Subaru Impreza WRX

ramiller1 · December 2001

I actually l-o-v-e the styling on our silver WRX wagon, especially the rear 3/4 view, looking from the side and slightly above the vehicle. And the sedan grows on me all the time. You have to view the sedan from almost street level to really appreciate it. To look its best, tho, I think the sedan needs the rear wing to counterbalance the front hood scoop. My wife is an artist and she likes the styling too.

ateixeira · December 2001

I agree the wagon looks great from that angle.

Motor Trend's award is the most valuable from a marketing stand point but the least valid from a technical stand point.

-juice

boomn29 · December 2001

The wagon (any wagon) looks stupid to me.
The sedan I thought was fugly the first couple months I seen it. But those performance numbers... It starts to grow on you!

rex_ruthor · December 2001

the more time, effort, and money you spend on style and design, the more cost it adds to the car. Could they sell a 40K WRX? The Audi A-series cars look alright (not as good as BMW or Mercedes), but cost less than those. If the Audi stylists were hired to work on the Subaru design, the WRX would probably cost another 10K. Id say its pretty good for what you pay.

rsholland · December 2001

VW and Chrysler products are among the best looking on this planet, and they are not premium priced.

I've been a design professional for 30 years. I know good (excellent!) doesn't have to be expensive. What it takes is courage and conviction from those calling the shots.

Bob

ateixeira · December 2001

Actually, VWs are. Golfs and Jettas really push the price limits for compact cars, easily hitting the upper $20s.

But yes, inexpensive cars can be stylish and attractive. I like the sporty back on the wagons, though. The Protoge5 and Matrix are other handsome examples.

-juice

hunter001 · December 2001

I disagree too, about good styling costing much more....hell, the Bottom-of-the-food-chain Daewoos are starting to look really attractive, even though they are duds underneath all those stylish exteriors. Same applies to some of the Hyundais. Why not spend a bit more time in spiffing up the exteriors of the REX, beats me.

Later...AH

ateixeira · December 2001

But then people would say they look like Daewoos, Hyundais, or Chryslers. I guess you can't win.

-juice

hunter001 · December 2001

From what I recall, the latest Daewoo styling was done in Pininfarina.

Basically when something looks really good (eg. The new Mercedes S-class), you don't have to be apolegetic about the appearance, since the innards are very sturdy and top-notch. When the Daewoo/Chrysler/Hyundai looks good, they don't have the substance underneath to back it up. A Passat/Audi A4 etc does. The WRX has a lot of substance underneath, and if it is backed up by good-looks, it would sell like hot-cakes. But then again, too many REXs on the road may not be a good thing, however... ;-)

Later...AH

twrx · December 2001

I like the WRX styling. It is distinctive. I like my wife's RS but without the wing and scoops it was pretty boring. So maybe the new WRX is a bit wierder. But that is why it is a Subaru. (XT, SVX, BRAT, original GLs etc.) I liked the looks of my Forester but always thought it was not true to Subaru styling--way too conservative.
TWRX

ateixeira · December 2001

Giugiaro did the Leganza, I recall. Nice looks, but yes, lacking substance.

The Impreza stands out, but isn't gorgeous. If it were, I'm afraid the lines would be quite long!

-juice

ramiller1 · December 2001

pictures of the forthcoming Hyundai Tiburon? Not too shabby and almost looks like it came from Pininfarina.
--RA

rsholland · December 2001

also did the SVX, IIRC.

Bob

paisan · December 2001

did the SVX.

-mike

rsholland · December 2001

It doesn't look like what would come out of his studio.

Bob

paisan · December 2001

But I'll see if I can dig up some facts on it.

-mike

rsholland · December 2001

It says so in the first paragraph.

Bob

http://www.subarusvx.com/

twrx · December 2001

Not a Korean car fan but if the quality control is ok on Tiburon then it should be really nice. Love the styling and choices (two engines, three transmissions).
twrx

rex_ruthor · December 2001

and comes at the expense of other investments in the platform. If this wasnt true, then Saturns could look like Ferraris. The problem is that every budget and mass market car manufacturer is in business to move units, not to make beautiful cars. If they spend a lot of money on bold styling statements that fail to win the hearts of the buyers, then they just wound up with a massive production line they cant sell at the price they need to sell them at.

In the case of VW and Chysler, while the cars might look better than its competitors on some platforms, their cars are not known for mechanical reliability. The phrase "reliable as a Chrysler will probably never find its way into the lexicon. So you have a nicer looking car than your neighbor with a Ford Fungus. Big Deal. Get an Accord, get looks AND reliability.

Personally, I think Chryslers are kinda ugly. The grille element ruins the whole look of the cars. And inside, no domestic has world class ergonomics, when compared to the Japanese.

