Lincoln LS

ezaircon4jc · April 2001

Hey Lincoln Bubbas, where are the spare fuses? I was relocating my new trunk light to a more useful spot and I blew a fuse

. When I FINALLY found the blown fuse (the manual doesn't list the trunk light in the diagram), I couldn't find any extra fuses. I had to take a spare from my Sable, which had spares. Did I miss the spares or is it assumed that a Lincoln owner wouldn't bother to change their own fuses?

90mercsable · April 2001

I just checked the web site inventories of 3 Lincoln dealers in my area (LI,NY). Of the 50+ cars in stock, none have AdvanceTrac. Has this option fallen out of favor, or is it left off to keep the $ low?

reneleblanc · April 2001

I just computed our overall gas mileage for our 2000 LS8/Sport after 20346 miles. It comes out at 20.6 MPG overall.

The engine computer mileage calculation for each tank generally comes out pretty close, but with a little 'jitter' from my computed MPG for each tank. I generally reset the computer's gas mileage after each fill up.

I am not known as a 'slow' driver, so some of you will probably get better MPG. However, I try to drive smoothly (which means not slowing down much unless I have to) ;-)

pennyl0199 · April 2001

I guess Ia'm not the only one with a/c problems. Can't seem to beable to cool cabin down unless you set it at 69 or 70.Back vents don't blow enough air so the back seat area is so hot you could cook a ?Dealer said never heard of this befor.Still waiting for new seat belt for pass side (2wks) going to call hot line today and tell them they have a real problem on there hands if we get a ticket or worse get into a crash.

ronniepooh · April 2001

Was browsing through one of those Import Car performance type magazines at the grocery store the other day, and this mag was extolling the virtues of the cone air filter intake type intakes, especially when the cone itself is mounted very, very low as to get the coolest air, as opposed to that hot air behind the radiator or in the engine compartment. The problem with this "ideal" setup is that if you go through a deep enough puddle, bye-bye engine as you suck in water that, of course, can't be compressed.

One company (sorry...cant think of the name) has a solution that the magazine apparently very successfully tested. It's kind of hard to describe, but involves a secondary small inline filter further up the intake pipe. The pipe at this point has rubber flaps around the circumference. Thes flaps are normally fully closed, but in the event the lower end of the pipe fills with water, these flaps open, allowing dry air to enter the engine. (Theres a foam filter element surrounding these flaps). At some point after leaving the "puddle", the water drains back down and out the main filter.

If anyone wants more details, I can try to go out and locate the magazine/name of it/issue that includes the article.

Sidenote: A year or 2 ago, detailed dyno tests about these filters were done over on one of the BMW lists. To make a long story short, the biggest factor in HP/TORQUE gains wasnt necessarily the air temps, but the underhood air turbulence caused by the cooling fan. This turbulence interfered with the actual volume of air being sucked into the cone filter. Visible dyno gains were noticed by simply placing a piece of cardboard between the cone filter and the cooling fan, to eliminate the turbulence.

giowa · April 2001

4/5/01 issue of NY Times had a small Bloomberg News story headlined "Ford Will build Diesel Sport Utilities for Europe". Says Ford to build 10-15K diesel-powered Explorers annually at the St. Louis plant for export. Daimler-Chrysler's Detroit Diesel will supply the diesel engine. Currently Ford sells only about 5K gasoline-powered Explorers annually in Europe. Got me thinking about those recent statements concerning development money and positioning Lincoln. If Lincoln wants to expand into Europe or if Jag wants to expand further, esp. at lower end of product lines, then a diesel is almost obligatory in Europe, where about 40% of all vehicles sold are diesels.

ls1bmw0 · April 2001

Advance-Trac is standard on the Sport Models and an option on the non-Sport models. Most dealers will stock the Sport over stocking a non-sport with this option. Re-look at the inventory and see how many of the 50+ are Sport models.

Brian

johnnylinc · April 2001

AdvanceTrac is definitely not standard on the Sport. It's a $735 option on all LS models. The Sport comes standard with the same traction-control system that's standard on the non-Sport models.

