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Buick Rainier, Chevy TrailBlazer, GMC Envoy



  • tblazedtblazed Posts: 945
    I logged in today to this web site and it's ... different. Guess I am going to have to get out my magnifying glass. Text is so small I can barely read it! NOT GOOD!! If I increase font size, then on every other web site I go, to the text is way too big. I use a 17" LCD monitor in its native resolution 1280X1024 which is not a problem on ay other web site I go to. That darn new BANNER AD on the right seems to be crowding out the font size. Also I primarily use Netscape 4.7. Checked it with IE and it isn't as bad but everything is squeezed vertically to accomodate that new banner.

    Let me know when you guys get this fixed. I'll be back then. I can't handle this.

    later, tblazed Ed
  • macman246macman246 Posts: 118
    I've been very fortunate that my Envoy hasn't stalled while moving (knock on simulated wood!). It's always when I'm stopped, which is still dangerous since I almost got rear-ended the other night when I couldn't go on the green light. And yes, it does seem to be related to the air suspension inflating, either right when it starts or right after inflation. Deflation also lowers the engine idle slightly, but not as much as inflation.

    Surges and electrical noise on the data bus seem to be the likely glitch that would cause the computers to hiccup and cause the engine to stall or create a near-stall condition. But who knows??? GM??? Hello, are you out there???

    I really want to keep my Envoy (assuming I get it back in working condition after their 4th attempt to fix this problem). But my confidence level in my truck has fallen considerably and I'll probably trade it in (or initiate a buyback) real soon.
  • jwinkyjwinky Posts: 59
    I, too, have been fortunate that my Envoy has only come close to stalling at stop lights. However, I am not sure that the air suspension is the sole cause, because I do not have that option. Mine was built in April of 2002, when there was a shortage of parts.

    Macman, I am not sure that the recalibration fixed the issue. This morning, right as I was stepping on the gas, the engine RPM's seemed to drop and there was a hesitation, so I am still in the same boat as you trying to get this fixed. Looks like it will take at least three tries on mine.

    BTW, does your vehicle on seem to do this when cold (engine temp below the first major tick on the temp gauge)?

  • Thanks for the info tblazed. My Envoy was built 10/02 according to the sticker but I may have a small tank anyway. I filled it up when the fuel alert light was on and the estimated remaining range was only 20 mi and it only took 18.5 gal. Looks like I'll be stopping for fuel a little more often than I would like.
  • gt01gt01 Posts: 6
    I can't access previous post but believe it was #9654 where I told of problems with my Bravada not starting and being towed. As late as yesterday afternoon, I was being told there was nothing wrong. I said they could keep it until I got in writing from Olds there was nothing wrong. This morning I received a call saying two recalls had come out and it would be repaired by late this afternoon. So much for "there is nothing wrong."
  • macman246macman246 Posts: 118
    I didn't think a software update would fix the problem. According to my service advisor I have all the latest.

    The stalling/near-stalling seems to occur within the first mile driven when cold. That is pretty consistent. However I have had it stall/near-stall when fully warmed up too. It does not seem to matter if I have the climate control and/or heated seats on or off either. The only reason why I keep mentioning the air suspension is because when I have near-stalls the rear is being inflated just after the idle recovers.

    On occasion I have noticed a major hesitation/drop in RPM's when stomping on the gas. If I take it easy on the gas it seems to accelerate fine.

    I went ahead and filed a complaint this morning with the NHTSA to put my $.02 in. I've also contacted a lemon law attorney who will evaluate all of my repair orders this week. I didn't want to go down this path, but it looks like that's where I have to go to alleviate my safety and financial concerns.
  • blrmkrblrmkr Posts: 40
    "The stalling/near-stalling seems to occur within the first mile driven when cold. That is pretty consistent."

    I've noticed the same thing with my TB. I've had several RPM drops, but only 1 stall in 40k miles.

