Subaru Impreza WRX

qbrozen · April 2003

geesh. glad i didn't post some of my other comments. i think i might have been booted altogether.

sorry. just couldn't answer seriously when i didn't understand the posts.

so, fine, i'll try.

what is a "non conscious" buyer?

if there are no turbo car for under 20K that you can think of, then why is the WRX such an unreasonable price at $24K?

If the WRX didn't have AWD, then that much power would do nothing but smoke that front wheel and get you nowhere quick. Which means you could obviously forget about those sub-6-second 0-60 times that the WRX currently achieves.

pat · April 2003

"just couldn't answer seriously when i didn't understand the posts."

I hear you. But if that is the case, then please don't respond at all. That keeps you compliant with the membership agreement and does not reward a troll if the person is indeed a troll, and if the person is not a troll, he or she will learn that the communication style needs to change in order to get reasonable feedback.

Now, I'm going to ask that further comments on this subject be directed to me in email. This is disruptive here, and disruptive messages need to stop. I will have to remove any further messages posted about all of this.

pat@edmunds.com

Thanks!

vegoen · April 2003

Unconcoius Budget minded means people who don't have a price limit in their spending.

And yes that is true that the 0-60 wont be as fast but why do you think theres a limited slip? So in FWD with limited slip like the maxima, you are able to transfer torque to where it need s to be

kevin111 · April 2003

Mazdaspeed vs. SRT-4

Reliability - No brainer - Mazda
Handling - Mazda
Interior - Mazda
Acceleration - SRT-4
Room - SRT-4

Also Mazda has a limited slip while the SRT-4 does not (tends to smoke its tires, as qbrozen stated).

vegoen · April 2003

Yea Im leaning towards mazda speed.

But I wanna be sure if Its worth buying WRX or not. Cause I really like it

ateixeira · April 2003

If you get FWD do look for a limited slip. I'd go with the Mazdaspeed or the SE-R Spec V. Maybe toss in an SVT if you have tolerance for problems.

IMO what's needed is a good, full day of test driving. Sample a bunch of these, and narrow it down a bit.

-juice

qbrozen · April 2003

ok... so let's look at 2 other cars. The SER spec-V has a limited slip, but no turbo, for $19K. The NEON SRT-4 has a turbo (still less power than the WRX), but no limited slip, for a hair under $20K (not to mention that legendary NEON build quality :0). Looks to me like there is a snowball's chance in hell of having both options and staying under that $20K mark.

the mazdaspeed protege has both, but MSRP is over $20K and the limited availability means hefty dealer markup. Not to mention the anemic power.

himiler · April 2003

FWD with a LSD only gets you so far. You're still likely to have axle hop when doing a hard launch due to the weight transfer.

AWD just plain works better because you're always using all available traction and not losing power to wheelspin.

(However, put a LSD in a FWD car that handles great right out of the box - like my Prelude - and you get a genuine conering monster.)

paisan · April 2003

No offense but I have some pics of this vehicle and it has more body roll in auto-x than my dad's stock '97 Legacy L running on a 95K mile suspension! Oh I also out ran the SRT-4 in the auto-x as well with the 4EAT transmission and the 95K mile suspension on the legacy v. the SRT-4.

-mike

vegoen · April 2003

I just compared mazdaspeed with the wrx side by side and they had everything the same except for antitheft is standard on protege and not on wrx, and protege has more room in front

The only thing wrx had that protege didnt was AWD, and again I stress that for 5 grand more all ur getting is a not all the time usefull AWD system, agree with that please

paisan · April 2003

Well I guess then they'll sell tons of mazdaspeed and subaru will go out of business. Afterall they are EXACTLY the same in your mind...

-mike

pat · April 2003

vegoen, please stop asking these people to justify their choice of vehicle.

If you want to make a serious comparison between any two vehicles, you need to go to the Sedans Comparisons board.

If you believe that some vehicle or other is such a better purchase than the WRX, then go buy it and stop your taunting in here.

paisan · April 2003

Did vegoen consider the HP differences between the mazda and the wrx? displacement? torque and hp curves? reliability? wheel travel? etc. etc.

-mike

hypov · April 2003

< < I stress that for 5 grand more all ur getting is a not all the time usefull AWD system > >

for 5 grand less, you have 2 set of wheels that does nothing but go along for the ride. Now, that's not useful.

Hey, to each their own. I've found driving an AWD vehicle, Subaru in my case, to be reassuring in my everyday driving condition(s). Turns are more planted, on wet roads, what wet roads? And on snow,...
Wheee......

