Subaru Impreza WRX

ramon · February 2001

the rear wing was used on those WRXs, EVOs, Audi TTs, 911s, Skylines etc to keep the rear end down as they go on insane speeds where no N/A Impreza can go. Our current gent of porker Imprezas are 2800lb ish. So a big wing at the back is purely cosmetics.
I've done some research on Ej20 engine swaps. It is definitely not $4000 with labor! I kid you not! Until we see the new WRXs crashing all over and manage to snag one the prices even for the 218hp turbo engine is about $5-6000 and that's without the wiring harness, upgraded transmissions. When you go to the STi models, it's close to 10Gs. Alot of mulah. That is why alot of owners end up with aftermarket turbos on their 2.5 or 2.2l engines. Either way speed cost money. How fast do you want to go? =(

kostamojen2 · February 2001

Posted in the other WRX forum, ill post it here too... Heres some pics of the WRX sedan in Yellow:

and

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WarpDrive · February 2001

So anyway, I've been eyeing this Impreza phenomenon for years and I AM EXCITED ABOUT THE WRX! Surely the ideal enthusiast car!

I'll say it again: I don't care what the car looks when the car drives nice enough. And this WRX is the perfect example....I think it's actually nice that the styling is controversial because this will separate the fashion crowd from the enthusiast....I mean...people will be surely buying this car for the driving experience and not the looks.

My summer car is a Miata and parking a silver WRX beside it would cover any conceivable driving situation. Summer topless fun in a lightweight tossable car, and a serious go fast all-weather tool in the WRX. Who could ask for more? I'm surprised the WRX is so heavy, but at least initial reviews seem to show that it is a eager handler.

So I'm hoping that supply will not lag behind demand as I won't be buying till the fall or early next year.

silver_bullet · February 2001

If those photos are accurate - allow me to say "yuck"! Pale yellow doesn't do anything for me. Now, if they had chosen a shade more along the lines of Ferrari Fly Yellow, well, that might make me think twice, but I'll keep my order for a silver sedan. BTW my dealer confirmed that my order was "accepted" by SOA, and said he might have some more information after the middle of the month. Too early for a confirmed delivery date or VIN assignment. Who wants to bet that WRXs are already sitting on the ground here in the U.S., but are being held solely to allow existing stocks of 2.5RS's to sell out?

r34 · February 2001

Forgive me or not. I think the rear of the WRX is a mixture of Acura CL and some Korean cars.

Anyway, I looked at WRX in the Suby site. It seems that only the WRX wagon has foldable rear seats. The sedan has center pass-thru instead. Can anyone confirm that ?

ramon · February 2001

older gen sedan imprezas doesn't even have pass thru seats. sad huh?
i like the pale yellow. remidns me of hte previous gen M3 yellows. A brighter yellow would attract negative vibes like cops, racerboys, vandalisms, thieves.... Anyhow I still like a white WRX please. Yes...white WRX with white Volks TE37 rims.... yummy.

larrygill1 · February 2001

I just order a WRX sedan. I found a dealer in Northern VA. Paul Brothers Subaru in Herndon that is selling them under MSRP. I work with a guy with no games , show me cost and he profit and I wish all sale persons were like Ben. I just wish they made it in a two door. Does anyone heard if down the road they will make a two door?

Are any Banks around doing better than Subaru's 6.9% . I dont have a credit union, but I have great credit and good cash to put down.
Larry G

kostamojen2 · February 2001

Silver bullet: Those photos were taken in Vancover, that WRX is fresh off the boat bound for the first shipment to dealers

That pale yellow reminds me of our 66 Mustang :P

r34: Yes, only center pass-throughs in the Sedans.

wrxanswers · February 2001

I talked to my Subaru Rep today. I have a WRX allocated to me. It will be here in about 3 weeks. I don't yet know what equipment it will have. I do know it will be black. The down fall is it is an AUTOMATIC, bummer. Can't wait to see it, and drive it.

edwardsa1 · February 2001

Why would you accept an automatic if you want a stick?

dianne4toyota · February 2001

I checked the www.irvinesubaru.com website and there's a popup window there when you go onto their front page, and it says they were allocated 62 WRX'es, and 10 WRX automatics too. This car must be something special! I'm going to read up on it ... looks interesting... little screamer!

WarpDrive · February 2001

It sure is!!!

Two words: 5.7 seconds. That's enough to make me want to run down and hug my local Subaru rep.

