Buick Rainier, Chevy TrailBlazer, GMC Envoy

tlauro · November 2001

Here's how they compare:

Front into flat barrier
TB $811
Exploder $1,127

Rear into flat barrier
TB $0
Exploder $272

Front into angle barrier
TB $879
Exploder $2,334

Rear Into Pole
TB $755
Exploder $1,699

Totals of all Four Tests
TB $2,445
Exploder $5,432

Check out all the results here....look at the costs for some of them!!! WOW!!
http://www.hwysafety.org/vehicle_ratings/low_speed_midsuv.htm

What's funny is that the Institute also says "It's clear that the TrailBlazer's rear bumper design isn't a good one. For example, the bumper bar doesn't extend the full width of the vehicle. Consequently, there's no protection against damage at the rear corners. This is why we assessed the TrailBlazer from the frontal test results."

but......if the Hitch is standard then who cares? it becomes to me...the bumper...either way....no damage really.

allroy · November 2001

Does anyone have the 1sk package on the Envoy...if so..do ya like it?

doc35 · November 2001

I have had the same EXACT problem with my Envoy SLT. The A/C cranks and works great. But my nose and hands are freezing when it is supposed to be 70-75 degrees in my Envoy. The heat does crank at 90 and I often have it at that, but it blows COLD air at 70-80 even when it is 50 or below outside. I know that air "feels" colder when moving, but this is just not right. I suspect that the inside temperature sensor is faulty. My mom had a similar problem in her Jeep Grand Cherokee. I went to the dealer and they insist everything is ok. On top of that the air blows well through the center dash vents with A/C but barely chugs with heat, even in manual mode and only those vents selected. What gives?

Tim Lauro, when you find an answer, let me know, I will let you know likewise!

Thanks,

Freezing in Seattle,

Kirk
(thank god I got the heated seats!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)

lurker01 · November 2001

I'm also in Seattle and love the heated seats. I think I may have an answer for you on the heater. IMHO, the temp is correct. It is just that we are used to a heater that is on or off, not one that can blow hot or cold air even in winter. The system is trying to set a temp, so at first it heats and then when it overshoots, it lets some cool air in to correct. I keep mine at 72 and find it to be ok, but you don't get that baked effect that a manual system gives you. My Mom's old Jimmy had the auto HVAC and I first noticed this effect driving it in winter in Michigan.
So, while you may have an actual issue, it may just be that auto HVAC takes some getting used to. Just leave the seat heater on low and you'll be fine! ;-)

BTW: can anyone think of a reason to set the seats to high heat? It seems a bit too hot to me.

-John.

imototo · November 2001

This may not be any help for the HVAC problems I've been reading about but, FWIW, I "thought" I was having problems with my 2002 Bravada. To get warm, it seemed I had to have the fan on high (as well as the temperature). I found all that hot air blowing in my face very annoying after awhile. Dumb me didn't realize that by shutting down the dashboard vents, the air would be circulated to the vents located near the floor (didn't know there were vents near the floor!) My problem, for now, knock on wood, is solved. The interior heats up nicely without hot, blowing air anywhere.

tlauro · November 2001

well, they should have it fix today....leaving for work now, but we'll see.

I read the above and must say that while some may feal this auto HVAC is normal, I say it stinks if it is. My GTP worked much different and much better.

IMO, it shouldn't be blowing uncomfortable air from any vent when properly working. Sure, occasionally in the summer my GTP would blow colder air than I liked, but I attributed that to the sensor in the dash as the sun would beat down on it while on the hiway and even though the inside was cool, the system would think its a bit warmer. Still, I usually could set it to 76 and be fine.

Winter 72 was great. It would not start the fan until the vehicle warmed up. Then the heater vents only would come on with hot air that gradually mixed with cooler air as the system worked. I could actually listen and hear the air vents changing and mix of air from outside too. (nothing loud of course)

Heck, the Triplets shouldn't have affective heating and climate in the winter of temps only between 85-90 degrees. Again, I never left my other car(s) in that range...I'd cook!

We'll see. Perhaps they can put the brain from my GTP in there

agenteleven · November 2001

It is in the low 40s here, and my TB LTZ seems to heat beyond what I can withstand with the auto control set at 76 to 78.

I turned it down to 72 , and it wasn't as warm as some may have preferred, but it suited me fine. I like colder air, anyway, so I may not be a good judge. But I will say it heats a LOT better and faster than my wife's Intrepid auto climate control.

Let us know if they find anything, tlauro. And good luck... I know the feeling of hearing them say "It's so new we don't know enough about it." Inspires confidence, doesn't it?

coolsly2 · November 2001

Envoy or TB?
Envoy comes with 17", differents seats and what else? Does it worth to go with the Envoy?

