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Mazda MPV

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Comments

  • rutger3rutger3 Member Posts: 361
    It only took Mazda 4 years to realize that people want a passenger side power lock switch! Just my 2 cents, but is there really a big market for awd minivans? Seems they never did well in the past. Unless you do real off roading or live along the snow belt or are an Alaskan hunting guide I just don't get it. It adds weight, reduces already lousy mileage and adds thousands to the cost. In 99% of the cases, fwd is fine. Speaking of mileage my 01 LX got 21.5 mpg on a 1000 mile trip,the a/c on and 4 people with luggage. Does this seem about right? I really wish the mfg's would do something about improving gas mileage. I'm tired of handing out $22-24 every week to the gas stations.
  • javadocjavadoc Member Posts: 1,167
    The dashboard shifter was very good. It's in the perfect place if you have your arm resting on the armrest. Much better than (I can't believe I'm saying it...) the MPV's shifter arrangement. :)

    BrianV, yes, rear disks do look nicer. ;)

    Here's a couple of more teasers on the 2004:

    - Front and rear A/C... standard on the LX and ES
    - Multi-reflector Projector-type headlights, ES
    - Razor Blue ext color, avail in beige or gray interior.

    - Motivation will be provided by the 3.0L 200HP V6 and 5speed Auto.
    - No AWD.
  • acedriveracedriver Member Posts: 131
    So, let me get this straight ... The ES trim gets standard items of fog lights, Power sliders and 6-CD changer in dash and yet the price increase is only $100 ????

    For 2003 ES, the Power sliders were $800 option, 6-CD was a $450 option and the fog lights were a $250 option !!

    So, on the 2004 ES you would get $1300 worth of (2003) options for $100 ??!!
  • bsvollerbsvoller Member Posts: 528
    If you consider that 95% of SUV's never leave the pavement, why bother with awd/4wd on those vehicles either ? It just "adds weight, reduces already lousy mileage and adds thousands to the cost"..., to use your words.

    People want awd for the image, and it looks like the manufacturers are starting to move away from pure SUV's, so they're trying mini-vans as part of the "cross-over" segment. The reality is, SUV's aren't all they're cracked up to be, and enough people have figured that out to shift the market some.

    The most significant differences between your typical SUV and a comparably-sized mini-van are off-road ability and tow capacity. Of course, you trade ride quality and in most cases gas mileage for those, but I think you follow my point here.

    I'm with you. If you don't need the tow-capacity and are honest with yourself about going off-road (especially off-trail, which is even rarer), then a mini-van makes more sense, rationally speaking, than a SUV for a lot of people. Trouble is, most people are very sensitive to image.

    Of course, awd/4wd is useful for more things than just off-roading, depending on the system. Those of us that live in the snow belt and/or the mountains would love to have an awd mini-van, because it best fits our (real) needs.

    Particularly a nimble one, whose awd is laid out for performance/handling ! I'd love to have an MPV with an Audi-style awd system (but a Subaru-style system would do nicely, too :) )

    -brianV
  • javadocjavadoc Member Posts: 1,167
    Where do you get your $100 figure in your Post #6323? I don't think I've seen any concrete pricing numbers yet. Dish, if you've got 'em!
  • tbcreativetbcreative Member Posts: 357
    I saw this on the Mazda sight, on the intro page for the MPV:

    http://www.mazdausa.com/MusaWeb/images/vehicles/img_veh_ezbuilder- .gif

    It looks like a little slice of the re-styled front end. Also there's an Acrobat download for '04 pricing.
  • bottgersbottgers Member Posts: 2,030
    We just returned from our trip to CA. We were loaded with 4 people and a fairly large amount of luggage, no car top carrier or trailer.

    I'll mention the highway (I-80) between here (Cheyenne, WY) and our destination (Fairfield) was rarely flat and straight, which hugely effected our fuel economy. The speed limit of 75 MPH doesn't help either. Having the cruise set at 80 MPH, the worst mileage we got was 21.9, and the best was 24.5. I could see this van getting 27-28 MPG on straight, flat highways traveling at a lower speed.

    The next thing I noticed is this Duratec 3.0 is a rev happy engine. The least little bit of upgrade would cause it to kick down into 4th gear. Heaven forbid I would've been towing anything! I don't mind revvy engines, but I prefer torque over HP. I'd like to see Mazda (or Ford) develop a new engine for the MPV that makes more torque, at least 250 ft. lbs., preferably 300. This would allow the van to pull up those inclines without constantly having to downshift. We plan on getting a car top carrier, and we also have a small utility trailer we will be towing when we move. That should be interesting.

