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Subaru Impreza WRX

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Comments

  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    The WRX/STI pair can't be compared as far as $/hp r $/speed. But it does come at a price. It's not luxurious or anywhere near as comfy as the audis. Don't get me wrong, I love the WRX, but it's pure sports car/performance based.

    -mike
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    Has anyone heard from ateixeira/juice since the horrible events of Tuesday?
  • lark6lark6 Member Posts: 2,565
    He left his office at the World Bank as soon as he heard of the attack on the Pentagon.

    He and I convoyed down from Bucks County, PA to the SIA Pine Barrens Trail Run in NJ yesterday morning. We had the only two Foresters there (no WRXes or Legacies/Outbacks, hmm...) and hopefully represented the model well. He was planning on taking his wife and daughter to Sesame Place amusement park today and head back to MD this evening.

    Ed
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    I'm relieved to hear that - thanks.
  • WarpDriveWarpDrive Member Posts: 506
    If it does make it here (and it still might not given the state of the economy/recession which might slow down car sales), it will be imported in very small numbers. Can you say Markup? Let's say $30000 MSRP which seems reasonable in light of the relative pricing in the other countries...you can betcha there will be a few thousand tacked onto the end of that price. It's still a great deal for that kind of performance, but unless you really are dying for all that performance.....the WRX is a better deal...still great performance and lots of grins for the $. Not saying that STi is not to drool over...but how much do you want it?

    I've always said that I don't care about the looks, but enough is enough....for $30K USD, I would at least want the rally style design headlights instead of the bugeyes for starters. There's only so much abuse one can take from the Impreza styling-haters :) Seriously, they really should offer different style headlights as a running change for future models. And they should also fix those cheap visors while they are at it.

    BTW: I've put down a deposit on a wagon WRX. The order should come in just before the snow flies and my go-kart (Miata) gets put away for hibernation. YEEEHAA!
  • bruticusbruticus Member Posts: 229
    juice is pretty cool.

    DjB
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    Qualityguy wanted folks here to see the Subaru parts of the articles at the following links:

    http://www.autonewseurope.com/2001frankfurt/mazda910.htm

    and

    http://www.autonews.com/html/main/stories0827/fpasia827.htm

    (Sorry, qualityguy, I had to remove your posts - you cannot quote copyrighted material here, but links to interesting articles are always welcome.)

    Pat
    Host
    Sedans Message Board
  • jk111jk111 Member Posts: 125
    Yeah that is what I am afraid of. Even if the Sti comes to the states with a 29k price tag, dealers will rob us blind with 10-20% markup. SOA will probaby bring about 1000 sti's over. Which means they will be scarce. Just look at the S2000 syndrom, a 4000 dollar mark up will not suprise me at all. Sadly, people will pay that mark up to buy it.
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    I doubt that subaru could get more than MSRP for even the STI. It's a subaru, not a honda.

    -mike
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Thanks for asking. We're fine. Elmo is still at Sesame Place so I suppose the world is not going to end. :-)

    The Pine Barrens run on Sat was a hoot. I'll have photos uploaded later today.

    It was fun to do those water crossings, especially the 2nd time at a quicker pace.

    No WRXs, but an RS drove in the soft sand like a champ, and never got stuck. He kept up a pretty brisk pace, too, considering how narrow the trails were.

    Did get to ride in a turbocharged 2.5RS (on pavement only), and that thing was a monster. He was running 6 psi and with 4 large passengers it would pull in 4th gear as if you were in 2nd gear. His coilovers were dialed in a bit low and he was bottoming out, though.

    -juice
  • austinbluesaustinblues Member Posts: 1
    This may have been covered, I haven't figured out how to search
    old messages. My wife is going ballistic over brake dust getting on
    clothes. How can you get it out of clothes? And does it eventually
    stop getting over everything?