-Dave

c_hunter · April 2003

AWD is worth every penny on the WRX. I previously had a 97 Honda Prelude, which I still consider to be one of the finest FWD sports cars around (now only available used, unfortunately). Compared to any of the FWD cars mentioned in the previous posts, the Prelude would offer a far superior driving experience. That said, the WRX bests the Prelude in my opinion, and the big reason is AWD. It puts the power down to the road gracefully and without fuss.

Flip back a couple of years when the WRX first came out. Car and Driver put it in a 3-way comparo with a BMW and an Audi. It beat the BMW and damn near tied the Audi for first place. Why did Car and Driver compare a $25K car to ones costing $40K? Simply, they said it was because the WRX would clearly eat the lunch of anything else. Put up against other vehicles in its price class, it would be no contest. The WRX has been on C&D's 10Best list every year since, but they have yet to put it in a comparison with like priced cars. Yeah, it may be a $25K car, but it competes with cars far above that price range. In my opinion, it's a bargain (especially since I recently got a $26K 03 model for less than $23K).

Vegoen, if $25K is out of your price range, then cross the WRX off your list and stop trying to justify the vehicle. There are plenty of choices in the sub $20K market, and I think they would suit you better, especially if you don't have a need for AWD.

Traction control is not even in the same category as AWD; AWD helps you put down all your power to the road. Traction control actually limits power delivery. If having ABS kick in to prevent wheel slippage doesn't bother you, then go for traction control and FWD. It's just not even close to AWD. Turn off traction control on a FWD car, with or without limited slip, and you're going to have torque steer and end up smoking the tires if the car has any decent power. That would never happen with AWD.

By the way, the Ford Focus SVT is also supposed to be a fine choice in that sub $20K price range.

Craig

paisan · April 2003

Doing a track day there, I can honestly say that AWD is a very real advantage on the race track. My instructor a vette RWD driver had to pucker a few times as I powered INTO a turn, thinking the back would come around, instead it just gripped and went! A RWD vehicle might have kicked the back out if you powered into a turn and a FWD would have kicked in the traction control or pushed off the edge of the track.

I got the pointby from an M5 cause he was sick of seeing me in his rearview through every curve for 2 laps. Same thing with an M Coupe driver and several other "sports" car drivers at the drivers school!

And to think my SVX is almost 14 years old!

-mike

vegoen · April 2003

Well I mean I get that AWD sticks you to the ground and gives you advantes in acceleration, Im looking at it from a non racing POV

Dont you think the AWD and Turbo could have been a little cheaper, I mean if Im going to spend 25k im gettin an accord or maxima, because overall they are better cars.

Agree or disagree?

paisan · April 2003

In what sense? That's the thing.

First off you can't get an accord for $25K not wiht a V6 which is the power you'd need to be equal to the power found in a WRX, as for maxima, have you checked out the interiors of nissans lately? They are pretty cheaply built now, and again you'd need to go over $25K to get up there. Of course we are talking MSRP to MSRP, we all know you get the subies less (much less) than MSRP whereas honduhs are usually at or near MSRP and the maxima is pretty close.

Now if you want to talk apple to apples, you can get an AT legacy for around $19K-20K max and that is more in line with the Honduh Accord, IMHO.

How would you define better? Just curious, for me better is being able to have reliability + safety + handling + value. Only once you've driven an AWD for a while will you realize it's every day applications in Dry, Wet, Snow, Ice, etc. And then you realize, that no matter how good the traction control, etc, it can't compare to AWD.

-mike

vegoen · April 2003

Mike u drunk man. First off I have AWD car now. Wont comment on what I think of it.

Second where do you go off saying accords v6 equals the power of WRX? and then sayin nissans interior is cheap...look at the wrx man, then say it like it is

maximas are built with high quality same goes with accord, and no better does not fall under those categories u listed

Better is: Backing of the model and company name, reliablity from 10 years before of the same make...cant say that about a 3 year old wrx, and as performace goes, i dont preform with a car every day, i use it mostly to work and school. on weekends maybe a chic in the car or two

Bro read your posts more carefully before u post

axp696 · April 2003

The "When you get it, you get it" one. This debate is going in circles, and I'm not one to stop people from arguing until they're blue in the face, but the ad is dead on. Power does not equal performance. Handling is half of what performance is, and those are the people Subaru is marketing to with the WRX (and part of the reason they haven't built a FWD car in almost 10 years). Some people get it, some don't. But feel free to keep going in circles.

P.S. The new Lance Armstrong ads are GREAT.

kevin111 · April 2003

You might want to check out the Protege or Mazda 6 boards. They would be more in line with your thinking, and you could probably get advice about buying one of them.

BTW, before I bought my WRX, I was looking at a Maxima as well. I really liked the interior and power of the Maxima, but in the end, the driving experience of the WRX won me over.

