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Comments
The camper weighs right at 2000# fully loaded. I estimate that we had another 700# in people and gear in the van. I used a bathroom scale to measure the tongue weight at 185# - a little light, but it didn't cause an issue. We had most of the weight in the van forward of the rear wheels.
The trailer has electric brakes operated by a standard brake controller tied to the van's brake lights. I would strongly recommend against towing a heavy trailer like ours in the mountains without trailer brakes.
Highlights:
-MPV: '03 LX with 4 seasons, traction control, class III hitch, brake controller. Overdrive disengaged ('D' minus overdrive). 1800 miles on the odo, so still pretty 'green'. Rear tire pressure = 40 psi cold. Fronts unchanged at 35 psi. Full-size spare for the van in the camper, just in case.
-Power: More than adequate, if not plentiful. Keep in mind that we're operating between 5500' and 8500', so power is down 15-25% from spec. We could pass slow moving vehicles without major worries, even going up pretty steep grades.
-Engine temp: Never moved off the mid-line. Outside temps were in the low 80's to high 70's.
-Engine braking: Marginal, even in '3'. You will need your wheel brakes. The torque converter slip gives up a lot of engine braking. No noticeable change when the tranny attempted lock-up. Not easy to observe, it may never have locked up, I was just going by engine rpms.
-Wheel braking: Excellent, given our load. The van is willing to stop pretty hard, especially with an assist from our trailer brakes. Note that stopping distances are still longer than normal - our combined 'rig' weighs about 6500#. But our Forester (which has strong brakes, actually) struggles to stop this trailer, even with the trailer brakes, as this trailer is right at the Forester's limits. On the other hand, the Forester is a stick, and despite a disadvantage in engine displacement, its engine braking performance far exceeds the MPV, FWIW.
-Sway: None. We didn't have high winds, though, either.
-Bounce: None. Some have reported "weak rear springs". I beg to differ. There was one section of road where the road bed is breaking up, causing wave form dips (a series of dips and bumps in a row). We hit those going 40mph and never bottomed out the suspension. If you're bottoming out, check your load distribution in both the van and the trailer.
I have found that it's impossible to judge tongue weight without a scale, at least above what I can easily lift. In the van, we put our cargo organizer behind the second row, then stacked the heavier suitcases and coolers on top of it. The third row was stored flat, and covered with a light cooler, supplies, and a bike. This left us with barely a nose-up attitude - I didn't even have to re-adjust the mirrors.
-Gas mileage: 17.3 mpg. Note that nearly all of this was under actual towing conditions - we took just one trip into town without the trailer. Quite pleased with this result.
Sorry for the long post, but I thought folks would want the details.
In short, the MPV performs as advertised as a tow vehicle. We're quite pleased with it, and are looking at longer cross-country trips for next season.
-brianV
Well, today, we just cut a deal to get a 2003 new Mazda MPV. I have a 2 year old and one due in Feb so we needed something bigger than my 98 Camry. We shopped the usual vans (the Ody and Sienna) and there was no wiggle room so we went with the Mazda. However, after reading much about the prices over the last few weeks, I found out that I should be able to get it for only $500 over invoice. However, when I had to go out this afternoon so I left my husband to deal with it and he ended up paying $500 over what Edmunds says should be the TMV. So I guess that would be around $1000 or so over invoice. I am not too happy with it, but the salesman told him they couldn't budge off that price. We had already walked away from the dealership twice b/c of the prices they gave us and also the trade in offer. We came back and the offered more for trade in and then they took off some more money on the price. However, this time, he said he couldn't go any lower. But he (my husband) doesn't seem to be bothered with it (I am b/c I hate knowing that I might have gotten jipped...LOL). However, I will be the new owner of a 2003 white Mazda MPV with the All Sports Package, roof rack, rear a/c, side airbags with traction control. I am looking forward to it. All of your discussions helped me make the decision on the Mazda. So my name is Laura and I thank you!
Sincerely,
Laura
Congrats on deciding on an MPV, but...uh...have you shopped around much for it? Have you signed for it yet?
I hate to bust stereotypes (well no I don't, actually, but I know it makes some people uncomfortable), but I would *never* let my husband negotiate for a car LOL...everything people say about women negotiating is what he's like. He's cost us serious money before and I've learned the hard way that I've got to be the mama lion here...he's real good at negotiating on bicycle-related purchases, though (he's a cyclist) and computers, but beyond that?...real estate, cars, etc...are my department.