    The comfort of the van during the trip was outstanding. The front and rear air worked great. The kids really enjoyed the DVD player, although we found out it's very picky about the condition of the DVD's. If there is so much as a single smudge mark or finger print on the playing side of a DVD, it won't play properly. The van could stand to be a bit less suseptable to wind noise, but it's liveable. Also, the driver's seat is a bit too firm. I think the seat in our recently returned leased Intrepid was a little more comfortable. Other than that, this was by far the best vehicle we've owned for taking long trips.
  • javadocjavadoc Member Posts: 1,167
    You're right Tb... here's the link to the pricing... Thx to LazyFox for the link, btw. :-)

    2004 Pricing Sheet
  • steveeaststeveeast Member Posts: 158
    Ordered ES on 1st April, took delivery 12th August; about 19 weeks in all. Original dealer estimate was 12-16 weeks; they gave us a loaner after 16 weeks. $200 over invoice. Excellent buying experience (apart from the wait) at Luther Mazda in the Twin Cities, MN. Even the finance guy was quick and painless.

    26 miles so far. Can't say I love it (after all, it is a minivan), but if it's reliable it looks like it'll be pretty much perfect for our needs.

    Steve.
  • dinu01dinu01 Member Posts: 2,586
    of the 2004 MPV?

    Dinu
  • javadocjavadoc Member Posts: 1,167
    ... I'm constantly searching for them. I've seen a morphed, PShopped idea of what it might look like, on the web, but nothing concrete, and no one at mazda 'has' any, or so they say. Uh-huh...

    It's only a matter of time before one is caught on film, or card.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    $1900 more for the ES for power doors, fog lights, CD changer, and chrome door handles. Good value? Hmmm... are fog lights, a CD changer, and chrome door handles worth $1100? For $555 you can get (on the LX Plus) the CD changer PLUS a stereo upgrade, 17" alloys and tires, spoiler, compass/outside temperature/auto dimming mirror, and leather steering wheel.

    About $1200 more on the LX Plus compared to the '03 LX, but with rear A/C ($595 on the '03 LX). But not with rear heat, that's extra. Does Mazda realize that winters in most of the U.S. and Canada get pretty cold?

    The biggest ripoff IMO is $910 for the LX Plus, which adds features most everyone will want: privacy glass, bodyside moldings, mats, and fog lights. Notice also that every LX package has LX Plus as a pre-requisite. So for all intents and purposes they increased the price of the LX by $1200.

    Also, did you notice that they are charging $200 extra for "pearl" paint colors in '04?

    Meanwhile, '03 LXes are going locally for under $19k. If my lease didn't have several months to go, I'd get a '03 now rather than waiting for the '04s. The changes to the '04s aren't that compelling to me. And I like the looks of the '03 just fine.
  • goldkeygoldkey Member Posts: 36
    I must confess, I always sneared at people who drive minivans and especially SUVs, and my wife just plain hates these kinds of vehicles. But with family growing, in-laws visiting, I decided to have an open mind about that. When I took a loot at this segmet, I was amazed at MPV's value and characteristics. Last time I was on a market for a new car, best I could buy for under 20 grand was a run-of-the-mill Japanese sedan with 4 cylinders. I was totally sold on MPV - so much car for so little money. And size is perfect. Just the other day, I had to park it in tight spot, and had easier time doing it than a full size sedan, which actually had to abandon the spot to me :-). Anyway, another charm is feature pack on the cheappest trim. I picked LX-SV with rear AC as the only option, and it has no compromises on essentials. That's what I hate about Toyotas. And yeah, did I mention power train? It is V6 and 5speed smooth like butter auto trany. Going for cheapest trim didn't mean I had to drive 3-cylinder 150HP-enigne powered vehicle. In fact I think with higher trims MPV loses much of its value appeal. I picked the cheapest trim not as an act of self-deprivation, but just because I liked what I was getting at that price.
    When I brougth MPV home, my wife gave me fits and put in dog house, until I had to drive her, our two kids, and her parents for a 80 miles trip to the beach. Since that she warmed up to it and admitted that it was not a bad choice and very good deal after all.
  • goldkeygoldkey Member Posts: 36
    One more thing. I just took a look at Edmunds recommendations for minivans, and MPV was not a the list, which had 10 spots to it, mind you. MPV didn't even make #10. Out of what, total 12 contenders? Come on. The list included vans that make 10-15 MPG or cost 30K or powered by 180HP engines for the weight 5OOO pounds, or so big they have to be parked in special spots to fit. Glad I didn't use the list when making my choice.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
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  • mazda_guymazda_guy Member Posts: 183
    I am not sure about what list are you talking about? If about the top 9 minvans with the worst resale value then you are right MPV is not there and I am really glad it is not there :-)

