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Comments
I'm surprised the dealer hasn't hooked up a data recorder to your Envoy. It's like a flight data recorder on an airplane, but monitors all the data and traffic going on in the Envoy between the various computers. There is a button you push when an "event" happens, so it saves a snapshot of the data from 30 seconds before to 30 seconds after you push the button. They should be able to diagnose what's going on by analyzing the data.
After I had the data recorder installed, I drove home (uneventful), and parked it overnight in the garage. The next morning the battery was dead, because the data recorder drained the battery. I called a tow truck for a jumpstart, drove back to the dealer (uneventful again), and had them take the thing out. After that I called my lemon law attorney.
Thanks for all the help I will let yopu know and new information.
My wife and I started kicking around the idea of a third vehicle for a variety of reasons that are not relevant at this point.
When my wife's BMW X3 was in the body shop for a door ding that turned out to be two week days a weekend and one more week day, the body shop and insurance company provided her with a "free" rental. The rental was a vanilla 2006 4WD Chevy Trailblazer with what must be pretty much the lowest level of options you would ever expect to find on such a vehicle.
While it could not hide its truck underpinnings (apparently), the vehicle was pretty nice, more car-like than we would have ever imagined and, well, it WAS an American machine and we simply felt it would probably be a very good bargain.
The media is full of this that and the other deals currently -- so, I went to the www.chevrolet.com web site and configured a very highly equipped Trailblazer SS -- then the web site says "search local dealer inventories for something remotely close to your configured vehicle."
Other than color, there seemed to be several to choose from, so I went with the one that would be an OK color (Black with Ebony leather.)
Let me say, I had no expectations other than one of my co-workers and one of my neighbors recent experiences which led me to believe a 5% discount was not uncommon and that discounts and rebates and deals and and and meant 15% off MSRP for a current model year version are not rare.
The MSRP of this car was $$39,810 including shipping. The current "deal" is -$1,000 rebate.
In ROUND numbers as close to the real numbers as will make sense on this blog here is the response I got within 24 hours:
"We are pleased to inform you that the 2006 Black SS Trailblazer, VIN# XXXXXXXXXXX, is still available. Prior to Chevrolet's adjustment, it had a MSRP of $42,350.
Your special GM Certified Special Sale Price is $38,097.03, plus tax and fees."
The vehicle's window sticker is on the Internet and it is $39,810. So here is what has happened, I guess:
The price was raised $2,540, then discounted $4,253.
The car's window sticker was first marked up 6% then discounted off of that price 10%.
You know, if they would've come back with a $-1,000 rebate "take it or leave it" OFF of the $39,810, I think I would have felt LESS, somehow, like something smelled.
Now, however, this is a 10% discount but off of a car that has first been marked up 6%.
I guess the game is played this way -- I guess I now counter with what $36,023 (15% off) and see how it plays?
My wife and I are spoiled, or dazed and confused (both are likely) after dealing with Audi and BMW since 1977.
For some reason, this strikes me as having a reasonably high "crap quotient" with this Chevy dealer (not necessarily that it is THE dealer who is making it up as she goes along -- although that thought has crossed my mind.)
I don't even know if I want to do this now, but I am willing to listen to the replies from y'all.
And, thanks! :shades:
TMV it, cross check the number with others in Chevy Trailblazer/GMC Envoy/Olds Bravada: Prices Paid & Buying Experience, get quotes from dealers via the Edmunds.com page and focus only on the out the door price.
Shouldn't take more than two hours, tops.
Here's a role model: Edmunds Buys a Miata MX-5
Steve, Host
http://www.chevrolet.com/performance/
Thanks!
Steve, Host
You'll have to pardon GM, as they continue to try to adjust their pricing to reduce the amount of incentives, and get their pricing closer to "real-world" levels. It is GM and not the dealer that is fooling around with the prices. The sticker readjustment is something GM did, not the dealer.
