Buick Rainier, Chevy TrailBlazer, GMC Envoy

dindak · March 2001

Perhaps I'm missing something but isn't On Star included as standard equipment on most of the mid and upper trim levels (and all Bravadas)? I'm sure the equipment isn't free, but I don't think it's adding $850 to the price.

If you are trying to buy a base Trailblazer LS with a sun roof, I don't see anywhere that they force you to buy On Star either?

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Drove by the local lot on my way home tonight. Still nothing. :-(

earlc · March 2001

Does anyone know what the cost is from GM on the 5 year-60000 mile extended warranty??

jack51pine · March 2001

Dindak,
On Star is definitely a required option on the LS when ordering the sunroof. On Star is standard equipment on the LT and LTZ, but the cost is reflected in the base price of those vehicles, which is significantly more than a similarly equipped LS. A temperature readout and compass along with a self-dimming rearview mirror are included with the On Star, so the $850 gets you more than just the On Star.

9t9wu8 · March 2001

98% sure we will take the one our dealer has on order with our name on it.

I will share this vehicle with my wife so features like the 2 driver memory are very important to us. Power seems good, turning circle is incredibly tight, she gets a power passenger seat, I get lots of toys (DIC, etc)

Looked at a Highlander and it is missing those features and tow capacity for the same price.

I agree that the bigger tires on the Bravada should also be available on the Envoy as well as a roof rack delete option and an AWD system like the C3 and Denali get.

dindak · March 2001

Sounds like it is all one module that they have to install together. I can't see where it says you have to buy all that on the web site, but I have not been to a dealer so you probably know better than I. I guess the best option is to go with an after market sunroof if you really don't want On Star. Not good.

jarchamb1 · March 2001

Can anyone tell me what REAL perks I get for paying the subscription fee to Onstar that goes beyond my regular PCS phone? I just need to rationalize this because I do really like bells and whistles! Thanks!

9t9wu8 · March 2001

Go to http://www.onstar.com/ for a pretty good description of the basic and deluxe On Star Packages ... kinda cool ... but expensive.

ducky87 · March 2001

figures quoted from dealer for no deduct. warranty on envoy
5/75 1505
5/50 1025
6/60 1280
i was able to negotiate the price down by 50 percent when i told the dealer i'd go to olds if they couldn't at least match the olds warranty. gm product is improving but the dealers are still low life car salesmen.

tonysracing · March 2001

Here it is directly from the Chevy dealer. To get the sunroof, you MUST purchase the communication system:

CF5 Sun Roof, Power $800.00
(Req's Console-DK7, Communication System-UE1 & Mirrors-DF5 on LS)

UE1 Communication System, OnStar - LS $965.00

So i was a little off, it actually adds $965 to the price. I understand adding the console and mirror, that's cosmetic, but I dont get why you need a cellular transmitter and a GPS receiver to have a sunroof? This is only evident on the LS model, which is the only model in my price range.

Mainly what I'm complaining about is the option "packaging". What's next, "sorry no power windows/doors unless you buy the garage door opener and brush guard"? Also, I don't want a non-functioning option in my 1 year old vehicle? What happens if you let the subscription run out and you need help? "Yes Mr. Smith, we'll send the ambulance right away, but first I need to authorize your credit card number please?"

dindak · March 2001

tonysracing : Ya.. I see what you are saying. I don't care for sun roofs so I don't care much, but if you want one I can see that it's not a fair package for you. If they bundled it with other safety options it would make more sense.

netsolstice : I think because On Star is satellite based, you need the power of an external antenna. Like you said, Mercedes does it also. There isn't anything better yet.

jgmilberg · March 2001

Can remove rather easily. It is only stuck to the glass with 2 way 3M tape. A PLASTIC putty knife will peel it off. Then get some goof off or similar adhesive remover to get the leftovers off. Make sure not to get any of the remover on the paint, most of them will strip the wax off, making a dull spot in the finish. My GMC dealer offered to disconnect and remove the OnStar ant. at delivery for no charge if I didn't want it, I didn't ask how much after the fact though. I unlike you was stuck with it because of the option pkg. I choose, not because of the standard equipment on the truck.

Did you notice the Trailblazers radio ant. is very similar to the buick, it is in the rear windows on both sides. It looks like a defogger.

dindak · March 2001

The link is being blocked by my company. Will it work on my 56K modem at home?

dindak · March 2001

I will try it out.