    mazda guy
  • lazyfoxlazyfox Member Posts: 90
    MPV has 9.2, Odyssey only 8.6, Sienna 9.1

    I know that sales volume of MPVs are lower than those of other minivans, so it might be a bit skewed, however consumers who drive that car every day would probably have better insight than pros who just test the car for few days. Also consumers can capture day to day usability as pros might take points up or down for features not really necessary or vital to daily use.
  • javadocjavadoc Member Posts: 1,167
    And here I thought that quantity = quality... <runs>
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Today's local paper had an article on "cool" minivans, noting that automakers were trying to improve the coolness factor of their vans. They had some drivers compare the Sienna, Odyssey, Montana, Quest, and Freestar. A Ford spokesman was gushing about the feature on the Freestar that was the coolest: a back seat that flips back so people can sit in it while watching soccer games etc. out the tailgate. Since the MPV has had that feature since the 2000 model year, does that make the MPV way cooler than the Freestar?

    I also got my first close-up look at a '04 Quest today. It doesn't look as bad up close than in pictures, especially in tan with a tan interior. But something about the interior screamed "cheap" at me, the near-horizontal instrument cluster was artistic but not easy to read, the back seats were rock-hard and not very adjustable, and in general I was wondering whether I'd want to pay $28k for a van with a cloth interior and only one power slider.
  • mjvchicagomjvchicago Member Posts: 149
    I've been longing for an MPV for well over 2 years now. Like how it looks, handles, performs (especially with the new 3.0 liter) etc. and like its size vs other minivans out there. Now that the 2004s are close to arriving, I am in a financial position to afford the van.

    However, I really like the current model and am not that interested in the 2004. I'm thinking that once the 2004s arrive, the 2003s left on the lots will get some kind of discount. Now, I went on carsdirect and saw that I could get a well-optioned MPV for approx. $21500 through carsdirect which is about $2-3k lower than MSRP. Wondering how much deeper a discount would go once the 2004s arrive on the lot. My guess is not that much, so I may as well buy now and take advantage of the 0% but I could be wrong.

    I would love some insight from you all.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Here in the Midwest you should be able to do much better than $2-3000 off MSRP, including the rebate. Both LX and ES models are routinely advertised in the Twin Cities for at least $4000 off MSRP. If you can get $3000 off plus the rebate or 0%, that's a great deal. You might be able to get a little better discount in a few weeks, when the '04s hit the lots, but who knows? Also, you run the risk of not finding the model you want because they will be in shorter supply.
  • audia8qaudia8q Member Posts: 3,138
    here in the northeast we will be long out of 2003 before the 2004's arrive. I can't recall a year where so many dealers have so little inventory at this point of the year. I will be out of most product before the 2004's arrive. This kinda puts a kink in the year end fire sale prices....our prices have spiked upward recently due to the lack of inventory.
    I expect to have a 30 day window of no minivans in stock....I am not expecting 2004 to show up until the end of october at the earliest, assuming no glitches....
  • dinu01dinu01 Member Posts: 2,586
    So that will be little or no M6s, no more PROs or P5s and no MPVs through the fall?

    Dinu
  • mbs7mbs7 Member Posts: 28
    I'm pretty much in the same situation as mjvchicago and would also like to hear anyone else's opinion on it.

    Also, last Saturday we went down the the Mazda dealer and looked at the MPVs to determine how big they are. We haven't looked at lots of other minivans, but how does the size compare to other minis? I've read the many professional reviews bagging on the smallness of the MPV, but for practical purposes is it really that much smaller? I'd like to hear from current owners. Our third child is on the way and we foresee us having 4-5 children. Will the MPV handle this? Would one of the bigger minis be any better?