Sylvain

tpellow · November 2001

I have an interesting phenomenon, my outside heated, electro-chromatic mirrors have "double vision" at night. When a car is about 4+ car lengths behind, I see 4 headlights instead of 2. It seems that this started after I had my TB LTZ washed last week. Has anyone else had or heard of a similar problem??

Tim

kudron · November 2001

I had the same problem when I got my Envoy. The dealer looked at and replaced it under warranty stating that the glass was defective.

Now if the dealer could just reprogram the memory properly...

acl1966 · November 2001

Again, I want to thank everyone for keeping up this board. I've really enjoyed reading all the comments posted, especially since I'm an Envoy owner. To answer allroy, I special ordered my Envoy SLT 4wd with the 1SK Package and running boards. It's black w/dark pewter. It was built on 8/24 and I took delivery on 9/6. It's now almost 3 months old and so far(knock on wood)no problems. This package is great, since it has everything to offer, including the DVD. The DVD 7" screen is great-very clear, with bright, vivid colors. The headphones sound excellent. When you turn it on, the smoked glass in front of the flip down screen lights up red. Looks nice, especially at night. It came with two wireless headphones and two wired headphones (which say General Motors)which can also be used in the rear radio controls. Also comes with a remote control and an introductory DVD, entitled "General Motors DVD Road Show". I'm very happy I ordered it. I heard from my dealership and by talking to GMC people at the recent auto show, I'm one of the first Envoy owners to have this option in the South Florida area. It's a costly package but well worth the investment. The Envoy tested in the Motor Trend SUV of the year had the same package. Motor Trend gave it a thumbs up. This vehicle truely lives up to its name, "Professional Technology".

wampanaug · December 2001

I'm seriously looking at the TB/LT and Envoy/SLE and, like many of you, find salespeople close to clueless. I currently drive a Volvo 740 with a Thule roof rack to carry two kayaks, and need/want to be able to do this with the TB/Envoy.
Does anyone have any experience in this area? Can Thule rails mount on the GM roof rack?
Am I going to need running boards to get up that high?

quickdtoo · December 2001

Go to thuleracks.com and check out their racks to make sure.

Tim

allroy · December 2001

Well you sold me...I am driving up from Miami to Orlando tomorrow to pick mine up...same color, same package...they offered me $34,956...which from talking to other local dealers sounded pretty good...now if only they will give me a good trade! :P

heng · December 2001

I posted a question on the locking diffs that are on some Envoys in the 4WD section but got no response yet.

Anyone here know how it is actuated?

tpellow · December 2001

acl1966, you said earlier that you received 4 headphones with your Envoy (2 wireless, 2 wired). I have a TB LTZ with the DVD but only received the 2 wireless in an opened box. Did you get both sets in the same box or were there 2 separate boxes? As far as I knew I was only supposed to get the 2 wireless ones.

Thanks, Tim

quickdtoo · December 2001

I'm not an expert here as I haven't received my FSM cuz they're backordered, but the rear diff acts like a Torsen gear locker which is a good unit, won't know for sure until I see the factory service manual....Tim

iws · December 2001

GM sells a set of racks for the TB as well as an optional adaptor for Kayaks. The bars are called load stop carriers and come with uprights for securing a canoe, ladder, wood load etc. The racks are lockable and very secure. Good for 200 lbs if I recall. I bought a set and keep them in the cargo area...install and lock in about 1 minute. Nice fit, the adaptors attach to the stock slide rails and I have used mine for my canoe as well as carrying a bed and other things. Nice set. Also they come with 4 web straps for securing the load. GM ordered them and had them in next day. Check with your dealer, they are in the assessory catalog. .

hardhawk · December 2001

I am going to get a new Body Control Module to fix the wandering memory mirror problem. Had the transmission recall done and can tell no difference. Outside of the wandering mirrors, have had no other problems in 4+ months and almost 7000 miles. Still love that Envoy! Can hardly wait for a big snow to try out the 4WD.

