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Mazda MPV

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Comments

  • lazyfoxlazyfox Member Posts: 90
    Just to note, that the 00, 01 models have different transmission than the 02, 03 models.
  • bsvollerbsvoller Member Posts: 528
    We just took a 4 day trip to Rocky Mountain National Park in CO while towing our '95 Coleman Rio Grande pop-up tent camper. Closed, it's 17' x 7' x not quite 4' high. Sleeps 5-7.

    The camper weighs right at 2000# fully loaded. I estimate that we had another 700# in people and gear in the van. I used a bathroom scale to measure the tongue weight at 185# - a little light, but it didn't cause an issue. We had most of the weight in the van forward of the rear wheels.

    The trailer has electric brakes operated by a standard brake controller tied to the van's brake lights. I would strongly recommend against towing a heavy trailer like ours in the mountains without trailer brakes.

    Highlights:

    -MPV: '03 LX with 4 seasons, traction control, class III hitch, brake controller. Overdrive disengaged ('D' minus overdrive). 1800 miles on the odo, so still pretty 'green'. Rear tire pressure = 40 psi cold. Fronts unchanged at 35 psi. Full-size spare for the van in the camper, just in case.

    -Power: More than adequate, if not plentiful. Keep in mind that we're operating between 5500' and 8500', so power is down 15-25% from spec. We could pass slow moving vehicles without major worries, even going up pretty steep grades.

    -Engine temp: Never moved off the mid-line. Outside temps were in the low 80's to high 70's.

    -Engine braking: Marginal, even in '3'. You will need your wheel brakes. The torque converter slip gives up a lot of engine braking. No noticeable change when the tranny attempted lock-up. Not easy to observe, it may never have locked up, I was just going by engine rpms.

    -Wheel braking: Excellent, given our load. The van is willing to stop pretty hard, especially with an assist from our trailer brakes. Note that stopping distances are still longer than normal - our combined 'rig' weighs about 6500#. But our Forester (which has strong brakes, actually) struggles to stop this trailer, even with the trailer brakes, as this trailer is right at the Forester's limits. On the other hand, the Forester is a stick, and despite a disadvantage in engine displacement, its engine braking performance far exceeds the MPV, FWIW.

    -Sway: None. We didn't have high winds, though, either.

    -Bounce: None. Some have reported "weak rear springs". I beg to differ. There was one section of road where the road bed is breaking up, causing wave form dips (a series of dips and bumps in a row). We hit those going 40mph and never bottomed out the suspension. If you're bottoming out, check your load distribution in both the van and the trailer.

    I have found that it's impossible to judge tongue weight without a scale, at least above what I can easily lift. In the van, we put our cargo organizer behind the second row, then stacked the heavier suitcases and coolers on top of it. The third row was stored flat, and covered with a light cooler, supplies, and a bike. This left us with barely a nose-up attitude - I didn't even have to re-adjust the mirrors.

    -Gas mileage: 17.3 mpg. Note that nearly all of this was under actual towing conditions - we took just one trip into town without the trailer. Quite pleased with this result.

    Sorry for the long post, but I thought folks would want the details.

    In short, the MPV performs as advertised as a tow vehicle. We're quite pleased with it, and are looking at longer cross-country trips for next season.

    -brianV
  • ltswinltswin Member Posts: 10
    Hi there,

    Well, today, we just cut a deal to get a 2003 new Mazda MPV. I have a 2 year old and one due in Feb so we needed something bigger than my 98 Camry. We shopped the usual vans (the Ody and Sienna) and there was no wiggle room so we went with the Mazda. However, after reading much about the prices over the last few weeks, I found out that I should be able to get it for only $500 over invoice. However, when I had to go out this afternoon so I left my husband to deal with it and he ended up paying $500 over what Edmunds says should be the TMV. So I guess that would be around $1000 or so over invoice. I am not too happy with it, but the salesman told him they couldn't budge off that price. We had already walked away from the dealership twice b/c of the prices they gave us and also the trade in offer. We came back and the offered more for trade in and then they took off some more money on the price. However, this time, he said he couldn't go any lower. But he (my husband) doesn't seem to be bothered with it (I am b/c I hate knowing that I might have gotten jipped...LOL). However, I will be the new owner of a 2003 white Mazda MPV with the All Sports Package, roof rack, rear a/c, side airbags with traction control. I am looking forward to it. All of your discussions helped me make the decision on the Mazda. So my name is Laura and I thank you!

