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Buick Rainier, Chevy TrailBlazer, GMC Envoy

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Comments

  • jpnmassjpnmass Member Posts: 45
    You wrote:
    Why would I ever buy one of the new GM mid-size SUV vehicles when the 2002 Ford Explorer is available

    Maybe because you enjoy being alive. Last time I looked, Ford was trying to cover up the fact that they put defective tires on their Explorer's (or maybe the whole design of the truck is at fault)and they were flipping over like pancakes. Why would you even consider an Explorer after that? Not saying to buy a GM product, but the Ford sounds a bit risky for me.
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Americans are sheep. Anyone who buys an Explorer after Ford put in about 6-10lbs less PSI than Firestone told them to put in is crazy. But Ford has some either really good marketing or huge dealer network or something, cause people keep coming back for more torture! It's amazing. What would Ford have to do to get people to stop buying their cars and trucks? Short of having the thing explode upon turing the key in the ignition I think they can put out any crappola and Americans will buy it right up!

    -mike
  • vindog45vindog45 Member Posts: 35
    I also read this sites reviews......what a bunch of biased crap!...."ROLLOVER PROTECTION SYSTEM"....yeah right!...My money still says the Explorer with roll over before a Trailblazer would. ...ROLL OVER PROTECTION SYSTEM....Duhhhhhhh!
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Comparison Test: 2002 Midsize SUVs

    Steve
    Host
    SUVs, Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards
  • cmack4cmack4 Member Posts: 302
    I talked to the Master Mechanic at my Chevy/Old's dealer yesterday and he actually got me part numbers for the transfer cases and gave me some interesting infos...


    Both Autotrac and Smarttrak were originally designed and produced by New Venture Gear, but are now being produced by Borg Warner, since DC pulled the majority share of NVG and took it over... GM maintained the Muncie, Indiana plant where Borg Warner is making the transfer cases now. Both companies are producing under the same part numbers, NV 136 for the Olds and NV 246 for Autotrac. Both use electrically engaged wet pack clutch systems with multiple plates. The multiple plates allow both cases to manage torque split, something I didn't think that Autotrac could do. However, the 136 has more plates then the 246, thus giving it a bigger range of torque distribution and in his opinion better suited for on-road applications. the 246, on the other hand, has a lo-range (which produces up to 700 lbs more ft torque) and has a higher hardness rating, which make it more suited for off-road. I was able to find one site to support most of this info...

    http://www.4x4now.com/bd0599.htm


    So, I guess it looks like tlauro and I were both right and wrong in some regards. I definitely give Autotrac more credit now.

  • cmack4cmack4 Member Posts: 302
    Here's the New Venture Gear Site as well... They have some of the Specs on the cases...


    http://www.newventuregear.com/tcases.html

  • funitsfunits Member Posts: 55
    Lest anyone is confused . . . I own a 2002 GMC Envoy . . . my comments on the mid-size SUV review on this site were my attempts at subtle sarcasim and alluding to that individual's (or an entire organization's) opinions/reviews may be biased by their product allegiance, for whatever reason.
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    I got that read on your comments, not sure why others didn't.

    -mike
  • macman246macman246 Member Posts: 118
    Has anyone found a speed rating for our tires in any of the triplet's documentation?

    I had a '93 Exploder with 93K miles prior to purchasing my '02 Envoy SLT. One thing I do remember very clearly from the owners manual and the Firestone owners manual was that those tires were NOT to be driven over 65 mph. Granted, that's hard to do on the open highway, and I admit I took it up to 75 mph a few times. I wonder how many of those accidents could have been avoided if they had stayed below 65 mph.
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Hmmm I don't buy that one. Most manufacturers will put a speed limiter @ the max tire speed rating. You don't need to look in an owners manual all you need to do is look at the tire. Tirerack.com has the codes to tell you what the tires are rated at speedwise. I think Z or V is the highest which is 155+mph sustained. Most trucks come with 115mph speed limiters and tires rated at about 120mph sustained speeds.