acl1966 · December 2001

Thought I'd share some background first. I live in Miami, Fla. and special ordered the Envoy through my credit union. I found out the vehicle was ordered in St. Pete., Fla.-250 miles away. Prior to the vehicle arriving in St. Pete., I specified the vehicle not be touched at all until I got there. This was to prevent the workers from taking things off my truck before I got there. The Fleet Mgr. locked it and kept the keys with him until I got there. It arrived on the 9/4 and I got there on the 9/5. Purchased it on the 9/6. The dealer up there was great. They got me a hotel room near the dealership and after the purchase, it was trucked to Miami on a big car hauler. When I got there, the vehicle was exactly as it was when shipped from the factory. In the back was a huge shrink-wrap with all the manuals, air hose, floor mats and a big sealed box with the DVD stuff. It was sealed with a label which said "security label-do not open". I still have the box. Also in the shrink wrap were two other boxes with the wired headphones in them. They were each wrapped in black plastic bags (still are). They say "General Motors" on the head strap and have volume controls on the wires. These both have a jack which plugs into the front of the DVD or into the rear audio on the back of the center console. An Instruction sheet states "can be used with the DVD player or the rear seat audio system". The GM part # on the black bags are: GM#10440840 - genuine GM-made in China. Hope I answered your question. I'll look for your reply.

tpellow · December 2001

My situation was bit different. I wanted to wait till spring and pick up a TB EXT but my Blazer had some major repairs appear that forced me into purchasing a vehicle immediately. My dealer found exactly what I wanted about 100 miles away. When it arrived floor mats were still sealed but the box for the DVD stuff (DVD, wireless headphones & remote) was opened. If I was to get the wired headphones, there should have been another box because they couldn't fit in the DVD box. I'll call GM's customer service to get some more info today.

Thanks, Tim

c2h6o · December 2001

tpfellow: I have the same problem on my TB LTZ, although I've noticed it since day 1. Also - when you turn off the elctro-chromatic function (ie: make them "normal" mirrors), the double vision goes away. I chalk it up to the electro-chromatic layer mucking up the optics and creating a secondary reflective plane. I'm hesitant to get them replaced since I'm doubting that the fit will be as good as the original mirrors.
Also - my mirrors seem to be permanently in the "dimming" mode where they're pretty dark. Even during the day. Seems to me like the light sensor that's supposed to darken them when they're hit by headlights is a little too sensitive. Anyone else have this problem?

-Jason

c2h6o · December 2001

OK - I know these have all been listed before but 1) I'm lazy and would prefer not to search every message and 2) I don't think they've all been in one place before...

Anyway - does anyone have a complete list of all the after-market parts for the TrailBlazer along with the GM part Number? I'm looking for running boards, mud flaps, bug deflector, rain guards (door windows), etc etc. My parents' neighbor just picked up a new TB and he was saying he was having a hard time finding parts. I refered him to www.gmpartsdirect.com, but you need the part numbers to search effectively!

Thanks for the help!

-Jason

tlauro · December 2001

in no way am I being sarcastic, but have your buddy call a dealer or stop in. not many places if any have the new TB's or many 02 models up on the web to search on.

I got all mine at the dealer and they came in 1 week after I picked up my LTZ.

I'd list them if I had them handy.

tim

02 Trailblazer LTZ
http://www.timlauro.com/cars/trailblazer/1-main-page.html

flyersrule · December 2001

Well, just made my second payment on my TB LTZ Majestic Red Metallic with two-tone sandalwood Metallic.

Beautiful car, everybody looks at it.

So, what do I go and do. Well, I was leaving a parking garage in Atlantic city, when another car was entering. We both reach the same corner at the same time. She was coming up the ramp as I was going down. She was a little on my side of the line. We both stop. She was on my left, a concrete wall was on my right. I needed to make a right hand turn. I asses the situation and decide that I have enough room to make it. Boy, was I wrong. As I started to go, my passenger mirror hit that wall and bends back. No big deal, I think. So I keep on going and proceed to scrape the entire passenger side of the car. UUGGHHH.

My first accident in 22 years of driving. Boy, do I feel stupid. Totally my fault. Not sure why I didn't stop. Just kept on going. UUGGHHH.

Took car to auto body. Estimate: $3200 UUGGHHH
Auto body starts to take apart, realizes there is more damage under the skins. New estimate: $4500 UUGGHHH

The front door needs a new skin. The rear door needs to be replaced. The rear quarter panel needs to be replaced. Then repaint all!

God only know if this will look the same as my original beautiful color. Who knows if the car will be as tight as the original!

Well, my insurance is covering everything except my deductible of $500. I wonder how much they will raise my rates next year!

I rented a car for the mean time, and what do you think they give, a LS Trailblazer! This is actually a good thing. My car has vibrations in the gas pedal (besides the 52 mph problem) most of the time. The rented car does not have that problem. So at least I know it isn't me and there is something going on in the pedal. The auto body is at dealer. They are going to give it to the service department when they are done to take care of the following:
Vibration in pedal at 51 mph
Vibrations in pedal at other times..I 'feel' the road
Wandering mirror
Car pulls to right
Trans Recall
Sloppy trans at times

Still love the car. Hopefully, auto body will do a great job and service will fix everything!!!

c2h6o · December 2001

tlauro: My parents' neighbor tried to order the parts from the local dealer. I think he was able to get the bug deflector - but he's been waiting about 2 months for the running boards, and the dealer wasn't even able to locate any info on other parts (mud flaps, rain guards).

