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Buick Rainier, Chevy TrailBlazer, GMC Envoy

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Comments

  • jcat707jcat707 Member Posts: 169
    We just had out first major snowfall here in Michigan so I finally got a chance to try out my four-wheel-drive. It was excellent. This morning I drove my Nissan Altima 3.5SE to work and every time I pulled off from a stoplight, the tires would spin no matter how light the accelerator pedal pressure was. Also, alot of the times I stopped, I felt the ABS kicking in and the car started sliding. So at lunch I went home and got my Trailblazer. All of the starts and stops were smooth. There was no wheel spinning and no brake pedal vibrating. It looks like the Altima will be parked in the garage all winter.
  • darthkimdarthkim Member Posts: 7
    Amazing!. I thought i was the only one who had that issue with the bumper. The guys at the shop couldn't figure out why there was a bump there. I don't mind it as much, but knowing that i paid for a 30k suv and to have that be there really bugged. I am planning to go back again this week for them to have another look..

    BTW, does anyone have an issue with the shade in the trunk area (the horizontal visor over the trunk space)? Mine keeps rattling when i hit bumps and stuff..
  • bryancosbryancos Member Posts: 282
    Hardhawk, curious as to how you like the bulbs if you were able to get them over the weekend.

    Tim, I don't know what the deal was, but for whatever reason the PIAAs I had would not fit down into the lamp assembly. (couldn't just insert and twist) I had to remove the screws holding the retainer, remove it, insert the bulbs and place the retainer back over the bulb base... maybe it's the diff. between the envoy lamp housing and the TB lamp housing???
  • lurker01lurker01 Member Posts: 103
    Tried out the rear washer today and it did not work anymore. No response at all. When I tried to use the rear wiper, it worked fine.
    the front has fluid and I think they use the same resovoir so why whould the rear not run? It should at least try to wipe and pump even if empty! Going in on Friday for oil change and several TSBs so I'll have to add this to the list.

    Also noticed today a gap on the door where the plastic around the handle and the surrounding trim are separated to the point were you can see some black foam padding in the gap. The widest part is about 1/4". Checked the passenger side and it is the same. Normal fit n finish or something wrong?

    I have had the truck for over a year now. Reached 20k miles. Mileage is ~17 winter, ~18 summer with mixed hwy/city/backroads/hills. About the same my old Jimmy got.
    Still like the truck and happy with the purchase. Only had the usual nits and most have been fixed w/o too much trouble...
  • mfullmermfullmer Member Posts: 773
    I know what they have all said about the Expedition being a gas hog and the engine not being powerful enough. Fortunately, I searched a little deeper into what they were testing and what I am going to get.

    1. - They tested, in every test I could find, a 4x4 model with the 5.4 engine. I am only considering a 4x2 model with the 5.4 engine. These vehicles have a weight difference of more than 200 lbs!!!

    2. - I've test drove both vehicles (in the configuration I want) and I see little to know difference in "power". In fact, with the transmission lag that was apparent in both the Tahoes and the Yukons I've driven, I would say the Expedition almost felt quicker.

    3. - The fold down seat thing (along with the heated and COOLED seats, more hip room, better quality record, etc.) is VERY IMPORTANT TO ME and is the deciding factor. It's convenient and thats what these vehicles are all about.

    4. - I'm buying a large SUV, I couldn't care less if the fuel economy is a few under one vehicle to the next.

    To top it off, If I can find a person to take over my lease (which I think I have) and then as soon as my STS lease is up I will be PERMANTENTLY severing my 15+ year relationship with GM. After the last few weeks of their e-mails essentially stating that "since I'm in a lease my satisfaction with the vehicle is of little concern to them" (paraphrased, of course) I will not even consider the Tahoe now, especially with the advantages of the Expedition.

    I've, all my life since having a family in the GM car dealership business, been GM loyal but not anymore.
  • johntrjohntr Member Posts: 71
    My rear washer did the same as yours. It seemed about a year for mine as well.