    The other thing is that we weren't too impressed with the rear seat of the MPV. My wife and I are both short people and even for us the seating position back there seemed unnatural. Have you found the rear seats to be uncomfortable on longer trips?

    Mike
  • dwsmhadwsmha Member Posts: 35
    We were sold on the MPV for features, reliability from Consumer Reports, and price, even before we really started test-driving. We have 1 child, maybe a 2nd, maybe not. It's good when we are visiting family, since all of us (child/mom/dad/grandma/grandpa) can fit in the van for a day-trip. If you're going to have 5 kids, invest in a school bus, not a minivan. (runs away) But seriously, some minivans seat 8, you may want to look at those instead of the MPV. That back seat is good for the few day-trips we take when we must have people sitting back there. Otherwise, it's cargo space.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    To answer your question about how the MPV compares in size to the other minis, it's smaller than all of them except the Caravan and soon-to-be-extinct Voyager. Chevy used to offer a short-wheelbase Venture also, but I don't know if they still do. Those are roughly the same size as the MPV, but they don't have the deep well behind the back seat like the MPV (at least, not until early next year). I used to own a Caravan and now have a Grand Caravan, and frankly I'm looking seriously at down-sizing next time and going with the MPV because it's big enough for 99% of my needs, without all the size and weight.
  • mjvchicagomjvchicago Member Posts: 149
    Glad to see someone else thinking about the MPV. So I've talked to dealers and gotten internet pricing on the MPV, but no one is going much lower than invoice. Is that the best I can expect at this point? One sales rep alluded to the 0% continuing on past September. Thoughts?
  • rdworski1rdworski1 Member Posts: 20
    Hope this question is appropriate as I am new to Board. Without deducting the $2000 rebate, how much above or below Invoice should I be paying to be getting a good deal on an MPV in the Washington - Baltimore area? Should I offer Invoice or a few hundred less?

    Thank you.
  • javadocjavadoc Member Posts: 1,167
    I'd expect to pay no more than invoice, before rebates, on any 2003 MPV. Dealers need to move out their inventory before the 2004s arrive in a few months. Sure, there will be some shortages, as Rich mentioned, but I'd still expect to pay invoice. (Sorry Rich! :) )
  • lazyfoxlazyfox Member Posts: 90
    With 3 kids you still be fine I think. We have only 2 and it's enough for us. It works to take our friends with their daughter when we go out. That was what my wife wanted, to have something we can carpool with friends and family and have some extra cargo space. With 4 or 5 kids I would turn to some full size vans.
  • wheelz4wheelz4 Member Posts: 569
    With 3 kids, it would be nice if Mazda would split their rear-folding seat like the new Sienna.
    (1/3-2/3) so you could sit one kid back there but still have the remaining space left over for cargo. I know there are a few changes coming for 2004....haven't heard if a split rear seat is one of them, but it's something Mazda needs to address.
  • javadocjavadoc Member Posts: 1,167
    I seriously doubt that the rear seat will be a 60/40 arrangement like the 2004 Sienna. I think that would be a bigger model change than the new sheetmetal that we already know about... although it would be a very nice improvement.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Everyone, the Town Hall wide chat is tonight.

    Our theme for forget tonight's member-to-member chat is Vans! (I know Java, you just wanted trivia and nothing else.... maybe Kirstie will have a few questions to toss in).

    The chat time is 6-7pm PT/9-10pm ET. Pop in for live chat with other members. Hope you can join us!

    Here's the link.

    Steve, Host
  • audia8qaudia8q Member Posts: 3,138
    yeah, our mazda inventory is the lowest it has ever been this time of year....Mazda rushed the 2004 into production to fill the Tribute gap. This was easy becasue there were zero changes for 04. Mazda even lowered everyone projections this month due to the lack of product.

    It's great that I'm going into the next model year without "left-overs" but it has hurt our sales with people looking for year end fire sale prices...example, I was offered a price on a 2003 Protege this morning that I would normally accept but I passed on the deal based on inventory availability....I am also seeing quite a few consumers who placed deposits at other dealers who couldnt find the cars...
  • dinu01dinu01 Member Posts: 2,586
    Hopefully once the new product comes in, new 2004 M6s, new 2004/2005 M3s, the redesigned MPV (right?), more RX-8s, etc more people will come in the showrooms. I bet the RX-8 is attracting some traffic.

