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I have complained about startup A/C performance since getting the vehicle. My wife has a heart condition which means she cannot tolerate extreme heat. I just wanted them to ORDER the darn part so that they could diagnose it AND fix it. This dealership is one of the largest Pontiac/GMC/Buick dealers in the state - I don't see what a big deal this is?
I don't feel my request was unreasonable. I feel their response was. I will let everyone know how my new GMC dealer does - have an appointment for Friday and they claim they'll have the part in stock so that they can perform the TSB.
--Robert
Thanks!
--Robert
Could be bad ignition switch or bad engine computer. There are a ton of electronics in the TrailBlazer, and that is why a dealer needs to look at it.
Did the service engine soon light come on at any time?
===================
I have to chuckle at your statement. I too agree but thats impossible. Tires, axles, engines, drive shafts, almost every moving part on a vehicle can fail at any time leaving you SOL. Look around, there are a lot of small garages that have good mechanics who will fix your TB now that it is out of warranty for a whole lot less then the dealer. Even the dealer should be able to hook it up to a computer if needed and tell you what is wrong with a basic 1 hour labor charge I would think.
"ABS light on, DTCs set. Some 1999-2004 midsize and full-size GM pickups and SUVs (full list below) may illuminate the ABS light and store DTC C0201 or C0265 in the ABS computer. In addition, code U1041 may set in other modules or you may encounter lost communication between your scanner and the ABS module.
According to GM, all of these problems are probably due to a bad connection at ABS ground GlK), which you'll find on the frame rail just underneath the driver's-side door.
Trucks that can be affected by the problem are:
2002-2004 TrailBlazer & TrailBlazer EXT models; GMC Envoys, Envoy XLs, Olds Bravadas, Buick Rainiers and GMC Envoy XUVs."
I know this doesn't fit all your symptoms, but point is, it could be one bad electrical connector or ground causing all your problems. Or an intermittent ignition switch. Those have been known to cause no start and other intermittent electrical problems.
Did the dealer pull up all the previous service history on the Trailblazer you bought? You did say "new" but it is a 2002, so it could have plenty of repair history. They have easy access to all repairs done to it since day one when it was brand new. Was the previous owner having the same issues before they traded it in? Could it be you bought someone elses "lemon" they got rid of?
Maybe the improved cooling will help with my towing issues as well as the slow AC.
For those of you that have seen the TSB for the new design fan clutch, where did you get ahold of the TSB? I'd like to print it out before I approach the dealer.
Thanks,
Deano
I have another dealer friend... I'm going to ask him for the text of the TSB...
--Robert
High Ambient Temperatures and/or High Humidity
Conditions After Start Up, Especially at Low Engine
Speeds (Install New Engine Cooling Fan Clutch)
#04-01-38-019A - (Jun 7, 2005)
Intermittent Slow to Cool HVAC Performance Concerns in High Ambient Temperatures and/or High Humidity Conditions After Start Up, Especially at Low Engine Speeds (Install New Engine Cooling Fan Clutch)
2004-2005 Buick Rainier
2002-2005 Chevrolet TrailBlazer Models
2002-2005 GMC Envoy Models
2002-2004 Oldsmobile Bravada
2005 Saab 9-7X
This bulletin is being revised to provide repair information for this customer concern. Please discard Corporate Bulletin Number 04-01-38-019 (Section 01 -- HVAC).
Condition
Some customers may comment on slow to cool Air Conditioning (A/C) performance or high A/C outlet temperatures after start up or that the A/C system is not cooling sufficiently, especially in high ambient temperatures. This may be an intermittent condition and the performance of the Heating, Ventilation and Air Conditioning (HVAC) system may not meet customer expectations.
Cause
This condition may be caused by the response of the Electro-Viscous (EV) fan clutch and can be related to airflow across the condenser. This low A/C system performance can occur for longer periods of time if the vehicle is allowed to idle or is driven in low speed conditions. The response of the EV fan clutch will affect A/C system performance. As higher road speeds are attained, the increased airflow across the condenser will usually improve A/C system performance and the response of the EV fan clutch. This condition may be more evident after the vehicle has set for a period of time and can be difficult to duplicate. The condition may occur after the vehicle has set for as little as 10 minutes or as long as overnight. It is most prevalent intermittently during the first 15 minutes of operation.
