what the future brings with regard to problems on the new GM SUV's, but if it is as good as my 88 S-15 Jimmy i've had since 1991, I will be satisfied. I have had small fit and finish annoyances, but nothing mechanically major. I must be the exception because Consumer Reports had nothing good to say about that generation of Blazers and Jimmys. I probably should consider a Japanese SUV, but those either are too small or don't ride as nicely as the Envoy or JGC, and the ride seems to be very important to my wife. So far, the Envoy is my first choice. My local dealer got an Envoy in this week, and the first thing I noticed was the top windshield rubber molding was coming out. Someone mentioned this in an earlier post, and it must be a problem that they all have as the Trailblazer at the Chevy dealer was suffering from the same problem. If those are the only kind of problems that I have with the truck, I won't complain.

lurker01 · June 2001

Well, I test drove an Envoy today finally. The dealer would only let me put about 1 mile on it since I had already said I was not looking to buy today. I guess I should have kept my mouth shut. Oh well. I actually told him that I was waiting for some incentives to kick in. He said that there would not be any this year and probably not any until late next year. I doubt that is true, but what do you think?
I am looking for $2000 cash or 0-0.9% apr before I buy.

The other issue I have is with the option packages. I like the items offered in the premium towing pkg vs the pro tow and off road pkg. Mainly the air suspension and 6 disc CD. The rain sensing wipers and polished wheels are nice too. I have no use for the travel notes recorder.
However, what I don't like is the lack of underbody shields and the required 4.1 axel ratio.
I would prefer to get the 3.73 ratio and add the shields to the premium pkg.
If I add the CD and air susp. to the pro tow/off road, the price is only $70 below the premium pkg. So, if I give up rain sensing wipers and polished wheels, I get the shields and save $70. Seems like a bad deal.
Does anyone have the rain sensing wipers? What are they worth to you?
What do you think the chances are that they will adjust the option pkgs to allow for this later this year?

Am I worried about nothing when it comes to the 4.1 axel? I don't plan to tow much more than a pop top camper and am concerned the 4.1 axel will hurt gas mileage. Does anyone have the 4.1? What kind of gas mileage do you get?

As to the shield package, I have it on my '96 Jimmy and feel it protects me from flying rocks as well as rough roads. I don't take my truck off roading much but I do wander down some hairy two tracks in my pursuit of trout from time to time.

Finally, in the topic of steering, I was amazed at how easy the truck was to steer. It felt like a Buick. I am used to the more 'sport' steering of my Jimmy. The Envoy was even lighter than my Dad's bonneville. Very 'luxury' feeling. Not sure if I like it or not. But I LOVE the turning radius. The thing practically piroettes! Way better than the '95-'01 Jimmys. I think is is even better than my '91 S-10 was...

Thanks for any advice.

-John.

dindak · June 2001

Buy a Trailblazer!

They are awesome trucks! I test drove one last week and they are just about the best midsize SUV one the road today. Ya, there have been a couple of first year bugs.. nothing serious though.

hardhawk · June 2001

I ordered a new Envoy on May 16th. I seem to recall seeing in one of the old posts a toll free number to call to get a scheduled build date. Can anyone refer me to that post or post the number again? Thanks.

fletch45 · June 2001

The customer service # for GMC is 800-462-8782. If you call, you will need to have your order # (Mine was a "6 letter" order number for a Trailblazer).
The number I posted before was for Chevy, and was a diffrent number.
jim f

envoyelroy · June 2001

hardhawk, careful with the recall word around here... just kidding. Good choice on the Envoy, as you can tell from my previous posts I think it's a great SUV. Let us know when you get yours and how you like it after the first few weeks.

axlrose, remember a lot of what you read on these Edmunds boards for any vehicle has to do with what is wrong with the auto. Collect all the info you can, take that wonderful TB inline 6 out for an extended test drive and decide for yourself. Sure there are lemons out there but the model itself is not one.

darda1 · June 2001

I recently test drove a Bravada and Trailblazer,
has anyone noticed the excessive tire noise?

mfullmer · June 2001

Since I believe I was first to notice the mushy brake problem I thought I would comment on the fix. Contrary to previous quotes "mushy brakes" have nothing to do with 4 wheel disk or disk/drum combinations. The proper brake feel should not feel mushy. I was comparing my Bravada brakes to my 2001 Cadillac Seville STS (4 wheel disks) that I picked up two weeks earlier.

