Buick Rainier, Chevy TrailBlazer, GMC Envoy

kgbkahnk · January 2003

I'm with you on the first oil change: I had the oil changed in my TB the first time at about 1000 miles, and my gut is struggling to come to terms with letting the 'puter tell me when it thinks it's time to change the oil. I'm sure that I'm wasting money, but I still tend to subscribe to 3 months/3000 miles between oil changes. Just seems like the price of an oil change is a small price to pay when weighed against the costs associated with waiting too long, especially if you intend for this vehicle to be in your fleet after its warranty expires.

Good luck with your Envoy.

blrmkr · January 2003

I've noticed a problem over the past few weeks with the manual control of the floor heat. I start my TB and set the control on Defrost for 5+ minutes. When I turn the knob from the Defrost position (far right) to the floor heat position (top), the heat blows out of the dash vents and not the floor. I figured out a post-warranty fix of turning the knob from the far right, to the far left, and then the top. Has anyone else encountered this issue?

redline65 · January 2003

sloth501 - We've had our Envoy XL for about 2 weeks now and we're averaging around 18 mpg (4200 w/3.73 rear end). I'm pretty happy with the gas mileage given it's still breaking in. Haven't seen the air bag light come on yet. I'll probably get my oil changed between 2000 and 3000 miles.

johntr · January 2003

I've adjusted my timelines to have my oil changed around 5500 miles which seems to be about 50% on the oil life indicator. I agree, I can't get used to waiting for the oil change indicator to tell me. Also, I've been watching my air cleaner (standard, facory install) to tell me that it needs changing. I haven't seen any level change on that indicator yet. I have 34k miles on my 2002 TB LT. May of this year will be my 2nd year of ownership.

John

scottc454 · January 2003

You may want to open up the air box and check that filter. I checked mine at 30000 miles and it was extremely dirty, but the indicator showed that it was fine. Either the indicator is optimistic, or it takes a hell of a lot of dirt to start restricting air flow.
Since then I've installed the K&N intake.

chump4 · January 2003

My TB sucks but that's another post. I'm taking the POS for repairs tomorrow to the dealer and my questions are Dose anyone have these issues and if so what is the TSB and did it work.
1 Wind noise coming from doors top back right area
2 Tranny is very clunky. Clucks at D/S from first to second often.
3 Heat blows cool air from vent sometimes.
4 Slow as hell from the hole shot.
5 Tranny vibrated big time on steep hill the other day

It's for sale if anyone wants an '02 4x4 Pewter Lt with 31K

tidester · January 2003

Just a note - we don't buy and sell on the Town Hall message boards! :-)

tidester, host

scw111 · January 2003

Just ordered a new '03 TB LT, pewter, with LT package #2, running boards, 6-disc changer, Bose sound system, cargo mat and net. Got GM supplier price of about $32,500. Expect delivery in 6-8 weeks! Will check back in at that time with my impressions.

redline65 · January 2003

Well I guess I got a decent deal on my '03 Envoy XL SLT 2WD because it was about $32,500 with Comfort & convenience package, polished alloys, locking diff. & traction control, side airbags, running boards and sunroof. Also got 0% financing for 60 months.

tblazed · January 2003

Consider the fact that these engines hold 40% more oil than the standard 5 qts, plus there is almost no oil usage between oil changes and the contamination from blow-by is minimal. I certainly feel safe letting mine go 6-7,000 mi or up to a year btwn oil changes. I did change the original oil at about 1200 mi though just to get the break-in particles etc out. If you do a lot of short drives the oil can get contaminated with moisture if you don't get it hot enough to evaporate off the condensation but other than that the 7 qts capacity will extend the oil life.

Jan 19 will be my 1st anniversary of ownership of my TrailBlazer and ONCE the air bag light stayed on after I started the engine. I shut it off, restarted and everything has been normal since. That's been about 9 months ago. Just had to re-boot the computer.

cmack4 · January 2003

tblazed hit some good points with these vehicles. I've been through 3 oil changes with mine now, and I've got 15K on my Bravada. I changed oil first at 1500 miles to get any loose shavings and original oil out. After that, I've been going every 6K. Granted, I've been using Mobil 1 since my first change, so I'm being even more conservative, but the oil at 6K is still a nice amber color and totally translucent! When I did the second oil change(about 7500 miles) I also drained the rear differential (since the triplets drivetrain is rear wheel biased) and replaced fluid with Mobil 1 75w90 gear oil (for locking diffs)and the original stuff definitely had a lot of shavings in it, so I would recommend you do that fairly early as well!