    Do you have any pics of what the 04 MPV will look like? I can't seem to find any info on it...

    Dinu
  • dinu01dinu01 Member Posts: 2,586
    Dinu
  • maltbmaltb Member Posts: 3,572
    E-mail javadoc, I hear he knows how to get a good deal on MPVs for the next 10 days.
  • ytzytz Member Posts: 5
    The dealer is offering me today around 18K for a 03 LX (without additional options and after $2000 rebate), should I take it?
  • dinu01dinu01 Member Posts: 2,586
    18K? What's going on in the US? Is there a fire-sale on MPVs? Are they giving you the whole van or just the floor mats for 18K? :)

    Dinu
  • wheelz4wheelz4 Member Posts: 569
    Love the size of the MPV vs. Odyssey, Sienna, Quest, Grand Caravan etc. I can't understand, however, why the approx. 3800 lb MPV with 200 hp
    gets mileage ratings of 21.5 city/ 28.8 hwy versus the 4100 lb Sienna with 220?240 hp which gets 23 city/35 hwy (these figures all miles per Imperial gallon...i.e. Canadian). Even the Sienna with AWD gets 22/31. There are two things Mazda really needs to do with the MPV...It needs competitive (or even better, given it's weight advantage/horsepower deficiency) fuel economy and a split rear folding seat like the Sienna. The Sienna is too big and bloated for my liking, but the fuel economy advantage is hard to ignore, especially on long trips.
  • rutger3rutger3 Member Posts: 361
    wheelz4: You hit it right on. Mazda should do something and soon about the 'lousy' mileage their van gets,especially considering the engine is smaller and weight is less. Someone is sleeping in their engineering dept. Even my 2001 with the really small 2.5 engine gets less mileage than the much larger engines in the Sienna and Ody. This is imo a very big issue, considering our dependence on foreign oil and with gas prices rising. But Mazda is really behind the curve here.
     BTW, the split rear seat issue is probably going to be similair to the lack of a power lock switch for the passenger door which took 4 years to correct. Again, Mazda is a little slow.
  • lazyfoxlazyfox Member Posts: 90
    Yeah, that is one thing which is not so dandy about the MPV. For mostly city driving we get about 18-19MPG (on long trip it was 23-24MPG), same city mileage I get on my '99 300M.

    I guess that the mileage on the MPV is what it is due to the Ford engine, American engines are thirsty suckers (no pun intended). ;-)

    I know that each buck counts, but the difference for us, if the mileage would get better as on the Sienna would be less than $200 per year. Put it in the perspective that we blow that amount in one run to Costco, I see it not as significant anymore. ;-) Calculate in the difference between price of the MPV and Sienna, lets say $2000 and you can drive the (worse MPG) MPV for 10 years to get on the price of the (better MPG) Sienna.

    Just for fun, following picture actually makes MPV's current MPG pretty darn good. http://www5.plala.or.jp/MPVGALLERY/img20020828161834.jpg

    For the rest take a look here. ;-)
    http://www5.plala.or.jp/MPVGALLERY/kabegamikore.html
  • wheelz4wheelz4 Member Posts: 569
    lazyfox......like the "7 seater" convertible!!!

    I can see your perspective about the mpg....it's just that you're reminded about the lousier mpg everytime you fill up. I think the problem IS the Ford-designed engine......remember reading a few weeks back that Ford is redesigning their engines because of uncompetitive fuel economy.
    Anyway, until someone comes out (in North America)with a 6 seater mini-minivan/sport van (see Honda Stream/Mitsubishi Grandis/Mazda4/VW Touran/Toyota Wish), the MPV is still on our shopping list.
  • dinu01dinu01 Member Posts: 2,586
    Those MPVs are really cool!

    Think about brand recognition and better sales if Mazda would dress-up MPVs like that!

    It would almost make minivans cool!

    Dinu
  • sebr0d1esebr0d1e Member Posts: 17
    Howdy Yall! Like 2 intro myself..me'n the missus're proud new owners of '02 MPV ES..since we got it, found this here msg board..went back to start of conversation on '02s and read all way to latest msgs today (3 days..yes i have a j-o-b, but your discussions were that riveting 2 say the least)..anyways, just wanted to say, glad 2 be able to join the discussions of MPVs...u guys r so passionate about your vehicles..i like that..i'm a car nut! reading, working on (although I don't, wish i new how)...anyway..want your opinions on whether i got ripped off/not..here goes...purchased:

    '02 MVP ES: std w/ all std 02 ES stuff; no moonroof, spoiler, 6D CD changer, foglights, or DVD (want DVD tho for 6yo daughter).