If there's still time, have you been to the mazdausa website and seen what cars are in other dealers' inventories? A dealership could even do a locate of a car you want (someone offered us that) and offer you a better price on it than that guy's giving you (I had one dealership like that--telling me that the MPVs were going for MSRP right now--I couldn't help but bust out laughing--other places are giving at *most* $400 over invoice, one place around here is doing 5K *under* MSRP (only on what they've got in stock) which comes out to around $700 under invoice before the 2K rebate, for the model we were looking at.
anyway, at least you're getting an MPV out of it ...that had better be *before* the 2K rebate, yes?
Be strong, it's for your family's sake--stealth girl negotiators unite
Arggg!!!
but we will have to live with it. Being a military man, you would have thought that he would be a powerful negotiator. We know better next time...LOL
Sincerely,
Laura
I agree on the load carrying ability of the MPV. We had our MPv packed tight only room for DW and I. It cruised at 80 and never bottomed on rough roads. Breaks were great... Tons of engine power... Mpg about 20...Best car We ever owned...
Tj
Sincerely,
Laura
Here's a checklist link that may help you when you pick up the new MPV. Congrats!
Steve, Host
How much is $400 to you when you consider that to get the van you wanted, you might have had to do some serious driving, invest an unknown addtional quantity of time and effort in research, contact and negotiation...
Would the terms of the "phantom / ideal" sale been truely comparable? Are you sure you'd have gotten as much for your trade at another dealership?
If there's an initial problem with your van, do you want to contemplate bringing it back to a dealership which is 2 or more hours (one way I assume) from your home? I know, you can and should be able to get your van serviced at any dealership, but, you also want to establish a relationship with a dealer close to home for warrenty services right?
My wife and I live in a large Metro area. There came a point when we were shopping for a van (my wife was 6mo pregnant at the time with our third) when we came to an understanding...an ahhh haaa moment...we were close to over-optimizing the problem.
Was additional effort to save x dollars worth the additional time and effort? If we ordered a van at another dealership, would it come in with exactly what we wanted? Would we have to pay for other options already installed? What if it had some miles on it?
And our 4.5yr old and 18mo old needed a break from our focus on the purchase.
There was an advantage going with a deal that fell into the category of good, from a dealer that treated us really well, that had the car in the color with the stuff we wanted (in fact our two top choices which we could compare side by side) and with only 5mi on the ODO.
For a little time after our purchase, I too wondered, did we do well negotiating? In the end, I came to trust even more our research and consider that the deal was optimized quite sufficiently.
Now that our newest has arrived, the details of our vehicle purchase are so unimportant.
February will be here in the blink of an eye.
Congrads and Regards.
We got a great deal on the hitch install via the dealer, but if I had to do it over, I'd go with a class III hidden hitch instead for better aesthetics.
-brianV
Note that we never got anywhere close to 12k' above sea level either. You'd be down a full 36% on rated power up there (128 hp peak).
Laura
Enjoy your van!
Don't sweat the extra money. We really got hosed on our trade in. I had a '95 Mercury Villager that I traded. Book was about $3k and I think they gave me $1,800. But on the flip side, we walked out of the dealership with our MPV for $100 over dealer invoice. We bought it under the "S" plan.
Enjoy your new MPV.
Leslie
P.S. What color is it?
I am not sweating the extra money anymore. You guys put it all in perspective for me. Also, if my husband isn't worried about it (and he is pretty tight with money), then why should I? (laugh). Thanks everyone.
By the way, I have always wondered - what is S-plan pricing? Is that like if you work for a specific company you get a discount with certain manufacturers?
Thanks
Laura
http://www.demio.mazda.co.jp/style.html
I think instead of competing with other bland minivans, mazda should make the next MPV a "premium" people mover. "Premium" does not mean offering it in a HMS Sienna size, but offer things like: really good handling, aforementioned 5.1 surround, larger lcd screen, seat heaters for 4 and agressive styling, ala rx8, mazda3, plus the 6s engine
Mark. : )
Toyota Sienna LE
Honda Odyssey EX
Mazda MPV ES
Nissan Quest 3.5 SL
Dodge Grand Caravan EX
Chevrolet Venture
Ford Windstar SE Sport
Kia Sedona EX
Not too shabby, the MPV beating the all-new Quest.
PS: I have 13K miles on mine and a consistent 20MPG in the city and 24 on the highway throughout. I have changed the oil every 3K and will continue to as cheap insurance since I keep my vehicles upwards of 180K miles or 8 years.
Also, the clunking in the tranny DOES happen after warmup too!
FWIW, nobody is giving out 2004 MPV pictures yet, and nobody has snapped a spy photo, that I've seen. I have seen some Photoshopped pictures of what some people think it'll look like... out there on the wierd wired web.
