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Buick Rainier, Chevy TrailBlazer, GMC Envoy

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Comments

  • drew_drew_ Member Posts: 3,382
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  • paracanaryparacanary Member Posts: 14
    Is the receiver hitch on the 2002 Bravada strong enough to carry a 350# motorcycle (no trailer) off road. The manual states that the max tongue weight is 750# but the hitch has a label of 400# max. Even though the bike and carrier is less that 400#, it will be sticking out 2 feet and will be bounce around alot off road.
  • akajoeakajoe Member Posts: 69
    The 0 down, 0 interest, 0 payments until 2/02 applies to customers taking delivery from dealer stock by 5/1/01 which gives you the month of April to find a dealer with Bravada's in stock. The best way is to go to an internet site like carpoint.msn.com or carsmart.com, enter your zip code and radius in miles that you are willing to travel to pick up the car, and model/options you want. They'll notify dealers in your area and the ones with Bravada's will contact you by email or phone. Then you can avoid visiting dealers with no inventory.

    Concerning your loan payments, when the deferred loan kicks in in 2/02, and you pay down your principle by $15K, your payments won't decrease because the payment amount is based on the loan contract and cannot change. The only thing that can change is the term (number of payments) based on remaining principle. Make sure there is no penalty for prepayment.

    Again, the deferred loan for a year is a great deal - particularly if you get a great price on the Bravada and you really like the car. It is worth easily $1600 in interest that GM is paying for (assuming $32K price, 5% interest per year). Your $15K in money market account will further earn more than $700. Pocket this, and apply it over the life of the loan to pay part of the loan payment and reduce the out-of-pocket monthly payments. Of course, financially the best thing to do is to paydown $15K up front since a money market account probably won't earn as much interest as the car loan rate. However, this doesn't work if you need to get the loan payments lower.

    My Bravada is pewter. It is sort of the color of those new faucets from Price Pfister. It hides dirt very well, is not too loud and offends no-one.
  • rthammerrthammer Member Posts: 8
    OK What's the deal? GM dealers in my area can't locate a Trailblazer anywhere on their computer. They even suggest that all these I'm reading about here are actually the old s-10 blazer trailblazer. Can anyone out there explain this to me? If there are so many on some lots, why can't our dealers locate them? These are the 2002 models aren't they?

    Also I,am still getting conflicting responses on the 3% holdback. What's the deal? I'm so confused.
  • earlcearlc Member Posts: 34
    You obviously have a very dumb dealer or either they are lying to you because the new 2002 Trailblazers are in the GM computer. I have been to 3 dealers so far and all of them went into GM's computer and printed out all the details of the TB's including all options, invoice prices and MSRP, etc. All the dealers in my area (Atlanta) have numerous new 2002 Trailblazers on hand. I suggest you find you a better dealer.
  • ruskiruski Member Posts: 1,566
    why don't you go to www.gmbuypower.com and find all the matching vehicles in your area. Then you can print it out, take it to your dealer and make him look like a moron.
  • b4zb4z Member Posts: 3,372
    There are currently no trailblazers or bravadas in Chas. SC. I guess we are way down on the list.
    Holdback is on MSRP which includes shipping.
  • earlcearlc Member Posts: 34
    Very good idea, ruski. I didn't think of that.
  • b4zb4z Member Posts: 3,372
    Trailblazer is not listed as a model on that site.
    If you put in 2002, the only available model is the Cadillac Escalade. If you put in 2001 and chose Chevrolet, it is not listed. Try it.
  • spellboundspellbound Member Posts: 77
    They are producing them now and any dealer should be able to go into the computer and see regional allocation, what's being built ect.

    If you want something special or unusual and don't mind waiting a couple of months any dealer should also be able to do a factory order. Usually for a minimum amount above invoice as it doesn't have to sit on their lot, take up time etc. Deal with a fleet rep for this. The only downside is the wait and that you will not know for sure in advance what incentives you can take advantage of. You'd just have to see what incentives are in place when you take delivery.
  • bkjohnsonbkjohnson Member Posts: 17
    Just curious if anyone here is waiting until 2003 or later Trailblazers come out. Do any of you have reservations about buying a first year production vehicle? I've heard horror stories, and to be honest, I'm a little hesitant.