Now, there is a way to eliminate all of the "what's my price" stuff going on... that is, to get "GM in the Driveway" pricing. This is not the same as the employee price; it's the employee price + 4.5% (which is the same deal that suppliers get). This is a fixed price, not negotiable - the only caveat is that the dealership does NOT need to honor GMID - that's at their discretion (i.e. scarce or hot-selling car, they may not). My experience is that most dealers will do a GMID deal, particularly towards the end of the month.
How do you get GMID pricing? You find a GM employee or retiree, who can issue two of these GMID certificates in a month. The only info the employee needs is the buyer's DOB and the last 4 digits of their SSN. The employee then enters that information into the GMFamilyFirst website, and it spits back a certificate number which the employee emails to the buyer. The buyer then takes that number in, tells the dealer they have this GMID certificate, and it's processed when the deal goes down.
My mother-in-law is a GM retiree. I looked at the GMID pricing (available through the GMFamilyFirst website) and a TB SS with an MSRP of $39,435 has a GMID price of $36,353. Factor in the $1k rebate and now you're down to just over $35k. If you still have a non-GM vehicle I believe there is a $1k conquest rebate which brings the price down even further (though rebates are region-sensitive). If you had a GM card you could take even more off... welcome to the fun! More questions on GMID - contact me at the address in my Edmunds user profile.
And hey, the Trailblazer SS is one heck of a machine! It's got the LS2 engine, same as the 'vette, GTO, SSR, and '06 CTS-V, pushing out 395 hp. Friend of mine has SS #1 and does performance tuning on them... loves the truck (haven't seen it yet). It's not just a run-of-the-mill SUV. Interior design/quality is still the weak point on these vehicles... but, they've been around otherwise since 2002, and the reliability is getting better... no major refreshes coming except maybe the interior for the 2008 MY...
I also have the clunk/surge/normal behavior issue. The dealer states that the computer is going through various checks, which causes the bump. The bump only occurs after starting the car, and getting to the first full stop. The stop time has to be long enough for the computer to do its full check, or it won't occur until the next lengthy stop. After it occurs, it will not happen again until the car is restarted and comes to the next full stop. It actually makes some sense regarding the system check.
Deano
In looking at the actual repair diagram, I can now see that it's just a "shock module".
Deano
The vehicle has seen very moderate driving on highways and is not a "daily driver" as seen by the mileage. We have 2 months left on our warranty or 1700 miles. We have had an insane amount of warranty repairs on it over the past 3 years, from rear HVAC controls replacment (2x) to rack and pinion replacement, to gas tank neck replacement (2x), to rear windshield wiper replacement, to numerous 4wd repairs (when we only engage it maybe 10 miles a year in really bad snow) among dozens of other minor repairs, and the worst problem of all has hit us in the last 2 months.
During the last 7 or so weeks, the vehicle has stalled at least a dozen times WHILE DRIVING. Initially, within the first year of buying the vehicle would stall a few times on startup and initially putting it into gear. Ok, not a big problem as it would only happen once or twice a month, definitely frustrating but not a safety concern. The dealer of course could not duplicate the problem after taking it in several times for the problem.
As for the recent stalling during driving, I didn't believe my wife at first when she told me it died when she was slowing down for a car that was turning in front of her, but when I had it happen to me while slowing down at a stop light, it hit me like a brick wall - THIS IS FREAKIN DANGEROUS! She's toting our 13 month old daughter around and we really don't feel safe anymore. This is a serious safety issue!
The vehicle's in the dealer as we speak and hopefully they find SOMETHING, but you can bet we will be monitoring the vehicle VERY closely these last few months while it's still in warranty.
It was very refreshing (and unrefreshing at the same time) to see others with the same problem. I'm deathly afraid that the dealer will come back and say they could not duplicate the problem, but we will still experience the problem.
From reading other posts, I've seen suggested courses of action range from calling GM Corporate, to calling the NTSB to calling a lemon law attorney.
I believe lemon law applies if you file before 12 months or 12,000 miles of originally purchasing the vehicle? If so, that is not an option for us.
Thanks in advance for any information you can provide,
-Ed
The only only major difference between the TBs/Envoys that might mean the suspension is different is the AWD system unique to the Oldsmobiles. I really don't know, but I had always assumed the Bravada had an identical shock system.