The air cleaner on mine never had time to accumulate much dirt before I replaced it with the K&N, but a good rule of thumb is to check it every 15K miles.

I've never experienced any of the electrical gremlins *knock on plood*, but the vast majority of users here report that any electrical problems will disappear when you shut the ignition off and turn it back on.

Again, these are just my experiences, but I prefer to be overkill, especially with the performance of the first maintenence items after the vehicle leaves the factory. I plan on dropping my tranny pan fairly soon and putting Mobil 1 Synthetic ATF in there as well, even if it only gets an optimistic 80% of the old fluid out. I look at it this way, I must be doing something right. I've had 2 vehicles that I've kept long term and both vehicles went over 200K miles before I got rid of them (one was still running good, the other had a cylinder head leak that froze one of the pistons) and I now have another veicle that has over 150K on it now, all with no major non-maintenence service! Not to say you can't have problems even when you keep up with preventive maintenence, but in the big picture things will work out better for you.

neoutdoorsman · January 2003

Just bought 03 Envoy XL, had it about one week
wife started it to let warm up went outside to
leave for work, air bag light was on scared her.
She did not shut off and restart, however as soon
as she took off out the drive, it went out as she
started moving. I thought was just a glitch about
200 miles on it. It has not repeated again, will
keep posted so far no other problems, both of us
love the vehicle.

Neoutdoorsman

borjoh · January 2003

blrmkr - I had a similar problem with running the manual heat on the floor. There was too much heat coming out of the defroster and not enough on the floor. Had the TSB done on the heater duct but still had the problem. Working with the dealer, resolved the problem by setting the control knob 2 or 3 clicks to left of center. Had a little heat coming from the dash but that can be closed off. I know thats a little involved but at least my eyes aren't drying out on a long trip.
Envoy SLE, 39000 mi, 3:42 gears, had a few minor warranty fixes and learning a lot from the posts.
Excellent truck, getting 22+ mpg on summer trips fully loaded w/air and 75-80mph interstate. Pulls my 3600lb boat with ease but not as good gas mileage.

baltychen · January 2003

I had my wind noise fixed because of the right side second door weather strip was loose.Mfgr did not glue them. I can pull it out easy with two fingers. Every time when the drive side door cranked down 3" the wistling noise came on and drive me nuts.

pewterxl02 · January 2003

I just noticed yesterday that my windshield had a little round splintering mark in the center of my winshield. It looks like a dot with six legs coming off of it about 1/2 inch in diameter. While driving we did nit hear any loud bangs on the windshield to cause a crack. Has anyone else had a similar problem? Does anyone know if this is covered warranty or an out of pocket expense.
Just curious if anyone replaced their windshield and what it cost?

pepper50 · January 2003

Pewter:
Before you replace the windshield, check with your insurance company. Mine will pay a company to fill the chips with no charge to me, regardless of one's deductible. (You can even choose the company). I have had 3 chips filled on 2 vehicles (not my Envoy, but previously). None of them have spread. You want to do it before it gets too big though. If your insurance company does the same as mine, it can't hurt to try first, especially if your deductible is high. The companies usually bill the insurance company directly, around $50 for one chip, a reduced price for two, etc. You'll still see some visible evidence of the chip, but if it's not interfering with your vision, it may not be a big deal. I know it's a pain to have that happen to a new vehicle though. Good luck!

rjs852 · January 2003

I have been following the board for some time know and have found it to be very informative regarding the triplets.
I have a '03 Bravada and have searched high and low for after market wheels to fit with limited success. I'm interested in a classic wheel with a traditional lip ie: Boyd's or Eagle Alloys and with the exception of the Boyd's which are over priced I can not find anything.
Does anyone have any suggestions?

redline65 · January 2003

I would hurry and get it fixed, as it won't cost you anything at this point. Once it gets as big as a dollar bill and the windshield will have to be replaced you will be responsible for the insurance deductible, or you can pay it out of pocket.

macman246 · January 2003

In the shop 6 days this time, trying to diagnose random stalling/near stalls when stopped at traffic lights. After a call to GM, they replace the ignition, and so far so good. I'm not real confident that this will fix it, however, but who knows?

Previously they replaced the PCM (2 days) and throttle body (12 days) without correcting the problem.

bryancos · January 2003

As soon as you get a chip, cover it with a piece of clear tape (yes, on the outside) and get it repaired ASAP. The tape prevents small dirt particles from entering the damaged area and will help ensure a successful repair. Safe-Lite gave me a few clear round patches for any new chips I get in the future should I need to have more repairs made.