    Thanx,
    Jeffrey
  • mckaguemckague Member Posts: 24
    My two cents. 30,000 is optimistic. We have little info, so while we're at the business of speculating - if the 40% premium over base WRX found in Australia holds, based upon an MSRP of 24,000 to start for the WRX here in the US, that would put the STi at 33,600 - no destination, no options, no mark up. As far as the mark-up goes, true - this is a subaru, but enthusiasts have been waiting for years for the legendary WRX, let alone an STi version. The WRX, when first out, went for MSRP, which is new to the subaru world. It still does go for MSRP in some places about 6 months later. I think we could easily see a markup on the STi as the next new thing in subaru land. Will this car be built in limited numbers? That would, of course, only make it worse. Yes, "it's just a subaru," but have you checked out the price tag on a 3.0 H6 equipped Subaru station wagon? The one I took for a spin the other day was priced at around $33,000. They sell just fine at that price, too.

    Also, if I were Subura of America, given the performance legend status of the WRX STi, I'd bump up the base MSRP even higher. People will still buy plenty, given the paucity of competitors in the same range of performance and price, and would be a performance bargain even at close to $40,000. Don't think so? Compare stat for stat to the current crop of performance cars, cheap interior not withstanding. I'm not suggesting that Subaru will, or even should, sell them at near $40k, but mid thirties wouldn't surprise me one bit. I couldn't afford one even in the low 30's, so its all academic to me. One thing that does matter to me, though, and does excite me about the prospect of the STi is that if it is introduced, it just might take some pressure off of the prices on the base WRX. The guys who can pay top dollar would then go chase after the WRX STi, not the plain old, yesterday's news, WRX. Suits me just fine.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Here is the Pine Barrens album I was talking about. Check it out.

    Wax your wheels if they are painted. Brake dust won't stick to them, and you'll have less of a mess to begin with.

    The VDC was not the success the WRX has been, mostly because of the high price. That plus actual prices paid are more like $27-30k for the LL Bean and VDC.

    I think pricing an STi above $30k would be a mistake. Just think about what you could do with a regular WRX and $6 grand worth of mods.

    -juice
  • ebradwayebradway Member Posts: 1
    I drove a WRX a little while ago and decided it just may be time to get something with a little more room over my '86 Porsche 911. The WRX as a wagon was a very impressive ride - I didn't get the scary out-of-control feeling most cars give me. Granted, most cars can't handle as well as my 911.

    But my dilemma come in with the price vs. performance and reliability. The WRX costs almost $7K more than the RS. I can add alot of performance upgrades to the RS for that $7K - provided they don't void the warranty. I can also pick up a 6-month old RS and save another $3-4K.

    Are the standard performance upgrades in the WRX worth the extra money? Or am I better off with an RS and spending $5K on suspension, brakes, and engine mods? Especially in light of Subaru's new line of performance parts, I can't seem to justify dropping $24K on the WRX.

    BTW, I have less than $14K in my 911. Contrary to popular belief, they aren't terribly expensive and they happen to be extremely reliable - I have over 176K miles on it!
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Look at the previous RS. They are light and mods are abundant, plus it's cheaper. They only come in sedan or coupe, though.

    In wagons you could get an Outback Sport or even a TS wagon and then you'd have about $7k of mod funds. No RS, though, but if you're going to swap the wheels and suspension why pay more for things you will remove?

    I got to ride in a custom 6 psi turbo 2.5l on Saturday, and that thing was just scary-fast. It was still pulling in 4th gear and at ridiculous speeds.

    You could set up a TS wagon like that, and it could be nice and stealthy, too.

    -juice
  • barresa62barresa62 Member Posts: 1,379
    The turbo engine alone in the WRX makes it worth it. Sure, you could turbocharge the 2.5 in the RS but it wouldn't be covered under a factory warranty and you might have to deal w/the little bugs that sometimes accompany an aftermarket installation. The wagon isn't offered in a RS trim so you would have to go w/a TS which requires even more tire/wheel/suspension upgrades to get to the level of the WRX. Additionally, for $700 to $1000 you can modify the engine mgmt system and exhaust in the WRX to approach and/or equal the performance of the STI. Just something to think about.

    Stephen
    Happy WRX wagon owner w/6079 miles
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I've seen and ridden along in two turbocharged RSs. The biggest pro is the total lack of turbo lag. They really have a great low end and get going immediately.

    The worst part, on both, is the fit and finish of the installation. Not that they weren't effective, just that you had loose gauges, wires hanging, and basically things not bolted down like a stock setup would be. They look customized, it's easy to tell. One also gets constant check engine lights, to the owners just covered the warning light on the dash (it runs fine).