    I've had my trooper up to 115mph a few times and generally travel at speeds of 80-90mph on trips. I've switched over to great tires Pirelli Scorpion ATs in 275-70-16 size. :)

    -mike
  • kimodokimodo Member Posts: 44
    Boy, after reading that comparison test makes me feel like I have such an inferior suv in my backyard. Well, considering that this is the first american car/suv I've bought, gotta say I like it so far. Edmunds messed up on the mpg for the trailblazer by the way, it's not 12/16. Anyhow, for those of you who like their trailblazers and got the LS with out keyless entry, is there somewhere to buy the keyfob and configure it yourself without getting ripped by the dealers?
  • cmack4cmack4 Member Posts: 302
    Isn't it funny how a vehicle can have the best 0-60 time, but feels a little sluggish in stop and go? =) Come on now, they ranked it third in engine performance. All I can say is that I've driven all of those vehicles, except the montero, and the TB engine owns every single one of them in every aspect! Stopping was 6ft behind the leader (Exploder), which is marginal to say the least. I'd also like to drive that slalom course. The say the triplets suffer undue body lean, but I would challenge that in a heartbeat. You just feel it more due to the poor side bolstering on the seats (a little better in bravada than tb, but still not ideal). Funny reading for sure...
  • gam2gam2 Member Posts: 316
    Motor Trend gave the Envoy "Truck of the Year" honors. Car and Driver ranked a TB ahead of the Explorer in their own test (won by a Hilander). To each their own I guess. It definately should be ranked ahead of the Dodge though. EDMUNDS: the mileage rating for the TB is 15/21 not 12/16. Please correct this oversight.

    GAM2
  • tlaurotlauro Member Posts: 504
    I sure don't feel it's inferior. Personally, I think the reviews are a bit off, but then I'm considered biased as a TB owner.

    Interesting comments though. One, I agree that even the Envoy and Bravada have nicer interiors, but then if they wanted to take the top of the line trim Explorer against GM, put it against the Envoy or pit the Bravada and Mercury against one another. The TB however, isn't cheap inside. Heck, at least we have padded doors and don't try to put fake grey wood inside.

    I also don't see too many stoplight races in SUV's and I'm an avid track go-er and racer too. Nonetheless, I've run 5.9l Dodge's and V8 Explorer on the road. They get the jump until about 40mph then loose the lead very quickly. Had a V8 Explorer run me until I backed off at about 75mph getting on the freeway and waved as he proceeded to do a flyby from a good ways back ;) I'll give up the stoplight race for much better passing power any day. Afterall, I'm more likely to need power merging than trying to squeeze someone out of a lane that narrows. If you own a V8...don't try & catch me in traffic because you won't. For those that want real V8 oomph...go drive the 265hp V8 Jeep. That's Best in Class power.

    I also don't see too many SUV'ers running the slalom on backroads either. Sure, the Triplets have a softer suspension, but I drove both the LTZ TB and the Limited Explorer each for one day before I made my decision and the Explorer was noticable stiffer in everyday traffic. IMO, if you're running any SUV close to the edge in the twisties, you're an idiot. Especially if you are a Ford Owner, as You'll probably be on your side.

    Styling...I like the one comment about the TB trying to look "cool"...but the Ford doesn't have to try and look boring. It passes the bland test like a plain rice cake.

    I also, have no idea why they commented on the gaps in the dash. IMO, things are very tight. Unless they are commenting on that the TB has more seems as that it does, but again, IMO, it's got style where the Ford inside is pretty plain.

    The closterphobic comment...way off. They are equal by 1/2" in all but rear hip room where the Chevy wins by 4". My guess is they felt that way due to the "Cool" center shifter in the TB

    The traction thing was also interesting. Several trade magazines tested the Snow capabilities of both and I clearly remember the Explorer getting stuck in them...stuck...no able to move...the TB...no problem. Tires have a lot to play in that according to Motor Trend. They also keep you from rolling over. I've had my TB on ice and snow and the only time the rear kicked out excessively with A4WD on was on ice and my playing with a heavy foot.

    The crash test comparison was very funny. Just jump over the institutes site and you'll see that we faired a hell of a lot better than Ford and if you hit something going 5mph...they fail terribly.

    Overall, their steering was too heavy, ours too soft, their torque higher, our SUV faster, our suspension too soft, theirs rides rougher. Clear statements that the testers are biased for an SUV that handles like a car vs an SUV.