I took mine back to the dealer and, sure enough just as I suspected, there was air in the lines. They bled the brake lines and topped off the fluid and now the brakes feel fine.

Regarding Lurker's question about rainsense wipers - I don't believe anyone should have them yet. The top end package that also includes the chrome wheels is not available yet, according to my mother (who owns GM dealerships in CA). They are scheduled to begin producing that option group when they begin producing the 2WD with Traction Control (as far as the Bravada is concerned).

jrsces · June 2001

Hi,
We just picked up our Envoy last Friday. So far everything has been smooth. The ride and features are wonderful. This vehicle will replace a 91 Jimmy. I have been doing the research and comparing different models and the Envoy was the best selection in my mind.
As a follow-up to #1297 the rain sense wipers and chrome wheels are out on the Envoy.

svegliando · June 2001

I've not seen this posted but am wondering if anyone else has encountered this. It's been less than a week and the Service 4WD light has come on three times while driving. One day while driving in light rain and in 2HI, the transfer case indicator flashed over A4WD, went to being solid over 4HI and then solid over 4HI and 4LO. Given that I was driving about 45 mph and felt no slippage, I manually set the transfer case to A4WD which set that indicator light. However, the Service 4WD light remained on. I'm scheduled to have the dealer check it in a few days, but was wondering if anyone else has experienced this.

ducatist4 · June 2001

We have the rain sense wipers on our 2001 aurora, and out of all the options(toys) on our Aurora and Bravada, these are the least useful. If you leave them in the on position all the time, than your headlamps stay on all the time. If you take the headlights off of auto and leave the rain sense wipers on than on the aurora the headlamps suggested warning stays on. Sorry, in short not worth the money. But the rest of these trucks sure is.

pbshann · June 2001

I test drove a TrailBlazer that had the same problem. When I went to leave the parking lot of the dealership I told the salesman the service 4wd light was on and he talked to the manager who said it was ok to drive as long as we kept it in 2lo. Hope you didn't buy the same truck! LOL! Never asked what the fix was but I do know that truck was sold. By the way this is from the same dealer that may have initiated the suspension recall. They had someone test driving a TB and the wheel fell off, which is why they may have been so quick and encompassing in the recall!

mfullmer · June 2001

I also have the rainsense in my '01 Sevill STS and it was on the Buick Park Avenue Ultra (huge, huge car!!!) that my dealer gave me while I was waiting to take delivery of my Bravada (while it sat there waiting for parts). My feelings are this: When you ARE using them, they are very handy. You don't have to constantly fuss with the intermittent cycle. When it is not raining it is somewhat bothersome. Like Ducatist stated, the lights stay on constantly. Overall I think it is a good idea and if they had been producing that package when I wanted my Bravada, I surely would have gotten them.

pontfan · June 2001

I live on long island & just drove to & from florida & along the way I did not see one TB, Envoy, or Bravada but I did count over 25 new Explores including two clay county sheriff 2002 explorers. Do you think the recall scared people away or is it slow production because it's a new vehicle.
I even checked A GMC dealer in jacksonville & a chevy dealer in orlando & neither have any in stock & thats the same with dealers on long island

Karen_S · June 2001

There has been some interest expressed for a GMT 360 Platform owners club. Because the Edmunds.com club folders are constructed by make/model, encompassing all three (Trailblazer, Envoy, Bravada) was a bit of a challenge, but hopefully you will like the solution.