    I took it in & it required a PCM (or BCM) unit replacement. It's a major component because all the driver preferences and key fobs needed reprogramming. It took 1 day to fix (as long as dealer has part).

    John
  • ross1962ross1962 Member Posts: 229
    And this has what to with the quadruplets? (I'm including the Ascender).
    By the way, you may want to check with your local AAMCO and ask them what SUV's they see in their shop the most (Ford).
  • ficussficuss Member Posts: 541
    mfullmer: remember one thing, subleasing a car is the same as subleasing an apartment to someone else. You are still responsible for the original terms of the lease. When the car is returned with damage, you will have to pay. If the car is damaged beyond the amount of insurance coverage, you will pay the difference.

     Why not sell it outright to someone, and pay off the balance of the lease.

     As far as Ford having higher quality standards than GM or anyone else, it all depends on the particular car you get. I've had Ford E 150 vans since 1976 (3 of them). They have all had their share of problems.


    Frank

  • nuyorkahnuyorkah Member Posts: 100
    >Tried out the rear washer today and it did not work anymore. No response at all. When I tried to use the >rear wiper, it worked fine.

    Make sure the nozzle didn't move(slide) on the arm and kink the hose.
  • hardhawkhardhawk Member Posts: 702
    bryancos: I have not gotten them yet as I live in a pretty rural area. May get some on my next visit to the city next week.
  • dssnuffydssnuffy Member Posts: 39
    Johntr - That's the first I've heard of a PCM needing replacement to make the rear washer fluid work. Did everything else work fine (rear wiper, front washer, other electrical)?

    Lurker - There is only one washer fluid reservoir so if your front washers work so should the rear. The problem is probably in the yards of washer hose to the back window. You can try to look at something simple by looking at the hose on the wiper arm itself. It should be fully extended and not kinked. If it is OK bring your truck into your dealer to check the rest of the hose. The two easiest places for him/her to access the hose is behind the quarter glass molding on the driver's side of the liftgate opening and under the carpet in the passenger's rear door area. The fastest way to diagnose is to cut the hose at those junctions to see if fluid flows from the pump. Make sure they have a good splice to fix the hose from diagnosing and if a kink is found and cut out. - Snuffy '92
  • baitisjbaitisj Member Posts: 24
    Gam2:

    I've noticed a very high-frequency buzz that seems to be emanating from my OnStar- and compass-enabled rear view mirror. I'd like to know where this 'overhead speaker' is, as I've been through most of the electrical schematics of my Envoy and didn't notice any OnStar-specific speakers.

    I'm going to guess that our buzzing sound is caused by a noisy coil winding in the step-up circuit that provides sufficient voltage to illuminate the vacuum fluorescent display of the electronic compass. I've noticed that the refresh of the VFD seems to correspond with this sound (listen carefully and shake your head back and forth quickly while watching the compass. You'll see that the display actually flickers.)

    I'm 23 and my high-frequency hearing is still very good; older friends and relatives cannot hear the buzz or say that it's hardly noticeable. So I drown it out by turning up my stereo system.

    Anyway, maybe other people can corroborate my findings...

    Best,
    Jeff
  • johnhenry3johnhenry3 Member Posts: 9
    I have recently had a couple problems with my 02 4WD TB (13,00 miles) and wondered if anybody could shed some light on them.

    At speeds above 10-20 MPH I get an intermittent high pitched noise that seems to come from the underhood of the vehicle on the right side. The noise comes and goes and does not seem to increase or decrease in volume or frequency with engine or vehicle speed. I thought maybe it was a noisey built, but tried some belt dressing and that didn't help.

    With the cold weather in Michigan I noticed the fan clutch noise at start-up. This morning I noticed my headlamps and interior lights got brighter about 10-15 seconds after start-up. Strange. Also, I got my driver side window down this morning and it took a couple minutes to get it to go back up. No whining noise from the window....it'd be quiet...go up a bit...stop for a while...then a bit more until it got all the way up. Once I got in to work it was fine.