Guess that's the hazards of owning a new model year vehicle.

-Jason

agenteleven · December 2001

Sincerely sorry to hear about your mishap.

Keep your chin up, and keep us updated on your TB's progress.

harrycohen · December 2001

edl55347
Yes I did get it fixed. I've only driven it a few times since, but haven't had a problem. They removed the tailgate and welded it back into place. That fixed the alignment issue. As for the tail light, they put in a new one and there is still a gap, but it is not nearly as noticeable as before.

flyguy7 · December 2001

Finally got what the dealer thinks is a solution to my howling noise in the front. They had three techs look at it and all agreed that it is the left front hub that is eating itself up. They have overnighted and will install it tomorrow. Funny I though oit was the right one that was doing this. Anyway I'm gone all week and will let you know next week if this fixes it. If not GM gets a letter and an offer to take the vehicle back. This is the third try to fix this. Has anyone looked at their rear bumper? Is yours off center? If I compare both sides there is about .5" difference between them. Noticeable, but not worth having them fix for fear of causing more problems. This also is noticeable at the rear wheelwells.

fletch45 · December 2001

I recently ordered the mud flaps through the local Chevy dealer. $30. per pair. Their catalog says the front flaps won't work with running boards, but they do, without a sign of interference. Easy to install, too. Check with your parts department... they should have them in less than a week.

The dealer where I bought my TB keeps the rain guards (like Ventvisors, but GM's package) in stock. They are $72 per set. You should be able to order them through the parts dept.

Good luck.
jim f

marsha7 · December 2001

comparison topic, but did any of you Envoy and Trailblazer folks look at the Explorer and Mountaineer from Ford, and what pushed you to buy the TB/Envoy...for that matter, why did you buy a TB over Envoy, or vice-versa???

quickdtoo · December 2001

Didn't like the grill of the Envoy, otherwise it was a toss up. Wouldn't even consider an exploder, too many horror stories both on the net and personal friends. Mountaineer has no low range to boot! Tim

tpellow · December 2001

Actually looked at '02 Explorer, MDX, X5, Durango and an Envoy (not in that order, though) before deciding on my TB LTZ. Based on looks I liked the TB, X5 and MDX. Price-wise I seem to remember the Durango being cheapest loaded (extreme aversion to MOPAR). But the overall features especially the factory DVD, agressive styling and modest price sold me on the TB. The Envoy just doesn't appeal to me as much as the TB does.

Tim

coolsly2 · December 2001

Just purchased a TrailBlazer LT Majestic Red with optionnal tires. Paid 38500$ CAN$ (about 24838$ USD$)

I would like to know what are the recall numbers so I could check right when i'll pick-up the truck to know if they've been made or not!

Thank's!

Sylvain

tlauro · December 2001

I looked at the Ford and Merc, but the Ford was way too plain looking and the V8.....we'll, just don't compare it to the Jeep GC....makes it feel like my 83 Gutlass Supreme V6.

The Merc wasn't as plain but really just didn't do it for me style wise. V8 was again, no biggie, but I do like the AWD.

The Envoy....real nice, but even with my GM discount more than the Trailblazer for essencially the same stuff. The inside is pretty nice with the few different touches, but the costs was several thousand more and I'd rather have that in my pocket

tim
02 Trailblazer LTZ

agenteleven · December 2001

Call me shallow, but I didn't like the instrument cluster in the Explorer... that alone kept me from considering the rest of the vehicle.

My wife liked the TB LTZ over the Envoy.

hambone7 · December 2001

I agree...the new Explorer instrument cluster is the cheapest looking I've ever seen on a car or truck.

allroy · December 2001

Just curious, how much did you pay for yours in Miami?

zecgeotz · December 2001

Does anyone know where I can purchase one? Does Olds have it? I would prefer it on CD.

estelja · December 2001

What gas mileage are you fellow Vortec 4200 owners getting? My Envoy SLT with 3.73 rear end and 1100 miles is only averaging 14.5 - 15 mpg mixed HWY/City. Granted, this is with the 10% ethanol gas currently in Denver during the winter but even with real gas that would only be about 16 mpg. Should I assume that this will get better as the engine breaks in more? Thanks, Jim

ivan105 · December 2001

in response to post 2855. you can order the repair manuals by going to the GM.COM web page. it is listed under the company store if you click their site map

marsha7 · December 2001

magically become a Buick next year, as GM phases out Oldsmobile, or will they just discontinue the version entirely, leaving just the Envoy and TB? Also, any comments on the Bravada's air bladder rear suspension as compared with the other two?