    My husband isn't too concerned, as he says he trust GM more than say Dodge, when it comes to first year production.
  • akajoeakajoe Member Posts: 69
    I had the same reservations before buying my Bravada. This applies in general to all vehicles of all makes, domestic and imports. Automobiles are very complex and its going to get worse before it gets better. With tens of thousands of design items in a car that has to be tested and validated individually and as an integrated system for mechanical fit, functional and wear/tear testing in each car, it is virtually impossible to fully test every thing.

    The increasing software content doesn't help. Software by its very nature is inherently complex and bug oriented. Heck, the drive by wire throttle is software. Under the circumstances, it is understandable why some features on our wish lists often don't make it into production in the first year or two. It is an accomplishment that they get their first production units as good as they do - this goes for any car manufacturer.

    Not to put the fear of god in new car buyers - there is signficant science, engineering and methodology that makes this all possible. If I had a choice, I would have waited until the next model year before getting my Bravada. Unfortunately, somebody totaled my Chevy S10 Blazer and I had no choice. There simply was nothing else that I liked besides this trio of Trailblazer, Envoy, Bravada. I originally was leaning to the TB, but alas, there aren't any to be had. Olds arrived first, but I'm happy that I ended up with the Bravada.

    The 5y warranty goes a long way to help my worries - next year the warranty probably won't be there. The financing deal is also a big help which I don't think will be repeated. My experience with GM has been very good. Given these parameters, I went for it.

    Good luck.
  • paracanaryparacanary Member Posts: 14
    Is the receiver hitch on the 2002 Bravada strong enough to carry a 350# motorcycle (no trailer) off road. The manual states that the max tongue weight is 750# but the hitch has a label of 400# max. Even though the bike and carrier is less that 400#, it will be sticking out 2 feet and will be bounce around alot off road.
  • markornomarkorno Member Posts: 2
    I have not yet seen the Polo Green color for the 2002 Bravada. In Oldsmobiles literature, they indicate that this color as "late production". Does anyone know when this color will be hitting the dealers?
  • dindakdindak Member Posts: 6,632
    First year cars are indeed scary regardless of the manufacturer. Even Honda which has a better than average record had lots of problems with the first year of the Oydessey. That being said, my mom has a first year 99 Alero with no major issues to date. Only problem was a sticky door.. big deal.
  • akajoeakajoe Member Posts: 69
    So far, I've had my Bravada for a couple of weeks, and am still loving it. No problems so far, still in the 500 mile break-in period. I'm still the only one in town with one of these. Bravada's are still far and few in between, even when at the height of production, so it will keep it's uniqueness.

    I am feeling much more confident as time goes on - defects will show up earlier than later. And that 5/60 warranty makes me feel much better than getting a second year unit with just the 3/36 warranty. The warranty really was the clincher for me as to go ahead and get it the first year out. (getting free for a year didn't hurt either). I have no doubt that after 2004, assuming dealers accept the Olds phaseout by then, the Bravada as the other Olds models will get adopted under a different nameplate like Caddilac. So the logo is different, big deal. The Caddy logo is pretty stately though not as cool as the Olds swoosh. The Bravada will still be a great vehicle no matter who does the marketing. It is too good a vehicle for GM to write off. So I don't worry about support for the car.

    There is one other theory that I've heard from many - first year out usually uses the most heavy duty components because of the lack of time to cost optimize, and the need to reduce risk of recalls and defects getting out into the field (costs beaucoup bucks to fix). So they go conservative and use battle proven hardware where they can, and go conservative on the new components in their design and robustness. Costs are more, weight is more, but they have too much to deal with in getting production up before they can get into optimizing every door handle and mounting hardware. As the design gets rung out over multple seasons, they begin to attachk the costs and weight issues by redesign or substitution. By the last season, many parts that were originally metal or solid are now plastic or hollow, but cost and weight reduced. I've seen this in many Japanese cars. First year was much more metal, following years were very different and a lot more plastic.
  • bradhughsouthbradhughsouth Member Posts: 2
    I have heard that GM will come out with 7 passenger in the fall in an extended version of the current new trailblazer. But...they will only offer it with the 5.3L Vortec V8. I find this dissappointing, as I really like the looks of the new inline 6. Have any of you heard this???
  • spellboundspellbound Member Posts: 77
    Well it's a fact the 1st model year vehicles, especially American made ones generally have more problems or issues than the follow on years as they usually will correct or fix these issues in each subsequent year. But if a vehicle has numerous problems resale value will reflect that.