    I wonder if the new engine calibration for the MY2003 triplets cured the problem that some of us with MY2002s are having.
  • tidestertidester Posts: 10,059
    No need to get out the magnifying glass! Most browsers will let you change the size of the display. I'm running Opera at 110% and things look great. IE and NetScape will let you adjust the size too.

    tidester, host
  • mfullmermfullmer Posts: 819
    Well I had the battery post breaking off incident which caused it not to start one day but I've never had a stalling event. Good thing as the new owner is about to pick it up and I'm off to get my new Tahoe!
  • scottc454scottc454 Posts: 356
    No need to get out the magnifying glass! Most browsers will let you change the size of the display. I'm running Opera at 110% and things look great. IE and NetScape will let you adjust the size too.

    Why not set it at 100% and make the font size look good at 100%, like every other site out there?

    This is a lot like Spinal Tap...

    "Why not just make 10 louder and have it go to 10?"

    "{pause} These go to 11"
  • tgp1810tgp1810 Posts: 112
    I really like the new style of the site. It seems more organized. I didn't have to change the size of the text, it stayed the same.
  • scottc454scottc454 Posts: 356
    It looks fine in Internet Explorer 6 with text size of medium, which is the normal setting.
    On Netscape 7.01 it is too small at the normal setting of 100%. Don't know why.
  • Just had to add my .02 as well. I have a 05/02 build date TB LS, and all was well until the "latest and greatest" downloads were performed (not at my request). Mine now exhibits similiar symptoms as others mentioned, such as the RPM's dropping slightly on light throttle when starting out. Also get a slight dimming of the headlights but the volts are fine. Totally dissatisfied with the recalibration. Lost low end torque and powerful feel. It only starts to feel normal after 2k RPM's, whereas it used to be fine after 600 RPM's.
    Hope GM is listening. Give dealers the ability to go back to older programs.
    Still have slight vibration problem too at 60mph.
    Should I file a formal complaint as well??
  • ficussficuss Posts: 541
    tgp1810: I'm sorry if I led you think I admire Bill Gates. I had my toungue firmly in my cheek when I recommended Mr. Gates be used to find the glitch. I have stated earlier that the software running the tripletts often behaves like Windows 95. My reference to Bill Gates was strictly negative.
     On the stalling problem, lets remember that the investigation sounds like stalling at high speeds is the target problem. Any car can and will occasionally stall.

  • gam2gam2 Posts: 316
    Well I'm now an Envoy owner as GM and I reached an agreement on my Bravada. Boy, they really cheapened up the 2003's, considering the price increase. I will say the drivetrain (engine/tranny) is much improved over the Bravada. Otherwise they are pretty much similar.

    Anyone know how to adjust doors on these? The top edge of the rear door does not touch the weatherstrip and need to adjusted inward at the top. Do they just bend them?

  • 41564156 Posts: 31
    All stalls and loss of power during acceleration should be reported by complaint at . An engine should never stall....never.
  • twinrottstwinrotts Posts: 161
    Came on board tonight with the intention of asking about benes of latest software on overall performance.
    Here in Western NY, temp has not exceed low 20's in weeks. Tonight for the first time, I experienced what I would call slight hesitation shortly after a cold start. Temp gauge was barely off left bottom. I was thinking of having the updates done next week but wanted some assurance that in the long run, performance improved. If not, I can live with an occasional hesitation. So what's the verdict... leave well enough alone, or get the updates??
  • I don't know all this tech talk but I am experiencing some of the problems y'all are talking about and my '02 Envoy is in the garage alot and I think that the "trained GM tech" come out from under my suv scratching their..... heads and tell me that nothing is wrong. they must have gone to school with psychologist- its all in my head! you guys have been a great help and I am going to see my gm shrink armed with ideas this time. I also printed up the gm tech link.
    just so y'all know, I have brake issues, strange noise, and other things going on. this is my first GMC. I love my Envoy, I have a great stereo( my husband says he can hear me a block away). one of the best vehicles I have ever had.
    I am a PROUD AMERICAN and the people that drive BMW's for 2 hours to work and 2 hours back everyday use more gas than I do in a week driving my SUV. so stick that in a commercial!
    Thanks for all your help again. I may come back for advice if my problem continue. good luck with all of yours. Any advice you would like to add go for it.
  • edf117edf117 Posts: 6
    I decided to take my 2002 Envoy SLE (build date 06/01)in for a few fixes at 13,500 miles:

    1. The front bumper fascia was loose. The dealer had previously tightened this up -- but I figured what the heck, go ahead and have the new designed braces installed! The fix for loose front bumper fascia is TSB #02-08-62-001 for VIN prior to -22375120. The updated brace part numbers for the Envoy are: Right #15184433 left #15184432. Braces are on order.