Neutral handling, AWD, rally heritage, blistering performance, affordable price. That's why I am pulling out my hairs trying to figure out how I can fit this third car into our household budget.

ottos · February 2001

I ordered my silver 5 speed sedan yesterday. Now I need to buy a Valentine one radar detector.

BTW, I ordered mine from Ann Arbor Subaru in Michigan, because they seem worth buying from. My salesman was bringing out all his pricing information and options list. It was as comprehensive as www.new-impreza.com. He says he won't charge any extra fees, so I will only pay the price we agree on, tax, title, and license. He also was telling me about other buyers, a few of whom are SCCA members. I think this hints that he is well-known. He had deposits on 15 cars, so other people must like him too. He expects mine in mid or late April.

wrxanswers · February 2001

If you are ordering the WRX for speed, 5 speed is the only way to go. If you are ordering the car for an everyday driver, think about how often you are going to shift gears. Do you have a lot of stops where you live? If you do think about buying an automatic. If you don't care to shift gears often, the 5 speed is the way to go. Really think about what your are going to buy. even though the price is right for what you are getting, it is still a lot of money to spend on something that will only depreciate. When you buy any car make sure it is what you REALLY want but also make sure it will fit all your driving needs.

kostamojen2 · February 2001

Since I cant drive stick yet, I really like the fact they stuck the VTD into the Auto... actually gives me a reason to say "hey, I dont need to learn after all!".
But if Subauru really wanted to catch my attention, they should stick one of those "infinite Gear" automatics into the WRX like the Audi is putting into their new 220hp A4's... Theyre actually faster than stick shifts of that same car

beanboy · February 2001

But not in any real-world (or racing) situations. When they get the tranny to sense a decreasing radius uphill turn and have it in the proper gear, come talk to me. Besides, what's the fun of it when you aren't racing to have the car shift for you?

-B

ottos · February 2001

My sister's Civic HX, which has an infinitely variable transmission, can be set in a mode which causes the transmission to always be in the proper gear (since there are a whole bunch to choose from). The engine's speed is maintained either at its peak torque or peak power. So as you go up the hill and slow down for this turn, the tranny continuously downshifts to maintain the engine at around 4000 rpm. Then when you accelerate out, the tranny stays in that ratio until the engine reaches its peak power (6000rpm), then it resumes adjusting the ratio (upshifting) to maintain 6000 rpm.

It is pretty fast. When you ask for maximum acceleration, the engine speed goes to and remains at the peak power point, as opposed to manuals.

ramon · February 2001

there's no better feeling when driving down a canyon while accelerating and feel the nice shnick shnick shift of a manual.

beanboy · February 2001

I know CVTs are coming, but with the push for so many slushomatics with 'paddles' on so-called performance cars, I fear lazy Amercians are going to push out the manual faster than a good replacement can be found. Even when you can lap any race track in the world at a faster rate in any mainstream car with a CVT versus manual, there's the whole driver's enjoyment factor.

I doubt there is anybody out there that loves the sound of a car engine at a constant screaming RPM versus accelerating through the gears. What is the video game industry gonna do?!

-B

beanboy · February 2001

I'm suprised the auto in the Impreza isn't a 5 speed. With all of this upscaling going on a subaru, you would have thunk they would stuck one in the WRX and VDC/LLBean.

I'm also not happy with the weight gain the Impreza is faced with. It is happening with all cars, but 3100 pounds for a compact wagon?

-Beanboy

outbackguru · February 2001

I love a good manual tranny, but I'm also lazy sometimes. I wish Subaru would come out with a tiptronic so I could decide what mood I'm in and select how to shift. Anybody driven a one of these manual/automatic hybrid things? do they work?

ottos · February 2001

I don't like them because they are still autos, with torque converter (inefficient), the extra weight, etc.

As for CVTs vs. manuals, I want whichever is faster overall, but is still reliable. For now, manuals are probably faster and more reliable. But if they come out with a CVT that can handle a tire-spinning launch, last the life of the car, and is comparably priced, then I'll approve of it. And what about the driver's enjoyment factor? The joy of heel-and-toeing will be replaced by the joy of winning. I'm ok with that.

I hope the extra weight went to crash protection. Otherwise, I don't like it either.

WarpDrive · February 2001

And it works fairly well, a computer controls the clutch. All you have to do is select a gear by pusing a lever or pressing a button. This is a true manual and the computer matches revs for you. However, you will still lose about a second 0-60 because it can't do a tire-spinning launch. This is the only transmission I would consider for a sports car besides a true manual.