Practically all insurance companies waive your deductible for the windshield repair so there's no out of pocket expense to you, and the glass shops/repair centers do all the paperwork for you too...

redline65 · January 2003

Can anyone who has purchased a Major Guard plan for their triplet please tell me what line on the pricing sheet was used for the quote? The finance person pointed me to the line with the "4" on the left side, but didn't really explain what the "4" meant or how they got that number. I'm assuming the higher the number, the more expensive the price of the plan.

gator36 · January 2003

Going from memory.

The number 4 is a vehicle class.

Apparently all GM vehicle have been classified into these groups. Then they use this to locate the cost of the Ext warranty based on the years, deductable and miles you want. One chart for pricing and another chart for vehicle classification.

cebteb · January 2003

I purchased my '03 Bravada in mid-October and I am thrilled with this SUV. Best vehicle I have owned (out of 8 new) and one of the best SUVs I've driven or rode in. I got hooked on the Bravada at an 3/02 auto show in Denver, and test track drove it and other SUVs in 6/02. I limited consideration to mid-size SUVs as that is what I needed size, power, mileage, and fit-in-garage-wise.

I concluded the Acura MDX was the best overall mid-size SUV. But, similarly equipped, it lists for thousands more than the Bravada and the dealers won't deal. The Pilot is just a poor man's Bravada, so it may be worth a look. But, I think a Pilot loaded equal to a Bravada would list for as much and once again the dealers won't deal.

I drove the Highlander through a test track right after the Bravada. It is a nice SUV with competent performance, but it is noticeably smaller inside, not as responsive through a slalom course (slow steering response, lack of power, mushy brakes), and pretty boring in the looks department.

The new 4Runner wasn't out when I looked at SUVs, but I eliminated the old one for being under-powered, cramped inside, top heavy, w/ an enormous step height. The new one will need a lot of fixes to make it competitive w/ the triplets and probably won't compete w/ purchase prices.

Finally, I chose the Bravada over the Envoy and Trailblazer based on looks, AWD, and my perception that the luxury class triplet would probably be the quietest and smoothest of the 3. The AWD is nice unless you do serious 4-wheeling (I don't) and it really isn't exactly the same system as the FT4WD setting in an Envoy or Trailblazer. BTW, you do give up some small stuff w/ an '03 versus an '02, but you gain some peace of mind that most of the bugs have been corrected and you get re-designed piston heads and 5 more hp in the best damn engine GM has produced since the 327 CID V8.

cebteb · January 2003

If any '03 triplet owners pursue retro-fitting a glovebox and/or under-hood light, please post part numbers on this board. Lack of the GB light is starting to irritate me. GM should offer the retro-fits as an accessory and let the dealers service department make some extra money. I think I'd pay for it. BTW, the BCM issue is pretty lame. I've never heard of anyone running down their battery because they left the glovebox open. Too obvious!

scottc454 · January 2003

I agree with nearly all your points, except the part about the 4.2 being the best engine since the 327. That would mean it's better than the 454, and I simply cannot accept that.

cebteb · January 2003

A couple of weeks ago I had the air bag warning light stay on after startup in my 2 and a half month old '03 Bravada. I turned off the ignition and re-started the vehicle. Light went out as normal. As others have noted, it appears to be an issue no different than the transient bugs you encounter with your PC. A simple re-boot of the vehicle's computers or your PC usually fixes the anomoly.

cebteb · January 2003

I guess the 427 and 454 were pretty impressive engines, but a lot of their performance was due to their sheer volume.

As an over-the-hill mechanical engineer, I've always been most impressed when you can get a lot out of a little machine w/o it self-destructing in the process. Thus, the high-winding, powerful, but smooth 327 really was impressive. This new I4.2 is like that. Smooth , quick wind, butt-in-the-seat power, but it doesn't rattle and shake in the process. Just a preference I guess.

tblazed · January 2003

"I've never heard of anyone running down their battery because they left the glovebox open." Probably because no one would admit it. I admit it- I have. That's why I consider it a worthwhile feature. When you drive a couple of different vehicles, you might not check on that open glovebox for a few days. OOPS! But my TrailBlazer won't let me screw up like that. Also, I usually open the hood and leave it open after a really hot drive home in the summer to let the engine and all the other components under the hood cool off faster. On my older cars I had to remove the bulb under the hood. It's nice to have the engine compartment light automatically turn off. I have also left the interior-dome lights on several times on a Friday, only to come out on Sunday or Monday morning to a dead battery. Anyway, the worst thing someone can do to a car battery is to discharge it way down. Preventing near total battery discharge will certainly help extend the battery life. That's the purpose of the 20 min time-out.

jwinky · January 2003

Macman,

Keep us posted on the stalling/near stalls at traffic lights. Mine has been doing it (only when cold) and I have been noticing it has been occuring when engine temp is about 180 (first major mark on the guage).

