Buick Rainier, Chevy TrailBlazer, GMC Envoy

shapiro3 · April 2002

Please do keep us updated about the plastic panel and gasket outcome. I luckily have a great dealer who is always willing to help. I just got my Envoy in Jan and haven't gotten around to dealing with the gasket issue yet (although I made the dealer aware before the purchase and they agreed to help me find a solution). If I can tell them exactly what to order then things will go that much smoother!

PS...My Indigo Blue SLT just hit 3300 miles and so far none of the problems on this board execept the gasket issue!

pepper50 · April 2002

I, too, had noticed the impression from the power plug cover when the rear seat is folded down. I've planned to insert a thin square of firm foam rubber between the seat and the console so that any impression will be on the foam rubber and not on the seat. When the seat is up, I'll keep the foam rubber underneath the rear seat or in one of those little cabinets near the tail.
flopes, you mentioned you planned to insert a rear floormat between the seat and console. If you do, be sure and fold it. The nibs on one side could either leave many more impressions on your seat, or if reversed, could scratch your console. A rolled towel might work as well until you find some foam rubber or something.

flopes · April 2002

Thanks pepper, I hadn't considered the effects of the backside of the mats. A folded towel should work fine.
Frank

vindog45 · April 2002

O.K. Check this out People.....I read envoyenvy1 post about checking all the door gasket seals......well...i also checked, and if you open either side front door, and facing inside hinge area....reach in (squeeze in)and you can touch very very thick rubber gasket that seals front quarter panel from door hinge area....JUST FLOPPING THERE!....glue came loose, and there doing nothing to keep wind noise out.....My Trailblazer has bulid date of 02/02 and so far i haven't had ANY problems....not even with rear gasket (checked very thorough too)..I couldn't believe they are just hanging there!

mcupps · April 2002

I bought my 02 Envoy two weeks ago and I am impressed so far by the vehicle (no wind noise, thank God). My biggest complaint is with the stereo (non-Bose). The bass level indicator seems to reset itself to the maximum bass level when I switch to the next preset FM station, even when the indicator says it's set where I left it. I tested this by setting the bass to my desired level, and listening to the radio for a steady bass rhythm to gauge the bass level. Then I would immediately hit the preset button for the SAME station I was listening to, and most every time the bass level in the speakers increased. Then I went into the bass indicator on the stereo and when I turned the knob down (to the left) the indicator bar went clear to the right (one step below max). I saw an earlier post on this problem, but the discusion died quickly. I'm hoping to fan the flames on this issue before I drive off the road while adjusting the bass EVERY time I change FM stations.

tblazed · April 2002

Try re-saving each station with the bass & treble settings you want. Go to a station, set the bass where you want it, then hold in the appropriate button til you hear the two beeps. It should be saved that way. I know the AM and FM tone steeings will save different because I saved all my AMs with min bass and max treble, and saved all the FMs with the "POP" tone mode. ( I really miss the AM-Stereo in my old Delco radio- even on a mono station, if the radio was set to AM-ST I would get wide-band hi-fi AM with crisp treble. There are more AM-ST stations in D-FW than there are FMs with RDS- my gripe- why not BOTH?? but I digress..) If the bass was cranked up when you 1st saved the station presets then it is probably reverting back to the old saved settings. Anyway, try that.

flyguy7 · April 2002

I am having noise when turning my steering when parked. When it is turned all the way to the stops it makes a rubbing sounding noise. It sound like rubber on rubber. The dealer has replaced all steering parts and the noise is still there. They checked other vehicles on the lot and they have the same problem. GM says that it is the way it is. Anyone else experienced this? I have a TB LS w/10000 miles. This noise has been there since day one. I am curious if it is common to all of the triplets?

paisan · April 2002

Don't most PS units make a similar noise at full lock? I vaguely remember my '74 olds doing that and some other cars. I generally don't turn my wheels lock to lock too often so I'm not sure if my Trooper does it or not.

-mike

richardcoulson · April 2002

It took Chevrolet 10 days to update their web page for the April incentives. Since this is such a simple web change, I can only assume it is an issues of getting the approval down the chain of command to the appropriate person to post the change. I also tried to build a new trailblazer online a few days ago. I got a web page error. I tried today and it still doesn't work. Last week it worked fine. Chevrolet apparently made a change to their online build process that didn't work. I am in the computer application development business. When we roll something out to production and it doesn't work, we have a backup plan to rollback the change so there is little downtime notice by the customer. Chevrolet's computer staff obviously doesn't understand this process or how to provide good service. If I did this to my customers, I would be fired and replaced by someone else. I imagine Chevrolet has to many layers of management and no clear path to define and enforce accountability.