    Sincerely,
    Laura
  • ajacat1ajacat1 Member Posts: 87
    Yeah, it's only two colors, but that's more than before :).
  • ajacat1ajacat1 Member Posts: 87
    Hey Laura--

    Congrats on deciding on an MPV, but...uh...have you shopped around much for it? Have you signed for it yet?

    I hate to bust stereotypes (well no I don't, actually, but I know it makes some people uncomfortable), but I would *never* let my husband negotiate for a car LOL...everything people say about women negotiating is what he's like. He's cost us serious money before and I've learned the hard way that I've got to be the mama lion here...he's real good at negotiating on bicycle-related purchases, though (he's a cyclist) and computers, but beyond that?...real estate, cars, etc...are my department.

    If there's still time, have you been to the mazdausa website and seen what cars are in other dealers' inventories? A dealership could even do a locate of a car you want (someone offered us that) and offer you a better price on it than that guy's giving you (I had one dealership like that--telling me that the MPVs were going for MSRP right now--I couldn't help but bust out laughing--other places are giving at *most* $400 over invoice, one place around here is doing 5K *under* MSRP (only on what they've got in stock) which comes out to around $700 under invoice before the 2K rebate, for the model we were looking at.

    anyway, at least you're getting an MPV out of it :)...that had better be *before* the 2K rebate, yes?

    Be strong, it's for your family's sake--stealth girl negotiators unite :)
  • javadocjavadoc Member Posts: 1,167
    Pay my way there... I'll sit in on a negotiation... I'm as brutal as they come. Take no prisoners, I say! Lay out those scurvy curr!

    Arggg!!!
  • sparkymarky74sparkymarky74 Member Posts: 6
    We just purchased a 03'MPV LX for invoice on Sat. They tried to give it to us for about $800 above but then I whipped out edmunds.com invoice price and told them this price or bye-bye. I suggest you shop around a little more. Most dealers around here(Northern NJ) are really trying to get them off the lot.
  • ltswinltswin Member Posts: 10
    Where there are no other dealerships within a 2 hour drive. I did the math myself this morning and he did pay more than I would have liked him to, but he says he is comfortable with it. They gave us around $1100 under MSRP (however, it would be more if you didn't include the destination charge in there). My husband also says they gave me more than what my car is worth, however, Blue Book says its worth $3500 on trade. My husband negotiated his Rendevous very well, and got just what he wanted. However, he did not negotiate this one as well. But he signed the papers last night. The only thing we could do at this point is if something was wrong with the van, then we could reject it. I guess I am just the forever accountant. I should have done it so of course I have a little buyer's remorse. I wish we lived in a bigger city where there were more options. However, we even searched dealerships as far as 4 hours away and we didn't find anything we liked as well (not enough options). He paid like $400 over what Edmunds said he should have paid.....ugh!

    but we will have to live with it. Being a military man, you would have thought that he would be a powerful negotiator. We know better next time...LOL

    Sincerely,
    Laura
  • tomj5tomj5 Member Posts: 209
    Good Post. I was wondering how a Coleman Camp Trailer would pull. If the MPV will tow up the Rocky Mountian park road, it will tow anywhere. That road tops at 12K feet. Do you have the 4 seasons pack and factory hitch on the car?? What kind of control did you use for the trailer breaks and how was it mounted???
    I agree on the load carrying ability of the MPV. We had our MPv packed tight only room for DW and I. It cruised at 80 and never bottomed on rough roads. Breaks were great... Tons of engine power... Mpg about 20...Best car We ever owned...
    Tj
  • ltswinltswin Member Posts: 10
    Me again, boy you all are going to get sick of me...LOL When do they recommend to get the MPV its first oil change? Anything special I need to know about or to look for when I take ownership? Thanks!

    Sincerely,
    Laura
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Lots of theories about first (and subsequent!) oil changes.

    Here's a checklist link that may help you when you pick up the new MPV. Congrats!

    Steve, Host
  • user777user777 Member Posts: 3,341
    Laura,

    How much is $400 to you when you consider that to get the van you wanted, you might have had to do some serious driving, invest an unknown addtional quantity of time and effort in research, contact and negotiation...