    But having said that who can wait a few model years to see how reliability is. You either need or want a vehicle now or not. The 5/60 warranty should help with the comfort factor. Any problems or issues would likely be fixed, it would just be the inconvenience of dealing with it.
  • earlcearlc Member Posts: 34
    A recent post mentioned a GM dealer in North Carolina named 98.com that sells all new vehicles at $98. over invoice price. I contacted them with all info I wanted in a new Trailblazer and they E mailed me a price which was in fact invoice price plus $98.00, plus $88.00 Dealer prep, plus $285.00 for advertising. Not exactly 98 over is it? More like $471. over. Has anyone else had any experience with this dealer. I've noticed that some of my local dealers add in the $285. advertising price and some do not. Does anyone have any info on this?
  • sactokensactoken Member Posts: 10
    Just spoke to a GMC dealer who said that Buick will have a version of the TB/Envoy out soon? He even had a name for it, but I forgot.

    FYI on inventory: Sacramento/NorCal hasn't seen one TrailBlazer yet, and I don't think we have an olds dealer per se. Some are gone, and some have merged with the GMC dealership. Very few Envoys (no SLTs) are in, but no Bravadas.

    When you tell the sales rep other areas have them they look at you like they wish you would just go away.

    carsdirect.com has the vehicles listed as a factory order item, albeit with old photos.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Are you thinking of the Buick Rendezvous?

    Steve
    Host
    Vans, SUVs, and Aftermarket & Accessories message boards
  • svmansvman Member Posts: 25
    If you are thinking of the Rendezvous, it is NOT another version of the Envoy/TBlazer/Bravada. The Buick is smaller and much less powerful (185 HP vs. 270 HP)
  • beach15beach15 Member Posts: 1,305
    Has anyone seen a 2wd Bravada yet? I really don't think that I would need the 4wd here in Delaware except for maybe the two days that it snows. One site sad that it would have lat availability but I'm not sure. I'm almost convinced that the 2002 Bravada is a word-class and terrific new vehicle.

    As for the 5/60 warranty and zero, zero, zero deal that is supposed to end on May 1, 2001 I really don't think that it will be the end of the great incentives. They can only get better from here on out. What are some of the prices anyone has been getting?

    Oh, if any of you have digital cameras you should sanp a few pics of your cool new rides and post the links here. On the 300M board, that's all we do and almost every other posting has a link to someone's pictures. Try it, it would make this site so much better by being able to see some actual vehicles.

    The local dealer has had a dark blue Bravada for about two weeks and they got a new Pewter one this week. The pewter looks a lot better than the blue. I've also seen a black 2002 Bravada around where I live for about a month or so. No Trailblazers or Envoys around here yet. I have seen many truckloads of the 2002 Explorer and Mountaineer--I still think the GM SUV's are much better!

    Still, any information on the 2wd model?
  • lyndellwlyndellw Member Posts: 31
    As I stated some weeks ago that I had an Envoy on the way. Well I took delivery yesterday. It has every option but sunroof. Today I drove to St Louis which is 125 mile. So I have 274 miles on it with absolutly no complaints! The air suspension seemed no different than conventional suspension to me. Of course all driving has been on the interstate so far. Now all the talk about wind noise, I had some when I started out this morning. I had a supplement in my owners manual that wind noise might be a problem if the luggage rack cross bars where not set right. The manual says to put the rear one all the way to the back, and the front one centered over the back door opening. (what ever that means) Anyway, I put the front one all the way forward. Presto, no wind noise. I hit 75 for a short time to check it out. The michelin tires do make a noise on some road surfaces. I'll post more info when I have more miles on it. I did notice on the fuel display that my average mileage was 18.6 mpg.
  • dindakdindak Member Posts: 6,632
    I think he was talking about the Rendezvous which should hit dealers in a month or so. I would not be surprised if the Bravada became a Buick in a few years though.
  • jbossertjbossert Member Posts: 38
    Placing the moveable cross-bars in the correct location on the roof makes a world of difference in wind noise. I placed the rear bar all the way back, and the front bar in line with the rear crack of the rear door. With the bars in this location I get no wind noise at all. If I move the front bar forward a couple of feet or more, the wind noise picks up significantly!! It's quite possible that this is the reason for the huge difference of opinion on this board with regard to Trailblazer/Envoy/Bravada wind noise. I have been driving my Trailblazer for over 3 weeks and it is by far the quietest and smoothest GM SUV that I have owned (vs. 98 Tahoe and 96 Blazer). At this point my only complaint is that the muffler is WAY too visible from the back.
  • paracanaryparacanary Member Posts: 14
    Does the manual mention anything about putting the car on a lift and letting the axle hang free. Does this stretch the suspension airbags?
  • paracanaryparacanary Member Posts: 14
    Is there a difference between Autotrac on the Envoy and Smarttrack on the Bravada?
  • scottnsc1scottnsc1 Member Posts: 16
    This is the e-mail quote that I got from 98over.com:

    2002 GMC Envoy
    TS15506 4dr 2WD SLT

    VEHICLE SUMMARY: MSRP
    Base Vehicle: 31,595.00
    Total Options: 1,020.00 (Options I chose)
    Advert/Adjustments: 0.00
    Destination Charge: 600.00
    Total Price: $33,215.00

    VEHICLE SUMMARY: Invoice
    Base Vehicle: 28,593.48
    Total Options: 877.20
    Advert/Adjustments: 326.15
    Destination Charge: 600.00
    Total Price: $30,396.83 plus $98 $30,494.83

    (Note: this is copied from the e-mail that I received from the dealer.)

    I have checked these figures vs. Edmunds, carsdirect, and priceline and in every case they seem accurate.

    It has always been my understanding that the advertising fee is not negotiable because it is built in by the regional GM/Ford/DC office. I might be wrong on that.

    $88 for dealer prep is not bad either when you think that the dealer is paying someone to prep that vehicle for sale. You wouldn't want it in the condition it comes off the truck. Trust me on that!

    My local dealer adds a $595 'Environmental Package' (whatever that is) to all of his vehicles. That's the kind of crap that you need to be aware of and avoid.
  • b4zb4z Member Posts: 3,372
    Dealers are paid by the manufacturer to prep the car.
  • earlcearlc Member Posts: 34
    I have been shopping around for about 3 weeks for a new Trailblazer. Have driven several and really do like them. I have the best price that I am going to get by buying from a personal friend at a local dealer. I have received prices from 6 dealers. I am ready to place an order but can't make up my mind between the white exterior or the pewter color. I have not actually seen a white one yet but have seen several other colors. The dealers I visited do not have a white one and say they just have to take what GM sends them.
    Has anyone seen a white one? Maybe they are not producing white yet. Anyway, if by chance someone has a good photo of a white TB, please post it if you can so I can see it. Thanks
  • gasman1gasman1 Member Posts: 321
    It sounds like this major problem may be solved. That's GREAT!!! It's DUMB that eithr GM didn't bother to inform dealers of cross bar fix or that the dealers chose to ignore it. Thanks for the information.

    However, it's to late for me. The Toyota Highlander will be delivered in a few days.

    I hope that the 2002 GM products do well.
  • lyndellwlyndellw Member Posts: 31
    I read it somewhere that autotrac in auto mode is the same as smarttrack.
  • akajoeakajoe Member Posts: 69
    There is a difference between smarttrak and autotrac in auto mode. Smartrak has a locking rear differential as standard which controls side to side slippage between the rear wheels. Autotrak does not come standard with the locking rear differential, which is an option. With the optional locking rear differential, autotrak auto mode is the same as smartrak.

    4WD-HI mode of autotrac is a feature activated by the switch which engages the wetclutch in the power splitter right behind the transmission at a 100% duty cycle. This results in 50/50 power split to front/rear with no differential action between front and rear drive shafts. Therefore, this is not for dry pavement because such use would result in drive shaft wind-up and wear and damage to the drive trains.

    4WD-LO mode kicks in an low gear in the transmission as well as locks the power splitter wetclutch. This is a feature that smartrak does not have. This is also not for dry pavement.