    Could all of these problems be related to a bad generator or a slipping belt? Your help/comments before I take this in to the dealership are apprecited.

    Thanks

    John
  • mfullmermfullmer Member Posts: 773
    It has to do with the Triplets because I'm getting rid of my P.O.S. Bravada and moving on. I was asked about why I was getting an Expedition over a Tahoe/Yukon.

    I only lease so I don't really care how many old Expeditions, Tahoes or whatever they are seeing in the shop. The real tale is these boards and they speak wonders.

    I am NOT sub-leasing. I will be transferring my lease through GMAC. This is not like sub-leasing an apartment and sub-leasing is not even an option with GMAC as it violates the terms of the contract. Once the deal is done I am no longer, in any way, connected to the vehicle or the lease. The transferee has to go through the same process as if he were leasing the vehicle and the lease is transferred to his name and he makes the payments to GMAC. We do have to pay a transfer fee, however.

    It's amazing how little people know about leasing and how much they talk about them.
  • lurker01lurker01 Member Posts: 103
    Thanks for the tips. I'll go check it out.
    I am not sure a blocked hose is to blame, however, because the wiper does not even do a dry wipe when the button is pressed. Nothing happens at all. The fronts work fine and the rear wiper will run when turned on the normal way. Just the washer mode that does not work.

    It's going into the dealer Friday for several issues anyways...
  • lurker01lurker01 Member Posts: 103
    Does anyone know the TSB numbers for the following items:

    Backwards roof rack cross rails

    Rear Aux power port leaves indent in seat when folded.

    Front end binding at slow speeds when making sharp turns.

    thanks.
  • blrmkrblrmkr Member Posts: 40
    I've had some cold weather start-up problems too (03/01 TBLT 4WD). 1. The past 2 mornings (in Detroit), I've had a high pitched noise right after ignition that lasts for about 5 seconds and then goes away. I never heard a similar noise last winter, although it's been -1 deg. F (-18 deg. C) in the morning. I'm not going to worry about it. I'm at 38k miles and still counting. 2. My headlights get brighter a little after ignition too. I think that is due to the alternator performance and the change in battery voltage at cold temperature. 3. I'd avoid messing around with electric windows in cold weather. A window stuck in the down position could make for a rather cold drive!
  • ficussficuss Member Posts: 541
    Mfullmer: You said something like "if I can find someone to take over my lease ". That didn't sound like you were going through GM for a re-lease of your vehicle. It sounds like you have all the answers. Good luck on your Expedition.


    Frank

  • gator36gator36 Member Posts: 294
    Here they are...

    Backwards roof rack cross rails 02-08-67-005

    Rear Aux power port leaves indent in seat when folded. 02-08-49-009

    Front end binding at slow speeds when making sharp turns. 02-04-21-008
  • mfullmermfullmer Member Posts: 773
    Ficuss, I certainly don't have all the answers I've just become very informed about leasing. Actually, I did mean that someone will "take over" my lease. The process does not involve "re-leasing" the vehicle as there will be no new lease. The lease that I agreed to will still be in effect only instead of my name and obligation, it will transfer to the new lessee.

    It's actually a very good way to get out of a lease early without the penalties and for someone who may want a short-term lease but does not want the high payments and the normal capital cost reduction.

    Case in point - I have a 36 month lease, where I put $2,500 down as a cap cost reduction (mostly GM card points) and pay $546 / mo.

    For only $595 (GMAC transfer fee) the new lessee will have a 17 month lease, with no money down (except the transfer fee) and pay $546 / mo. Not bad as I am below my mileage and the car is in excellent condition (well, besides the obvious defects as noted in the several posts I've made.)
  • anonymous02anonymous02 Member Posts: 1,538
    Lots of problems with the Trailblazer (TRIALblazer) and clones.

    I was reading the Liberty forum, and the tone over there is VERY VERY different!