As Ottos said....the Tiptronic or other manu-automatics are too much of a compromise in different ways. Namely performance, cost, weight and lack of fun. I would not give up the thrill of rowing the gears unless it was cheaper, faster AND more reliable. Even then I *want* the ability to select my own gear always. Nothing beats the involvement of a true manual when you just want to have fun.

kostamojen2 · February 2001

Im getting tired of all this anti-automatic talk... Shifting is fun, but its complicated for alot of people. And there are people out there like me, who dont know how to drive stick but like performance (sorry, my parents didnt have a stick for me to learn on! Geez) and having a stick just gives you one more thing you can screw up when utilitizing this performance...

Yes, I know stickshifts have been around since the begining, but considering the bigger picture, why havent they become non existant yet? Plus, there are alot of "un-coordinated" people in the world, and only a small percentage of people care about Real car performance... Just turning the wheel and utilizing the gas pedal is hard enough for them, let alone coordinating the Stick and the Clutch... (My dad drives absoulutely horrible, I cant immagine how bad WITH a sticksift! ARG)

Maybe I just need to figure out how to stickshift well to apreciate it... (I got to try it the other day, and the Clutch totally confounded me... I dont mind the shifting though)

But please, dont insult me because Im not the same type of entusiast as you. Thank you.

If I had the choice between an Auto thats just as fast as a Stick, I would take it any day (A faster auto, even better) but since this is practically non-existant in the car world, im almost "required" to know how to drive a stick... I dont like not having the freedom of that choice.

Sporin · February 2001

Don't confuse the so-called Tiptronic or Manu-matic trannies with the true, electonic-clutch manuals of the MR-S and the Ferraris.

The first ones are jsut automatics with a torque converter that allow you to manually choose and (sometimes) hold gears. This is literaly no different then if you switch between D,3, 2, 1 on any other automatic car.

The second are true manuls that operate the clutch electronically for you. This can be done faster an dmore ecfficienty then your own leg can do it, even matching revs on downshifts.

Big difference.

There are only 2 true automatic-manuls on the market (the Ferrari & The MR-S) and only the Ferrari is available in the US.

Personally, I don't know why anyone would buy a "performance car" with an automatic tranny, but it's your money.

WarpDrive · February 2001

>>>
"Maybe I just need to figure out how to stickshift well to apreciate it... (I got to try it the other day, and the Clutch totally confounded me... I dont mind the shifting though)"
>>>>>
Before you pass on the stickshift, you really have to give it a chance. Once you get used to it (and it *does* take practice), it becomes completely intuitive that I don't even think about shifting, I just do it. I assume that you post to this forum because you *are* a true car ethusiast who loves driving. As a person who loves driving, *I* can't imagine driving my sports car with a automatic because the stick adds so much more to the enjoyment of my car. Add to the fact that a stickshift has better few economy, accelerates faster, cheaper to buy and there is no reason that I would consider an automatic. And did I mention that it's more fun?? *THAT* will always be the reason I prefer a true manual. At this point, I would still buy a manual even if the automatic was faster. Until they make an auto that is faster AND more economical to run AND cheaper to buy, then a manual is still my preferred choice. Since you are in the WRX forum, I assume that you do care about performance and you like the WRX's blistering 0-60 5.7 seconds capability. If you get a automatic, you could lose up to a second of that time. Suddenly 0-60 6.7 seconds in a $24000 car doesn't seem like the performance car bargain of the decade anymore (although it's still great)

WarpDrive · February 2001

Don't infer that I expect all driving enthusiasts to drive a manual...I was just saying that MANY driving ethusiasts do drive a manual for the reasons I stated...you may not be one of them.

I learned a manual in a brand new car that I bought off the lot. After the initial one month frustration in learning and practicing, I've never looked back.

ramon · February 2001

anyone can be a car enthusiast. Doesn't matter what type of tranny you drive on. But you might be missing out one of the best experience of driving a car while you still can.
Yes it's a pain to learn. Where I came from - Malaysia, we have to learn on manuals. And the cars we learned on dates back to the 70s. =( and it is much much harder to learn on compared to today's manual cars. I've stalled 6 times in a traffic light! Beat that! I got honked at, stared, laughed....bad feeling ever! But don't give up. Like Sporin said. Once you know it, it's like riding a bike. Besides, you get to save the extra charges for an auto. hehehe.... however there are times I wish I have an auto on my Impreza. >:(

sshin · February 2001

For me, the tranny is one of the first things I look at when considering a car. My 4-cyl Camry is a stick, and I couldn't imagine driving without it. Not only for performance reasons, but also because it feels like you're "connected" to the drivetrain, or better said, a more controlled feeling that adds a couple of dimensions to the overall driving experience.