    Would the terms of the "phantom / ideal" sale been truely comparable? Are you sure you'd have gotten as much for your trade at another dealership?

    If there's an initial problem with your van, do you want to contemplate bringing it back to a dealership which is 2 or more hours (one way I assume) from your home? I know, you can and should be able to get your van serviced at any dealership, but, you also want to establish a relationship with a dealer close to home for warrenty services right?

    My wife and I live in a large Metro area. There came a point when we were shopping for a van (my wife was 6mo pregnant at the time with our third) when we came to an understanding...an ahhh haaa moment...we were close to over-optimizing the problem.

    Was additional effort to save x dollars worth the additional time and effort? If we ordered a van at another dealership, would it come in with exactly what we wanted? Would we have to pay for other options already installed? What if it had some miles on it?

    And our 4.5yr old and 18mo old needed a break from our focus on the purchase.

    There was an advantage going with a deal that fell into the category of good, from a dealer that treated us really well, that had the car in the color with the stuff we wanted (in fact our two top choices which we could compare side by side) and with only 5mi on the ODO.

    For a little time after our purchase, I too wondered, did we do well negotiating? In the end, I came to trust even more our research and consider that the deal was optimized quite sufficiently.

    Now that our newest has arrived, the details of our vehicle purchase are so unimportant.

    February will be here in the blink of an eye.
    Congrads and Regards.
  • bsvollerbsvoller Member Posts: 528
    Yes, we have the 4 seasons package, as noted under "highlights" in my post #6428. We use a Draw-Tite class III hitch (2" receiver) and a Draw-Tite "Activator I" brake controller. The brake controller is mounted under the dash to the left of the steering wheel, where you can reach it in an emergency to hit the trailer brakes manually without braking the van (sway control, but we prolly won't ever need it).

    We got a great deal on the hitch install via the dealer, but if I had to do it over, I'd go with a class III hidden hitch instead for better aesthetics.

    -brianV

    Note that we never got anywhere close to 12k' above sea level either. You'd be down a full 36% on rated power up there (128 hp peak).
  • ltswinltswin Member Posts: 10
    It came in today and they prepped it today and we have it home tonight! It rides good, smells good and I love it!

    Laura
  • ajacat1ajacat1 Member Posts: 87
    Ya know, despite my love of the hunt (and I think javadoc's similar hunting instincts :)), the possibly extra $$ paid will fade away, and the wonderfulness of your MPV will stay with you much longer :). Sometimes where you live really dictates what you pay, and as user said, sometimes you reach the point of diminishing returns. How much is sweating it out really worth? (of course that's what they're counting on, but that's life :))

    Enjoy your van!
  • lsinclsinc Member Posts: 270
    Congrats! I bought my MPV in April and I can't say enough about it. I already have just under 8,000 miles on it. It had 10 miles on it when we bought it. I drive alot. Argh!

    Don't sweat the extra money. We really got hosed on our trade in. I had a '95 Mercury Villager that I traded. Book was about $3k and I think they gave me $1,800. But on the flip side, we walked out of the dealership with our MPV for $100 over dealer invoice. We bought it under the "S" plan.

    Enjoy your new MPV.

    Leslie

    P.S. What color is it?
  • ltswinltswin Member Posts: 10
    I had to take my 2 year old daughter to preschool this morning and I drove back the long way just so I could drive it some more...LOL

    I am not sweating the extra money anymore. You guys put it all in perspective for me. Also, if my husband isn't worried about it (and he is pretty tight with money), then why should I? (laugh). Thanks everyone.

    By the way, I have always wondered - what is S-plan pricing? Is that like if you work for a specific company you get a discount with certain manufacturers?

    Thanks
    Laura
  • daron1daron1 Member Posts: 18
    Has anyone seen a photo of the 2004? I did get the list of changes, both from an earlier post & directly from the Mazda website. Also, the website has had the 2004 prices listed for a few weeks...but still no photo(that I can find)! Do the dealerships have any pics around yet? Depending on the incentive situation & the available stock, I'll either get a leftover 2003 in a few weeks, or wait for the 2004. I have a feeling the new front end will look more like the 6, than the outgoing Protege. Thanks for any help.
  • lazyfoxlazyfox Member Posts: 90
    IMHO the front end would be similar to what the 2003 Demio looks like now.
    http://www.demio.mazda.co.jp/style.html
  • nwngnwng Member Posts: 663
    looks like the JP version of the MPV got a HID option as well as 5.1 surround sound.