    2. The accelerator pedal has a popping, clicking or crunching sound coming from the associated bracket or switch ONLY while you are driving the vehicle! I can push up and down on the pedal all day long when the vehicle is not being driven and it WON'T make the noise! Pedal part #15150990 is on order.

    3. The front passenger seat shoulder belt locks up prematurely. See TSB #02-09-40-003 for the fix which is to replace the seat belt retractor assembly with the updated part. Seat Belt part #88956143 is on order.

    4. The center console rear aux power port cover is wearing a spot in rear seat when folded forward. See TSB #02-08-49-009 for the fix. Aux Power Outlet Retainer part #15173672 is on order.

    I had my Envoy in for service last June for rear license housing gasket, fan noise, loose door foam baffles, insufficient heat flow to drivers feet, and a computer reprogram for throttle hesitation. My service manager (Rally GMC, Palmdale, CA) always takes care of me!

    I will post an update when the parts are all installed in a few days.

    I have removed my roof rack completely, installed a Volant cold air intake, and switched to Mobil 1 synthetic oil. I get a solid 17 mpg in mixed driving -- even with my foot shoved in it most of the time! For an SUV, this thing screams!

    My next project is to install a Belltech suspension system, kit #141.

    This is a great site! All of the shared information (facts and opinions) has proven to be an extremely valuable tool for maintaining my vehicle. Thanks to all! :)

  • blazedblazed Posts: 2
    I am new to the discussions and was wondering if anyone has had problems with power steering in cold weather. Cold meaning having the TB setting out over night in 0-15 degree weather. When turing the steering wheel, sounds like squeaking noise when leaving the center position and back during a turn. It finally goes away after running for a while. Thought possibly a problem in power steering fluid thickening and straining through the pump. Anything like this encountered elsewhere?
  • daytripdaytrip Posts: 10
    My dealer tells me that TSB #02-08-49-009 (Aux power outlet cover) is directed to the Trailblazer only and not to the Envoy. Does anyone know if this is true and if there is a separate TSB for the Envoy?
  • Ed, tell us more about removing your roof rack completely. By completely, you obviously mean more than just the cross bars (which i've done as well).

    So you removed the main rails? What about all the black strips that run the length of the vehicle? How'd you do it? What kind of holes were left over and how'd you plug 'em? How reversible is it (i.e. if you need the roof rack back on for a weekend trip, can you quickly/temporarily put it back on?)?

  • gator36gator36 Posts: 294
    Your dealer is on something.....

    Here is a copy of the TSB and it clearly states all three of the triplets...

    Interference with Center Console Rear Auxiliary Power Outlet Cover and Rear Seat Cushion (Replace Rear Auxiliary Power Outlet Retainer and Cover) #02-08-49-009 - (10/04/2002)
    Interference with Center Console Rear Auxiliary Power Outlet Cover and Rear Seat Cushion (Replace Rear Auxiliary Power Outlet Retainer and Cover)
    2002 Chevrolet TrailBlazer

    2002 GMC Envoy

    2002 Oldsmobile Bravada

    Built Prior to May, 2002

    Some customers may comment on an indentation mark or, in extreme cases, a puncture of the rear left seat cover. When the left rear seat bottom is raised and the seat back is folded down flat, the seat bottom rests against the back of the center console. The auxiliary power outlet cover, located on the back of the center console, contacts the seat bottom. If enough weight or pressure is applied to the seat bottom in this position, the auxiliary power outlet cover may leave an indentation or possibly damage the seat cover.