What I really want is a set of the Bilstein heavy duties. I've called a couple of the online dealers and none of them seem to have the Bravada in their books and can't tell me one way or the other whether the shocks for the TBs/Envoys will work. Obviously I don't want to order until I'm absolutely sure that the part nos. are going to be the same. You knowlegeable guys please help me out if you can.
On the brighter side, I replaced the factory Michelin Cross Terrains with a set of Goodyear Fortera Silent Armor 17" tires. I can't recall owning Goodyear tires, but give these a huge thumbs up. I had read some rave reviews and decided to go with them. They are smoother and handle the bumps better than the Michelins. Pricey, about $150 more for the set than the Michelins, but I've always tried to buy the best tires I can afford.
Now if I could get the right Bilsteins, I'll have a great handling truck.
Cheers, JR
I have a 2003 V8/XLT and started noticing the same noise about 6 months after purchase. At first, I only heard it when slowing down around 1000 RPM when the engine was warm. If I hit the gas, the noise went away or, if the RPM's dropped below around 800, it went away. Since then, I have mentioned it to the dealer on each of my numerous visits without any luck in getting it resolved. Currently, the noise level has increased and is more prevalent around a wider range of RPM's. My warranty runs out in May and it would be nice to take care of this problem.
Has anyone else had this problem and managed to get it fixed?
Thanks!
I had this same problem a few weeks ago in a 2003 Envoy. The auto-volume on/off went to the speed control as you describe above. For a few minutes, I was hopeful since the Bose auto-volume is junk but it reverted back to its normal settings after re-starting the engine (the Min, Med, Max settings didn't work anyway, I suspect because there is no speed feedback to the radio in the Bose setup).
I contacted Bose awhile back about the lousy response of the auto-volume control and was told the following:
"Bose Corporation supplies the speakers and amplifiers and the radio/cd portion of the system is supplied by Delphi Electronics."
The other problem that I have had with that radio is that there is very little resolution in the volume control (the steps are too big). One click up is too loud and one click below that is too soft. This is even more of a problem with the Bose Auto-volume control enabled.
Glubash
As a followup, we picked up the trailblazer today and they said they strongly feel the recent stalling is related to the very recent SES light. I don't know the exact code, but they said it was a cam sensor error. Specifically the "camshaft sensor was shorted" as reported on the work order.
We will see if it was in fact related, or if the stalling occurs again.
Thanks again!
-Ed
billy
Document ID# 1652870
2003 GMC Truck Envoy - 4WD
Subject: SES Light Due to a P0130 DTC - Install Updated O2 Sensor and PCM Calibration - keywords 4.2 controls driveability engine gas HO2S intermittent LL8 light MIL PCM poor #PIP3411 - (04/27/2005)
Models: 2002-2003 Chevrolet TrailBlazer
2002-2003 GMC Envoy
2002-2003 Oldsmobile Bravada
with 4.2L Engine (VIN S - RPO LL8)
The truck would (intermittently) rev up and down while idling causing the engine to eventually stall. When you tried to accelerate while this was happening, the tach would go up, but the truck would shutter and spit and severely hesitate. Since having it fixed, the idling problem has not occurred, however the SES light has been on and I'm experiencing some major hesitation in accelerating while going 50-60 MPH. When you step on the gas to go a little faster like going uphill etc, the truck actually goes slower for a few seconds as if it was not getting any gas. Then it seems to kick in and take off, only to do it again when you step on the gas the next time.
This is very intermittent, but seems to happen more frequently within the first 5 or 10 miles of a trip.
Can anyone help out? I see a lot about the TSB 1652870 and will have the dealer look into this, but as you know, everything gets expensive especially when I am still paying on the 02 and have 85K miles!!
PS, I also have experienced other issues which seem to be prevalent on this board, anyone please feel free to email me and ask if I can help, hopefully I can!