And the VW line, I dont see whats so impressive about. The Golf/GTI is based on a Rabbit from 1976. The Passatt is obviously descended from a Jetta. I dont know, they dont seem to have come far stylistically.

corkfish · December 2001

Anyone have performance figures for the wagon? I'm curious about the impact of the 80 pound weight penalty ( and don't tell me 80 pounds isn't significant). I know Sport Compact Car magazine did a comparison of the wagon with the RSX. Can somebody paraphrase some of the highlights? I'm afraid the sedan just reminds me to much of those silly souped up hondas that kids drive.

thecat · December 2001

sitting at a red light when .. you guessed it. I got hit. It wasn't earth shattering but enough that I got the ol' head whip. Damn! It wasn't a hard hit but I've had enough experience that I know it doesn't take much to do $$$ of damage. I got out,looked at the rear end trying to prepare myself for a shock. Sure enough, I was shocked. No damage. Not even a little paint swap. Nada! Way to go Subaru. A real 5mph bumper.
Now if Juice had been driving my car ......
- Hutch

paisan · December 2001

If I had been driving the other car...

Make sure to check the foam under the bumper. A lot of times it looks like a non-issue, but the foam has been crushed eliminating some of the protective properties of the 5mph bumper.

-mike

ateixeira · December 2001

The new Tib looks good. With a big and heavy V6, though, it's likely to compete with the Eclipse and Cougar.

Passat was derived from the Audi A4, not the Jetta.

Hutch - you OK? That stinks, bud. Definitely check under the bumper, and see if they line up in both wheel wells.

-juice

1subydown1togo · December 2001

glad to see you are OK...what was the story with the other driver...making a phone call? reading?

bluesubie · December 2001

That stinks. Could've been worse, I suppose.

Dennis

ramiller1 · December 2001

SCC timed the WRX wagon 0-60 in 6.3 sec, 1/4 mi. in 14.7 at 92.0. They also said the outside temp was in the nineties and they thought that caused the times for both cars to be slower than normal. The Acura RSX only did 0-60 in 7.6 which is a lot slower than other mags have reported. A turbo engine is going to run faster in cooler temperatures cause the air is more condensed before it even hits the intercooler. My guess on a good day, you're going to see 0-60 in about 5.8-5.9 sec. from the wagon.

They thought the wagon was better than the Acura for driving in the real world, but that the Acura had an advantage if you do a lot of track driving in car clubs, etc., because of the lower weight. They said the WRX won hands down as far as a tuner special.

They also liked "that fabulous EJ20" (engine), the "hooligan drop-throttle oversteer" (I agree 100%--and this is due mainly to that extra 80 lbs. in the rear), the "huge value for the price", and "hearing a passenger say a wagon shouldn't be this fast".

I've wrung the necks on both a sedan and a wagon and my personal feeling is the sedan is just slightly more agile, a little bit lighter on its feet, and has somewhat better visibility out the back. But I decided on the wagon because it's maybe a little better value overall when you consider price and the practicality of the Sport Wagon design. If pure driving fun is your first consideration then the sedan is the way to go, although the difference between the 2 is really miniscule--maybe two or three tenths sec. difference in the quarter mile.

rsholland · December 2001

Two comments:

1) In terms of the Impreza, I have yet to read an article (anywhere) on the new Impreza in which the styling hasn't been criticized. This is a given.

2) Arguing/discussing the design of cars, is like arguing/discussing anything with your spouse or significant other: It's a no-win situation. Everybody feels they are right.

Bob

ramiller1 · December 2001

Bob--I agree with both your comments completely. One man's meat is another's poison. The WRX has come in for a lot of what (I feel) is unnecessarily harsh criticsm of it's design, so I wanted to be the first (and maybe the only one) to say I really, really like the design on both models. I think the eye just has to get used to looking at these cars from the right angles to truly appreciate them. Picasso wasn't really appreciated at first in his day either.
OK, maybe they aren't going to win any styling awards, but in a few years, who knows, maybe they will look better to a lot more people.
--RA

1subydown1togo · December 2001

I also like the design of both cars...not just because I have one, but I find the lines and flow pleasing, and both cars have character, which is an important element of any design. I've seen lots of Acura RSX's lately and to me, they are the usual boring Civic-like vehicle

thecat · December 2001

for the concern everybody but really, Im fine. Even my 86 Y.O. mother, who was in the passenger seat, came through unscathed. The impact was about that which one would receive in a bumper car amusement ride. Checked the car out in daylight and everything looks fine.

I didn't take the time to discuss details with the other driver. My guess is that a "brain cramp" was to blame.

As regards the issue of design, it's true that beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I don't think the WRX is a head turner but the lines have grown on me over time. The front end could use some work though.
- Hutch

rsholland · December 2001

"Any article pertaining to the new Subaru Impreza will include a negative discussion of design."

Bob

ateixeira · December 2001

Debating design is like debating corn vs. tortilla chips.

I mean, c'mon, everyone knows corn chips are better, right? ;-)

-juice

novcenthusiast · December 2001

corn chips? you've gotta be kidding.

I also like the lines of the Sedan. I don't care for the front end very much, particularly the head and fog lights. And I think the presence of the hood scoop requires the rear spoiler to balance out the look.