    I think instead of competing with other bland minivans, mazda should make the next MPV a "premium" people mover. "Premium" does not mean offering it in a HMS Sienna size, but offer things like: really good handling, aforementioned 5.1 surround, larger lcd screen, seat heaters for 4 and agressive styling, ala rx8, mazda3, plus the 6s engine
  • glideslopesglideslopes Member Posts: 431
    Congratulations. Well done. We have 17,500 miles on our 02 LX. No problems. One recall for the Fog Lights. The 17,500 miles are in Upstate, NY which has some of the worst road conditions as far as Pot Holes and Broken Pavement. Not a rattle or squeak. You will love it. It's the best value in it's class.

    Mark. : )
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    CR's October issue has a minivan comparo, and ranks the vans as follows:

    Toyota Sienna LE
    Honda Odyssey EX
    Mazda MPV ES
    Nissan Quest 3.5 SL
    Dodge Grand Caravan EX
    Chevrolet Venture
    Ford Windstar SE Sport
    Kia Sedona EX

    Not too shabby, the MPV beating the all-new Quest.
  • lumbarlumbar Member Posts: 421
    I haven't read it, but it honestly doesn't surprise me given the likes/dislikes of the CR staff Experiments in a new form like the Quest (whether you like it or not) will be lost on them while they continue to worship at the altar of the practical (i.e., Toyota). I'm glad to see the MPV did well since it's IMO the value leader of the bunch.
  • tccmn1tccmn1 Member Posts: 278
    Ok, I'm no genius, but how do you over ride the inside lights so that they are off when the doors are open? I've had this MPV for a few months now and am stumped. I tried to find it in the manual, but no luck. I know there are individual switches on the front overhead, middle overhead and rear gate....but what about the door inside lights or just shutting everything off at once?

    PS: I have 13K miles on mine and a consistent 20MPG in the city and 24 on the highway throughout. I have changed the oil every 3K and will continue to as cheap insurance since I keep my vehicles upwards of 180K miles or 8 years.
    Also, the clunking in the tranny DOES happen after warmup too!
  • javadocjavadoc Member Posts: 1,167
    was for the Demio, which is not the JDM MPV, but smaller, just so nobody gets confused (the intrepid LFox knows tho). Although, you wouldn't be too far off, imho, picturing the 2004 MPV with a nose section similar to the demio.

    FWIW, nobody is giving out 2004 MPV pictures yet, and nobody has snapped a spy photo, that I've seen. I have seen some Photoshopped pictures of what some people think it'll look like... out there on the wierd wired web.
  • crissmancrissman Member Posts: 145
    The lights will go out after about 5 min.(At least in my 2000 model). I don't think there is an immediate method, short of pulling the fuse.
  • tccmn1tccmn1 Member Posts: 278
    Yeah, I know the inside lights will go off by themselves in a while if the door is left open, but there should be a total over ride so you can have them off if you want at anytime. My OLD 90 and 95 DC's had that feature. Maybe it's not that big a deal to most people. Sometimes they have it on the dash dimmer...but not on this MPV anyway.

    Oh yeah, when I was shopping around last spring, the dealer guy told me that the headlights will shut off after about 10 minutes too. I tested this and almost drained my battery waiting for that to happen! Toyota's shut off when you open the driver door instead of a buzzer like on the MPV. I like the Toy way better. You can be sure their off and they come back on when you start the engine again. Maybe the 04 will improve on some of these little things.
  • whodewhode Member Posts: 15
    For what it's worth, I think you shouldn't sweat the deal that you got. When people quote how much they paid over invoice, it doesn't usually take into account what they got on their trade in. So, if someone else paid, say $500 over invoice, but got $1000 less than they could have for their trade, then you still made out better. Also, if there were only two Mazda dealers within 2 hours, I'd imagine that they would be less willing to go lower than for those of us with 15 dealers within 2 hours.

    I'll also echo user777's sentiments. It's possible to get too caught up in optimizing the deal (I know that's my tendency). I could spend weeks researching it, just to save a few hundred dollars, but I would have missed out on time that I could have spent with my family, etc.
  • audia8qaudia8q Member Posts: 3,138
    you know...if the mazda had the problems that the honda van had it would be in last place...Am I the only one who wonders why Honda always gets a pass from CR???