I did pickup my new trailblazer the other day. The build quality does seem high. All the body panels line up well. Interior fit and finish is also good. Hopefully long term reliability will be just as good.

There are a few minor design issues that could have easily been avoided such as the rear seats can't be folded down with the front seats all the way back. This wouldn't be an issue if I weren't 6'2" and need to have the drivers seat all the way back. The steering wheel stereo controls for my premium bose system are limited compared to my Jeep Liberty. AM and FM are the only sources that can be switched from the steering wheel and not the cd player. I have a factory bose cd changer. The steering wheel control can only switch between cd's and not between the songs on each cd. It is little design issues like these that make chevrolet seem inferior to its competition. It is unfortunate since these are no-brainer common sense issues that should have been solved during the design phase. If this technology was leading edge, I would be more understanding. However, they are not leading edge and the other manufacturers are doing it better. Chevrolet engineers must suffer from tunnel vision.

Overall I am happy with my new purchase. However, if some of these little design flaws did not exists, I would be much happier. This is my third blazer. I loved my 89 s-10 blazer, wasn't crazy about my 98 s-10 blazer and I hope my experience with my 02 trailblazer with be the best yet.

malibu99 · April 2002

paisan is correct, that is the noise it makes at full lock. I strongly recommend not to do this too often. Any power steering system will do this to some degree, some louder than others.

rj123456 · April 2002

I'm seriously considering getting one of the longer twins and keep seeing sightings on this message board. If any one has seen these on the lots, could they please post geographic locations?

jepping · April 2002

Congratulations on your new purchase richardcoulson. I also had to get used to limited steering wheel controls after my Grand Cherokee. However, compared to the Jeep the CD track controls are fairly close to the steering wheel and now I dont have to open the trunk every time I need to change a CD. Overall a great sound system with some neat features.

flyguy7 · April 2002

The noise actually happens about 1 to 1/2 a turn before you get to the full lock position. I am aware of the noise when caused by being at the stops, but this is different. The only times it happens is when I am backing out of or into a parking spot. If I am stopped I can make it by turning the steering. GM thinks it may have something to do with the pump design. But for now they can't fix it. The steering vibrates when it does this BTW.
Thanks for your inputs.

beach15 · April 2002

We live in southern Delaware and First State Chevy in Georgetown has a loaded new white Trailblazer EXT sitting out by the road that says "1st EXT!" in the windshield. If we have one in this small state, I'm assuming they should be pretty widespread soon.

Another thing I've noticed is that the first ones people are seeing seem to be more loaded with options. Just an observation.

Good luck!

flyguy7 · April 2002

The noise actually happens about 1 to 1/2 a turn before you get to the full lock position. I am aware of the noise when caused by being at the stops, but this is different. The only times it happens is when I am backing out of or into a parking spot. If I am stopped I can make it by turning the steering. GM thinks it may have something to do with the pump design. But for now they can't fix it. The steering vibrates when it does this BTW.
Thanks for your inputs.

mrau · April 2002

....The extended Tb and Envoys I saw were at the Al Serra dealer in Grand Blanc, Mi. (just s. of Flint) All the Envoys (4 of them) were white and fully loaded. I posted a photo of one a few days ago.

Mike

johntr · April 2002

I live in Lansdale, PA & bought my Trailblazer from Bergey's Chevrolet. They have one LT white on the lot. It looks roomy & defiantly taller than the standard TB. I do like the heavy top rack, but it still looks like a freezer ;-) Would love to see a Black one!!

BTW: I also talked to my service manager about the rear paint scrape issues on the tailgate. Surprisingly he said he has not heard or seen this issue before. He is going to write it up & research on the fix. About half of the TBs on the lot have the new design of the gasket & he is going to check it out as see what can be retrofitted to my TB. I'll post an update when I get one...

mrau · April 2002

.. Thanks for the feedback on the rear seat/cigarette lighter crush. At least I know my console is not mounted to far back. We all should be aware of this to avoid a tear.

Also flopes, you are correct, the larger side of the split rear seat is on the driver side. Not sure what I was thinking.