    Each had about $5k invested, so I imagine a perfectly finished job would run $7k or more.

    -juice
  • qualityguyqualityguy Member Posts: 101
    Guys, prices will be very accessable - look at the stock market today - just hope we will have the jobs... And, Pat, cross my heart, don't want to violate anybody's intellectual property rights - I mentioned where I got the info from; normally this covers it...
    P.S. And, again, I recommend Autonews.com to anybody - this is the industry news magazine - this is what I read - and your humble servant was the guy in charge of on-time delivery of all galvanized steel for VW plants in Mexico and Brazil, which is quite a bit. This is the most reliable source of info, it is not a highly opionated car magazine (can not stand Car & Driver, in particular, for being biased and not smart), but CNN of automotive world.
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    juice - glad to hear from you.

    qualityguy - I understand, and hope that i was helpful with the links I posted. You just can't make such extensive quotes from a copyrighted source, you need to post a link to the source instead. If you have any questions, drop me an email.

    Pat
    Host
    Sedans Message Board
  • wrx_alwrx_al Member Posts: 17
    If you read some of the posts over at the I-club you will see that a number of aftermarket turboed RS's have blown their engines! There is really no comparison between a fully engineered factory car (WRX or STI) and its partially engineered wannabe counterpart.
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    The VDC is failing badly. They are not selling anywhere near MSRP, heck even the WRX isn't selling @ MSRP. I highly doubt any dealer will get over MSRP on an STI.

    Also as far as aftermarket parts. You do realize that even Subaru aftermarket parts are *NOT* covered under the warranty!

    -mike
  • corkfishcorkfish Member Posts: 537
    Remember when everyone said there'd be huge markups on the WRX? Everyone thought dealers would want $30,000. Didn't happen. You can buy em for less than MSRP! There's a lot of speculation about pricing but nobody knows for sure. A lot may depend on exchange rates, the economy, and competition ( everyones heard the rumors about a $26,000 Mitsubishi EVO VII). Can they sell the car for the same price as the rear drive 280 horse Infiniti G35? There will be a lot of new and enhanced models coming out over the next two years. Competition may play a larger role in pricing than anything else.
  • jk111jk111 Member Posts: 125
    yeah a turbo RS will be VERY expensive to build. Lets see, a regular Greddy turbo will probably run 3k, that is before installation. Add intercooler, suspension, little things like momo wheel.. you are above 6 grand. Warranty is the thing you will have to worry the most, installing a turbo will void your warranty.. which can be trouble in the future. I say go with the wrx if you want performance. With 1-2k in mods, you can easily break into 13's.

    Sti comes with a 6 speed transmission, which is probably the biggest difference between a regular wrx and the sti. That plus the extra power is will worth the extra 5 grand or so. Not to mention better suspension, seats, differential...
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    The STI doesn't get the variable diffy from the 22b IIRC.

    If you tweak your WRX you will also void your warrnty, so warranty isn't really an issue.

    For about the price of a stock WRX, you can have a car that will outperform it: 2001 RS coupe ($16K or less) + Turbo ($7K) + suspension ($1-2K)

    -mike
  • kostamojen2kostamojen2 Member Posts: 284
    I'd get a WRX myself. The RS strains at the high end and just doesnt have even remotely the same amount of kick to it.

    But, for $7k, you could get a Coilover suspension, front rear strut bars, front rear sway bars with bushings all around, 17" rims with performance tires, 4-pot brakes w/ larger discs, a nice intake and exhaust, and stick a unichip in there and have a sweet handling torquey car...
  • barresa62barresa62 Member Posts: 1,379
    The malfunctioning part would have to be proven by Subaru to have been a result of an aftermarket part to actually void the warranty. There is actually a legal ruling being circulated throughout the i-club that explains it more in detail. It's best to say you run a strong risk of having your warranty voided with the installation of certain aftermarket parts.

    Stephen
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    What kind of top end does the 2.5RS strain at? At least what kind of top end does it strain at on US streets?

    -mike
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    The Phase II went to a SOHC design (99 and later Forester & Impreza, 2000 and later Legacy), and its sweet spot is far lower in the rev range than the Phase I DOHC. Subaru even lowered the red line.

    The 2.0l is a DOHC design and likes to rev.