    If every honda built this year had a bad engine CR would have an excuse and still rate them near the top of the list....Don't get me wrong, the Honda van is nice but based on edmunds real people results they are less reliable than the MPV.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    CR doesn't take reliability into consideration when they rank cars. That's why, for example, the Focus is their top pick in small cars even though they don't recommended it because of its substandard reliability record.

    As for why "Honda always gets a pass from CR", are you saying CR is biased towards Hondas? I hear that all the time (mostly from people who don't own Hondas), although it's usually more like "CR is biased towards Hondas and Toyotas." If you can provide some facts to back that up, I'd love to see them, otherwise let's move on. Until the '04 Sienna came along, practially all the automotive press had the Odyssey ranked as the #1 minivan. Now that the new, greatly improved Sienna is here, is it that strange that the Sienna should be #1 and the Odyssey #2? Would you expect the MPV to have jumped over the Odyssey when both haven't changed much in the past two years? Personally I think the MPV's rating by CR is pretty positive, given the Sienna, Quest, Caravan, and Sedona have all been redesigned or debuted since the current MPV design rolled out.
  • jake75jake75 Member Posts: 2
    2004 prices seem to be up substantailly - no more LX-SV either.
  • ajacat1ajacat1 Member Posts: 87
    That's *exactly* what I would wish for. A kind of mini-Quest, but better done than the Quest! Besides great handling and good hp, my main priorities would include better mpg, though. Then I could buy it with a clear conscience. At *least* both #s in the 20s. I want them to keep the side-by-slide, too. And the windows.
  • lsinclsinc Member Posts: 270
    I saw the '04 Quest but didn't get a chance to drive it. I did sit in it though and played around with all of the gadgets. First impressions are that it looks just like the '04 Sienna. I also found the price tag to be outlandish. The one I saw was priced at just under $38k. It did however have a great dash, easy to see controls and lots of cargo in the back even with the seats all in place. Honestly though, if I was going to pay that kind of money for a vehicle (when pigs fly) it wouldn't be for a minivan.

    I still really like my MPV. It has all that I need and it's been very reliable. It's also fun to drive.

    Leslie
  • audia8qaudia8q Member Posts: 3,138
    you say.."I hear that all the time (mostly from people who don't own Hondas), although it's usually more like "CR is biased towards Hondas and Toyotas." If you can provide some facts to back that up, I'd love to see them, otherwise let's move on."

    well in addition to having a mazda, ford, L/m franchises we also have an Acura franchise and quite frankly I dont see any less cars in the shop than any other dealership. Our Acura service department is tremendously profitable replacing transmissions as of late and other non-reported issues. If our Acura service department wasnt so busy fixing, so called perfect cars, I might believe they are as good as you imply.

    My first hand experience as a dealer has proven to me that nobody makes a perfect car...I think its hilarious watching the Acura owners blaming themselves for something breaking on their car. Remeber, they are perfect and they don't break unless the driver does something wrong. hahaha

    If somebody can show me the same failure rates of transmissions, power doors and roof racks on the MPV as on the Honda van then I might put the honda in the same league as the MPV.
  • glideslopesglideslopes Member Posts: 431
    quote:"My first hand experience as a dealer has proven to me that nobody makes a perfect car...I think its hilarious watching the Acura owners blaming themselves for something breaking on their car. Remeber, they are perfect and they don't break unless the driver does something wrong. hahaha"

    The nail has been hit on it's head!!!

    Mark. : )
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    If our Acura service department wasnt so busy fixing, so called perfect cars, I might believe they are as good as you imply.

    I didn't imply anything of the sort. My post had absolutely nothing to do with how many Acuras you have in your service department and how reliable (or not) Acuras are. We were chatting about a supposed CR bias in how they rank cars. And that has nothing to do with how reliable they are. If I were you, I'd try to understand CR's methodology a little better, because I suspect many of the people who come into your showroom read it.

    But I agree with you that nobody makes a perfect car--just look at the 3000+ posts in the MPV Problems board as one example. Lots of problems discussed in the Honda and Toyota boards, too. Yes, even the supposedly ultra-reliable Toyotas have their share of problems (sludge, bad trannies in the new Siennas, etc.).
  • subearusubearu Member Posts: 3,613
    a lot of the posts in the MPV problems board is just chit-chat...some problems yes, but there is a lot of just plain ol' talk going on in there.

