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Buick Rainier, Chevy TrailBlazer, GMC Envoy

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Comments

  • jay_24jay_24 Member Posts: 536
    Maybe its because a new TB is due out in 2007/2008 and its longer and has 3 row seating?

    Maybe the new 2006 (on sale in Feb??) Tahoe will overlap too much with it?

    The TB is definitely smaller feeling than a Tahoe. We have a 03 Tahoe LS (with third row) and my sister-in-law has a TB. Neighbor has a TB EXT. My wife drives our Tahoe most of the time.

    We prefered the Tahoe ove a TB EXT because:
    #1 3 child seats fit in second row, but don't in a TB
    #2 Tighter turning radius. My wife felt she could park a Tahoe easier. A short TB would be easier yet.
    #3 MPG. We get 19 highway and 17 highway with camper and full load. Sis-in-law gets 20 highway but 14 towing a camper with TB.
    #4 Overall room. Our family of 5 just fits better.
    #5 Tahoe fit/finish just seemed better inside and out.
  • dmathews3dmathews3 Member Posts: 1,739
    I believe they are built in Oklahoma City which is closing that plant this coming Feb. Very nice plant, huge too. So big that the curviture of the earth had to be taken in consideration when it was built.
  • quarquequarque Member Posts: 41
    Original Equipment batteries are notorius for short lives and quick deaths. They are designed to last about 24 months (depending on the vehicle) but almost half fail before that. They really don't like to be drained flat dead - that shortens the life of any battery, but moreso on these cheapies. You almost have to plan on replacing it after 2 years. Due to complaints over the years the trend lately is to put better batteries in everything except the cheapest models. My son's Mitsu (cheap) lasted 27 months. My '95 Blazer lasted 35 months. My '90 Mazda lasted 33 months. A good Sears will last 5 years unless abused a lot. There are also some nifty protection devices available to protect the battery. One unit disconnects the "+" lead when the voltage falls below a certain point. If you are going out in the boonies these are real life-savers.
  • imadad2imadad2 Member Posts: 79
    After doing more reading, it looks like the Oaklahoma City plant is scheduled to be closed. Instead of finding a new home for the EXT or the XL to be built, GM decided to scrap the SUV. I agree that the Tahoe and the TB have a lot of similarities, but I thought I'd share my reasons why I preferred the extended TB over the Tahoe.

    #1 The price. The Tahoe is $6,000 to $7,000 more than the TB. Standard features are almost identical.
    #2 I actually like the fit/finish of the TB better than the Tahoe. The Tahoe looks to boxy for my tastes.
    #3 MPG. I have the 5.3L V-8 in my TB. I get the same mileage 19 on the highway, but have more horsepower and torque.
    #4 Length. The TB is longer and has more cubic feet than the Tahoe.
    #5 Tires. I got 17" instead of 16" tires on my TB. I also have, IMO, a better braking system.
    #6 3rd row. I prefer my third row over the Tahoes. It has more leg room and the seats are better. The Tahoe seats 9, but the third row is for kids.

    I love my TB extended and am sad to see it go. The Tahoe sells, but looks to much like the Suburban. The TB is different and feels more car like than the Tahoe. I look forward to the redesign, but am saddened that they are not continuing the 7 seater. I was actually thinking of buying another after paying this one off.
  • hammen2hammen2 Member Posts: 1,284
    Bear in mind that you are comparing the EXT/XL to the current Tahoe and Yukon. All-new versions of those vehicles will be on sale in early January (they are in production now), and will answer many of your complaints (especially regarding fit and finish - the interiors will be the nicest of any SUV). The new models come with new engines and class-leading fuel economy. I believe the current EXT is about as long as the Tahoe, but the Tahoe is wider, for example.

    The other shoe is the birth of GM's new crossovers. The Saturn Outlook, GMC Acadia, and Buick Enclave will likely be shown at the North American International Auto Show. These vehicles are car-based but about the size of the current Triplets. It's expected that many SUV shoppers will look to migrate to the crossovers. To that end, GM has delayed the 2007 revamp to the current midsize SUVs.

    Given the death of the Envoy XUV, the impending death of Isuzu (or at least their sales in NA), and the slow sales of the EXT/XL, it doesn't make sense to keep the OKC plant open any longer...