.. Mike

Hey ! It's 70 degrees in Michigan today. A great day for an Envoy drive.

iexplore2000 · April 2002

Actually, I drove from Michigan to Columbus yesterday and I decided to cruise through the local Chevy dealership lot to find that Capital Chevrolet here in Columbus has several TB LTZ EXT's loaded with sunroof, etc. The salesperson mentioned that the EXT's are only being offered in White and Pewter right now? Has anyone heard the same? Also, several ext's and regular models had the new gasket on the back.

Also, I have to agree with vindog.. I thoroughly checked my rear tailgate and I am not experiencing the paint chipping around the license plate housing either? I know that my SLT Envoy was built in October 2001 and has pretty much been a garaged baby and not subject to the beatings of daily sunlight which according to past post may affect the expansion and contraction of the license plate housing causing it to scratch the paint? On the other hand, from looking at the TB's on the dealership lot, the design of the gasket looks as if it will cover up any scrapes or scratches that some of you may have?

My advise.... take a stroll out to your local triplet dealer and take a "looksy" for yourself.. pretty neat if we can get our hands on one.

Thanks!

IExplore2000@aol.com

allenr · April 2002

I use a square of closed cell foam. You can go to wallmart and pick up a sleeping bag pad made of this foam, it's like 4 or 5 dollars. I use that stuff anywhere I need to pad something. Like between our child's car seat and the leather seat bottom. You should see the dent's in the foam after the car seat been there a few days. Be aware you will still have a small dent even with a 3/8" foam pad. It still bugs me the seat back doesn't fold flat!

Allen

tlauro · April 2002

we missed each other again!

I just got back from my trip to Michigan from Columbus. No doubting Detroit is the king of the Triplets. I saw more of them there than I've seen anywhere else during my travels for work.

I would say the white and pewter production limitation is true as I saw three on the road and all were pewter. All were Envoys too. One in Flint, the other downtown and one in Livonia.

tim

dshepherd3 · April 2002

It is possible that a lot of trucks will not experience this problem because of lower ambient temps in various regions of the country. The difference in expansion rates of the insert vs tailgate is causing the conditon.

beach15 · April 2002

Any idea about this and why:

GMC Envoy
Envoy XL
8-10 Est. final order due date 5/3/02
(G67) Load-leveling suspension production delayed until late-June-02

baredogg · April 2002

I also read the manual re 3rd gear towing however on level ground and towing stated weights with service manager and a techII scanner there was no shifting no miss no nothing except this jerking so the mystery continues gm tech centre involved hoping to hear next week surly a 5500 lb limit is sufficient when only towing 3500 lbs I have towed this same trailer and weight with a Tracker (90hp) with less problems so 270 should be a breeze But seriously were thinking viscous clutch in the awd doing fore aft transfers which should not happen as it does not do it on awd safaris

pauleul · April 2002

I don't think lower ambient temps is the key to the paint chipping. I live in the Portland Oregon area and temps here are pretty moderate compared to most of the US. Not a very big swing and not either extreme (just lots of rain). My Envoy also lives in the garage. Almost every triplet I've seen on the road and still on the lots here have the problem. I believe the problem will not occur if the 10mm nuts holding the plastic pocket on are not over tightened. My guess, any triplet owners who are not having the problem would find the pocket is not bolted on as tight. I saw a just in Envoy late last week with the pocket so loose I could actually move it around by hand (no gasket on it). Someone posted earlier they had loosened the nuts to avoid further (or any?) damage to their truck. Then the question becomes, will the nuts continue to loosen over time. There isn't a lock washer being used.

If anyone wants to try this preventive fix, you will need a 10mm deep socket.

crj1 · April 2002

They are not limited to white and pewter, I work at Dittrich GMC in Waterford MI. and we have White, pewter, burgundy, and black right now.

mdey · April 2002

On warm days, particularly when the sun is behind the car, I hear this wonderful popping sound coming from the rear of the car. I live South Carolina where we have two seasons: sauna and summer.

When I first heard it the sound bothered me. Now I have put it together with the chipped paint on the tailgate. That license plate insert expands when it heats up and pops against the metal surface (and paint) of the tailgate. I can't imagine GM didn't see this problem coming in testing. This is the only problem I have with the truck, so I am otherwise very happy. I plan to wait a while to deal with it. Hopefully by the time I do, the dealer will know what to do.

stever · April 2002

#10 Oldsmobile Bravada

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fletch45 · April 2002

When I was shopping for my TB a year ago, I remember reading somewhere that the sound settings for each preset station would be stored, and the stored settings would return with the station. Re-programming each station, as "tblazed" said, should take care of your problem. This is kind of a neat feature, if you ask me.
jim f

paisan · April 2002

Hey guys question on the air-suspension. Does it replace the standard coils and shocks or is it supplumental?