    Had 11,200K miles, paid $20,860 + ttl, warrant (gold pack, extd from 3/50 > 6/100) & gap ins..total = 24331.44 at 4.1%/72mos. pmt = 385.20/mo. 1st pmt not due for 3mos.

    Good deal or bad?

    forgot to mention..no money down, no trade in either.
  • sebr0d1esebr0d1e Member Posts: 17
    wheelz4,

    actually, Sienna/Ody have Variable Valve Timing (or VVT w/ Intelligence = VVTi or sum other variation)..this, along w/ fact that engine parts probably made from different (maybe lighter, stronger or better metals, etc.) makes for better fuel efficiency = greater fuel economy (however, also more expensive to manufacture and repair, hence > cost of vehicles). MPV makes do without VVT in engine (so do Kia/Hyundai engines), so gas mpg not as good..VVT allows better breathing/operation, which means better fuel/air mixture, which means optimum mpg, more power, torque, etc.

    lazyfox,

    american engines are thirstier than others cuz design/operation/manufacture of engines aren't as advanced as foreign counterparts... y invest more money to make better engines when millions buy your crap u make 4 cheap? that wouldn't be smart biznis-wise, and despite poor ratings of american vehicles, cheap prices makem sell like flapjacks to most of us debt-riddened, hardworking types with low Fico scores (not us anymore, but fixed that) and ignorance of wheeling'n'dealing...talk about slow to change, America created the car craze (not the car itself..thx Mr. Benz 4 that) a century ago, and is still bhind tech-wise!
  • rutger3rutger3 Member Posts: 361
    ladyfox: take that $200/year over 5 years and you have $1000 more in your pocket instead of burning it. and lets not forget the interest,compouned daily at a whole 1% gives you an extra $30, enough for another fill up. better yet, over 10 years you save $2000; and over 100 years $20,000!.by then the MPV should get at least 30mpg on the highway if G.W Bush IV is president; but about 130 mpg if Al Gore tIV is pres.
  • sebr0d1esebr0d1e Member Posts: 17
    As I indicated in my initial note, since buying our '02 ES on 8/7/03, I've been sucking up the info in the MPV2000+ threads like a slurpee thru a straw (3 days of nonstop reading)...anyway, while reading the threads, noticed a while back a wish list was started on what we MPV owners would like Mazda to include, std or opt, on next model yr MPV..i'd like to get the ball rolling on that discussion again..maybe we can get a comprehensive list and submit it to Mazda somehow..anyway, here goes:

    pwr liftgate
    keyless remote starter
    remote window feature (up/down w/ fob 4 hot days!)
    passenger-side door lock control
    more power (WASHU engine plz..would even settle
      for MAZDA6 engine 4 right now)
    rvw mirror w/ compass/temperature reading (sorry..
      used to it now since buying my camry)
    split-folding 3rd row (now standard 4 MV category)
    stability control (in absence/instead of AWD 4
      now)
    optional step bars (makes access easier for small
      children/elderly despite currently low step-in
      height)
    navigation (at least an option..dashboard sure is
      big enuff)
    REDESIGN THE FRIGGIN' SHIFTER NOW! (also make the shift detents firmer..currently too easy to shift out of gear)
    trip computer, mpg reading, tire pressure monitor
    panoramic-view interior mirror (a la Windstar/new Sienna..to C who is
      telling the truth about who hit whom 1st!)
    tracks on bottom of 3rd row seat (so that when its folded in the floor
      2nd row seats can be adjusted fore/aft as needed.
    power liftgate window (Toyota started it 1st by stealing roll down
      side windows..[non-permissible content removed] for tat..'sides, Mazda started with front/side
      windows..may as well finish the rest of the windows).
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    MPV makes do without VVT in engine (so do Kia/Hyundai engines)

    Actually, even "lowly" Hyundais (or some of them) have VVT engines now. Since Hyundai shares engines with Kia, Kia should get it pretty soon too.
  • bottgersbottgers Member Posts: 2,030
    .....the 3.0 Duratec engine has, I'll live with it's 1-2 mpg disadvantage and drive it for 200K-300K miles.
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