Note to 90mercsable: I think you hit the nail on the head. Dealers probably don't stock it because of the cost and because most people either aren't aware of it or don't want it. Of the literally hundreds of LSs I've seen on dealer lots in Central Texas, only half a dozen or fewer had AdvanceTrac.

I have it on my '01 V8 Sport, and in 7 months I haven't activated it once. I'm still glad I have it, and I would definitely order it again, but I'd bet that the penetration rate is less than 5%. I do think that Ford is committed to this sort of system, though, because it's becoming available on more and more Ford models all the time. You can even get it on the Focus now.

akirby · April 2001

Brian - I don't think AdvanceTrac is included with the Sport package. It used to be (and is still listed on Edmund's pricing) as a separate option. Did you see it somewhere else listed as standard?

Maybe you're thinking of the audiophile sport audio package?

akirby · April 2001

The old feature that would show you when a new post was inserted before your comments are posted was a really useful feature.

giowa · April 2001

AdvanceTrac was optional on '00s, including Sports. Don't think it was available for '00 LS6 manuals, but is for '01s. My '00 LS8 Sport has it and I had to pay for it in addition to the Sport Pkg. Pulled out the glossy Lincoln '01 LS Brochure. It lists AdvanceTrac as optional for all LSs, including Sports.

Lincoln mailed me a color brochure on the '01 premium package. If I remember right, it could NOT be ordered with Sport Pkg. I haven't seen one. Wondered if anyone here has one. Do you like it? I liked the seat logos and picture of the leather surface. Is it selling well. (Wish Sport Pkg included different, sport seats.)

ls1bmw0 · April 2001

Learn something new everyday!

That's what happens when I assume too much. Most dealers around my area load up the models and the Sports usually have the Advance-Trac option on them. Wonder why they don't make it a standard part of the Sport package?

Thanks to everyone who corrected my error.

Brian(who should probably look at the brochure before speaking)

johnnylinc · April 2001

You are correct; the Premium Package is not available with the Sport package. Some Sport components are included in Premium: The Sport wheels (in chrome), the Sport-tuned suspension & shocks, Sport steering calibration, and Sport brake linings. The Premium pkg. is only available with the automatic tranny.

The biggest downside to me is the fact that you can't get the SST shifter. Premium has the wood shift knob and wood-and-leather steering wheel rather than the leather-covered ones from the Sport; it also has the chrome bumper strips.

The biggest upside is that the Audiophile sound system is included. The in-dash CD changer is standard on Premium, and the $605 discount is currently in effect, which reduces the V8 retail price to $3090 (V6 is $400 less, I think).

The new light/medium parchment and light graphite/deep charcoal interior colors are unique to Premium, as is the new exterior color called Ceramic White. It's non-tricoat and is similar to the Vibrant White available on the '00 model. The other exterior colors for Premium are Medium Cypress, Ivory, Silver Frost, and Black.

I've looked on dealer lots several times since the Premium Package was introduced, but I've yet to see one. My local mega-dealer's LS stock has dwindled drastically over the past couple of months from a usual 40-50 cars to probably 15 or fewer. They just don't seem to be shipping many LSs to this part of the country right now.

cpa4u · April 2001

I have been looking for a good "slightly used" 2000 model LS for a month or so now. Came across a dealer about an hour and half from me that had 3 listed on his web page. Do these prices sound like a good deal to you guys? I have looked a at a couple on dealer lots with approx 10k for under $30k. Just haven't found a dealer willing to trade for my Grand Cherokee yet! LOL

2000 LS light parchment list $39975 your price $32950
2000 LS autumn red list $39250 your price $32350
2000 LS white pearl list$39320 your price $32400

any thoughts?? Thanks!

ls1bmw0 · April 2001

If the leftovers don't have miles on them, then it's a pretty decent price. You could probably chew them down a grand more but I doubt it. Are these Sport models, sounds like they are pretty loaded? The pearl white paint is an extra cost option so that one must be short of a couple of other options compared to the other two.