-mike

isutherland · April 2002

I pull a 5300lb (loaded)travel trailer with my TB with a 3:73 rear end in 3rd gear. Have pulled this rig for many miles including a trip through the mountains of Mt Washington. I used to do this with an Astro. The TB is a superior towing vehicle, plenty of low end torque and it actually accelerated uphill in the mountain passes without effort. Most of the time it's like the trailer is not there. It is important with a load like this to use equalizer bars to distribute the load evenly on the front and rear axles of the vehicle. It's possible you are overloading the rear if you don't have a weight distributing hitch set-up.

Ofcourse, the TB has a 2Hi setting which is why I selected it. Did not want the AWD when towing, I had it with the Astro and prefer to select 4 wheel drive only when I need it. No problems, no shudder. But the manual is clear, tow in 3rd gear to keep the engine revs in the power range.

ducatist4 · April 2002

Just saw a XL in Black. Beautiful. Loaded. $38000+.

12000 miles on the 2002 Bravada, still love it. A little wind noise and the mirror, but great.

lexus998 · April 2002

Personally, I would buy a Toyota Highlander or Toyota 4-Runner folks. I used to own a 1993 Blazer and it was always breaking down. SUV left me hopeless on the side of the road many a times. Besides, these SUV's are too expensive you can get a Highlander for 25K.

ducatist4 · April 2002

My parents have owned a 1993 Landcruiser, 1998 4Runner with supercharger, and now a 2002 Higlander. All very good quality, maybe even slightly better over all than the Olds Brav 2002 I own. But the 4Runner left us stranded several times out of town, due to electrical charging problems. The Landcruiser road like a Jeep Cherokee or liberty, great if you off road. The Highlander, is smaller inside and out. Nice vehicle otherwise. But it does not tow anything but a small trailer, barely. Furhermore, the cost of the loaded up Highlander, with over all fewer gizmos than the triplets, was closer to $35000 than $25000. Just my 2 cents. Finally, the interior of the 4Runner was no where near as nice. Higlander is a nice interior.

biggie4852 · April 2002

One question why did you buy a Buick Regal? As far as cost you can always buy a lower price car, but that is your right as a consumer to spend what ever rocks your boat. Plus just because you had a 93 Blazer does not make your comment that relevant in this discussion on the 2002 TB.

pauleul · April 2002

We looked very hard at the Highlander. A loaded one will be around 2,000 to 3,000 MSRP less than a loaded triplet. However, the loaded triplet will have much more on it. All in all, the price is very comparable. You can't get a darker color leather interior in the Highlander. The carpet looks, feels and I assume is very cheap.

I would agree the overall build qualtity of a Toyota is going to be better than GM, but the gap is getting more and more narrow. Have you heard about the Highlander engine problems? That Toyota denied until just recently?

Every mfg. has lemons. Some more that others.

We ended up getting the Envoy and so far have no regrets, even though we are still fighting the gasket issue.

We feel we got more for our money with the Envoy. So, to each his own, whatever floats your boat (or should I say whatever is capable of pulling your boat).

Enjoy whatever your have, most all new vehicles are fun (as long as you don't get a lemon).

allenr · April 2002

What's wrong with a Buick Regal

I have a 1999 GS, I have so much fun driving that supercharged GS around I just can't stop smiling. Especially when I pull away from small-imported cars at stoplights. You now the kind of car I mean, the ones with the big coffee can tail pipes. Most kids can't comprehend how an old man (45) in a Buick is showing them its taillights all the time. The best thing is it's almost invisible to the local law enforcement types. After all how many Buick?s are even going the speed limit

Allen

paisan · April 2002

Well first things first there is no Toyota that is in the same size class as the Triplets so for arguements sake the 4-runner is gonna be smaller, the TLC bigger and the Highlander is just a lifted up Camry. So it's hard to comapare apple to apples on that. Even if the size isn't an issue, Toyata build quality and relatd price far exceeds the General any day of the week, and I'm not a fan of either company but statistics show that Toyota has way way better build and reliability (sans the latest sludge problems) overall than the General. The TLC is also like $55K which is just insanely priced IMHO.

-mike

vindog45 · April 2002

Please read my post # 4879.....i know this is a problem with most triplets.....check it out!