Thanks
Brian
got car back yesterday, service order only has the following:
replaced crank shaft sensor capasitor sensor (not sure if this is two different sensors or not)
fp number description
12584079 sensor 2.383
12597025 valve 0.736
not sure what these are, but car does seem ok now
I'll let you know what happen Pete
I have an Envoy with the 6 and am going to need to get another vehicle very soon. (I drive tons of hwy miles). I could really use the extra space offered by the Tahoe/Yukon but it looks like I would be getting 18-19 hwy which would cost me an extra thousand dollars per year in fuel (I have done the math), which is not out of the question. I currently get 21-22 mpg am am ok with that. I would like a little extra "grunt" though and the extra torque of the V-8 would give that I think. Question:
If I stick with the Envoy/Trailblazer/Buick/Isuzu/etc bodystyle, what are my options in getting one with a V-8??? I want to go used and try to find something with 10-20k miles on it. I also do not care too much for the "extended" version of envoy so would like to stay short. If I am going to get an XL I would get a Tahoe. I have flipped back and forth, I dont know what to do.....
http://www.shockwarehouse.com/
2003 OLDSMOBILE BRAVADA
POSITION*: Front
Manufacturer: BILSTEIN
New part#: F4-BE5-A333-H0
List Price: $ 121.00
Category: Shock Absorbers
POSITION*: Rear
Manufacturer: BILSTEIN
New part#: F4-BE5-A334-H0
List Price: $ 121.00
Category: Shock Absorbers
=========================
at the same time they dropped the long wheelbase.
I've looking to buy new, and you can indeed get a Trailblazer( not EXT) with the 5.3 liter, DOD engine. I've seen a few on the lots, but not in the color I like.
City: 13-15 MPG
Highway (55-60 mph): 19-20 MPG
Highway (65-70 mpg): 17-18 MPG
I have two friends with the same engine in different vehicles.
Friend #1: Tahoe 4WD - more room, same gas mileage as mine.
Friend #2: Suburban - much more room, claims to get 21 mpg.
Glubash
Thanks,
Chintan Talati
Corporate Communications
Edmunds.com
Input???
Thanks!
The review that I pulled the quote from also has a link to the specs you can check out while waiting for responses from owners.
Steve, Host
We up data you soon.
I understand there were a couple of related TSBs (03-09-40-006A SEP 04 Restraint System - Front seat belt retractor jamming, 02-09-40-003 SEP 02 Passenger seat belt too tight) as well as a recal(l (04037 JUN04 Recall front seat belt retractor defect NHTSA capaign 04V201000).
I went to the dealer today (Stevens Creek in Santa Clara CA) and the service rep. said that the vehicle was beyond warranty and this recall did not show up on their system. Also quoted me roughly ~120/parts and $160 labor for a total of $280 to fix it.
A few questions for this board:
a) My vehicle is not on the recall list - apparently only covers build dates up to 20020131. Given how common this problem seems to be (261,801 units recalled!) - how does GM decide the cut off date for the recall?
b) Any others here who have Feb 2002+ build dates with the same problem?
c) Should GM be covering this or am I out of luck? If the former, how can I get them to authorize the dealer to do the repair?
d) If not, is the ~$300 price reasonable? Is this DIY'able? I tried gmpartsdirect.com to look for parts and the parts there appear to be $40-60 or so. But they have several parts numbers, including "2-door" and "4-door versions - as far as I know there are NO 2-door 2002 Envoys so their catalog/part #s seems suspect.
Thanks in advance for your help!
e) PS while I'm at it, how easy is it to change the air filter?
The air filter is a easy DIY. Remove the air filter box cover take out old filter and install new.
b. Don't know
c. Call the 800 number and complain, they have a process to follow and stay calm with them and sometimes they will help you out.
d. Based on labor rates of $80-$85 the $300 charge is normal for any work done on a car today. Figure 2 hours labor plus parts marked up at least 1.5 times the cost at gmpartsdirect.com also the 2 door they may be refering to was the old model S-10/Jimmy which GM kept making until 2004.
e. don't know
I was looking into buying a Trailblazer to replace my Astro van but decided not to due to the numerious transmission, A/C and stalling problems. I will stick with the old technology that is more reliable and my van has more passenger and cargo space than a TB EXT anyway.