    Note: in smartrak and autotrac auto mode, 50/50 power split is theoretically possible, but practically impossible. 50/50 power split can only be accomplished when the wetclutch engages at 100% duty cycle. When this occurs, the sensors would detect no speed difference between the front and rear drive shafts and this would result in disengagement of the wetclutch resulting in less than 100% duty cycle engagement and therefore less than 50/50 split. This is why autotrac provides the 4WD-HI and 4WD-LO modes - to enable control of power split as well as to guarantee even power distribution to front/rear when it is really needed such as in offroad situations. Smartrak is designed for civilized use on roads under a variety of intrepid weather conditions, not for the challenges of offroad use. It is intended to maintain power to the wheels in order to keep vehicle stability under such conditions.
  • stevelongstevelong Member Posts: 2
    My wife is a CM employee. Our understanding is that the Bravada will eventually be rebadged as a Cadillac ... and that the Aurora will become a Chevrolet. The Buck Rendezvous is a version of the butt-ugly Pontiac Aztec. FWIW - the 2nd year Aztec will receive an exterior takeover, and a lower base price. I think the Rendevous looks g-r-e-a-t ... Pontiac should be ashamed of itself for making such an UGLY vehicle!
  • mattgoofymattgoofy Member Posts: 6
    He there everyone. I test drove the 2002 MC Envoy and enjoyed it, however the test drive was in the city. I am going to test drive it again on the highway in order to determine how bad the wind noise is. My previous experience with CM has not been a positive on. My 1997 Old Cutlass has tremendous wind noise. This weekend I am going to test drive the Toyota Highlander. My friend who works for the auto industry says it is a Great UV. However it is smaller and narrowed then the MC.

    Also I am looking to lease my next UV. If the GMC is going to be that expensive, I guess I will have to either get the Ford or Toyota.

    Please continue with the comments.

    Matt
  • tonysracingtonysracing Member Posts: 80
    I just found out that to get a sunroof on the Trailblazer LS, you have to also buy the $850 OnStar service!! You get one year free service, but at $199-$399 a year, I doubt I will purchase it when i carry a PCS phone. So then I get to explain "what's that blue little button?", then I have to say, "oh that, it doesnt work". I'm considering purchasing another vehicle because of that, who wants options that wont work unless you subscribe to a service?
  • paracanaryparacanary Member Posts: 14
    This is on of my pet peeves also. I think there are going to be a number of people with the on star system that do not have the contract and that it will eventually be hacked. This is what I would like to do.
    1) interface my own cell phone into the onstar circuit. You would have the advantage of 3 watts out thru the external antenna, be able to control the car with another phone and hands free cell phone calls.

    2) Put a Garmin III moving map display in the glasses holder. The GPS antenna and power is just 6 inches away.
  • david3637david3637 Member Posts: 7
    Drove the TB today, an LT model. Can sum it up in one word; CHEAP. The interior materials were very low rent.
    Top of dash was soft plastic, but bottom part was hard plastic, huh??
    Why not make the whole thing out of the soft stuff? Seat material felt chinzy and not real comfy. Overall fit and finsh is poorly executed. Outside, the black plastic trim on the front, rear and body side moldings looks crappy. And why can you get body colour side moldings on the base LS, but not on the uplevel LT. Should'nt it be the other way around? The only bright spot was the engine, sort of. The power was good, and it was smooth, but it was very LOUD. The tranny did not shift as smooth as it should have. Ride and handling was just OK, but it still has the solid live axel jitters over the bumps. Ford wised up and went with the independent rear susp. I guess the General is a slow learner. All of this is totally inexcuseable on a 30K-plus truck. Well General, you blew it again!

    Point me towards the Toyota dealership, so I can order my Highlander. At least I know I'll get what I pay for there; QUALITY!!
  • dindakdindak Member Posts: 6,632
    You test drove a Blazer LT which is near the bottom of the line. If you want to compare apples to apples, try out a Bravada or a Envoy. I think the Trailblazer is fine, but I am not used to driving an Acura like you are. Highlander is ok, but it's no looker. The sloped rear makes it look droopy.
  • dindakdindak Member Posts: 6,632
    Anyone seen any of these three models in Ontario yet? My local dealer has nothing but I've seen 2 on the road in the Toronto area and I saw a trailer full of them also.
  • ducatist4ducatist4 Member Posts: 28
    I own a 2001 Old Aurora V8 with 6000 miles, and I am very happy. The engine is smooth, strong, and quiet. The interior has a few minor tweaks, occasionally, and imperceptible to most, but I am picky. I just bought a 2002 Bravada, pewter with the convenience package and heated heats. Love it. No wind noise, and I drive it daily on the highways. Smooth, (not really torque), quiet, and the interior has no rattles. Rides nice, handles okay. And I got it for $29000, after buying at invoice, loyalty money, and college gad incentive. Extended warranty, and 0/0/0, this deal was SUPER.