Oh yeah, when I was shopping around last spring, the dealer guy told me that the headlights will shut off after about 10 minutes too. I tested this and almost drained my battery waiting for that to happen! Toyota's shut off when you open the driver door instead of a buzzer like on the MPV. I like the Toy way better. You can be sure their off and they come back on when you start the engine again. Maybe the 04 will improve on some of these little things.
I'll also echo user777's sentiments. It's possible to get too caught up in optimizing the deal (I know that's my tendency). I could spend weeks researching it, just to save a few hundred dollars, but I would have missed out on time that I could have spent with my family, etc.
If every honda built this year had a bad engine CR would have an excuse and still rate them near the top of the list....Don't get me wrong, the Honda van is nice but based on edmunds real people results they are less reliable than the MPV.
As for why "Honda always gets a pass from CR", are you saying CR is biased towards Hondas? I hear that all the time (mostly from people who don't own Hondas), although it's usually more like "CR is biased towards Hondas and Toyotas." If you can provide some facts to back that up, I'd love to see them, otherwise let's move on. Until the '04 Sienna came along, practially all the automotive press had the Odyssey ranked as the #1 minivan. Now that the new, greatly improved Sienna is here, is it that strange that the Sienna should be #1 and the Odyssey #2? Would you expect the MPV to have jumped over the Odyssey when both haven't changed much in the past two years? Personally I think the MPV's rating by CR is pretty positive, given the Sienna, Quest, Caravan, and Sedona have all been redesigned or debuted since the current MPV design rolled out.
I still really like my MPV. It has all that I need and it's been very reliable. It's also fun to drive.
Leslie
well in addition to having a mazda, ford, L/m franchises we also have an Acura franchise and quite frankly I dont see any less cars in the shop than any other dealership. Our Acura service department is tremendously profitable replacing transmissions as of late and other non-reported issues. If our Acura service department wasnt so busy fixing, so called perfect cars, I might believe they are as good as you imply.
My first hand experience as a dealer has proven to me that nobody makes a perfect car...I think its hilarious watching the Acura owners blaming themselves for something breaking on their car. Remeber, they are perfect and they don't break unless the driver does something wrong. hahaha
If somebody can show me the same failure rates of transmissions, power doors and roof racks on the MPV as on the Honda van then I might put the honda in the same league as the MPV.
The nail has been hit on it's head!!!
Mark. : )
I didn't imply anything of the sort. My post had absolutely nothing to do with how many Acuras you have in your service department and how reliable (or not) Acuras are. We were chatting about a supposed CR bias in how they rank cars. And that has nothing to do with how reliable they are. If I were you, I'd try to understand CR's methodology a little better, because I suspect many of the people who come into your showroom read it.
But I agree with you that nobody makes a perfect car--just look at the 3000+ posts in the MPV Problems board as one example. Lots of problems discussed in the Honda and Toyota boards, too. Yes, even the supposedly ultra-reliable Toyotas have their share of problems (sludge, bad trannies in the new Siennas, etc.).
-Brian
Steve, Host
Steve, Host
I know it's hard to wade through the thousands of posts here, but if you're going to do good research, one must read carefully, and not coming to conclusions based on post counts. I think virtually every thread here on Edmunds has gone O/T occasionally, sometimes more often than not. It's just the nature of discussion boards. :-)
One can simply scroll to the bottom of a thread and ask a simple question abpout reliability/problems/etc. if so inclined too. ;-)
-Brian
Mazda just debuted the new MPV an hour ago at the Frankfurt auto show. Main differences are new headlights, new grille, and titanium coloured instrument panel (similar to the Mazda6).
Nothing groundbreaking......perhaps a touch more upscale looking......sure wish that back seat was split.
Dinu
Don't care for the GFX ground effects though.
Here is the link... http://media.ford.com/mazda/article_display.cfm?article_id=16113
Dang it all...I wonder how much to retrofit the rear discs on my 2002?
The '04 looks a little old-fashioned or stodgier in comparison. Maybe Mazda is trying to appeal to an older, more upscale crowd and will then give us the Mazda4 for those who want an edgier, sportier look.
For some reason, the wheels24.co.za link below doesn't work but if you search for Mazda4 in google you can get to it that way. Also try
http://37747.rapidforum.com/topic=102285175588
I like the Mazda4 but hope they hide the sliding door tracks as in the MPV and tidy up the rear styling a bit.
http://www.wheels24.co.za/Wheels24v2/ContentDisplay/w24ThirdLevel- - /0,5684,1369_1339183,00.html?NewsPath=1