    Wow!
  • scottc454scottc454 Member Posts: 356
    I was reading the Liberty forum, and the tone over there is VERY VERY different!

    Funny, eh. I went over to that discussion and it's not all that different. There are plenty of problem posts, talk of lemons, and complaints of poor mileage.
  • anonymous02anonymous02 Member Posts: 1,538
    Not that I could see. The Libby owners sounded a WHOLE LOT more happy than Trailbalzer owners, as a group.
  • scottc454scottc454 Member Posts: 356
    Maybe a little bit, but not a whole lot. Anyway, there are demographics involved too.
    Upper end Trailblazers, Envoys, and Bravadas have attracted an older crowd and the fact is that as you get older you have a greater tendency to be crabby.
  • ross1962ross1962 Member Posts: 229
    "The Libby owners sounded a WHOLE LOT more happy than Trailbalzer owners..."

    That's because Chrysler owners are accustomed to settling for less.

    So, why don't you just go ahead and buy the damned thing? You've been praising it in here while knocking the tripletts. I really don't understand why you are constantly posting to this board if you don't own a triplett and apparently have no intention of every owning one.
  • anonymous02anonymous02 Member Posts: 1,538
    I am doing research for a future purchase. What's wrong with asking questions and making comparisons? I thought that is what these chat rooms are all about.
  • triumphbobktriumphbobk Member Posts: 25
    "I am doing research for a future purchase" You've been knocking the tripletts for months, you don't own one so you don't have any first hand knowledge of the problems, and you have stated repeatedly that you don't have any intention of buying one. It sounds like this part of your research is complete - the tripletts are off your list.

    This is not a "chat room" - that's where my teenager goes when he wants to socialize. This is a forum specifically for owners of these vehicles where we discuss problems we are experiencing so that collectively we can solve them and get on with it. There's other forums on Edmunds and elsewhere where you can "chat" about general issues concerning vehicle ownership - I'm sure you're aware of those.

    The only message I've gotten from you is that tripplet owners must be fools to hold on to them. Some of us who have lemons have gotten rid of them. Others are working through the problems. Most first year vehicles have problems. Most of us realized that when we bought them. Heck, we totaled our first Bravada, which had several of these problems, and then we went right back out and got another one to replace it. Why don't you at least take a test drive in one and see for yourself what the attraction is. They really are nice vehicles.

    Just please stop the high school-like "chat" that doesn't enhance the discussion, it's just annoying.
  • 2002slt2002slt Member Posts: 228
    I didn't know this was a "chat room".
  • anonymous02anonymous02 Member Posts: 1,538
    What is it?

    "forum"? "chat area"? "online community"?

    whatever.
  • ficussficuss Member Posts: 541
    I'm currently in my 4th lease. I have a Mitsubishi Diamonte, a very nice car by the way. I have never put down any money on any of the leases. I sign my name and leave the dealership. The '99 Diamonte was a $32k list car. With no down payment, my 4 yr. lease is $414 per month. This includes $25/month for the City of Chicago leasing tax. When the lease is up, try to use the car as trade in with another dealer. If the car is in demand or is in otherwise excellent shape, The dealer may pay it off for you and keep it for resale. If that happens, at least in Illinois, you can get a credit for state sales tax already paid on your car. In other words, if the car is worth $15k, you won't have to pay state sales tax of 8.75% on $15k. That's a $1300 savings on your new car (purchase or lease). Many people don't realize they have this equity in the car when they turn it in to the original leasing dealer. If the customer doesn't mention it, the dealer certainly won't.

    Frank
  • gam2gam2 Member Posts: 316
    blrmkr: It's the power steering pump you hear on cold start up. There is a TSB out there to replace the fluid with a cold weather fluid that eliminates the noise.

    baitisj: Thanks for the hint (I think). I'll talk to the dealer about it next time around.