    Nothing wrong with that but if that's what you want, then you should buy a minivan. However, I guess some people want a harsher riding SUV that has heavy steering and that when merging on the highway runs out of steam. Hmmm not me. I like the Caddy like ride, the rain sense wipers, Bose that kicks their butt, styling...which the Explorer doesn't have, steering that allows for easy parking and power that kicks but when needed...in traffic. The I-6 is also way smoother and quieter than the antiquated V8 Ford Uses.

    Lastly, it's interesting that the Ford keeps the AC compressor on even in low temps. Also the location of the seat controls and heating elements is a bit odd. But that's Ford.

    Nope....I wasn't ripped off. I'll save my $2,200, get more and if I want to pic about style and finish...get the Envoy.

    tim
    off his soap box
    2002 Trailblazer LTZ @ 15.675
    2000 Alero "GT" @ 15.591
    1999 GTP @ 13.689
  • jeppingjepping Member Posts: 30
    Any updates regarding the tailgate paint issue? I haven’t seen any new posts regarding this. hopefully you guys out there aren’t forgetting about it. I emailed GM customer service regarding the problem but did not get a straight answer and basically they are not acknowledging the problem. The local dealer offered to paint the chipped area but only after I showed them the problem on every Envoy in their lot. However that’s not going to be a permanent fix.
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    I'd bet the Exploder would do better than the Durangort and the TB due to the fact that it has independent rear end, this will and should give it a big advantage in the slalom. But are we buying sports cars here or are we buying trucks? If I wanted a sports car I'd buy a freekin Viper, Vette or Mustang! (actually I'd get a WRX)

    Amazing how reviews shaft vehicles all the time, guess GM didn't make their "donation" :)

    -mike
  • scottc454scottc454 Member Posts: 356
    How about a ranking of reviewers?
    Here's my list:

    1) Autoweek
    2) Motor Trend
    3) Car and Driver
    4) Consumer Reports
    5) Edmunds

    Obviously, I can't expect a website reviewer to be as talented as someone who writes for a highly acclaimed magazine, but at least I see some consistency in the top 3.

    Ranking a Dodge Durango above the Trailblazer about makes me toss cookies. And the handsome styling of the Explorer? It looks like station wagon with a lift kit.

    Here's what we can gather from this review:

    1) Apparently we want "sensible alternatives to minivans" and we need them to handle well because we also take them to the autocross races.
    2) A third row of seats scores huge.
    3) Ride quality is not a factor.
    4) Engine smoothness is not a factor.
    5) Fuel economy isn't important either.
    6) Feeling fast is more important than actually going fast.
    7) Off the line power is more important than highway passing power.
  • dshepherd3dshepherd3 Member Posts: 194
    In my opinion the long term reliability of all these vehicles is one of the most important issues. No matter how happy or unhappy one is with all those driving/comfort/performance tests/parameters, constant trips to the dealership for uncorrectable anamoly's or serious mechanical problems , is what separates the happy from unhappy owners, this of course was not addressed in these comparos, nor anybody else's.
  • kkakkokkakko Member Posts: 9
    I am waiting for a response from my dealer (Joe MacPherson, CA). The tech advisor told me that he is constantly talking to the body shop manager but he doesn't know how to proceed. Two weeks had passed and I am still waiting.
  • iexplore2000iexplore2000 Member Posts: 237
    I'm sorry to add this one guys/gals... But after reading that review, I was shocked to see that they dared to include the Nissan Pathfinder BUT not the Jeep Grand Cherokee? Boy.. what biased bs to me.

    I'm sorry but when I walk downstairs, I have the liberty of seeing a 2001 Inferno Red JGC V-8 Limited (mom's vehicle) in the garage next to my 02 Envoy SLT. Now, when I open the door, I have the liberty of seeing another 99 v-8 JGC Limited (father's vehicle) next to my Silver 02 Grand Am GT and although the Jeeps have their fair share of troubles, I have YET to find another SUV (outside of the $50K plus vehicles) that could outperform the Jeep in overall acceleration, off road capabilities. Also.. Tlauro is partially right in his statement (post 4739) "For those that want real V8 oomph...go drive the 265hp V8 Jeep. That's Best in Class power," correction... For those that want real V8 oomph, go drive the REGULAR 235 hp V-8 Jeep. That's the best in class POWER period!