I spoke to a couple of Subaru representatives at the SF Auto Show. I was told the STi wouldnt be available until MY2004. I asked why so late, one of the reps said it was due to a fear of cannibalization.
I said I didn't think there was a huge overlap in the target consumers of the STi and WRX (assuming the STi is 30K +). What do folks in here think?

rsholland · December 2001

Subaru is judiciously milking the market. They want to get the maximum sales/marketing mileage out of the current WRX, before introducing the the STi.

Also, I'm sure they want to make sure the STi is a proven product, before they introduce it here. This gives them a little time to work out any "kinks" before they send it over. It also gives them some time to gear up production for the anticipated demand.

Bob

narenji · December 2001

I think a great way to fix the front end is with replacement headlights. Morette headlights look great, and are about $500 for a pair, and they supposedly have better light output and distribution. Prodrive also makes some cool projector lights that they use on their UK models. That's available for around $700 non HID, and $1000 HID. They're even cheaper through group buys at http://www.i-club.com

Here are some links:

http://www.vividracing.com/prod_extlight.php

http://www.rallyperformance.com/lights.htm

I plan on getting one of these lights at some point. They're not like those cheap projector lights you see on some civics. These lights actually have brand name optics behind their design (Hella/Cibie etc).

ateixeira · December 2001

I disagree with that dealer - the STi will appeal to the cost-no-object rally fan, while the WRX is all about bang for the buck, and far more mainstream. I see little overlap.

-juice

twrx · December 2001

Fortunately there is no debate when it comes to the design of the Pontiac Aztek.

ateixeira · December 2001

Among us, no, but JD Power says owners rank it best-in-class in the APEAL study. It knocked the Forester out of first place. Go figure.

-juice

novcenthusiast · December 2001

I'll buy the "working the kinks out argument", but I don't think the WRX was available for more than a full year in Japan b4 it was introduced here. So why over a full year lag for the STi?
I could understand a MY2003.5 NA intro for the STi.
I also don't understand the genius behind the 3K 17" wheel option or why the NA WRX comes with RE92's while the rest of the world gets performance rubber. The price difference really can't be that significant. But I digress...

Juice, I agree.

hunter001 · December 2001

The only problem I have with the WRX (sportwagon) exterior, is the styling of the front-end, specifically, the headlight portion. Otherwise, I am absolutely fine with the design. The rear is fine. The 3/4th view from the rear is really stunning. The headlight portion needs to be re-worked a bit (maybe with smaller projectors) and the fogs should become smaller. The headlights/fogs look almost over-sized for the car (which is probably what the designers intended, to convey a rally-car image).

The basic design itself is fine.

Later...AH

rsholland · December 2001

I know there are STi production issues. For example, the STi comes only with a 6-speed tranny. It took some time for Subaru to get enough of these 6-speeds to meet market demand. They just couldn't build them fast enough.

So, this gives them time to gear-up (pun intended!) for future demand.

Bob

rsholland · December 2001

I sure hope that tranny makes it's way into the mainstream WRX too.

Bob

boomn29 · December 2001

Well, if the STI is years away... What improvements should we expect to the 227hp WRX? Any performance changes you think?

hunter001 · December 2001

I think the performance would remain the same, since there is no real competition at the current price/performance level.

But in the following years, Subaru might make heated seats/mirrors standard, in addition to a few other additions to the standard equipment levels.

They might even squeeze in a very narrow sunroof into the car. But the car itself would remain essentially the same.

Later...AH

rsholland · December 2001

could occur. There have been write ups wishing for that tranny. I think the STi will still have enough of an edge, performance-wise. I just hope they can build enough 6-speeds.

One of the rumors is that the next Forester will get the 6-speed too. I can't imagine the Forester having a 6-speed, and the WRX not having it too.

Other than that, we may see a moonroof and the AWP.

Bob

rsinger2 · December 2001

I'm still juggling the choice, WRX or A4...and they become ever more diametrically opposed. The A4, the sleek beauty. The pug ugly WRX, with undeniable real performance. My perverse nature says go ugly and revel in it, like a pig in mud.

rsholland · December 2001

with all the money you'll save by getting the WRX, take a nice long vacation.

Bob

boomn29 · December 2001

I'm cross-shopping those also for my next purchase (along with the supposed EVO and STI some day).

I say, get the WRX and replace the headlights. Check this before/after out: http://www.rallyperformance.com/wpe13.jpg

twrx · December 2001

I don't see a performance increase on the WRX. Maybe leather or heated seats or a small sunroof.

I had a '98 Forester L and by 2002 they had added power mirrors, daytime running lights, in glass antenna, cargo cover and intermitent rear wiper. Price is about the same.
TWRX

lark6 · December 2001

WRX - heck, all Subarus for that matter - have to get the manumatic. For goodness' sake, Kia has it licensed from Porsche! That and the cold weatehr package of heated seats and windshield.

Ed

Subaru Impreza WRX

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