flyguy7 · December 2001

That is what I get in town using the 85/86 octane available in New Mexico. On the highway I get about 18-19. Just like the sticker said. Altitude has a lot to do with it.

fievel · December 2001

I had a discussion with a GM Rep. at a local Auto show a few weeks ago, and to his best knowledge the Olds Bravada will simply fade away in a few years, or at least by the time the Envoy/Trailblazer is due for a restyling (perhaps 2006?). He said GM believes that the market for the product will be adequately filled by the Envoy and TB. Cadillac is also developing a SUV, nothing like the triplets, and may be similar to one soon offered by Saab. He also said that it is likely that the Tahoe/Yukon will have a mild restyling next year, focusing on things like 17-inch wheels and an upgraded interior to give it many of the bells and whistles that are available on the current Envoy/TB.

tcd2 · December 2001

Trailblazer owners, I have a chance to buy a Trailblazer LT with upgraded stereo package(radio,cass., cd) otherwise standard LT package, for $29500. MSRP of $31640. Is this a good deal? Dealer will not budge on price. Also, when I test drove it I noticed a loud relay click click sound when I pressed on the brake. The sound came from the brake pedal area and the shifter box. I know there is a safety switch that wont let you shift into gear unless the brake is applied but should I be hearing the loud clicking noise? I didn't hear it in other models that I test drove -LS & LTZ. Thanks for the comments. Future TB owner I hope.....

acl1966 · December 2001

I read your reply on the DVD. Did you purchase your Envoy in Orlando? Not to far from where I got mine. Actually, as I stated in an earlier post, I ordered my Envoy through my credit union in Miami, since the dealers here in Miami never heard of the 1SK package and were basically charging sticker price on the stripped models they had on their lots. I placed my order on 7/6. Found out the order was placed through a fleet department at a St. Pete. GMC dealership. At the time of the order the 1SK package wasn't available yet. The credit union gave me a price of $32,956. SLT 4wd, running boards and 1SK. They also had to work a trade on the vehicle I was driving, 98 Toyota RAV4. I was quoted $13,000 for the RAV. The Envoy was built 8/24, or one week before the price increase. The fleet manager called me and said they would have to add $1500 to the price or $34,456. They said the fleet price on the invoice was more than what they originally figured. Sticker was $38,010. Also after 2 months, my trade decreased by $500. So it came to $34,456 minus $12,500. I took delivery on 9/6, before the 0% financing came about. Put some cash down and had a rebate from GM card. Financed the rest at the credit union @6.5%. It wasn't a great deal but that RAV was beginning to get on my nerves and the Envoy turned out to be one great vehicle. I put the Zaino on it, and it looks great. Hope your happy with yours.

tlauro · December 2001

on a $31,640 truck, after factoring in about $300 in advertising, true dealer invoice is just about $29,000 even.

$500 is pretty fair in my book. I'd say take it.

The clicking noise you are hearing....if it sounds as you depress the brake....it's the Brake Shift Interlock mech. that you mentioned. No big deal. Will all have it.

tim
2002 LTZ
Former Dealer

allroy · December 2001

Honk if you see me because I have one just like you! :P I couldnt handle it anymore...my 2001 Jetta lost $1000 last month( I couldnt believe it, darn nada and their montly black books!) so I put my money down...$100 below invoice MSRP 38,320 paid 34,856...0% financing though!

I probably could have got a good deal last month and saved $1000 on my trade but you live and you learn..On a locate there are only 2 more 1sks in the SE region...get em while you can!!

dindak · December 2001

Another guy on Town Hall was saying he was part of a on-line survey regarding the name of a new Buick SUV and the pictures were of Bravadas with new front end looks. My best guess is you will see Bravada phased out in the next 2 years. Intrigue is gone after this year and I think as Oldsmobile dealers shut down, the pressure will mount to change Bravada's division. They can not kill it as there is too much money to be made with a luxury branded SUV.

tcd2 · December 2001

The clicking in the brake shift mechanism bothers me. I know its propbably trivial but for a brand new truck I wouldn't think I should hear any noises. I rented the TB LS for 5 days and never heard the sound. I am 99% sure Im going to get it, should I have them replace this before I go off the lot. Hopefully some preventive measure would not lead to visits to the dealer in the future.

Buick Rainier, Chevy TrailBlazer, GMC Envoy

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