    -Brian
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    But I wonder how many prospective MPV buyers bother to sift through all 3000+ posts to see all the "chit-chat", and how many see the number of posts compared to, say, the number of posts in the Caravan/Voyager Problems board, and say, "Oh my gosh, what a troublesome van the MPV must be!" :-( Even if that doesn't happen, all the "chit-chat" does make it hard to get useful infomation about the (few) problems the MPV does have.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Play with Search This Discussion sometime - it'll find problem posts fast for those times when you don't want any chit-chat at all!

    Steve, Host
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    What would I search on to screen out the chit-chat posts from all problem posts? Is there a special keyword that will do that?
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    lol, you want to talk all the fun out of it?

    Steve, Host
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    That's why I go to the Edmunds.com "Problem" boards--to have lots of fun! Why would I go there to, say, find out about the problem history of a vehicle I'm thinking about buying, or get help on a vehicle I own? :-P
  • subearusubearu Member Posts: 3,613
    The Subaru threads I browse here are similar, lots of chit-chat, a friendly group. When problems arise, most come to the one in trouble and try to help get the problem identified and/or resolved.

    I know it's hard to wade through the thousands of posts here, but if you're going to do good research, one must read carefully, and not coming to conclusions based on post counts. I think virtually every thread here on Edmunds has gone O/T occasionally, sometimes more often than not. It's just the nature of discussion boards. :-)

    One can simply scroll to the bottom of a thread and ask a simple question abpout reliability/problems/etc. if so inclined too. ;-)

    -Brian
  • wongpreswongpres Member Posts: 422
    I'm not on this board often so I don't know if pictures of the '04 MPV have been shown yet. But
    Mazda just debuted the new MPV an hour ago at the Frankfurt auto show. Main differences are new headlights, new grille, and titanium coloured instrument panel (similar to the Mazda6).
  • wheelz4wheelz4 Member Posts: 569
    http://www.autoscoop.topcities.com/autoforum/viewtopic.php?t=2552

    Nothing groundbreaking......perhaps a touch more upscale looking......sure wish that back seat was split.
  • dinu01dinu01 Member Posts: 2,586
    I've seen pics too and while the interior is great - black sporty cloth, nice dash, the exterior lost some of its "Mazdaness" - they should have left it edgy, without rounding it off like the Windstar, Caravan, etc... Still looks ok, but the current ones w/the ES appearance package is the best looking van on the market IMO.

    Dinu
  • wheelz4wheelz4 Member Posts: 569
    The 17" wheels make a big difference too...I'd like to see pics of the new version with them.
    Don't care for the GFX ground effects though.
  • bean3422bean3422 Member Posts: 183
    All...the following link is a Ford media report about the 2004 MPV...the main deal is "rear wheel disc brakes", redesign of front, new wheels, and 7 new colors.

    Here is the link... http://media.ford.com/mazda/article_display.cfm?article_id=16113

    Dang it all...I wonder how much to retrofit the rear discs on my 2002?
  • wheelz4wheelz4 Member Posts: 569
    Have to agree with you......after looking at the '04 back to back with the '03, I definitely prefer the edgier, more youthful look of the '03.
    The '04 looks a little old-fashioned or stodgier in comparison. Maybe Mazda is trying to appeal to an older, more upscale crowd and will then give us the Mazda4 for those who want an edgier, sportier look.
    For some reason, the wheels24.co.za link below doesn't work but if you search for Mazda4 in google you can get to it that way. Also try
    http://37747.rapidforum.com/topic=102285175588

    I like the Mazda4 but hope they hide the sliding door tracks as in the MPV and tidy up the rear styling a bit.

    http://www.wheels24.co.za/Wheels24v2/ContentDisplay/w24ThirdLevel- - /0,5684,1369_1339183,00.html?NewsPath=1
  • lumbarlumbar Member Posts: 421
    I'm gonna mostly stay out of this because I have never seen an 03 MPV with the appearance package--full disclosure. But, based on what I have seen, and including the *interior* and exterior, I really find it hard to see a marked difference in "sportiness." It even appears to me that the '04s interior, combined with the front headlight arrangement make it a bit more sporty. Each to his/her own. Not sure how I feel about the 04's grill though.
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