I took a friend along to testdrive both cars. We looked at the Maxima first, then when we approached the WRX, he made the comment of why I was even looking at it when I can get so much more car with the Maxima. After testdriving the WRX with him, he said I should go with the WRX.

c_hunter · April 2003

I'm curious, what are you driving now with AWD?

Check out the Altima, the interior seems to have been designed and built by the Fisher-Price toy company. WRX is much better in comparison. Interestingly enough, the WRX uses some Nissan-Japan switchgear in the door controls, and it's top notch. Altimas, being built in the US, seem to use some other supplier's switchgear, and it's not nearly as good.

I used to be the biggest Honda fan around. Recent US-built Civic and Accord models have gone downhill, and it's especially notable in interior quality. I have not been impressed by the Accord for some years now. Granted, it's still better than most of the 4 door family sedans you can buy, it's just not as good as it used to be.

You should be more respectful to the other people here. Mike has been around on these boards for a long time (even before I started participating in 2000). He knows a lot about cars, and I think he knows how to post. Overall, the people on this board are intelligent, friendly, and well educated about cars. It would be nice if you could try to act the same way! I think we would take you a lot more seriously. As it is now, I'm having a real hard time relating to you. I'm reading your posts on other forums, and wondering what you're really up to.

Craig

harlequin1971 · April 2003

not having driven the MazdaSpeed or SRT, I still would harbor a guess that a simple day of test driving should reveal some differences between cars in that category and the WRX.

I drove a WRX wagon about 2 months ago, and it was a riot. Similar gutsy bursts of fun to a Saab 9-3 Hot Turbo, but no torque steer. I couldn't work the clutch very well (rusty?) so I can't comment of sheer acceleration, but the car was fast enough for all but the very power hungry.

You may be right that in 90% of the normal, everyday driving situations (when we drive at about 30-50% of a car's potentail) a WRX isn't a big advantage over a MS or SRT. But then again, with the proper tires, the WRX will not get stuck in the snow or ice, the AWD will get you off a muddy grassfield if you happen to actually leave the road, and AWD can help even on dry pavement, just add a few morsels of sand and watch the wheels spin.

I like the WRX, and if it wasn't $23+, I would seriously buy one...I think it sounds like you are more concerned with proving to yourself that the MS gives you everything a WRX would for $5k less...and that isn't quite true, but may be true to you.

If so, there is no reason to buy the WRX.

paisan · April 2003

Haaa, the WRX has been around for ~10 years, just not sold in America!

I find it funny how you are willing to purchase a Honduh based on a '92 model year car lasting 10 years! In case you haven't noticed the reliability of honda and toyota have dropped over the past 10 years, why? Well it's simple economics, if they can cut corners and still retain their customers (like yourself who thinks an '02 honda = '92 honda) then there is no incentive to keep up the quality.

If you want a car for purely commuter status, then perhaps you are getting ripped off if you buy a maxima or accord, afterall, you could easily get around in a Elantra or Rio, no? With the Hyundai or Kia you are guaranteed to have a working car for 100K miles. I haven't seen that come up in your discussion though. Heck for the price of a maxima or accord you could get almost 2 Rios or Elantras.

Power for power the honda accord is going to be very close to the wrx. 227hp v. ~250ish, but you have to realize that honda motors are tuned for the high-rev band, not low end grunt like most of the subies, even the 2.0l turbo comes onto boost and max torque before the v6 does. As anyone who has driven both. Of course it seems here you are comparing these 2 vehicles on paper, not in the real world, so I'll let your arm-chair automotive knowledge rule you. I'm more of a real-world tester. Before I buy a car I go out and test drive a well broken in specimen owned by a real person, I don't even settle for a test drive of a new vehicle at the dealer.

-mike
keepin it real

qbrozen · April 2003

Veogen says in another forum that he bought a Viper Venom for $80K. OK, buddy. Guess you won't be coming around here anymore saying that the WRX is too expensive, huh? Happy trails!
see

axp696 · April 2003

Apparently this isn't the only board he's been trolling. That's pretty funny, though. "Hey guys I just bought a 2000 Viper Venom 800tt from an idiot in texas for 80 grand, the thing is amazing." I suspect his posts will be deleted pretty quickly.

c_hunter · April 2003

Hey, but at least we get to hear Hutch's comedy routine. Gave me a good laugh.

Vegoen, you should definitely head over to nasioc, they will have a lot of fun with you. We're just too serious and composed over here.

Craig

ateixeira · April 2003

Who would pay $80 grand for a used Dodge anything?