The automatic rules here in the states. I mean, how many Benz's do you see with a stick here in the US market? In Germany, you get your license at 18, and you are REQUIRED to learn a stick, if not, you better have a good reason.

Also, it really irritates me when great cars are deprived of a true manual (think Honda Accord V6, Acura CL Type S, Mercedes C320 are just a FEW examples).

I'm very excited that Subaru is one of the better car companies that is readily offering a stickshift in the WRX and pretty much their entire model line for that matter. I only wish that the Legacy Sedan and Outback Wagon could have the new H6 with a true manual, now that would be something. Does the Japanese market offer this? Does anyone know if this is coming stateside (H6+manual)?

ateixeira · February 2001

The H6 will make it to the Outback Sedan before any new trannies are offered. Expect that for 2002.

I too prefer manuals. However, autos have their place:

* very heavy traffic
* towing
* off roading
* physically impaired

Now, now, that last one opens this up for some jokes, but let's keep it clean.

-juice

ramon · February 2001

that it's quite sexy while u're driving and your gf rows the stick for you. ;-) Git your head out of the gutter!!!

kens · February 2001

Steve,

I doubt a manual tranny will be offered with the H6 for some time. In Japan, it too is only offered with the auto. I would expect to see a manual tranny there before it shows up in the US.

Ken

rsholland · February 2001

a Subaru rep (from Japan) at the Washington DC Auto Show. He said the current manual transmissions are too long for the H-6. He indicated that they are working on a new manual, but declined to say as to if or when it would appear on the H-6.

Bob

beanboy · February 2001

I'm just the bitter owner of www.standardshift.com, part of my senior project that is wasting away because I spend time posting here instead of working on it. Hence, I have very strong feelings when it comes to automatics as the tranny of choice in the US.

Hmm, should start a PSA campaign on driving manuals... Get VW to fund it, tehe. "Friends don't let friends drive automatics." "Hail to the clutch baby!" and such.

As for WRX comments. I love the fact it can tow 2000 pounds. Not that I would, but it could. Also makes me realize how silly US tow laws are when a performance turbo car with manual can tow the same as a low-stress 3800 series equipped GM car with an automatic.

-B

kostamojen2 · February 2001

Ya, the #1 reason I want to know manual is so I dont have to pay that damned $500-$1000 extra!!! ARG!

I wish clutchless manuals were availible on cars we can actually get

I would definatly get one! (not the Sportshift/Auto-manuals, like you said)

WarpDrive · February 2001

The clutchless manual (F1) shifter in a Ferrari is something like a $10000 option. The sequential transmission in the Toyota MR2-S would probably be a $1500 option (guessing here since it's more expensive than a regular automatic in Europe). $1000.00 of the automatic buys you a LOT of driver's ed courses for learning manual.

Of all the cars that you can buy with an automatic, the Subaru is probably not a good choice. A four speed automatic does not suit a laggy (by most reports) turbo like the one in a WRX. In moderate driving, by the time the turbo is generating boost, the automatic will probably upshift too early, and the car will feel anemic at most speeds. Driving a autmatic with a laggy turbo like the Saab Turbo 9000 I drove a few years back was torture. Between the automatic shifting at the wrong time and the on/off turbo effect, it was certainly a jerky ride

IMO Automatics only mate well with cars that have strong flat torque curves since the car is not as sensitive as to which gear the automatic selects.

ateixeira · February 2001

As long as they're working on a new manual tranny, give us 6 cogs!

BeanBoy: I'm also a fan of manuals, and all three of our vehicles have them.

However, turbos aren't well suited for towing, and automatics tend to be better than manuals, which require slipping the clutch a lot to get started. An automatic OBS would be better to haul a pair of jet skis than a 5 speed WRX.