    IF you all don't believe me, I dare you to go out and test drive a REGULAR v-8 model JGC. I swear.. I loooovee my Envoy to death, but with the smorgasbord of vehicles we have around our house, driving the Jeep still reminds me of the first time I drove my aunts 1995 Pontiac Trans AM.

    Now If you all want to hear something rather interesting, my dad's 99 is coming off of lease next month and he's been searching high and low for a vehicle to replace his Jeep. We've looked at everything from Avalanche's to Escalades and so far, not so good. I keep trying to convince him to get an Envoy, but he has the liberty of driving mine anytime he wants and everytime he says, "It's a very nice vehicle, you get a LOT for the money.. as a matter of fact.. I think that the vehicles are underpriced for what you are getting and will probably face a hefty price increase next year, but it still cannot touch my Jeep in terms of acceleration and handling." So from the looks of things, I think that we may venture out to Novi, MI tomorrow to pick up this 02 Grand Cherokee Overland with the H.O. V-8 that he's had his eye on for quite some time.

    I say what's stated above to say this. Of course we are all aware that a lot of those tests are very biased, for goodness sake, how could the Envoy win 2002 SUV of the year with MT and then get ranked 4th in the edmunds poll against some fairly "weak' contenders (and even dinosaurs; i.e. Pathfinders, Durango). Another good example, pick up the Consumers Report edition of the 2002 vehicle ratings. It's biased beyond belief! Practically everything made out of the United States received "Best Buy!" or "Recommended!" After reading the reviews about the triplets in the CR guide, it's enough to make you want to set your triplet on fire, but I know that the vehicle suites my needs just fine and I am happy and NOT EVERYONE'S TUSHY IS MADE THE SAME!

    Oh yeah.. before I forget.. did you all see the stereo review for the 02 TB in the edmunds review? I recall the editors making a note that the BOSE stereo in the TB sounded a little nicer than the BOSE in the Envoy that they tested last year? WHAT GIVES! FIRE THE EDITORS IMMEDIATELY... Hmmm.. As far as I know.. same assembly line, same components right? But then again, who knows.. maybe the BOSE fairy decided to slip a new prototype woofer/tweeter into the batch and it just so mysteriously happened to fall into the hands of the review crew? Oh well.. Just my .02 cents!

    Thanks!

    IExplore2000@aol.com
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Get a Trooper. Isuzu ranked #2 behind Toyota in both CR and JDP of long term reliability for '97 to present of mid-large sized SUVs. And off-road it will eat just about any other stock equipped SUV out there.

    -mike
  • vtrip7vtrip7 Member Posts: 6
    HAS ANYONE HAD THE FRONT SEAT SQUEAK AS YOUR WEIGHT SHIFTS BACK AND FORTH? MY DRIVER'S SEAT REALLY SQUEAKS AS YOU ACCELERATE AND BRAKE. IF SO, WHAT WAS THE PROBLEM AND HOW IS IT FIXED?
  • quickdtooquickdtoo Member Posts: 266
    My Tb has the same annoying squeaky seat, I too would like to know if there is a fix...so far, the best "fix" is turn up the radio volume! ..Tim
  • trek1420btrek1420b Member Posts: 32
    I bought my TB 3/31/2001 so I have had it a little over a year now, less the 3 weeks GM had it to fix the control arm bracket. So I would guess mine was built about the time of the bad engine blocks. I only have 7600 miles and no problems so far with the engine. I do tend to baby but I don't know if that makes a difference. Guess I have something else to worry about.

    Has anyone put a lock on the spare tire? I live in the Chicago area and wondered if it might not be a good idea.
  • tlaurotlauro Member Posts: 504
    I was wondering how long you were going to hold out on an Isuzu comment as it related to all the comparisons :)
  • racoonlodgeracoonlodge Member Posts: 34
    Right on the money scottc454. Can't agree with you more. These agencies must test with bulky winter coats on, eyes blind folded and maybe given a little extra moola in their Pocket! Just doesn't make sense to me....
  • 2002slt2002slt Member Posts: 228
    Paisan,
    How did you get a Trooper to go that fast? They seem so boxy. Did you bring any TP? :) I had an Eclipse GSX up to 125MPH once...That seemed pretty fast in an aerodynamic car. It must have been downright scary in a Trooper. But then again, I'm getting old.
  • pauleulpauleul Member Posts: 116
    I got my Envoy last Friday. Took it back today because of the tailgate paint issue. Also have a fine grit over the entire paint job (feels like paint overspray). It had 9 miles on it when I test drove.