    On star is expensive and pretty useless, hopefully when the cellular service becomes available everywhere they will lower the price to be competitive.

    The plastic is hard, but I didn't spend $40000 plus. Sorry so lengthy, but these autos are great.
  • brianb8brianb8 Member Posts: 1
    test drove new envoy , well this cured my lusting for another gm product . as a current jimmy owner, i can get into and out of the rear seats better on the old style than the new envoy. the wood trim could be better replaced w\brushed nickel. the ride was fine, but i would like to get the larger tires that the bravda offers. i have not purchaced a new style yukon , because the general felt that they could force people into having only 2 choices of leather , instead of offering charcoal grey as they did in old style yukons. i bot 5 new gm products in last 7 yrs, and my gm card rebates is burning a hole in my pocket , but GM must not cars about what the buyers want anymore. could do without the minivan look on the rear of the envoy. did like the radio controls and driver info system , need to put these on yukons to replace the current steering wheel controls in denali.
  • earlcearlc Member Posts: 34
    I fully agree with the comments concerning the forcing of ONStar on you by GM. Most people I've talked to have no interest in it especially since it expires in one year unless you renew it at a high price. I'm interested in the Trailblazer LT but do not want the OnStar but have no choice. This is anexpensive item that GM should have made an option because they are going to lose a lot of sales due to this. GM continues to play the old "Rip-off the consumer" game. They will never learn.
  • dindakdindak Member Posts: 6,632
    While I am not interested in paying for On Star, no one is forcing anyone to subscribe. After your free year is up, dump it. Many people (especially those that drive out of town a lot) find On Star a great value. Personally I would get little use out of it unless it included a cell phone I could take out of the truck.
  • tonysracingtonysracing Member Posts: 80
    Dindak,
    You don't think that being made to buy the $850 OnStar equipment with the $650 sunroof is forced? I think it stinks out loud. I also dont want a non-functional option in my 1 year old vehicle. It seems to me that GM is pushing On Star. Why not have an interface that will work with my cell phone? The practice of packaging less popular options with popular options is a low business practice and gives me a lower opinion of GM.
  • myfunsunmyfunsun Member Posts: 15
    My parents just returned the Envoy that they are thinking about buying. I simply love the front end of this suv..it really stands out from the others. I also like how gm is finally starting to figure out how to screw its interiors together. Everything felt solid and tight. You want to see cheap plastic come and drive my 2000 sunfire. The thing started to rattle with only 500 miles on it!!
  • akajoeakajoe Member Posts: 69
    The local Chevrolet dealer just called me to let me know that their first Trailblazer just showed up. It is a pewter LT loaded to the level of an LTZ. Looks like TB's are starting to trickle into the south, about 3 weeks after the first Bravada's.
  • wildcard1wildcard1 Member Posts: 9
    1. Short people. Very little leg room for the 2nd seaters.

    2. Deaf people. Loud wind noise when doing over 40.

    3. Short deaf people.
  • cmikebcmikeb Member Posts: 2
    I picked up my Trailblazer LT with all the toys and leather on March 19 from Bast Chevy in Seafood NY. I have about 300 miles on it and love it. I have no wind noise that some people are talking about, the engine runs nice and smooth with the 3.42 rear and the ride is tight with no squeaks and rattles. Also, maybe it's different in other parts of the country, but the On star system was standard(double checked the sticker price to be sure) and I did not pay one dime for it. Will I keep it after the free year is up, I don't know. I plan on doing a lot of driving on vacations with this truck, so i'll keep an open mind. Otherwise, my hat is off to Chevy for building a solid truck that will finally give the blue oval a run for their money.
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