Mine has not stalled yet but yesterday morning I wiached the RPM's drop all the way down to 100 (not a typo) before the engine recovered. It has be a progressive problem, with the revs getting lower and lower each time, which leads me to believe that it is a calibration/software or mechanical issue, and not a control module issue.

I am dropping it off at the dealer tonight and the low is supposed to be around 30, so conditions should be right, plus I am going to leave specific instructions for them to go through in the morning.

I will keep you posted and wish me luck.

JAW

daytrip · January 2003

I had my "02 Envoy to the dealer yesterday to get several items fixed along with oil, filter, rotate and fuel filter. My dealer couldn't find any information on the fix for the "cool upshift delay" or the rear power plug cover. Any help with specifics to direct the dealer to the proper place would be appreciated. This place has been a wonderful source of information.
My dealer is recommending that the fuel filter be replaced twice as often as GM says at every 15,000 miles. They say they are seeing early fuel pump failures with large GM vehicles that use more fuel. Yes, I know they are selling more filters that way.

tblazed · January 2003

"Calibration to correct cold start idle surge and hesitation" Part# 12579251

"New Calibration to improve feel of 1-2 upshift" Part# 12579255

TSB 02-08-49-009: "Interference with Center Console Auxillary Power Outlet Cover and Rear Seat Cushion"

Let us know how the new calibrations work out!

rubicon1 · January 2003

Has anyone successfully completed a HID retrofit in a TB? I was considering it, but with the DRL's and the low beams going off when high beams are on, concerns me a little with the operation of the HID's. If anyone has any tips please let me know.

2002slt · January 2003

Coming soon to a TV near you.

"LOS ANGELES - A group hoping to lessen U.S. reliance on foreign oil on Wednesday debuted two television ads that link gas-guzzling sport utility vehicles to terrorist funding.

The ads mimic spots that link drug money to terrorism.

One commercial features a child's voiceover and shows a man filling his gas tank and footage of terrorist training. The closing statement: "Oil money supports some terrible things. What kind of mileage does your SUV get?"

The other ad shows people talking about their SUVs. One says, "My kids think it's cool." Another says, "I helped blow up a nightclub.""

What is this country coming to?

cmack4 · January 2003

Alright, who gave the "I don't like SUV's" people air time?

It kills me how zealots attack SUV's for political, environmental, and safety issues... All things relative folks. A person who drives a compact that gets twice as many mpg as a full size SUV, but chooses to drive twice as many miles does as much damage as the full size SUV. For that reason, should we put a legal cap on the number of miles we can drive each year... or better yet ration how many gallons of gas we can use? Other's protest SUV's because they are "incompatible" with smaller vehicles during crashes. Hmmm... wonder how compatible school buses, Mack trucks, even Minivans and other light trucks are with smaller vehicles upon impact? Awareness for the sake of helping consumers make educated choices is one thing, but this sort of propaganda is ridiculous!

kgbkahnk · January 2003

I had just read the same article and was coming here to post, but I see I've been beaten to the punch.

I know i'm preaching to the choir here, but if you don't like SUV's, DON'T BUY ONE!!!!!!

And don't show your mug on my TV and tell ME not to buy one either!

condoriole · January 2003

I agree. I actually saw this commercial before all of the hoopla and I had to do a double take. It's offensive and rediculous even though in the end it may in fact be somewhat true. God I hate admitting that.
So what should I do, sell my boat and truck and fish from shore because some jack%&@ driving a hyundia thinks I should? Go scratch! There was a report the other night and it showed this woman who is spearheading the whole campaign (I think). Anyway, she's a soccer mom who had no use for driving an SUV but she was. The light bulb went off in her dimly lit skull that she should buy a smaller car and I guess she feels the rest of us should live like her.
To her and everyone behind that ad: come bring your hyundia to my house and tow my boat for me and while you're at it fit my family of four in there with skis and gear and let's go up the mountains for a ski weekend.... oh that's right that would be impossible wouldn't it!
Until we discover an alternative fuel source get out of my way cause I need to fill up.

scw111 · January 2003

Where do you find the TSBs? Is there a web site? Thanks in advance.

stever · January 2003

For the "Detroit Project":

I don't like SUVs, why do you?