    It goes back next thursday for an attempt at tailgate fix and a polish and wax detail job.

    The body shop manager said (and this is obvious) it would do no good to paint over the area. The plastic will simply expand and contract and do the same thing. Every Envoy on their lot has the same damage (except possibly the white ones, they were too dirty to tell). He called GM and they told him the fix was to paint it and put a clear 3m tape over it. He said that won't work because the outgasing of the paint (for about 30 days) will cause the clear tape to bubble. I can't believe GM could suggest such a stupid fix! It needs a properly designed gasket. It is going to cost them a fortune to keep messing around with this problem in such a mickey mouse manner. Guess that's the American way.

    My guy is going to try to come up with a better fix which I believe is a P-type extrusion gasket material. We'll see how it goes.

    I'm suprised more people aren't getting very vocal about this problem. Once the primer is worn through, rust will begin to occur, then they will be replacing the entire tailgate.

    Anyone who has one of the triplets, I suggest you take a look at your tailgate (when it is clean) and see for yourself what is going on. The more of us bringing to GM's attention (and costing them money) the sooner they will address it in a proper way. With summer coming, the problem should get more prevelant with the expansion and contraction in warmer weather.

    That's the price we pay for buying a first year out product. My build date was 2/02 so the factory still hasn't done anything to prevent the problem. I believe an earlier post said they are now coming from the factory with a gasket. According to GM, in talking with the body shop manager, that is not so. They told him no gasket exists.

    Otherwise, it sure has been a nice vehicle so far.
  • dielectric7bbdielectric7bb Member Posts: 324
    Paisan's crazy, you don't want to know what he does in that thing. He's even got a video of it airborne. DO NOT RIDE WITH THIS GUY :-)
  • richardcoulsonrichardcoulson Member Posts: 88
    I saw a 3/02 trailblazer on the lot with a black plastic gasket on the tailgate to prevent the paint chipping. It looked fine on the majestic red.
  • pepper50pepper50 Member Posts: 195
    My friend also has an Envoy, and he took it to his dealer bodyshop to fix a couple door chips. While there, he told them about the tailgate area and they put an adhesive rubber strip (some kind of rubber tape) around it to act as a gasket. I haven't seen it, since he lives in another state.
  • dse1dse1 Member Posts: 22
    In the past, mainly in the mountains in cool weather (30-50F), the fan has locked up for several minutes, even when driving in 2nd and third gear (no noticable change in engine temp from the usual operating temp of 200-210). Complained when I had the vehicle in for other repairs and instead of looking up TSB's which I told them about (also the first thing their service manual tells them to do!!!!) they simply 'compare' it to other vehicles on the lot?- claim no problem. Then the next time I brought it in for replacing front axle/diff seals, they kept the car for a few extra days because the fan locked up and they had to order a new clutch mechanism... fan noise started again a week ago, and today won't go away all day. Others have posted this same problem, but is there a real fix?, actually a problem with trany temp? is there actually a trany cooler (something I read claimed the standard trailering package included this)? Also, most problems people have had have been related to new parts, right? has anyone had trany problems (same trany used in several other models , blazer , tahoe etc for 10-15 years), with 350 miles on our truck, LOST first and second gear (when in drive, worked fine manually putting it in first), dealer topped off the fluid, and same thing occured a week later, then lost first gear manually - turned out to be a defective valve body... anyone else out there have this problem or is this just a 1 in 100000 quality control issue?
  • mytrip2mytrip2 Member Posts: 12
    Last week I saw a truck loaded with triplets,about half of them had the rubber gasket.The vehicles with the gasket looked good to me. Someone at GM shoud know about this,trouble is to find the right area of responsiblity. Seems to me the right hand dosen't know what the left hand is doing.
  • crestonavecrestonave Member Posts: 209
    Had a 99 Bravada coming off lease when I bought the 2002 Bravada, so with all the incentives available to me I would have been hard pressed to
    justify the Envoy. I personally like the looks of the Envoy front end better than the Bravada, but if I recall correctly, to option an Envoy out the way my Bravada was built would have been a lot more expensive.