Correction
Technicians are to replace the EV fan clutch with a new design part, P/N 15293048, on vehicles built before June 2005. Vehicles built in June 2005 may already have the updated EV fan clutch and it will not need to be replaced. For 2004 model year vehicles and older, update the Powertrain Control Module (PCM) with a software calibration that was developed to improve coolant temperature gauge readings. This new calibration will cause the PCM to command small amounts of additional fan engagement to better control engine coolant temperatures. Model year 2005 vehicles already have this calibration installed. Refer to Corporate Service Bulletin Number 04-06-02-005 for more information about this calibration. Proper diagnosis of any customer concern is essential. Refer to the Diagnostic Starting Point-Heating, Ventilation and Air Conditioning procedure in SI to begin a diagnosis of any HVAC concerns. Refer to the Diagnostic Starting Point-Engine Cooling procedure in SI to begin a diagnosis of any engine cooling or engine cooling fan concerns. If an attempt is made to diagnose an HVAC system concern, all parameters must be measured. As an example, both the low and high side refrigerant pressure readings must be measured. If only the low side pressure readings were measured, it would appear that the A/C compressor is disengaging at a higher pressure than expected. If both the low and high side pressures were being measured, it would be noted that the A/C compressor is probably disengaging due to the maximum high side pressure cut out point being reached. This occurs to protect the HVAC system from damage. The updated PCM software calibration along with the updated EV fan clutch will improve this condition due to increased air flow across the condenser. The new EV fan clutch has an increased minimum operating fan speed and an improved response time. Additional engine cooling fan noise can be expected with the updated PCM software calibrations.
The last area of customer concern is the operation of the HVAC system blower motor. For vehicles equipped with automatic control HVAC systems (RPO CJ2), the blower motor fan speed will be limited to 80% of maximum when the HVAC system is operating in the automatic mode. To obtain maximum blower motor speed, instruct the customer to manually adjust the blower motor speed to the highest setting.
Parts Information
Part Number 15293048
Description Clutch Assembly
Has your engine gotten very loud? When our fan clutch needed to be replaced, the engine in our Envoy XL got very, very loud. It was a roaring noise that got louder with higher RPMs. That was a year or two ago, now that I know about the TSB for the fan clutch it might be worth it to tell the dealer that the A/C isn't cooling well at low or idol speeds to see if I can get the new replacement part.
I just would like to know if these cars are dependable and if anyone would suggest puchasing this truck over a Pilot?
My wife has a Honda Odyssey van, and I for the life of me can't see why so many like that vehicle. Lots of road noise, doesn't drive any better than other vans. JMHO
Which one is it?
exalteddragon1,
1) there are two types of people who post here, those with complaints about the tripletts and those who work for GM or have family who works for GM .
2) follow your instincts, if it quacks like a duck, it probably is a duck.
3) The complaints were and continue to be real.
Some brands have a reputation for consistent quality, Honda is one of them. GM can make a good vehicle, but there seem to be high number of problematic GM cars out there. Why gamble?
I had a bad 3 year experience with a 2002 TB. Sold it and bought a Mitsubishi Endeavor and have had 7500 miles of problem free driving.
I don't work for GM, don't have any family that works or worked for GM. I have had a lot of other makes and models. I chose another Envoy because I liked the handling, ride, features, styling of the '03.
We have a Honda Odyssey in the household. I really don't understand all the excitement about that vehicle. Lots of road noise, so so ride, etc.
tidester, host
The Pilot and Endeavor cannot be compared to the Envoy... Its a different class of vehicle. I believe if you're considering a Pilot or Endeavor, you might as well consider a minivan. Better gas mileage, and ride. The triplets are true trucks with a body on frame design. I towed a 2000 pound double jetski trailer through VT last year with an MDX and hated life when you threw a hill into the equation.
Corinne
I don't work for GM either, in fact, my TB is my first GM vehicle I have ever purchased. I have owned it 3+ years and have 74,000 miles, and it is better than the Durango and the Jeep Grand Cherokee so far. My 02 TB drives exactly, if not better, than it did when it was new. I would say at around 65,000 miles my engine FINALLY started loosening up, and I am very confident this vehicle will last me well after my payments are up. The 4.2 L inline engine is a tight engine and is one of the best engines in the world according to many consumer reports...did anyone see that Consumer Reports or Motor Trend several years ago on TV that showed this engine being tested by GM being run a full-throttle and it hitting 300,000 miles? Not bad when you consider it was being run at full-throttle.