    --Robert
  • hammen2hammen2 Member Posts: 1,284
    My wife and I bought our 2004 Envoy SLT (fairly loaded, everything but air suspension, sticker over $40k) for about $27k after all incentives (GMS, retiree certificate, GM Family Card max allowance, $6k in rebates) back on September 30, 2004. At almost 15 months my wife has over 22k miles on it and would have more had she not broken her right arm almost two months ago, and had me chauffeuring her around.

    She was looking at an Equinox or a VUE, but the deal on the Envoy was much better, and it's much more vehicle. Of course, reliability has not been great - it's been in twice for CEL (once towed due to flashing CEL - cracked spark plug from the factory - I had complained to the delivering dealer about a shudder at idle, and he told me, without seeing the car, that "they all do that") and once for Service 4WD. It had a problem with a shudder going uphill at 70+ mph - upgrading the software on the PCM and TCM seemed to fix the problem.

    I had the fan clutch replaced at a different dealer after the first dealer refused to do it (I should also note, this first dealer is where I bought my GTO from, and it had to be buyback/exchanged due to a number of problems, some caused by the dealer's service department). There's still an intermittent ticking from the HVAC, the tranny shifts really hard in temps less than 20 degrees, and the car can refuse to move if in A4WD on a dry stretch of pavement (yep, delivering dealer says this is normal - no, my wife doesn't drive in A4WD when it's dry out, just if you're driving over a dry patch, i.e. back out of a parking spot onto a clear spot, then put it in drive = no go).

    Needless to say, sometime in the next month I'm springing for a 4 year, 60k GM Major Guard warranty from http://www.gmoutlet.com - about $1300. I don't have much confidence that the vehicle will be solid, but, even though we're not upside down on the vehicle, I'd prefer to drive it for at least another couple of years before getting rid of it. The GTO buyback/exchange experience, and the problems with the Envoy, means I most likely have purchased my last GM vehicles... sad, too, since my mother-in-law is a GM retiree and her continued benefits are dependent on how GM is doing...

    --Robert

    P.S. My sister bought an '03 TrailBlazer... so far she's had the power steering pump replaced (noisy in cold weather), the taillamp recall, the back tailgate glass refusing to open, and recently her entire driver's side rear door came completely apart - her dealer accused her of the vehicle being in an accident - and the plastic cut the rubber door seal). Not too impressive in only 20k miles (she doesn't drive it in the summer)...
  • raleighraleigh Member Posts: 98
    b36 - If you don't smell gas with recirculation on and the windows up, that would suggest that it's coming from under the hood. Can you open the hood, stick your head under it, and have someone else start the vehicle? DO you smell gas? Can you locate approximately where it might be coming from? Could it be a leaky injector that "seals" as soon as it gets warm? I'd take it to a different dealer and raise hell about it.
  • wrenchspin2wrenchspin2 Member Posts: 37
    Wow, I guess I've been lucky so far to be on the other side of the coin (at least with batteries that is!). I have had decent luck with orig equip batteries over the many years, usually having them lasting longer than any replacements I've used. Typically my family has always gotten 5-7 yr range out of an orig equip battery. I live in the northeast so the weather varies from hot summers to cold winters. Didn't matter if the models were foreign or domestic, V8's, 6's, or 4cyl. I just recently got 10yr and 1mo (wow) out of the orig equip battery in my 1995 Subaru Legacy 4cyl base model (cheap...has no power options, not even elec windows). I think it was manufactured by Fuji Heavy Ind. Guess it all depends on many variables...the orig manufacture of the battery (no defect, number of plates used and such), how many electric goodies/accessories draw on it, the environment the battery lives in (temp variations), a good electrical charging system, always clean the terminals for a good charge, etc etc. My early model 2003 Envoy (purchased Aug2002)battery is still going strong. :)
  • quarquequarque Member Posts: 41
    hammen2 - wow, so many problems! I used to drive only Subarus, Toyotas & Nissans until in '95 I bought my first SUV - 4WD Blazer. That was the first year of the new body style. I had very good luck with it (no major repairs) so in '99 I gave it to my son and bought a new one with a few more goodies in it. That one never had anything done but regular service for 5+ years. Early this year I sold it and bought an '05 Rainier. It only has 8500 miles on it now but has been almost trouble free (minor problem with one computer module). So GM has been pretty good for me for 10 years. My best friend has likewise had good luck with Blazers and now a TB. Not sure why some people have such bad luck with cars...
  • snokingsnoking Member Posts: 47
    Some People even have problems with a Honda, and that is really hard to do! Wife loves her Rainier. Noticed a couple features the other day. At 37 degrees it warns that it is possibly icey. If you leave the turn indicator on, after awhile it will tell you it is on. SNOKING
  • gmfangmfan Member Posts: 188
    At 85,000 mi, my 02 TB still going strong. Here are the only repairs, other than rountine maintenance:

    1. Front end rattle turned out to be coming from hood. Dealership adjusted mounts, and no problems since

    2. Steering shaft replaced under warranty. Not sure what this would have cost.

    3. Bad Oxygen Sensor at 40,000 miles. Replaced for $140, not covered under warranty

    4. Battery Acid Leak from Delco battery. Replaced for free by dealership since it is a known problem with these problems. No big deal besides having to jump the battery and drive cautiously to dealerhship since faulty battery was causing havoc on the electronic transmission

    5. Most recently at 80,000 miles, had a rear pinion seal leak, it was very small and it was leaking, but blow back could be seen on the differential. Rear end was not whinning, but I went ahead and had it fixed since a new rear-end can cost a couple thousand if allowed to go. Dealership replaced seal, and installed BG synthetic for around $225.

    At 85,000 mi I still have original brakes. Tranmission fluid has been serviced once at 60,000 miles. (I did the drain rather than the flush)

    So, 3 years and and 85,000 miles, I am out $365 excluding transmission maintenance ($60).

    So far, still very pleased with this vehicle. I feel like this engine could go on forever since it feels hardly broken in. At 100,000 miles, I will change the plugs, service the radiater and coolant, and do another trans service.
  • rhen1rhen1 Member Posts: 1
    It seems like the Delco battery have leakage problems. My battery recently stared failing in my 2003 Envoy. Should I replace it myself or have GM fix it, and if I replace it how many CCA's do I need? Pros and cons please. :confuse:
  • lmavroslmavros Member Posts: 2
    i have owend gm for 15 yrs the old s 10 blazer and sonoma both ran for ever with only regular maintenance. never any problems never a tow .. both had over 200,000 miles and still going. so i decided to up grade a new TB . i hope to have as much luck with this . but after reading the problems people are haveing i am beinging to wonder .

    power steering pumps , transmisson problems seem to be big ..rear ends , computers , is GM not the same anymore ..
    guess i need the extended service plan ? i am already having a problem with wind noise in a back window the
    On- star will not work . and the plastic is bowing on the front bumper .. back to the dealer and have only owned this a week .. only time will tell !
  • 01_hoe01_hoe Member Posts: 273
    If it is still under the 3/36 warranty have GM fix it. If out of warranty, I think consumer reports recommends a Walmart battery.
  • elvis23elvis23 Member Posts: 12
    My battery died after 38 months. So, I took it to the dealer, and they wanted $130 for a new battery. I looked in ConsumerReports, and they recommended Walmart and Sears. Sears came in at $90, and Walmart at $60. I investigated, and the Walmart one is made by Johnson Controls, so I bought it. $65 out the door with installation. No issues yet (2 months). It has a 4 year / 9 year warranty and the same specs as Delco. Best for me, it can be replaced under warranty at any Walmart across the nation. Something to look into.
  • jddealer1jddealer1 Member Posts: 1
    sharp turns w/a4wd on give the impression that the front is locked up (not supposed to be while in a4wd). dealer reprogrammed, went away and came back. new switch, went away came back intermittent. my brothers 2003 trailblazer is also starting to do the same. any thoughts out there????
  • balichbalich Member Posts: 62
    Can anybody who owns a '05 or '06 TB - please comment on it ?

    Good or bad .. I am interested in learning how it drives/ feels and gas mileage ?