-juice

hersbird · February 2001

The automatic seems like a good value compared to other cars. An extra $1000 is pretty common and you get the superior AWD system with it as well. The automatic is going to be superior in really snotty weather with smoother power and the better AWD. Hell just a 3 speed automatic on the neon costs an extra $600 so the subie's 4 speed with VDC is a pretty good deal. My neon was the 5-speed and plenty fun but also a pain 75% of the time, a 3 speed auto on the neon is just not an option it really makes it a dog. Well see how the subie does with an automatic. It's goal should be to beat a 97 Caddy STS (also automatic) in the 1/4 mile (motor trend got a 14.7 sec ET)

j_coleman · February 2001

That's a hell of an accomplishment to beat a Caddy... Such high aspirations.

ateixeira · February 2001

And that's an important distinction. Variable Torque Distribution splits power to each axle, with a usable rear bias.

VDC is Vehicle Dynamics Control, Subaru's stability control system, which is N/A on the WRX.

Still, a grand for the auto and VTD is a fair price, if you want an auto anyway.

That Caddy has 300hp, so don't just blow it off like that. It's a completely different car, though.

I think the WRX should aspire to beat cars like the Toyota Celica GT-S, Acura Integra Type R, Prelude SH, and other hot imports. Maybe throw in the S4 while you're at it.

-juice

sshin · February 2001

This brings up a good point in my opinion. Which automobiles do you guys think will compete with the new WRX sedan? On the one hand, given its low price, the WRX might compete with these imports:

2002 Toyota Celica GTS (180hp)
2002 Acura RSX 'Integra' (~200hp)
2002 Volkswagon GTI (174hp)

Despite the fact that these are coupes, I think the subcompact rating of the WRX puts it in direct competition with these established racers.

However, Subaru is marketing the WRX sedan and wagon against costlier Audi and BMW models. Do you guys think this is a good idea? From their official site:

2002 BMW 325xi (184hp)
2002 Audi A4 1.8T Quattro (170hp)

Interestingly, if 0-60 times hold true, the WRX should be faster than the 330xi and A4 2.8 (or upcoming 3.0).

So which cars compete with the WRX? I personally think the import racers, simply because of the low price point and the fact that Subaru is not known as a "near-luxury" or "luxury" brand as Audi and BMW are...

silver_bullet · February 2001

I don't think the WRX competes with much of anything in its price range. It is a modestly equipped, finished and priced Asian import with performance that will blow away much more expensive German AWD sedans like the 330xi and A4 2.8 quattro. Those racerboy sport coupes you mention don't have the sophisticated WRX drivetrain or power, and can't offer four-door sedan or small wagon versatility. It is going to be interesting to see where the car mags place the WRX when they do their inevitable comparison tests

ramon · February 2001

the WRX is in a class of itself in terms of price and performance. At least in North America.

In other parts of the world, it competes with the Mitsu Lancer EVO series which is also a turboecharged AWD sedan.

ateixeira · February 2001

Agreed. Lancer Evo is the nearest competitor, and Mitsu may bring that hear soon. The name will come, at least.

Here, though, I think it will appeal to import buyers would would otherwise buy very high-end sport compact cars. High end Celicas, Integra GS-R/Type R and RSX, Civic Si, Prelude SH, Sentra SE-R, Protoge MPS, Focus SVT (it's euro flavored, if not an import).

Folks that have Eclipse GSXs and are looking to buy new, but feel let down by Mitsubishi's softer, V6 Eclipse. Plus old 323 GTX owners, 3000GT VR-4 owners, maybe?

On the other end, BMW owners? Probably not. But Audi owners, maybe. A4 1.8T and 2.8 shoppers for sure.

BMW and Mercedes wagons may seem similar, but my guess is they'll have different demographics on the buyers. So will the new Jaguar X type wagon (with AWD).

Heck, I bet the wagon will be cross-shopped with a LOT of stuff, like the PT Cruiser, Toyota Matrix, many small SUVs, etc.

Subaru just has to convince people to test drive the WRX. That's all it would take.

-juice

ramon · February 2001

them domestics? Say the Grand Prix GTP? Actually that's all I know about Domestic so called performance sedans. hehehehe.... PT Loser don't count ok. Just because it has a hemi looking bonnet does not mean it is pounding out Hemi size mucho hp. hahahaha

ateixeira · February 2001

Grand Prix is a big, big car. More of a GT than a sporty small car.

People buy PT Cruisers for the look, even if they don't perform. A Chrysler mechanic friend says there is no room to work under the hood (I checked at the auto show and would agree), so mods would be limited to ricing it out.

From Ford, the Focus would be closest. GM? I dunno, Pontiac Vibe GT? At least vs. the WRX wagon. DCX will have the Dodge version of the PT with AWD, so that would compete when it comes out.