    GAM
  • tidestertidester Member Posts: 10,059
    I've discovered that my mouse has a little wheel on it and when I see stuff I don't want to read I just give it a little turn - and voila! The item just flows away! Give it a try.

    tidester, host
  • richardcoulsonrichardcoulson Member Posts: 88
    I own both a liberty and a trailblazer. I can honestly say that the liberty does seem to be of a higher build quality. Most problems I have heard of with the liberty have been few and minor. Everyone I have talked to loves their liberty with the exception of the poor milege. The trailblazer has a better higher tech engine, gets a little better milege and has more bells and whistles for comfort such as automatic climate control. I think gm went too far with all the electronically controlled equipment and not far enough with the software to control it.
  • bravadajonbravadajon Member Posts: 60
    Post 9042...I agree.

    Post 9035...you bought and sold a problem Bravada and then bought another one????

    I had an 02 Bravada and sold it 9 mos after purchase. I would not repeat that .

    Go anonymous02!
  • dssnuffydssnuffy Member Posts: 39
    Thanks for the advice tidester. Snuffy
  • johntrjohntr Member Posts: 71
    I've heard of complaints on the M$ mouse w/wheel. slipping and jolting the page when the messages get deep. Fix was an upgraded control sensor, but I don't have the TSB. Anyone got it handy?

  • johntrjohntr Member Posts: 71
    Yeah, I was surprised that it took the PCM to fix on mine, but it's the same symptoms as lurkers. I pushed the button but nothing responded. Running in the other modes was fine. I thought it was going to be the washer button.

    John
  • pete2002pete2002 Member Posts: 36
    I agree too, I almost fell off my chair when the Dealer rep who tried to sell me extended warranty told me this thing has 9 on board computers controlling all sorts of things. By that time, I was so far into the deal that I actually convinced myself that it could not be as bad as he stated it. I fear for when these black boxes start acting up and I am out of warranty. Nevertheless, I think the lack of built in quality has and will continue to get the best from me first. Quality is an area where GM is ramping up on but perhaps not soon enough for some of us who already bought their vehicles. They are making great improvements for the 2004 or 2005 model years based on what I have read.
  • johntrjohntr Member Posts: 71
    Yes, I bought the extended warranty due to those modules. My mother-in-law has a Monte Carlo with sunroof. Her module went out which controlled the roof - it wouldn't close - and she had to fork out $1400 for it to be replaced, out of warranty. (1 hour labor ($68) + rest was the part). The ext. warranty is my insurance .
  • anjin_navanjin_nav Member Posts: 18
    I have to agree with everyone who questions whether the PCM (Powertrain Control Module) is the issue with the rear washer/wipers. However, Lurker also mentioned he wasn't sure whether it was PCM or BCM (Body Control Module) that was the problem. Actually, the BCM is a misnomer. It is the BBEC (Body Bussed Electrical Center), and is still probably not the problem.

    Check the little things first. Is the hose kinked? The washer nozzle attaches to the wiper arm with a simple clip held in place with a plastic dimple. A car wash brush can move the nozzle out of position and kink the hose, preventing fluid flow. If the wiper itself doesn't work, check your fuses. If that's not it, check--or have the dealer check--the wiper motor. Finally, if the simple things don't fix it, it may be time to suspect bigger things, but even then I'd suspect the liftgate module before I'd jump to the PCM!
  • tblazedtblazed Member Posts: 945
    Figured it was about time to reiterate my satisfaction with my TrailBlazer. '02, LS-2WD with 1SC package that gives you most of the options, manual temperature HVAC controls, and NO PROBLEMS. Owned since Jan '02 and have had it in the service dep't ONCE for a 30 minute fuel filter clip recall. A satisfied owner. Yes I would like to get the console rear DC outlet cover changed, and might go for the quieter rear springs someday (still have 2 years of warranty left) , but all vehicles and products in general go through continuous improvments during their life cycles. I expected a few changes from the "first-gen" triplets and was going to wait 'til '03 or '04 but the incentives and pricing got me to buy sooner. I am very happy with my decision and purchase.
  • malibu99malibu99 Member Posts: 305
    Mine stopped working about a month ago. When it was pressed the wiper didn't even start but it worked fine in all other settings. The problem was a bad switch. Hope that helps a bit.
  • st1100v4st1100v4 Member Posts: 96
    Front Bumper/Fascia gap: All models still had this "feature", including the new Isuszu Asccender except for the new Buick version. The Buick was on a turntable and couldn't be accessed to look at the interior.