    I bought the '02 Bravada from King O'Rourke Cadillac/Olds in Smithtown, on LI, in NY. The service guys there have always treated me first class when I went in with the '99.

    Couple of years ago, I took the '99 in to have the driver's heated seat repaired. I picked the car up from sales after the service dept closed and drove home. When I got home I found the power seat controls were not working. I took the car to the train station the next morning, and when I got to work called the service dept to complain.

    Service cut a key, drove to the train station, brought the car back to the dealership, fixed the seat problem and returned the car to the train station for me so I could get home at night.

    I don't anticipate any problems having my '02 worked on by that dealership down the road. In fact, the service I received from them in the past was an important factor in my buying decision.
  • dshepherd3dshepherd3 Member Posts: 194
    Seeing that there does not appear to be an immediate solution to the paint chipping problem, I removed the tailgate trim panel and loosened the nuts holding the molding insert to the gate just enough to possibly allow enough room for expansion. I don't want the gate repainted and recleared, not easy to do properly
  • 2002slt2002slt Member Posts: 228
    Crestonave,
    I also had great service from my Olds/Cadillac dealer with my '98 Bravada. Torco Olds/Cadillac in the Chicago area. I stopped by there inquiring about the '02 Bravada, and they told me were no longer an Olds dealer. I thought it was strange, since their sign stated otherwise. A few weeks later I drove by and their lot was empty. I guess they bailed altogether.
    I hope your dealer sticks it out through the tough times ahead. I really liked the Bravada, but my gut feeling was to go with the Envoy. Even though I could have saved over $1,000 on the Bravada. I figure I'll more than make it up when I trade it in. This is obviously just speculation based on my '98 trade-in, which I covered a few days ago.
  • rcbaker1rcbaker1 Member Posts: 6
    Has anyone else noticed a pronounced whine at around 55mph that seems to come from the transmission or rear-end? The pitch is the same regardless of which gear it is in.

    By the way, I don't see the paint problem on the tailgate of my Envoy. Exactly where is it? The license frame on mine was replaced by the dealer with a light weight black plastic frame (with annoying logo on it).
  • pepper50pepper50 Member Posts: 195
    The paint problem is not around the license plate itself, but further out where that whole plastic background fits onto the tailgate. That plastic insert is about 30"x15" roughly. And the problem is where the edge of that plastic contacts the metal of the tailgate. Its more noticeable on the darker color vehicles. An indigo demo at my dealer had the problem, and I pointed it out to them. They didn't appear to be too interested though. If new vehicles are arriving with a gasket in place, then I believe I'll demand one.
  • pepper50pepper50 Member Posts: 195
    Can you give the details on how you removed the tailgate trim panel and loosened the nuts? Is that something a neophyte like me can do? Thanks.
  • dshepherd3dshepherd3 Member Posts: 194
    You must remove the pull handle, this the tough part, you will need a torx head driver set to get it off, then the rest are clips, so gentle prying, with your hands around the panel will get it off enough to access the 10mm nuts holding the insert, then back them off about 1 turn, mind you now I still don't know if this will work, it's only a theory from an old body man.
  • pauleulpauleul Member Posts: 116
    I went to three Chevy dealers this morning. Every one had at least one Trailblazer with the factory installed gasket. It obvioulsy does exist. I took pictures for proof - if any want copies, let me know your email address.

    I also went to a GMC dealer and looked at an Envoy just off the truck. No gasket but the plastic pocket that we're talking about was not bolted on very tight and no damage had occured (yet). It could be this only happens during assembly when the paint is fresher and possibly softer and the pocket is overtightened. Again, I've heard it takes about 30 days for full paint cure.

    Anyway, I intend to demand the factory gasket and will continue to make as much noise as possible to accomplish my goal.