    Thanks in advance!!!
  • snokingsnoking Member Posts: 47
    Try the Buick Rainier. Price is about the same and quieter build. Get the V8! SNOKING
  • raleighraleigh Member Posts: 98
    GMFAN - The oxygen sensor is part of the emission system and should have been covered under warranty. Did your dealer claim it wasn't covered? :confuse:
  • raleighraleigh Member Posts: 98
    It's personal, I know, but I would never buy anything based on Consumer Reports' recommendations (as a result of much bad experience)and I refuse to shop at Wal-Mart because of their predatory business practices. I've also found Sears Diehards to be DieFasts. For me, that leaves Interstate Megatron batteries. In my experience, they are clearly superior. I've also had pretty good luck with Delco.
  • gmfangmfan Member Posts: 188
    Raleigh- That is a great point. Emission systems carry a longer warranty. The oxygen sensor was not covered by my "aftermarket" extended warranty and the dealer claimed it was out of factory warranty. I had this work done a year and a half ago...do you think I would have any luck talking to the dealer about a reimbursement?
  • gmfangmfan Member Posts: 188
    It should be well documented by GM that the Delco batteries leak acid. I was out of warranty, so I made call to Chevy (someone on this posts suggested), and they contacted the dealer since that is where the vehicle was, and Chevy decided to pay for clean up of the acid and install a new Delco. The new Delco they put in is different and will not leak and has a 7 yr warranty! Make sure your vehicle is at the dealer when you call so they can call the dealer to verify. Good luck
  • bohheybohhey Member Posts: 1
    I had EXACTLY the same thing - FINALLY found it last night - pulled the right front tire and inner fender - the rear black filler that is installed so you can't see the inside of the fender when the door is open was loose - wind whistling around in there would cause it to move & squeak - you could see where it had been rubbing. Wedged it up in there tight - squeak is GONE.
  • raleighraleigh Member Posts: 98
    Off-hand, I'm not sure what the warranty is on emissions systems, but you're right ... it's a lot longer than the regular warranty -- 10 years or 100,000 miles is what comes to mind. Check your manual and then see the dealer's service manager. This should definitely have been covered. If he balks, go to the Chevy Regional Service Rep. Good luck! :mad:
  • bzyarb2bzyarb2 Member Posts: 1
    I recently bought a 2005 Trailblazer LS. I got a really good price on it and have been happy with it so far. A couple of things that I have noticed though is that it drives a little "light" what I mean is that a good strong wind can make it sway - it drives more like a car than a truck. Prior to making the purchase, I considered 2 others, the 06 Explorer, which drove like an actual truck and the GMC Envoy, nice and luxurious, but a little pricey. The determining factor for me was the price, in which both were a little out of my price range for a second vechicle. The other thing I is that the plug in outlets do not operate with the vechicle - the rear ones operate independently. Recently, I had battery problems with it starting and the dealer determined that the portable cooler that I keep in the back for trips, was plugged in and was not turning off when the vehicle turned off - power was still going to the cooler which drained the battery after 3 days of being plugged in continously. So, other than that, if you want an afforable, vechicle which is pretty decent on mileage, the TB is ok - also, make sure that you get running boards - I made the mistake of getting one w/out running boards and at 5'3 and female, I'm having to stretch a little to get in and out. Running boards are on my new years shopping list. Regards!
  • 01_hoe01_hoe Member Posts: 273
    Good deals can be found on Ebay for running boards.
  • wxman4wxman4 Member Posts: 53
    Hello all,

    Is there an easy way to tell if I have an 8.0" or 8.6" rear diff?
    Also, has anyone removed rear diff cover? Will it come completely off without removing the suspension piece directly behind it? It looks pretty tight to me, but I haven't tried it yet. Time for new fluid.

    2003, 4WD, EXT, 3.42, locker

    Wxman
  • n7donn7don Member Posts: 188
    Our '03 Envoy had a drain plug so removing the cover wasn't needed to drain fluid..... there's also a drain plug on the front differential too.
  • jh1977jh1977 Member Posts: 40
    I read on the internet the Trailblazer and Envoy Extended Length SUVs are being discontinued very soon. The Regular Length Trailblazer and Envoy will be recongfigured to have three rows of seats to compete with the Ford Exployer. The Rainer and Rendezvous will also be discontinued for the new 2008 Buick Enclave. Have anybody heard of these changes and what do you think about them?
  • wxman4wxman4 Member Posts: 53
    Thanks. After much cleaning, some with a wire brush, I found I do have a drain plug at the bottom of the diff. I thought before it was just a casting mark. It appears, unlike the fill plug, to have some kind of rubber seal along with the plug. Any trouble reusing this seal?