    All (3 or 4) of the TBs had the front fascia "warp" to some extent.

    They had an XUV version of the Envoy but the roof and gate weren't working, so they couldn't demo it. The explanation was that it was a preproduction model.

    They had just one Bravada, and it had a hideous interior color scheme of all black dash area with tan remainder of the interior.

    Unrelated, but I've got to get one of the new Z's!
  • zapcatzapcat Member Posts: 64
    My dealer called and said 0% is now for 60 months on Trailblazer, Tahoe, and Suburbans. Yee-Haaw!
  • mfullmermfullmer Member Posts: 773
    I understand your leasing situation but mine is much different. I put money down on a lease in order to bring down the capitalized cost in order to keep from paying interest on that money during the lease.

    You stated that the "list" was $32k on your Mitsu but you did not state how much the negotiated purchase price was on the car. That is very important because monthly payments have nothing to do with the list price. They are basically the difference between the capitalized cost (Your purchase price minus any money/rebate you put down) and the residual cost plus interest on that amount.

    I save my money (and get GM and Citibank Drivers Advantage rebates) during my lease terms in order to reduce the cap cost on my next lease. I'd rather save that interest than pay it to the lease company.

    Regarding selling it to the dealer on turn in, if you negotiate your lease properly this should never be a good option. The best lease has the smallest cap cost (price you agreed to purchase the car for) and the highest residual value (value of the vehicle at lease end). I hope you are not thinking of doing that with your Triplet. I purchased my Bravada in May of 2001 when things were better and I negotiated a very high residual. Now the residuals (and values) are much lower. So much lower, in fact, that the "Trade-In" value now (with 1.5 years to go in the lease) is only $3,200.00 more than the residual value I negotiated in the lease. I suspect that the "Trade-In" value at the actual end of my lease will be several thousand dollars less than the residual value I negotiated. As far as getting back the sales tax, I'm not sure how that would work as you are paying for the use of the vehicle. I suspect the dealer is giving you this credit as a way to make sale and either eating it or padding it into the deal somehow.

    Good luck with your Mitsu.
  • xntrickxntrick Member Posts: 27
    I echo TBLAZED's satisfaction. Mine (build date 05/02) has everything on it: Bose, ECAS, sunroof, running boards, engine block heater blah blah blah and I can't say enough about the ride I'm getting. Mind you my reference point was a 1995 Ford Explorer. Got back from the inlaws this weekend and averaged 24 mpg at 70 mph (honestly). In mixed driving I get 20 (mostly highway-ish) which I have monitored since the beginning and it is routinely 20-ish. I've used this board to do the "Lauro" CAI and switched to Mobil 1 but that has been it. Regards.
  • macman246macman246 Member Posts: 118
    Still happy here too with my Envoy. 14K miles, build date 06/01, 1SH package with Bose and ECAS, 2WD, 4.10 axle. I'm up to 19 mpg (23 mpg highway @ 75+), excellent power and ride. I came from a '93 Ford Exploder, and wow what a huge difference.
  • anonymous02anonymous02 Member Posts: 1,538
    What is this warp or gap problem?

    Thanks.
  • zapcatzapcat Member Posts: 64
    What rear axle ratio do you have? 3.42, 3.73...

    Do you have 4WD?

    thanks in advance.
  • scottc454scottc454 Member Posts: 356
    Why does a 2WD triplet get better gas mileage than a 4WD version?

    Is is just because the 4WD version is heavier or is there an extra drivetrain power loss from a 4WD even in 2Hi mode.
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