Where did everyone go??

roderacer · March 2001

I checked out the commercial. *Thanks to the job's T1* Does that Maroon LTZ look sharp or what?! I love the color coded grill piece that replaces the chrome one on the other trims...

RR

earlc · March 2001

When I click on this site I get a screen stating "Invalid Metafile" and I can't open it . Any suggestions?

sactoken · March 2001

General Motors has quit putting federal rollover-warning labels on redesigned, midsize sport-utility vehicles, the TB, Bravada and Envoy, hoping that will make them seem safer and sell faster. The move comes after prickly internal debate between those who don't want the new SUVs tainted by rollover warnings and those who see the labels as appropriate consumer information. GM says its 2002-model SUVs are long enough to escape the warning requirement. GM's decision could help its dealers in showroom comparisons against SUVs just launched by Ford Motor and Toyota, which will display the warning labels even though they don't have to. The regulation, enforced by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration says that warning labels aren't required on SUVs with wheelbases longer than 110 inches or SUVs based on car platforms, or chassis. Wheelbase is the length between the center of the front wheel and the center of the back wheel.

Still no TB's or Bravada's here in Sacramento. Very few Envoys.

bkjohnson · March 2001

Just checking in to see how your new Bravadas are doing....any complaints, observations?

blake777 · March 2001

I've had my 2002 Envoy SLT for about 3 weeks now, and have very few complaints. Good power, nice ride, much more solid feeling than the previous models. I do wish, though, I had ordered a sunroof.....does anyone know of any good after-market vendors?

paracanary · March 2001

Another newsgroup reported 12 MPH on the trailblazer. Has anyone been driving these new suvs long enough for a realistic figure.

troyy2k · March 2001

I am considering purchasing an MDX - which is about the same price as the Envoy SLT. What advantages does the Envoy offer over the MDX? The lease is definitely better for the MDX.

dindak · March 2001

If you will be doing any off roading or hauling... Envoy. If you will be driving around town with the kids.. MDX may be a little smoother. As for the lease.. MDX probably has a higher residual on it and possibly a lower lease rate (as it's been out for a while). Envoy will have zero deals at this point.

briandavis · March 2001

There is word that there may be some lease deals starting on Monday for all GM new SUV's. Time will tell.

jack51pine · March 2001

Arvin-Meritor (formerly Meritor automotive) is the OEM for the Tahoe/Yukon sunroofs,
and possibly for the Trailblazer/Envoy/Bravada. Check www.meritorauto.com to see if they
supply aftermarket. ASC supplies aftermarket sunroofs, check www.ascglobal.com.

akajoe · March 2001

I have over 600 miles on my Bravada, and still no issues. Still love it. Once I moved the front horizontal slat on the roof rack to line up with the back of the rear door, wind noise has dissappeared. The pewter color hides dirt very well - I don't get the impulse to wash the car even with the rainy weather we've had. I do get the impulse to dress the tires - the Michelins are very nice when they are shiny. Nothing beats a car with shiny new looking tires.

I drive this wherever I go, and the engine get's freer reving as time goes by. They recommend a 500 mile "take it easy" break-in interval even though they stress that it isn't necessary to break in the engine and drive train. In general, that is marketing speak to be ignored. All mechanical systems benefit from a break-in period and 500 miles is not asking too much. Now that the engine and drive train is broken in, I am enjoying the car much more.

svman · March 2001

Great news, if true. If anyone hears any details Monday, please post as soon as possible. Thanks.

dindak · March 2001

Found 3 Trailblazers on a lot when I was driving through Brampton ON today. Could not stop as I was in a rush, but they are trickling in for those interested.

tom00 · March 2001

I went to look at the Envoy and TrailBlazer Friday. GMC dealer didn't have any Envoys and then went to Chevy to look at a LT. I was disappointed on the seats and even though they were leather they looked like vinyl. Also, it had a hood prop with no lift shocks. These might be ok in a cavilier, but not in a list of $34,000.