Chevy Trailblazer Owners

GMC Envoy Owners

Oldsmobile Bravada Owners

In each club folder there is a discussion titled "GMT 360 Platform". This is one discussion that is linked to each club.

Please stop by and introduce yourself in Meet the Members and let me know how I can help build your club.

I have linked this discussion into those club folders, but it will always reside here in SUVs.

Looking forward to meeting everyone!

KarenS
Host
Owner's Clubs

rpageau · June 2001

rpageau · June 2001

None of us wants to get a lemon, and that is most likely the reason there are lemon laws in most states. You seem predisposed to not buying a TB, so I will not try to change your mind. However, your post does raise a couple of questions.

1. Is your concern with the platform, or the TB version of the platform?

2. What in the world did you read on this board that made you ask the question "Is there ANYTHING good about them??" That seems like like a rather extreme conclusion to draw from reading this board. I hope you are not relying too heavily on the people that stop by the forum to fire a quick salvo for effect, and are never heard from again.

rpageau · June 2001

fletch.....I got some grape juice on my favorite white polo, and was wondering if you had any ideas on how to get it out?

9t9wu8 · June 2001

I have the rainsensing wipers ... luv 'em. You click once to intermittant and they wipe when needed.

I also have the 4.10's. It appears the fuel economy will be pretty much the same as our '98 Jimmy SLT with 3.42 gears got.

Also have the polished wheels, they look way better than the other 2 ... don't know why GMC doesn't just do a painted version of the same wheel.

fletch45 · June 2001

Go to the store and buy a gallon of grape juice, preferrably the same brand. Pour the entire gallon into a two gallon container. Now place your white polo in the container, making sure that it is COMPLETELY immersed. Allow the polo to soak for one hour, then carefully wring it out and place it in your dryer. Set dryer to "delicates", and allow to dry completely.

If you followed the instructions correctly, the original stain should no longer be noticable.

Good luck...glad to help
jim f

doc35 · June 2001

Please don't hate me for starting the whole Martha Stewart thing, I had NO idea it would take off like this...sheeesh

Anyway, I was also wondering if you had any ideas on reusing the recalled control arm brackets?...Perhaps as nifty bookends with a nice Gold paint and lacquer finish.....

Sorry, couldn't resist...............

Kirk

I am really in rare form here.

hardhawk · June 2001

Thanks Fletch for the toll free number. I called and got the "target date" for my new Envoy to be built. I live in SE KS. How long will it take after it is built to get to my eagerly waiting hands? As for all the people stressing out over the recall, I can remember (as the detailer for the local Chrysler dealer when I was in high school) when the dealership was delivered a car that had a Dodge Aspen front end and badging on one side and a Plymouth Volare rear end and badging on the other side! The MSO said it was a Dodge so the factory sent a new rear end and badging for the Plymouth side. What if that happened on the GMT 360 platform line? Would we have an Entrailvada???? Sounds like some sort of road kill to me.

lurker01 · June 2001

So, you got the premium and tow pkg.
Can you answer a few quick questions?

1. Do the rain sense wipers force the lights to be on all the time? I'm not sure I understand how this works.

2. Did they include the underbody shields on that package and just not list them? It really bugs me that they don't seem to be available with that package.

3. What do you think of the air suspension? I don't plan to tow anything big, but the things I have read lead me to belive the air susp. allows you to take corners faster and have a smoother ride. Also, the compressor is a nice bonus. I do like gadgets...

For that matter, if any one else has the air suspension, let me know what you think about it.

thanks.

-John.

mfullmer · June 2001

The lights are on all the time when the rainsense wipers are activated. You see, there isn't an actual setting for "auto". When you turn the wipers on to the intermittent setting, they are on automatic. What would be the slower setting for intermittent, is the "more rain build-up" setting on the rainsense, what would be the faster setting on the intermittent, is the the "less rain build-up" setting on the rainsense. As in ALL of these vehicles, when the wiper lever is anywhere accept "off", the lights come on. Supposedly the wipers are supposed to do a single wipe whenever the car is turned on and the wipers are in auto mode, as a reminder, butI haven't noticed this on my STS - just one more thing to note when I take it in for it's first service.