    Wxman
  • rad225rad225 Member Posts: 15
    To solve your swaying in the wind problem, install a
    Hotchkis rear anti sway bar. I put on on my 2002 TB and the vehicle is very stabile in crosswinds. Cost about $220.
    Worth every penny.
  • psobkiewiczpsobkiewicz Member Posts: 20
    I have a very annnoying rattle that seems to be coming from either the drivers side rear door, or the pilar between the front and rear drivers side doors. It happens when I hit a slight bump in the road. It almost sounds like a plastic against plastic sound. I lubed all the latches and door clamps and the problem still persists. Anyone experience this and have a fix? Thanks! BTW.. its an 05 Envoy.
  • n7donn7don Member Posts: 188
    Honestly it's been long enough I don't recall the particulars but I didn't replace the seal.

    Out of interest are you going to use the high dollar fluid recommended by GM? My Envoy still has warranty so I did but tblazed did a lot a calling/emailing and used Royal Purple at less than 1/2 the price. I couldn't get anyone to say their product met the GM spec listed in the owner's manual. If you are going to change the transfer case too... and have the shield option... it can get a little tricky. I was lazy and didn't want to completely remove the shield so I just removed enough bolts to pull it down about 8" in the front. I fashioned a trough from cardboard and used it as a drain. Actually worked fine.
  • wxman4wxman4 Member Posts: 53
    Thanks. I think the rear change will be on tap for tonight.
    I used/am using Redline 75W90 in the diffs and Redline MTL in the transfer case. (Also have Redline D4 in the tranny.)
    These were the 'equivalents' they recommended.
    I have used Redline in everything except engine (Mobil 1) for years, including Water Wetter and SI1 fuel system cleaner. I used to live near Benicia where they are headquartered. Haven't had a reason to change.

    Wxman
  • balichbalich Member Posts: 62
    I just reviewed CONSUMER REPORTS because I was in
    market for a '05 or '06 TB .. However the comments where
    not flattering ... They listed the '05 and '06 TB as vehicles to avoid ..also say RELIABILTY with a X meaning
    to avoid .. it says lots of windnoise and rattles .. also
    seats not very comfortable and cheapo interior and horrible ride ..

    Is this true ? I can't believe they would sell so many
    TB's if they where reliable.
  • elevatorguyelevatorguy Member Posts: 87
    How many people here have Sirius in a TrailBlazer or Envoy? What system are you using? I have an 05 TB with XM. Is there any way to use my unused XM antenna (I don't subscribe to XM) to get the signal to the Sirius? I want Sirius, but don't want to run an antenna onto the roof of my TB.
  • balichbalich Member Posts: 62
    BEST and WORST cars by Consumer reports ... TB one of the worst .. GM has by far the most WORST PERFORMING VEHICLES in the list ...here is the link:

    http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/cars/used-cars/used-cars-best-and-worst-1205.- htm
  • hardhawkhardhawk Member Posts: 702
    I used a plug & play portable Sirius receiver with a very tiny magnetic antenna on the back roof in the middle just in front of the tailgate opening. Very unobtrusive and the unit works great using the FM modulator. I have an extra antenna on my boat and just unplug the unit when I get to the lake and then use it on the boat. I am very happy with the setup and it was $50.
  • 01_hoe01_hoe Member Posts: 273
    Consumer reports have never favored GM or Ford. To me their reports ****. I have had two of the GMC Envoys, an '03 and currently an '05. We have had more problems with our '02 Honda Odyssey van (which they love) than either of the Envoys. GM had greatly improved the TrailBlazer and Envoys from the first they made in 2002.
  • psobkiewiczpsobkiewicz Member Posts: 20
    I Agree... I also had an 03 and now have an 05 and love the vehicle. I find the ride very comfortable and fairly responsive. I have had 2 transmissions in my "highly rated" 02 Acura TL... a consumer reports favorite.
  • gmfangmfan Member Posts: 188
    I would disregard CR comments and go drive a couple from different dealerships. I think there should be some kind of disclosure (maybe there already is) that says these reports are "our opinion..etc" I have an 02 TB made in Aug and this is a better than average vehicle. I have 85,000 and I have not had any problems. No rattles in mine. The windnoise can be debateable, some of this post have posted problems, but I think those were the people that this is there first SUV purchase. I could not be happier in mine. This is my first GM vehicle, my parents always bought GM, and I really like it. Of course, I am comparing it to that 1996 Jeep GC I owned that once it hit 118,000 miles, it needed nearly $4,000 in repairs!