Both dealers were steering me to the Denili or Tahoe. Probably because they didn't have the others, but the interior on the Tahoe was much more finished than the Trailblazer. The beancounters at GM need to spend a little more on appointments. The Mountianeer was also better fininshed.

fltrsei2 · April 2001

Wife just ordered an Envoy up here in the White Mountains of NH. We already have a '01 Yukon XL 3/4 8.1l so it was a good complimentary vehicle. She went in wanting a Denali but after driving both, she was impressed by the Envoy and disappointed by the Denali. Excellent power (4.10) and brakes. Package 1HS gives you about everything you can get. Profile automotive charged $500 over invoice just like the XL. They estimate 8-12 weeks. I hope it's better than the '98 and '99s other people have been complaining about. Maybe they are finally "proffesional grade"

svescio · April 2001

According to Heather, my contact over at GM Canada, the 2002 Chevrolet TrailBlazer will be arriving at Dealerships across Canada in mid-April.

Local GM Dealers will receive further information on the Chevrolet TrailBlazer at the earliest possible date. Heather also said we should stay in contact with our local Dealers to hear the news first.

We Canadians can finally build our own TrailBlazer by going to:

http://www.gmcanada.com/english/vehicles/chevytrucks/trailblazer/trai_overview.html

then click on Build your own TrailBlazer.

The website lets you virtually do almost everthing. You can select the model/trim, option packages, powertrain, wheels/tires, interior/exterior, sound system, and a bunch of other options. It will total up all your selections and give you a final MSRP.

One word - expensive!

My review and test-drive will follow shortly stay tuned.

dindak · April 2001

Ya.. they are a jump from the current Blazer, but they are also much better. A friend of mine bought a fully loaded Pathfinder for C$40+, so Trailblazer is not out of line with the competition.

svescio · April 2001

No question, it simply does not compare to the old Blazer.

I saw the new 2002 Ford Explorer at Al Paladini's, I did not test-drive it. I was going to the movies so I did not have time.

Ok, Ok, the real reason is, I do not like Ford and this truck is ugly!

No bias of course.

svescio · April 2001

I recently read an article at http://www.nctd.com in which it talks about a problem encountered with the front rotors during an off-road test-drive of a (pre-production TrailBlazer).

A squeak was heard coming from the front rotors. Could be a flaw in the design of the brakes or calipers that allows things to get caught in there. The article did mention that this problem may have been fixed before the actual vehicle went into full production. I only hope so!

Otherwise, the writer had nothing but good things to say.

Have any current owners of the TrailBlazer heard any noise coming from front rotors?

dindak · April 2001

Trailblazers are available at a dealership just east of Brampton downtown across from the new Rona Home Center. The new Explorer's aren't too bad, but I would get a Pathfinder or a Trailblazer before an Explorer any day.

zeen · April 2001

I am paying $300/mo. on my '98 Bravada and have looked at the new Bravada/Envoy and like the vehicles very much. Unfortunately, for leasing, GM has priced these vehicles out of the market. I have gotten quotes in the high $500's with $3,000 down for a 3 year lease. To spend that much, I can get a Lexus or Acura or Infiniti. While those vehicles may not be better than the GM's, there is a certain prestige factor. I have even seen the Mercedes for under $600/mo. I think when people compare the pricing with the foreign SUV's and the new Explorer, they are going to have a tough time figuring out why they should lease one of these new GM SUV's.

fsmasek · April 2001

I have read many posts regarding the GM vs other company lease rates, and I wonder why so many people want to lease a new vehicle? It is far better to simply pay cash, especially if you plan to keep if for 6-10 years and/or you drive a significantly higher than average number of miles per year. The Trailblazer / Bravada / Envoy should go 150,000 miles without any significant repairs beyond normal maintenance, and that includes replacing or rebuilding brakes, replacing worn suspension bushings, and oil changes every 3,000 - 4,000 miles, plus regular transmission fluid changes, and periodic differential lube changes. The 4L60E transmission has been upgraded, as it was a leak link in earlier vehicles. Parking indoors and regular cleaning and waxing are extremely important in keeping a car in good condition.

tlc125 · April 2001

Maybe we just like that new car smell every three years.

zeen · April 2001

There may be good reasons to lease and a significant percentage of consumers lease their cars. Sometimes it works better for tax and business reasons. Some do like the new car smell every 3 years. With gas prices expected to climb significantly over the next few years, buying an SUV for the long term may not be the best decision for some and with the high depreciation rate for American cars, it certainly doesn't pay to buy if you don't plan to keep the vehicle for at least 6 years.

dindak · April 2001

No lease deals on these new models yet. It will be a couple of months before you see anything. Pretty much any other vehicle on the market right now has an incentive. Once GM has some inventory you will see some movement in the lease rate.

bkjohnson · April 2001

My husband's father works at a dealership and he was told that the last Bravada rolled off the line last week. He was under the impression that that means they're making none after that. However, I'm inclined to believe he was misinformed.