I have the air suspension on my Bravada and I really like it. The only annoying thing is people asking what that "hissing" sound is every so often. It sounds very similar (although noticably quieter) to how a big rig sounds as it is sitting next to you at a light and it's air brakes relieve the pressure. As far as ride quality, it is definitely geared toward someone who wants a luxury SUV ride and not for someone who wants an SUV with a more truck-like ride. While not "boulevard-y", it is very "soft" - in a good way. I'm not sure how one would drive, however, without the added stability of the SmartTrak. If you don't get the AWD, I would definitely wait until the traction control is available.

I'm not sure how "9t9" got his other than they must be spec'ing them different in Canada. After seeing his post I called my mother. After checking she found a notice from May 18, 2001 stating that they will begin producing the "Luxury and Convenience" package models on August 13, 2001. Maybe that was USA specific.

lurker01 · June 2001

I think you might be refering to the package that includes the DVD entertainment system. This is not available yet but will be later this summer.
I am refering to the 1SH package AKA Premium & Professional Towing that includes the rain sense wipers and air, but no shields. According to GM Buypower, this is available now and some of the local dealers actually have this on their lots right now.

Thanks for the info on the air suspension. I'm am not sure what you are refering to about the traction control not being available. My understanding is that is only for the 2WD version and therefore is not available yet because they are only making 4WD unit right now.
I realize the SmartTrac on the Bravada differs from the AutoTrac on the Envoy, but do you think the SmartTrac is really that much better? Is it worth the loss of true 4x4 capability?
Also, do you get lower gas mileage with the AWD Bravada vs an Envoy in 2WD mode?

thanks for the info.

-John.

hambone7 · June 2001

Potential air suspension purchasers may want to consider reading the Car and Driver issue where they compare the three sibling GM SUVs. The article states that the air suspension provides a ride that, which smooth, could make some occupants motion sick. Just a consideration...go to www.caranddriver.com to find the article.

roadrunner70 · June 2001

DOES ANYONE KNOW IF YOU CAN GET THE 3.42 RATIO WITH LIMITED SLIP AND TRACTION CONTROL ON AN ST ENVOY? SOUNDS LIKE YOU MUST TAKE THE 4.10.

FYI, PLENTY OF INVENTORY BOTH TB AND ENVOYS IN SOUTH FLORIDA. DOESN'T SEEM LIKE THEY ARE SELLING FAST. I SEE MANY MORE HIGHLANDERS ON THE ROAD.

THANKS.

alease · June 2001

I have called GMC and my build week is 6-11. The dealership has told me it takes about 7 days after that date to get it in. I can't wait and am trying to not get my hopes up on when it is going to actually arrive. I live in Va, so hopefully it won't take long. How has everyone's experience been?
Thanks

anjin_nav · June 2001

iukstu, the seat belts will lock in every seating position except the driver's when you pull them to their full travel. This is a feature to allow child safety seats without requiring an extra clip. To solve the problem, unlatch the seat belt and let it travel back to its resting position. You can then wear the belt normally. To prevent the problem in the future, try latching the belt without first extending it completely. Once you drive the truck for a while, you'll get used to it.

optimus_25 · June 2001

Hello. Can someone tell me what type of fuel(octane) is required on these vehicles?

boat10 · June 2001

SEEMS LIKE WE HAVE A "DODGE" MAN AMOUNG US. (LOOK AT HIS BIO) AND HERE HE IS BADMOUTHING THE GM PRODUCTS, BUT IN THE SAME BREATH SAYS HE DRIVES AN ENVOY, HUM!!!!!! I WONDER IF HE KNOWS WHAT HE DRIVES?

alease · June 2001

From what I understand, these engines are designed to run on regular unleaded (87 octane)

kjwood · June 2001

I ordered a Trailblazer at the end of March, and was given a 5/21 build date. I was also told it would take 7-8 days after production to deliver it. Several weeks into the recall, I was told the build date was moved to 6/4. That lasted about a month, when I was told the build date was moved back to 5/21. Needless to say, it is not here yet.