    -juice
  • thecatthecat Member Posts: 535
    I'm gettin' a little PO'd. I've searched everywhere I can think of to find some small mudflaps for the WRX (similar to those on the Forester) and they don't exist. Splash Guards, that look like a waste of money (mho) are available .. but no flaps. Has anybody tried to mod the RS flaps to make them fit the WRX? How hard could that be? With winter approaching here in the N.E., I'd feel much better having some flaps installed before road salt begins to remove paint. Any ideas out there ?????
    - hutch
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    You need our buddy Pat and a couple of hours with his heat gun. He can make anything fit. :-)

    You can get universal flaps from an auto supplier like Pep Boys. I've seen some rather huge ones on an RS that runs RallyCross regularly.

    -juice
  • kroliphkroliph Member Posts: 75
    I still think that Subaru might keep the pricing of the new STi just under $30,000. As was mentioned before, there is going to be allot of competition out there. The EVO VII and the new Nissan Z car may well be here by the time the STi arrives. I am not going to pay more than 30k for this car. I'm not saying it is not an awesome performance buy for the money. It is just that you have to draw the line somewhere. I'm sure I could have allot of fun in a Sentra SE-R Spec-V and do something else with the extra 12k. My philosophy has not been performance at any price, rather most reliable and best performance for the money. Heck, I've waited this long for the STi. I'm sure I can wait a while after it arrives to get a fair deal on one.
  • wrangellboywrangellboy Member Posts: 3
    I have my doubts as to whether to STi will be coming to America in the near future, or ever for that matter. Subaru had to to considerable work to the WRX to make it meet US emissions standards, including but not limited to lowering the HP produced by the engine. This tells me that a 270 HP STi version probably isn't going to meet stringent emissions controls, meaning lots of extra taxes applied to the cost on top of the $5k premium you get to pay for the STi version... Technical matters not withstanding, SOA has repeatedly and consistently said since day one of the WRX in the US that they will *NOT* be bringing an STi model here.
  • pfifferpfiffer Member Posts: 47
    Like all other things, market forces will determine if the STi comes to North American and at what price it will be sold. Only SOA has the real goods on how quickly WRX's are selling and at what is being paid for them. With that information, SOA can make an informed business decision about importing the STi. Even if the cost is considerable to certify the STi, SOA may feel they can recoup the cost by pricing the STi accordingly - and - there just may be enough willing buyers at a high enough price so that SOA's business decision is a sound one.

    Ed
  • corkfishcorkfish Member Posts: 537
    The WRX not only meets US emmssions requirements, it exceeds them ( it's an LEV or low emissions vehicle ). Meaning there is plenty of room to add horsepower and still meet meet emission standards. Hey, if a 320 horsepower Mustang or a 450 horsepower Viper ( to name just two) can meet emission standards, I think that Subaru can probably do it with a 275 horsepower 4 cylinder STI. This car is definitely on it's way, it's just a question of when.
  • jk111jk111 Member Posts: 125
    Once you boost that turbo up and remove one cat. You will probably not meet any carb standards.. We need 3 cats to meet LEV..
    With enough money, you can make anything go fast. It will be painful to constantly maintain the turboed RS just because it is not meant to be a turboed engine. Not to mention extra wear and tear. Without warranty, anything that blows up will be coming out of your pocket. So I think it might be "cheaper" initially, but you will end up paying more money at the end.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    It doesn't have to meet the LEV standard, though. That's far tougher than the basic emissions standards.

    -juice
  • silver_bulletsilver_bullet Member Posts: 1,339
    With three cats and the TGVs, I'd guess that the WRX engine is probably just squeaking by the federal LEV standards. It seems logical to expect that an even more highly tuned turbo 2 liter is going to have problems meeting regs. The I-Club forums are full of people with CEL problems, many of which are likely due to borderline emissions performance or the additional mods many are making to these cars.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Making more power makes it harder. Dropping the optional LEV designation makes it easier. I'm sure it can be done.

    -juice
  • thecatthecat Member Posts: 535
    I've been keeping records since I purchased my WRX in March. Now, some 7k miles later I am pleased to report that my average MPG is 24.166. I had a 1 tank high of 28 early on back in the days of no rev's above 4k. Also, there was that 1 tank which yielded only 18 shortly after the 4k limit was no longer required and I was (ahem) learning about the cars capabilities. (BIG SMILE)

    Now having said all that, I live in the country and don't do much "city" driving .. but 24 is a darn good number for a vehicle with the kind of performance of the WRX.