Anyone know this to be true?

b4z · April 2001

Dealerships are the worst places to get info. They are so focused on selling what they have that they don't give out info to their salespeople, lest they lose an immediate sale to someone who wants to wait for the next newest thing.

earlc · April 2001

True, true true. Never believe anything told to you by a dealership especially by a salesman or a sales manager. They are trained to lie and decieve the consumer. The only group worse than dealership personnel for lying and deceiving is lawyers. In the past month I have been to 8 GM dealers looking at and discussing the new GMC Envoy for possible purchase. I had already armed myself with all info available at Edmunds, Kelly Blue Book, etc. on these vehicles and found I knew considerably more than anyone at any dealership.
I could write a book on the lies they told me. Its not just GM. Its all automobile dealerships. There should be a better way to purchase an auto than to have to go thru the song and dance bs with dealerships.

briandavis · April 2001

I will have to disagree on your leasing perspective. I think GM will offer some type of leasing deal on thier new SUV's very soon, may be this week. Ford has all ready offered reasonable leasing rats for their new SUV's. To stay competitive, GM must offer something. The current standard rate of 9.9 is out of the question considering competition and the economy. Vehicle inventory has nothing to do with leasing rates. In addition, our economy is slowing. Besides, some dealers in my area have a very large inventory of new SUV's. Some have more than fifty - sixty new SUV's on their lots, including Oldsmobile, Chevy, and GMC. However, time will tell.

alease · April 2001

Have seen a Envoy but still waiting to see a trailblazer in person, why such a difference in price? The different dealerships I have contacted through the internet all say they won't be able to work with me on the price that the MSRP is what I will have to pay because there is such a high demand for these suv's. Is this just salesman bs or what?

earlc · April 2001

Absolutely that is just plain salesman bs about the high demand for these vehicles and selling at MSRP. Don't fall for old lying car salesman trick. The fact is that very few of these vehicles are being sold and dealers lots are backing up with them. I know for a fact that prices in my area are being offered for as little as $200. over dealer invoice price. Start out by offering $100. over invoice and be prepared to walk away. They will phone you in a day or so begging you to come back and will drop down to a decent price. There is a special place in hell for all car salesmen and especially the sales managers.
I had two dealers try to pull the "we are selling them at MSRP price". I laughed at them and walked away. Both have phoned me repeatedly with a better offer each time. I would never deal with either one of these scumbags and told them so.

bkjohnson · April 2001

The lowest one salesman said he would go on a fully loaded Bravada (except sunroof) was $33,500. I thought that was pretty good.

pwash19 · April 2001

Two of the dealers, one GM and the other a Ford here in Southern Maryland have not moved any of their 2002 SUVs yet. They have had them for two weeks already. I am not in the market for a new SUV and have not asked about what they would actually sell for. I wonder if they are allowed to sell these trucks yet?

dindak · April 2001

Don't pay MSRP. You can deal. Other's are and if your local isn't willing, buy elsewhere.

earlc · April 2001

I would never pay MSRP on any vehicle. I always get the dealer invoice price and then negotiate up from that. NEVER negotiate from the MSRP downward. When you do you are playing their game. Always remember also, that even at dealer invoice price the dealer is still making 3% of the MSRP as profit which is a rebate from the mfr. called the "holdback".

earlc · April 2001

Is the $33500. quoted price fro a 2 wheel drive or all wheel drive. What is the dealer invoice price for this unit and what is the MSRP including base price, destination charges and options? You may have a good price but be sure to look at dealer invoice price to see how much profit he is making at $33500.

dindak · April 2001

Found two Envoys at Kerr Pontiac GMC in Oakville ON. One white SLE and one sand SLT. List on them was $42K and 45K CDN respectively. Very nice! The sales man said they would deal but there were no incentives yet. He said they just came in yesterday.

Buick Rainier, Chevy TrailBlazer, GMC Envoy

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