-juice

samsvr6 · February 2001

Hi Ramon,
I am from Malaysia too. I have been monitoring this WRX thread for a while but refrained from posting until you revealed that you are from M'sia. Yeah, I remember 10 years ago when I got my driver license from JPJ driving those damn stick-shift 70s Datsun. Nowadays, they use the Perodua Kancil for testing. Luckily, I passed the first time without "kopi" money. I still remember people having a hard time launching a stationary car from an 20 degree incline when taking the test. They either stalled it or rev it too much without letting the clutch go which results in the car rolling backwards.
All I am saying is learning a manual can be frustrating at first but once you got it, it is all intuitive.
By the way I am driving a 98 GTI VR6, manual of course. I like the WRX so much that I have already convinced my wife to like it. But the problem is getting rid of my beloved VR6. Don't get me wrong, it is a powerful and nimble car. 0 to 60 in 6.7sec. But I need AWD because I live in Michigan. Any one interested in buying? Color is Ginster Yellow, leather seats, sunroof, pwr everything, aluminum shift knob,white faced gauges and has 27k miles.
Sam

sshin · February 2001

I like silver bullet's term "category buster", which is why I'm so interested in the WRX. I still can't believe the MSRP, honestly, I think they could have charged more and still caused a big stir.

You guys have to agree that this puppy is going to take sales away from those considering the Celica/Integra, especially since the performance advantage of awd and turbo makes the WRX stand out. Maybe the awd Celica will make a return? And don't forget about the 2003 Nissan Z. I'm willing to wait a year and check out the specs, if it's well under $30K and offers rwd, V6 w/260hp, it may be worth a look (only a 2 seater though). But by that time, I think the WRX will have made a huge impact on the sports car performance world, because Subaru really has set a new standard here.

ramon · February 2001

khabar baik.
Kewl! Oh I remembered those old crappy Datsun. I think I took the test twice cus I hit a pole while doing a reverse parking. =( No "kopi money" either. The driving test in Canada is a joke. But I ain't complaining! hahahaha....
Well how long have you left Malaysia? I've been gone for quite some time. I am planning to go back for a visit. I wonder how KL's like now. No way in heck would I dare to drive there. See you around!

mitsugst · February 2001

I rode in a WRX (pre-production) yesterday along with a couple other prospective buyers. I was really impressed with the interior, trunk, ride, acceleration, engine performance, build quality (except for the broken glove compartment handle), overall feeling. The only type of turbo lag I noticed was that the power went into its peak above 4000 RPM, although no notoceable jump in power (very smooth) along the RPM band. I didn't notice a lag from leaving stand still either. So, yes there's a turbo lag, but only the good kind, the kind that could be turned around and viewed as a turbo boost over the normal driving range. It felt as if the turbo was doing a perfect job of transitioning on from low RPM's. Amazing engine, in my view.
As for the performance on the rode. It reminded me of the '97 porsche 911 I once drove. Lots of power, with lots of control and stability, except that we had four people in good comfort (not 2good+2bad). It also rode over bumps, expansion joints, and other road irregularities very well.
As for whether or not I was able to justify the look of the car for what it had to offer, I just couldn't. The up close and personal look at the car still didn't do anything for me. It just has no look to back what it has to offer. I don't believe anyone is going to view this car as a performance car (which is what it is), it is just to plain and boring looking... not for at least 4 years. It took 3-4 years for people to notice my car as a performance car (Eclipse Turbo), after I killed mustang GTs, camaros Z28s, integras and every other performance car under $25000 (sure, some of the drivers never knew what hit them and wheren't perpared). Sure my car is only 0-60 in 6.4sec, not an amazingly fast 5.5sec, but it had some looks going for it. I've talked to people with no knowledge of cars, some knowledge of cars, knowlegde of cars and no knowlegde of WRX, and with knowledge of all cars and WRX, and they just can't phathom viewing a low-cost dull-looking car as a performance car.
I am obviously having a difficult time with the looks issue, as I am sure many others are. But at this point it's a rather not have. I'd rather wait for something better to come out: Integra (RSX), nissan z(2003), or mazda rx-8 (with four doors). If only the eclipse had continued the performance heritage rather than the good looks heritage (mitsu sucks, and where's that Lancer!I've lost all pride for you mitsu).
Either I'll wait, or I'll just settle for a used 2 year old BMW 328(with the new body) for around $28000.

Subaru Impreza WRX

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