    The auxiliary power outlet cover has a raised finger tab. This raised tab on the cover may cause the condition.
  • pepper50pepper50 Posts: 195
    Thanks for the info, Gator. Have any of you had this replaced? If so, how involved was it, and did it take very long. And more importantly, does the fix work? i.e., is there no longer any imprint on the rear seat when folded down?
  • I recently had an appointment for an amp install to the Bose for a sub box. When I get there they tell me the amp install can happen, BUT the sound wont be what I want. The way the Bose is designed, the crossovers inside the Bose amp wont generate enough bass to the add on amps crossover, or something along those lines. Basically he said it would work, but it would be more of a midrange sound then anything.

    Has anyone added an amp to the Bose for a box? If so, how was it done to get the best performance out of it? I would like to change the whole system out and then use the subs, but that wont be for a while and I cant stand the idea of an amp and subs sitting there looking at me. Any help would be appreciated.
  • daytripdaytrip Posts: 10
    Thanks for the help. I have printed the text on the TSB out and will carry it with me to the dealer.
  • I browsed the NHTSA database for '02 Bravada info after someone mentioned that they had opened an investigation on the "stalling at speed" problem. One owner report caught my attention in that it stated that a 'Service brakes now' message came on the display then the engine shut down (at 65 mph). "Service mgr indicated engine is designed to shutdown immediately when this fault appears" when he went in to have the right rear ABS sensor replaced. That's just a service guy not knowing what he's talking about, right! Could it be possible that the software is designed to shut the engine off at speed??? The report also claimed that he had another occurance where the message was 'Low oil pressure' and the engine shut off. In both cases he was able to restart after a short period of time.

    The thing that makes me wonder is that the one time this happened to me, a coolant temperature sensor had apparently gone on the fritz, although I didn't see a particular message on the display, just lit up as you would expect with the key on and not running.
  • jmltribjmltrib Posts: 20
    I purchased a 2002 Envoy SLT after the recommendation of many of you on this board. I very much love the vehicle (thanks for the recs everyone). I am, however, experiencing a few "little" things that I would like some advice on. Please advise. Any help is much appreciated

    1. Issue with a buzzing noise in the center counsel which sounds like plastic rubbing together. When I hold in on the radio, the sound decreases but doesn't totally go away. Usually happens going over bumps.

    2. Ticking noise that seems to be most prevalent when the air conditioner compressor kicks in...Could there be something loose/coming into contact with the compressor?

    3. Rattling noise that sounds like its coming from under the center of the vehicle somewhat under the console like something hitting something else.

    4. Does anyone have issues with the cargo cover making noise? The service guy said that 9 times out of 10 it's installed wrong yet still makes the noise after he installed it "correctly".

    Thanks in advance for the help!!
  • The interanl cross overs should be before the amplification in the factory amp. This should not prevent your installer from using an external cross over to filter out the mid range frequencies. Even if the internal cross overs happened after the amplification circuit, your installer should be able to find a combination of choke and capicitor to prevent the mid's from getting to your sub amplifier. It may take some experimentation, which in turn could take time and result in less profit for the installer. It would be nice if we could get some specs on the factory amplifier's cross over points.
    I put in some 3.5" coaxil speakers in my dash. The highs and mid's are now much better. The factory bass is ok, but not very tight.
  • gt01gt01 Posts: 6
    I got my Bravada back today, in post 9678, I mentioned recalls, I meant bulletins. Mine stopped when I placed it in reverse and had gone about 20'. Three times, about 6 months apart. Course if it doesn't happen with the service people it doesn't get fixed. Finally they got hold of some one and found two bulletins

    02-08-64-017, moisture in door connection-ok
    02-06-03-001, ignition wire chaffing , repair wire and cover area.

    Now whether or not it is corrected on not, I don't know, they say it is. Will see what develops in regards to other people's problems mentioned previously. After stalling and waiting 20 minutes, it would start which doesn't sound like ignition wire to me.
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