I have been reading Honda is starting to have transmission problems because they are trying to engineer smoother transmissions, and the recalls are becoming more common. If anyone remembers, Honda used to put a automatic transmission that used to "kick" into gear (reminded me of a go-cart or tractor). True, that transmission would last 200,000 miles, but I think they realized that if they want to compete with GM & Chrysler, they would have add a smoother transmission. The problem with a smoother transmission means more "slippage" and more "heat", which results in faster wear. Knock on wood...I have gotten 150,000 miles on all my vehicles and never had automatic tranny problems. An engine will outlast a transmission every time.
My two cents. Over and out-
Gmfan
I had a horrible Dodge Caravan that I spent more money on repairing than what I orgionally paid for it.
I had a Chrysler Lebaron that had a Mitsu engine in it that was so bad that I wanted to get rid of the car every day I drove it. So now I vow never to buy a Mitsu engine again.
I had a Ford Mustang that constantly got out of ailignment, broke down, and rusted that I had to get rid of it.
I had a K car that would stall and could never be fixed by the garages. I had to give that away.
I have also owned a Nova, Caprice, Chevy Van, Cavalier, Omega, & LeSabre. All these cars were hand me downs and all drove well and needed only maintenance to keep them on the road. The Nova and Caprice hit the 200,000 mile mark. If I had not bought newer vehicles, I would still have them.
My Prizm has not had one problem with it in 55,000 miles. Yes, it was built with a Toyota engine, but GM had a lot to do with it. It makes me want to buy a Pontiac Vibe just because it was made at the same plant.
My car history makes me very confident with GM products. Yes, ALL car companies have their lemons and the Japanese brands seem to have better quality reputations. However, for the price and IMO the quality, nothing beats a GM. My next car purchase most likely will be a GM. Toyota is the only other car company that I might buy from. The rest, especially Chrysler, would have to give me one hell of a deal to get me to buy from them.
Can't say it won't still be overfilled, but an engine off check is not accurate.
Good luck
Wxman
Open the hood. Look at the headlamp that is to be repaired. On either side of the headlamp you will see a slender piece of metal sticking up. Pull each of these metal tabs straight up. When both are pulled up, the headlamp assembly will lift out. There is a round rubber cap covering each of the bulbs. Remove the rubber cap of the burnt out bulb. Disconnect the bulb wiring. Rotate the burnt out bulb and it should come free of the mounting. Replace with new bulb. DO NOT touch the glass part of the new bulb with your hands. Wear gloves. Hand oil will severely shorten the life of the new bulb, so use gloves. Connect bulb wiring, replace rubber cap and put headlamp back in origional position. Push each metal tab back down.
Look at headlight and compare with other one to make sure the repaired on is reinstalled correctly. Your done.
If you had a TB, the job would have been more difficult, as the grille does get in the way. I have read on other forums it can be done without removing the grille, if you are blessed with small hands and can work in close places.
Greg
Mitsubishi sold 1,600 Endevors
Honda sold over 14,000 Pilots
Chevy sold 29,000 Trailblazers
GMC sold 15,000 Envoys
Both Envoy and TBs are seeling very close to last years numbers. (about 150,000 TB's in 6 months).
First it seems gas prices don't scare us too much. Tahoe, Yukon, and Yukon XL sales are about the same as last year. Suburban sales are down slightly.
Second, if the quality is that bad how can you sell that many of them? There are roughy more Envoys sold in a month and Mitsu. Endevors in a whole year.
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Share your vehicle reviews
Thanks.
As far as the numbers game goes, GM has a much larger dealer network to sell the tripletts. I live near a Mitsubishi dealership. I see Endeavors everywhere . People like how they look and perform. I know I can't tow as much as a TB, but it is not an issue. Ownership experience is the most important measurement with a car.
Someone recently stated that only complainers post here. If the same is true for Endeavors and Pilots and others, then we should see a proportionate number of posts on the other boards.
As long as we're "doing the numbers"
As of this writing, Endeavor (problems and solutions) has 134 posts. Tripletts have 17,169. If Chevy TB sales are about 60% of triplett sales, 10,200 posts are about TB's. Throw out MY many posts, both positive and negative. That's a nearly 90 to 1 ratio of complaints TB's to Endeavors.
Like you said, numbers don't lie.
gmfan