9t9wu8 · June 2001

This is all Canadian info so it may be different for you.

The rain sense wipers are part of the base SLT package.

The 1SE option package includes:
 Bose sound system
 Load leveling suspension
 Polished Aluminum Wheels

The stand alone options are:
 sunroof
 running boards
 6 disk in dash changer (deletes the cassette)
 4.10 rear axle ratio (no cost option)

1. I don't think the rain sense wipers affect the headlights ... the daytime running lights come on as soon as the shifter is moved out of park ... they can be defeated by pressing the courtesy light override 4 times.

2. I'm not able to find any sort of an "off-road" package in the Envoy ordering info or Canadian brochure ... I don't think there are any plates but I'll look tonight.

3. I like the load leveling (I tow an inboard ski boat) and the on board compressor (it come with a long hose and a great gauge and inflation accessories) component of the air suspension. Under normal driving conditions and even during spirited on and off ramp maneuvers the handling is far better than our 98 Jimmy SLT with the smooth ride suspension was and the ride is excellent. Maybe the coils are a little better, I don't know, but it was a trade-off I was prepared to make.

And to some following posts:
Yes, they use regular fuel.
The SmartTrak in the Bravada is exactly the same as the automatic setting on the Autotrac. I specifically asked Kay Jarboe the question in the Bravada forum.

rpageau · June 2001

Is the reason so many people are special ordering these vehicles because availability is low to non-existent? Or is it just that "I want mine to be exactly what I want"? Believe me, I've ordered several cars in the past, and there is nothing like that anticipation of getting "your" vehicle. However, here in Florida the dealers I see are bursting at the seems with the triplets. When I picked up my TB after the recall in April, the dealer had accumulated 14 of these things in the back lot. It would seem some good deals could be made on existing stock, and there usually is something that is "close enough". Or are they just not available in all parts of the country?

lurker01 · June 2001

I think where we differ is I'm looking at the options for the Envoy and you are looking at Bravada options. Also, things might be different north of the border...

On the issue of SmartTrac VS AutoTrac, here is what they are saying in 4WD & AWD systems explained:
Post #250: "Smart Track is an AWD system in that you can't have 2wd, and you can't have a low-range. Basically it's a center viscous coupling that tries to attain a 50/50 split. Auto-trac is 2wd RWD til slippage then it applies some power to the front. You can put it in 2wd mode, and also have a 4wd lo range as well."

If someone has information that contradicts this, let me know.

-John.

ducatist4 · June 2001

I am certain rain sense wipers affect the "headlights" and indirectly the day time "driving lights," When the rain sense control is turned "on" your "headlights" automatically turn on, assuming that it is rainy conditions. Several states in the US now legally require headlights to be on when it is raining, and I assume that is why it is engineered in such a manner. When the wipers are "off" your daytime driving lights come on.

fievel · June 2001

Here in Northern California the dealers seem to have few of these vehicles. My home town dealerships just got the Envoy and TB this week, and only one each. I have never seen any on the road, and I do a fair amount of driving. The only way to get one here seems to be to order. That will likely change in the coming months.

hardhawk · June 2001

Here in SE KS, the Envoys are pretty non-existant on the dealer lots. To date, I have only seen 3 of them. Even if there had been a big selection, I usually order anyway because I want my vehicle exactly the way I like it. If my dealer had such a vehicle, I would have bought it. However, I tend to load up a new vehicle because I keep them a long time. Better to get exactly what you want if you are going to have it for 6-8 years, even if you have to wait for it to be built. Also, I find you get a better deal on an ordered unit the vast majority of the time.

drew_ · June 2001

No, it's the same up here. AutoTrac is basically part-time 4WD with an auto mode. Upon slippage of the rear wheels, power is automatically transfered to the front wheels. It is a reactive system. SmartTrac is basically the same except that it doesn't have a low range and there is power flowing to all four wheels at all times. It is more of a proactive system than AutoTrac, but it is still not a true permanent AWD system. Both AutoTrac and SmartTrac systems have their pros and cons. SmartTrac is more for people who want AWD for driving in foul weather on roads.