    The only con I have with the vehicle is lack of lateral support in the seats, which they may have fixed on the 05 and 06 models. Can anyone comment on this? I won't be in the market for another vehicle until at least 2008, but if we were not expecting a child, I would go out and by an 06, grey exterior (they did not offer it in 2002).
  • 01_hoe01_hoe Member Posts: 273
    Seats were upgraded on the '05's. Might check Ebay and pick up a set at a good price. They will bolt in, but you will loose the side airbags, if you now have them.
  • quarquequarque Member Posts: 41
    I USED to pay attention to CR and consumerguide.com, but I have found them to be very biased after doing further research. I recommend you take their ratings about as seriously as the drunk's at the local bar. If you want *quiet* you should test drive a Rainier. It is very quiet on rough pavement and comfortable. Got mine for $33k at 0%.

    I think you will find that reliability has as much to do with the individual vehicle as the make or model. People have problems with Toyotas and Hondas just like GM and Ford. You can get a lemon or a peach from any mfg. I have had very good luck with GM for 15+ years now. My '05 Rainier is the best vehicle I've owned in 35 years - a real pleasure to drive.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    The Consumer Reports - Testing & Review Methods discussion may be of interest.

    Steve, Host
  • jdhjdh Member Posts: 19
    We have a 2004 rainier and got stuck in about 10" of snow while trying to back up. Vehicle pulled forward fine but tires kept spinning when in reverse. Anyone have similar problems.

    JDH
  • blautensblautens Member Posts: 14
    It's not up to Honda/Toyota fit/finish or reliability, IMHO, or that of most other objective research. Outright quality of interior materials is lower, I believe. Hey, why did my CRV have far greater rear passenger room than the TrailBlazer? Better packaging efficiency (and vastly different platforms, I realize, but the TrailBlazer should still have more room in the rear passenger compartment than it does for the size vehicle that it is).

    That being said, in addition to my Lexus RX330, I just sold my Honda CRV and instead of a Pilot or Acura MDX I bought a Chevrolet TrailBlazer SS.

    Why? Three little characters:

    LS2.

    I'll be in the shop more than if I bought the MDX or Pilot, but I'll get there in a hurry.

    :)

    Cheers,
    Bruce

    P.S.
    Hemi? What's a Hemi?
  • quarquequarque Member Posts: 41
    I have the '05 Rainier and found it backed up as well as it went forward in snow. However, it did exhibit a strong tendency to spin the rears more than the fronts. This is "by design" - why it is not symmetrical torque sharing I don't know. Subaru, Audi and others use sym. torque sharing and it seems far superior. I had a Maxda MPV 4WD many years ago with center-diff lock button. That was a dirt-simple system that REALLY worked. I had 4 studded snows on it and NOTHING could stop it - believe me I tried! 12 degree slope on glare ice was no problem! But once the snow got above 9" it struggled - too much body drag.

    As for 10" of snow - I'm surprised you could go ANY direction in that much. I think 6-8" is about the limit for most "off-the-shelf" SUV's unless you change tires etc. If you plan to do a lot of snow driving you should consider a spare set of wheels with studded snows premounted.
  • gmtech2gmtech2 Member Posts: 2
    the wring for the temp sensor may already there. All you need is a mirror with compass and temp sensor. you will also need the sensor that is on the left upper radiator supp. if you have onstar you will need and onstar mirror
  • 01_hoe01_hoe Member Posts: 273
    Congrats on the TB SS :D

    Lot of TB SS owners over at trailvoy

    A Hemi is what you see in your rear view mirror ;)
  • gmtech2gmtech2 Member Posts: 2
    theres really not anything in pillar to rattle. Inside the rear door there is two rods one for handle and one for lock rod these can rattle . the other source of rattle could be the window channel 10mm bolts could be loose. try opening and closing the door with a little extra ump and see if you hear when the door shuts.( use your warranty)
    gmc dealers will be glad to fix it free
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