2002slt · April 2002

I checked mine a few weeks ago, after someone else mentioned it. Mine are secure.

Build date 1/02.

cmack4 · April 2002

Mike, the air ride suspension uses air bladders that replace the coil springs, but it doesn't sacrifice the rear Bilstein shocks. The ride quality is VERY nice on-road, but the coils are still going to be better off-road.

paisan · April 2002

Be very very careful of those bladders. I have several subaru XT6s and know a few owners of Lincolns and Caddys who all have "air bladders" in the rear or all 4 corners. Over time they will break down due to the nature of rubber/plastic not being very weather/salt/sun resistant. Plan on spending about $700-$1000 to have it replaced in about 5-7 years. It was not a fun process re-doing my XT6 suspension. I'd be curious if one could retrofit the coils into the spot where the bladders are down the road when the time comes to replace the costly bladders.

The ride I'm sure is excellent as the Caddy/Lincoln/Subaru system was great when it worked

On a side note the audi-all-road has 4 airbags and audi when questioned said that most are on leases and would be sold as certified vehicles after the lease and the certified vehicles would carry a warranty. They appeared to know that they would fail eventually which I was pretty suprised about.

-mike

cmack4 · April 2002

I agree with paisan about the comparison... there really isn't a common class between Toyota and GM. I gave the highlander a brief look, but it really didn't appeal to me at all. Personally, I would buy another mini before I bought the highlander... not the sienna though, check out all the problems on the sienna forum! the closest comparison would probably be the Sequoia, which is still a bigger vehicle. The thing that really bugs me about Toyota is that nothing comes standard... They draw you in with low prices, and nickel and dime you for options!

longd · April 2002

Question from yesterday about seeing only white TB's. I submitted an order to my local chevy dealer in early Feb for a loaded red TB EXT. Production did not start on any EXT until March. Production plant only assembled white to ramp up production. So, that is why you have only seen EXT's on lots in white. I was hoping to have mine for the family's trip to Florida for spring vacation. Had to settle transporting 4 adults, 1 child in a 99 CRV. Really would have liked the onboard baby sitter(entertainment system with dvd) to entertain my son. Plenty of room for the crew, however luggage space was very tight. Production to start on my vehicle on 5/6. Expect delivery before Memorial Day weekend.

paisan · April 2002

re: Buick Regal

Just about any car will be able to blow the doors of the Wannabe-Racers at a light for several reasons:
1) Wannabe-Racers generally are into looks and sounds rather than actual performance
2) Those cars are high reving top-end cars, not 1/4 mile or off the line torque monsters like a big displacement or SC car
3) Try to keep up in the twisties even with some of the worst Wannabe-Raced out cars and your buick will be kissing a pole

-mike

medolark · April 2002

Paisan-

I think your numbers for air bladder replacement are way off. I have an 86 Lincoln LSC with air bladder on all four corners. I have owned it since new so I know the bladders have not been changed by others. It is the best riding vehicle I have ever owned.

About six months ago I started getting a slow leak in one of the front bladders. I replaced both at about $150 a copy for parts (including solenoids). Further, the only tool needed to do the work was one large flat blade screwdriver and of course the jack. It takes about 20 minutes per side to change the bladder.

With that experience, I got the bladders on my Envoy.

paisan · April 2002

Well it costs $300/corner for the air bladers on the XT6, and My family, being paisanos

have owned a few Towncars in our day and they were about $1000/axle to have the system re-done. Good to hear that they were only $150 each for the LSC. I've heard the same horror story from many LSC owners so I guess you lucked out.

-mike

cmack4 · April 2002

I did some checking around the web... nobody has prices or part numbers yet for the triplets, but going rate for the expeditions/navigators with the air ride suspension is about $150 a wheel. Not too bad! I see the new Hummer H2 is going to be using the same air ride suspension as well... interesting!

medolark · April 2002

I guess I'm not surprised that Suburu parts cost more and they are harder to work on than American stuff. That's one of the tradeoffs between US vs Japanese stuff. But the towncar I don't understand.

Anyway, the rear bags on the triplets shouldn't be a big deal. I looked at them a little the other day when I had my Envoy jacked up putting mudflaps on.

paisan · April 2002

Hey this is great news. Glad they have come way down in price. The problem I think with my subaru may have been related to only 4K cars ever built with that suspension over 3 model years. Wound up replacing em with std. coil-shocks and springs for about $600 total for all 4 corners.

-mike

Buick Rainier, Chevy TrailBlazer, GMC Envoy

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