-juice

kens · April 2003

Is Hondabro back? ;-)

Ken

corkfish · April 2003

You guys might want to laugh at him, but you should realize that judging from some of his commentary, there might be a legitimate illness involved here so I'd just ignore it. Can anyone recommend an aftermarket exhaust for the wagon which actually enhances power and an adult could get away with?

hypov · April 2003

John-
The STi muffler would be good, or the Stromung dual tip for the OEM look. Power? Don't know. Haven't got them on.

Shoot me an e-mail

-Dave

prayerfor · April 2003

corkfish --

The MRT turbo-back system is one I'm looking closely at... very high quality construction, includes a high-flow cat in the downpipe (many systems don't have cats at all to eke out extra HP), adds a nice amount of power, and is one of the quieter setups out there.

The Prodrive cat-back (or is it axle-back?) systems are nice too if you want to keep the stock downpipe in place. Also high quality and on the quiet side.

vegoen · April 2003

You guys really have no lives do you. Checking me out in other posts? Are you seriously that nerdy? Those statements are just put out for a laugh, of course I dont have 80 grand, seriously you guys are pretty big low lifes. I feel sorry for you.

Except for kevin and the others who actually pay attention to the smart debates I seem to post, instead of ridiculous crticism you disgusting losers put up

twrx · April 2003

Ignore the troll.

aluben · April 2003

Does anybody know if Subaru has certified used vehicles?

overtime1 · April 2003

I like the WRX, and if it wasn't $23+, I would seriously buy one

I just got a quote for a new '03 manual wagon for $20,990. They are trying to give them away now-a-days ;-).

OT

dill6 · April 2003

probably been covered already, but it looks like the '04 sedan with the s/roof and heated seats also comes with the rear wing, like it or not. Is this ocrrect?

ateixeira · April 2003

No, Subaru does not yet have a certified pre-owned (i.e. overpriced used car) program that I know of.

One thing I find funny is that dealers do not keep whatever records the original owner might have passed on. So right there you lose what is of most value to me.

$20,990 is a near-Neon SRT-4 price. Does that include freight? Wow.

-juice

c_hunter · April 2003

The wing is part of a premium package, which includes moonroof and all weather package. As far as I can tell, you get stuck with the wing in order to get the other two, like it or not.....

Craig

ateixeira · April 2003

And I don't - to me it looks like a Boomerang. Send them all to Australia, mate. ;-)

-juice

hypov · April 2003

You should be able to order the premium package with instructions not to mount the wing. Just a thought.

Sell the wing, you'll have takers.

-Dave

vegoen · April 2003

Anyone experience any tire slippige?

I was driving in my cr-v and i experienced slippage when i accelerated fast

sonya4 · April 2003

vegoen--We're getting tired of you, and I have a lot of patience. If you think a WRX is too expensive and all that, don't get it. Just don't try to trash or needle those of us who own or are interested in one.

I love that the WRX has AWD (among other things). It hasn't snowed much in the Chicago area the past few years, true, but I like knowing that when I do go out in the snow, I can rely on my car.

Plus I'm still getting comments from others (even people on the street) like "nice car!" almost 2 years after it was introduced in the U.S....

--sonya

pat · April 2003

vegoen, did you see my email from last night? If not, please check.

Email me if you have anything further to say.

pat · April 2003

Again, folks -- if you want a troll to leave you alone you need to understand that responses are what keeps him coming back. Why would someone frustrate himself trying to agitate when no one GETS agitated, y'know?

Pat

dop50 · April 2003

since I posted, I agree with Sonya4. I am constantly getting good comments from strangers about the WRX. I just feels good to have people come up and say things like "nice wheels", or "cool car", or "I really like those!". And it's still a "break neck" automobile. If I had to venture a guess, I would say at least 30% of the people who see it, do a double take.

I also have to agree with the HOST, people do go away if you ignore them. It's funny this person is called a TROLL, I always thought of a troll as a monster under a bridge, lets let the high water wash it away.

I just love my REX!

Ken

hunter001 · April 2003

Responding to a troll is music to his ears and he would keep prompting for more. Ignore and he would slink away. Most of the statements from the current specimen, is essentially gibberish and has nothing to do with gathering or imparting knowledge.

Later...AH

harlequin1971 · April 2003

I just got a quote for a new '03 manual wagon for $20,990. They are trying to give them away now-a-days ;-).

Yikes, might have to give my guy a call...that is fabulous.

aluben · April 2003

Im considering buying an 04' wrx because it has a little more luxury in it the 03.

Anyone recommend 04? or prefer 03?

aluben · April 2003

Im not too worried about insurance because my company rates it in how much horsepower your car has instead of the year

Subaru Impreza WRX

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