Are SUVers Unpatriotic?

For TSBs:

The Edmunds Maintenance Guide

alldata.com

www.nhtsa.dot.gov/

Steve, Host

tblazed · January 2003

The part numbers I posted came from the GM Vehicle Calibration Info web site

http://calid.gm.com/vci/

by entering in my TrailBlazer VIN after I read in the Dec '02 Techlink

http://service.gm.com./gmtechlink/images/issues/dec02/TLDec02e.html

that they had released a revised engine/transmission service calibration on July 28, 2002 "Cold Upshift Delay". A little detective work that dealer didn't want to bother with apparently.

tblazed · January 2003

I think the groups who are lambasting SUV owners as unpatriotic ought to go back to the last question being asked of us - What Would Jesus Drive, or better yet what would he DO? I don't think JC would be trying to start a class war between SUV drivers and the other 50% of the drivers out there!

scottc454 · January 2003

I think it's unpatriotic to get all worked up over this type of stuff. That's a drawback to our freedom - you sometimes have to put up with opinions that irritate the hell out of you. Those commercials are way less annoying than those of Old Navy or Subway. I'm so sick of Jared and Clay Henry.

Anyway, how come pickup trucks have managed to avoid all this flack? They're just as inneffecient and misused.

redline65 · January 2003

"Anyway, how come pickup trucks have managed to avoid all this flack? They're just as inneffecient and misused."

I agree. Don't forget about full-sized vans also.

tidester · January 2003

You can join the "patriotism" discussion here: Are SUVers Unpatriotic?

tidester, host

tblazed · January 2003

I certainly notice the bad "rap" SUVs always seem to get from the news media when there's an accident. With an SUV it's always reported as though the SUV was responsible regardless what the driver was doing. I can't think of too many other vehicle "types" that are characterized like that. Maybe 18-wheelers.
I did the patriotic thing last year and bought an American-Made TrailBlazer to help support the economy and "Keep America Rolling" ... or something like that...

polarbear6 · January 2003

Took my 2002 to the dealer yesterday.

1. Lost heat to driver's side twice. (Could not duplicate)

2. Passenger seat belt tightens. (New belt ordered)

3. Vibration at hi way speeds. (They actually felt that one this time, and recommended tire balancing; which was on the paper I gave them. Their cost to balance was $35. My husband told them that we would take it to our regular place. Turns out they had already done it without approval, so we got it free.) Have not had a chance to test it due to our weather.

Noticed when cleaning off the road salt when I got it home that we have the paint scraped due to the plate housing. Took it in today and they would order the gasket. Got a call later to set up the time and was told it would take an hour. Do they not fix the paint, or just cover it with the gasket? Would like to know others experiences before taking it in.

Thanks

PolarBear6

redline65 · January 2003

I found a web site that lists the categories for the Major Guard plan:

http://www.gmoutlet.com/gmpppriceindex.html

Looks like my finance person may have been trying to screw me, she told me mine was a "4" even though I bought an Envoy XL 2WD, which should be a "3". Good thing I didn't buy it.

tblazed · January 2003

Then again it could be related to this: TSB 02-03-09-002 Intermittent Boom, Rumbling Noise and/or Disturbance Heard in Passenger Compartment While Driving at Highway Speeds (Replace Rear Coil Springs); 2002 Chevrolet TrailBlazer, GMC Envoy with Rear Coil Springs.

How many miles on your TrailBlazer?

paulpro · January 2003

Does anyone have a copy of TSB 02-08-49-009: "Interference with Center Console Auxillary Power Outlet Cover and Rear Seat Cushion"

I would like to learn just exactly what it says before I counter my dealer

Thanks

twinrotts · January 2003

I have never seen one of these on any TB I've looked at. Anyone have a picture and a part number?

pauleul · January 2003

There is no point in painting unless the primer has also been worn through. Your dealer probably will paint it if you demand, but will just delay the whole process since they will have to wait for the paint to dry. The gasket will totally cover the chipped paint. Installing the gasket takes about 30 minutes.

See this link for more info:

http://www.timlauro.com/cars/trailblazer/paint-chipping-before-after.htm

Buick Rainier, Chevy TrailBlazer, GMC Envoy

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