    It really shouldn't be this hard.
  • jmw4jmw4 Member Posts: 67
    Regarding the fan noise, it sounds like your problem is of an extreme. I know for a fact many of these fans (including the demo the service manager of the dealer is driving)kick on in the morning on a cold start and typically shut down within 3 minutes. I have had mine in twice already for this and each time they tried some recommended GM programming. The dealer service area does not know if there is a real fix for this yet. The design of these fans is apparently new technology, not found in other GM products yet. The two main issues regarding this problem would be 1) a cooling fan kicking on for a cold engine, and 2)a fan that when on, results in the transmission seemingly slipping.
  • dshepherd3dshepherd3 Member Posts: 194
    I could be wrong here but the cooling fan clutch is a viscous type unit with no electronics involved, if so, I don't see any reprogramming of this device available, maybe some of them are just defective, my TB is locked up on cold start for about 30 seconds, same as my old Blazer.
  • envoyenvy1envoyenvy1 Member Posts: 22
    I just got back from a trip to the mountains in my Envoy. About 4 hrs of freeway driving total trip.
    The wind noise is unbelieveable at freeway speeds. Mt wife and my daughter kept checking the windows and all the doors, they were sure something was opened.

    I've taken it to the dealer before, but they said this was "normal" and an effect of the side mirrors and wiper design. I told them I've driven SUV's for the last 9 years and never had this kind of problem with wind noise. I assume GM has wind tunnels to test their designs, so I can't believe they intentionally designed it this way.

    I've asked about his before but never really heard any positive or negative feedback. Can anyone confirm similar problems with their Envoy's or do I have a unique problem?
  • cmack4cmack4 Member Posts: 302
    I'm sure you already adjusted your roof racks... some other things to check:

    Make sure the rubber weatherstrip seals are firmly glued on all of the doors and that they make proper contact with the door/sill.

    Also, check on the inside of the front doors, in the quarter panels. There are rubber gaskets that tend to come loose. I had a slight wind problem from them, but once I took care of it... my Bravada is the quietest vehicle I've ever driven!

    An easy way to check if it's your mirrors, fold them in and take it up to highway speeds and see if it disappears. I have never noticed any noise from my mirrors though (with the indicators).
  • pauleulpauleul Member Posts: 116
    I've only had my Envoy for a week, but I'm not aware of excessive wind noise. My other car is an '01 Acura TL (very quiet) so I should be noticing any significant difference.

    If the stereo isn't on, I do notice some wind noise when I'm up in the 65+ MPH range, but it isn't bad at all. The Envoy is very quite so any noise would be more noticeable.

    I also have seen problems with the door seals, I would suggest you look there. I've had my roof racks in two different positions and haven't been able to detect any difference.

    How fast are you driving when you notice the noise?
  • biggie4852biggie4852 Member Posts: 34
    New TB owner here. Are the dealership the best choice for an oil change. I like Mobile one's quality, but not the $10.00 a quart price. Plus there is my labor, but at least I control who touches my car. Where is the build date on these truck.
  • envoysleenvoysle Member Posts: 20
    Yes, my less than 3 month old Envoy is now scrap. Lucky for me, I'm alive and well with no scratch. I was on the left lane and changed lane to avoid some stupid driver that went halfway in the left lane (from an intersection) to join in the traffic (no traffic lights at this spot) and at 50mph, one wheel got into a small pile of snow and lost control of the truck. Rollovers and a fly in the sky to end up on the top of the truck. The air bag did not pop. I am having mixed feeling about being more secured in a 4x4 now... And I can tell you, the replacement car will be a Pontiac GrandPrix GTP. I have lost faith on those SUV. I'll just say, be carefull....
  • quickdtooquickdtoo Member Posts: 266
    Mobil One oil can be purchased for less than $4 a qt @ Walmart and other discount stores, the changes are relatively easy if you are handy and comfortable with that sort of thing. Oil filters are $4-$6 depending whether you get the PF58 or PF59, both are specified depending on the source. The build date is on the drivers door near the latch. Tim
  • envoyenvy1envoyenvy1 Member Posts: 22
    Thanks for the suggestions, I've already checked the door seals, but haven't looked at the quarter panels.
    Also tried moving the roof racks all the way back but made no difference. Good idea about folding the mirrors, I'll give that a try, but I would think everyone would complaining if it really was the mirrors. Any speed over 55mph and it sounds like a window is rolled down.

    Sounds like no one else is having this problem though so maybe it's specific to my car. Maybe I'll try and have the dealer drive mine then another on the lot to see the difference. thanks everyone
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