    - Hutch
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    My Forester gets 25. There.

    I had to say something to make myself feel better! ;-)

    -juice
  • thecatthecat Member Posts: 535
    Yeah .. you're younger and have more hair too.

    Hutch
  • sarnysarny Member Posts: 17
    I am looking into getting a wrx sedan and I am wondering what people in the Los Angeles area are paying for them.
  • teeveeboyteeveeboy Member Posts: 6
    I'm considering the WRX sedan - very impressed by performance numbers. I have a '99 Passat 1.8T. Haven't driven the WRX yet, so I was wondering what to expect. For anyone who's driven both, what will I be giving up between the Passat and WRX, and what will I be gaining?
  • WarpDriveWarpDrive Member Posts: 506
    Passat vs WRX

    - Size: WRX is smaller and tighter all around
    - Handling: WRX feels stiffer and less body roll
    - Power: Passat feels stronger at low RPM's, WRX feels a bit anemic under 3000 rpm. At 6000 rpm, Passat starts running out of steam, WRX is pulling strong. I always find that the WRX never feels as fast as the numbers would suggest, but if you compare yourself to other cars around you, you find yourself moving pretty fast with only moderate effort.
    - Steering: WRX is heavier feeling, Passat is very light
    - Shifter: WRX is a bit more precise
    - Brakes: no as grabby as the Passat, a bit smoother
    - Tires: WRX's are better but no by much
    - Amenities: inside looks cheaper than a Passat, the Passat has higher level of luxury. No sunroof on the WRX.

    So in moving from a Passat, you are giving up some of the comfy luxury, but you get a car that comes alive in a big way if you drive it hard.
  • mrsamplemrsample Member Posts: 6
    Ive test driven the V6 with 4 Motion a few months back. It enjoyed it as my general goal was to check out sporting like cars that had a back seat. I didn't have the opportunity to take it on any significant turns as with the WRX But overall that the suspension was comparatively mushy to the WRX. Even though it was a V6 with the "click" tranny it felt and drove heavier and was not as quick. To generalize the Passat was ore of a family luxury model. The interior of the Passat was nothing short of beautiful with its fit and finish as compared to the WRX or any other car that I have driven. Maxima, V6 Accord, GT-S Celica, and the RSX. Over a process of time I realized my priorites in what I wanted. Handling and feel of road are far superior in WRX than all those. The Passat is much roomier also in comparo. So I could imaghine that if a person had some large adults that wanted to dirve for a long haul they would be bettter off with their Passat. But give me WRX any day this car is something far beyond a comfy luxo cruiser. the auto tranny is an issue for me too. The WRX is based on a rally car. The Passat is a nice family transportation with a hint of elegance. So is it hand me the Grey poupon? with the Passat? or is it wow why cant I stop grining as i drive?wiht the WRX?
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    For the most part you give up space and quiet for performance and handling.

    Imagine a chipped Passat with stiffer springs and shocks, bigger no-sway bars, and a wheel and tire package, minues some space, and you get the idea.

    AWD also "feels" very different than FWD.

    -juice
  • teeveeboyteeveeboy Member Posts: 6
    Thanks for the answers... One more question though - any squeaks and rattles in the WRX when it's new or a few months old? My Passat is almost three years old, and I'm starting to notice some. How do you expect the WRX to be in this category long-term?
  • silver_bulletsilver_bullet Member Posts: 1,339
    Go to the forums at www.i-club.com and get an eyefull of WRX related gripes, including many complaints about rattles, clunks, etc. This is a very polarizing car - owners seem to either love it for what it is, and forgive all its shortcomings, or damn it for its faults and limitations. You'll have to decide if it fits your bill.
  • sarnysarny Member Posts: 17
    Does anyone have an opinion on the upgraded stero options. Is it worth the extra $470 for the speakers and amp? Also, is that an additional four speakers or do they replace the six that already come with the car standard?
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Passat likely takes the edge in the quality of its interior trimmings, but I'd gamble on the WRX for long-term reliability.

    -juice
This discussion has been closed.

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