Brian

cpa4u · April 2001

Just spoke to the dealer. He says all 3 are sport models. The pearl white LS does not have a sunroof. He said that the red one was absolutely beautiful. Not sure that I have seen a red one out on the road around here (western KY). Several silvers and blacks, few golds. What would be your thoughts on the autumn red as a resale color down the road? What about scratches and dirt showing (as on a black car)? I may just have to drive over there in the next few days and test drive these cars!!

giowa · April 2001

I'm assuming you are looking at used cars, not unsold/never sold '00 LSs.

If I was you, I'd check out the respective build dates. Look on door jam but also look on window sticker, if still available (or maybe they have a copy somewhere in business office if dealer was original seller and these are used cars). Also check to see when they went into use. Might be better to have a later build '00 LS than an earlier one. But a later build one with same or higher miles, esp. if put into service later, might indicate someone putting high miles on it quickly. If possible, try to talk to the original owners. Why did s/he sell? See if you can get service, maintenance, & warranty repair records. Long shot: maybe Service Tech might know something about it?

billincal1 · April 2001

I got the 2001 premium V8 sports package with the midnight gray ext. lite graphite interior..I just wanted to to thank this board (and Brian especially) for suggesting the advance-trac. I haven't driven a model without one but mine sure corners like it's glued to the road...As I was told by the dealer, it's always on until you physically hit the button and the off lite goes on (resets itself to "on" every time you start the ignition). I don't know why somebody would want to disengage it in the first place...anyone got a response to that?

also... I almost passed on the midnight gray ext. I thought it would show the dirt and dust (which it did on the model that was on the lot...but you know, there is nothing more beautiful (IMHO) than a deep dark gray metalic...after it's just been washed and those chrome hubs buffed and polished and tires treated...

klarson1 · April 2001

I have the cordovan and can tell you that it shows little dirt.
Unless it's really dirty even after several weeks of no washing it still looks great.
I think the biggest problem is the polished wheels. They show dirt after a day or two.
As for resale I can't say. I can only tell you the color is rare. I seldom see it besides my own.
Which I think is a good thing

Kevin

alphanstein · April 2001

I got the psuedo premium package, everything except advance track and cargo net and got 16" high polished aluminum wheels. So I didn't really get a premium package, but close enough. I did get the medium parchment and chrome accents on the bumpers, as well as the wood shifter.

So, speaking of trim, I searched and could not find, all I want is the wood trim that covers the AC/Stereo/ and center vents, that matches the existing wood. Called exoticwood and they won't piece it out. I would have to buy a whole kit. And the dealer quoted me $650, although I don't know if that was for an entire kiet. Does anyone know where to get the trim I am looking for?

And another annoyance is somewhere to put my shades. Up by the upper controls near the sunroof is an ideal place for sunglass storage, why didn't Lincoln put this there, it seems to have enough room. Anyway, I am being picky. How are you all storing your shades? I don't want to put them in the armrest, to much other stuff in there already.

Jeff

desertguy · April 2001

Go to www.exoticwooddash.com. They don't sell by the piece but have two kits, one with about 20 pieces and one with twelve. The small one sounds like what you want and the diagrams show which pieces you get. I opted for the smaller one and it looks great. Actually, you can buy just the radio piece from them I believe. At least they show it as a separate item.

ls1bmw0 · April 2001

The Autumn Red is a beautiful color, especially when it's shined up. Only downside is that you will be spending a lot of time keeping it clean so you can admire the color

It's almost a candy apple red and quite fetching. There also aren't that many of them around so if you want to guarantee your uniqueness this is a great color.

Brian

ls1bmw0 · April 2001

You can also go to www.woodtrim.com for a trim kit. You get free shipping if you mention www.llsoc.com. They also have two kits available.

Both ATC and TRAC are set to default to on. If you switch off ATC or TRAC with the console button, that only stays off until the next time you start your car, then it switches back on again.

Brian

sniemietz · April 2001

Took the recently repaired LS on a 600 mile road trip this weekend. The best I could do was 19 MPG, that's with the AC on and drving about 80-85 MPH. It looks like Pavilion finally fixed the radio. After going over some rough roads it looks the extra ground wire they added did the trick. Of course, time will tell. After listening to the guys at the dealership they, along with oter Ford dealers in this area are having problems with the only Ford authorized radio shop in town. Pavilion was supposed to bring this up last week to the Ford rep.