Kay Jarboe is correct in that both systems respond in a similar fashion. However mechnically, both are different.

Drew
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lgspence · June 2001

On my Envoy, the daytime driving lights (only) come on whether or not the wipers are set to delay (rain sense) or not. The headlights do not come on in daylight unless manually turned on. It doesn't matter if the wipers are on or not.

optimus_25 · June 2001

thanks for the info. i know i read it sometime back but just wanna make sure

riskaker11 · June 2001

Question for Envoy owners. How do you find the driver seat on a long drive. I test drove both the SLT and SLE and couldn't get comfy. I couldn't pin it down - maybe the seats did not provide enough support (I am 6'). The seats were not unfortable but not as nice as the Yukon.

I am tring to convince myself to purchase the Envoy. Better looking, more toys and better mpg than the Yukon.

hambone7 · June 2001

That's "Prophet" not "Profit" of Doom.

Teo,
Are you just visiting from the Impala area or did you buy an SUV?

mfullmer · June 2001

LGSpence - The wiper/headlights SHOULD work this way:

In daylight: With the vehicle running and the parking brake off the daytime running lights should be on (I am assuming you have a US spec vehicle.). If you turn your windshield wipers on (to any setting) after about the 45 seconds all vehicle lights (including the dash lights) should come on just as if it were dark. If you have a small green indicator light (I have one on the Bravada), next to the light switch, that should glow. Once the wipers are switched off they should go back to just the DRLs after about 45 seconds.

If yours do not do this then there is a malfunction with your vehicle and you need to have it taken care of by your dealer. Your owners manual should indicate this also.

patxlb · June 2001

We have an Envoy SLT and find the seats very comfortable. My hubby is 6'6" and he has no complaints on the seat comfort. His only complaint is the seat belt position. With the belt coming from the seat itself rather than the pillar, it pulls down on his shoulder.

mfullmer · June 2001

I do not feel that the lack of a manually (mechanical or electrical) switched transfer case (as on the AWD Bravada) is not as good as that on the Envoy/TB. With the Bravada, the rear wheels are driven, 100%, unless slippage is detected whereas power is transferred to whichever wheel(s) have the most traction.

I had a Blazer with the electronic transfer case when I lived in California and made many (nearly every weekend) trips to the Tahoe area all year long. My sister had a Bravada with pretty much the same system as todays(although less refined) than the current system. With the Blazer I always used 4HI when any amount of snow or ice was on the ground. In fact, the only time I ever switched it to 4LO was soon after getting the vehicle just to try it out. I would often drive my sisters Bravada also. Quite frankly, I never noticed a difference, other than not having to push a switch. Several times I would arrive and/or wake up to and have to back out of 6-8 inches of snow on the driveway. Both vehicles performed equally well. The thing I liked about the Bravada is that it actually SAVED fuel because it switched back and forth automatically. I'm sure there were several times that I used the 4HI in the Blazer around town during the winter when I didn't need to.

I live in the Atlanta area now and used the 4HI on the Blazer several times whether it was ice, snow or rain. Now that I have the Bravada I have noticed several times, while it was storming, that the car is much more stable (most likely meaning that it is transfering power when I would normally not have switched to 4HI in the Blazer).

I think of it this way, the real reason we go for 4 or all wheel drive is traction during snow/ice/rain conditions. I don't even remember the last time I heard of anyone actually taking their SUV "4-wheeling". That is the only case where I would say you definitely would want the switchable system.

Buick Rainier, Chevy TrailBlazer, GMC Envoy

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