Johnnylinc: The LS I bought at Pavilion had the Advance-Trac option - no charge.

markls8 · April 2001

Bill wrote "I don't know why somebody would want to disengage it in the first place...anyone got a response to that?" Bill, it seems to me that if I want max acceleration on a slippery surface (i.e. sand and rain this time of year, pulling into heavy traffic) I would disengage the advance trac because you can continue acceleration uninterrupted. With advance trac engaged there will be a (at first scary, later on anticipated) delay between the time it engages, retards the timing (or whatever it retards) and then resumes. I recall some of the guys on this forum commenting that for running the pylon course that they would prefer to turn it off, I guess for this very reason. I have come to realize that comparing it to limited-slip differential is like apples to oranges. LSD is instantaneous and continuous, advance trac is DEFINITELY neither of these. The technology is still in its infancy, however under many conditions it is indispensable. I would definitely buy it again- I'm not knocking it overall, just saying when you might want to turn it off.
Kinny- I had that musty smell a few times during the winter, but it was a "new car" musty smell. Just before the car's 1st anniversary from purchase date (at about 10,000 km and two months after build date) the message center told me to change the filter. I thought the two events were related (a "musty sensor"?) but Day F-L told me that the message comes on prematurely because the cars can sit around at dealers or warehouses before they are sold and that the computer is counting that time too; a lame explanation, but I'll accept it for now. They told me to just reset the message back to zero again without replacing the filter.(The scheduled time for the filter change- at their expense of course, is still a long way off.) I would expect that the smell is coming from the filter, and not from the condenser itself, and for the price of a filter (probably not cheap) one could find out. Or maybe take the filter out and smell it. In any event, these are symptoms, and as you say maybe poor drainage of the coils could be causing all this. I'd sure like to find out before it becomes an "old car" musty smell. That A/C spray they sell at auto stores has done the job temporarily in previous cars I've owned, but I look at it as giving me a choice of dying from either the mould and fungus, or the chemicals meant to kill the mould and fungus.:)

BTW- Kinny, I'm just curious- Did you get any freebies, such as flute glasses or touch-up paint when you bought your LS? That is, of course, other than a "free" engine/tranny etc.

I've been told that the flute glass promotion is US only.
Also - saw your car parked next to mine at the Price Club a while back -Black is Beautiful!
Regards - Brian.

briarius · April 2001

Frequently my MPG display will display a reading like "0.2 avg mpg" though 19 miles per gallon is more accurate. It's easy to reset the system and go on but within a few days or weeks, the system will freak out again. Anyone else have this minor issue?

Secondly, many many posts ago someone explained how the outside temp sensor logic worked and how high outside temperatures and whether or not the engine was warm determined if the sensor took readings every second or every XX minutes. Where can I find that explanation again? Thanks.

johnnylinc · April 2001

I'm glad to hear that Pavilion got its act together and finally got your radio fixed. Did they fix it themselves, or did the radio shop do it?

Regarding AdvanceTrac, it is definitely an option. For 2000, it was available only on auto-trans cars; it started at $725 and was increased to $735 later in the '00 model year. It's still $735 for 2001, and is now available on the manual, too.

If your car has it, it will be listed as an option on the window sticker, and the button on your console will have the letters "ATS" on it. Also, the last item on your message center status display (V8 models only) will say "ADVANCETRAC OK". If your console button says "TRAC", then you have the standard-equipment traction control system, but no AdvanceTrac.

If someone at Pavilion told you your car had AdvanceTrac as standard equipment, they were mistaken--it isn't standard on any 2000 or 2001 LS.

thomas_l · April 2001

I saw an Autumn Red LS this weekend on the road - great color choice! With respect to AdvanceTrac: I definitely turn off the AdvanceTrac for autocross - it doesn't recover fast enough to permit decent acceleration after a "course correction". Other times I hit the off switch are when I am getting ready to blast into traffic from a side street or parking lot - especially when there's a little pavement bump. If the inside rear even THINKS about chirping, brakes are on and throttle is cut for 1/2 sec. That can be scary with 60mph traffic bearing down on you! Otherwise I leave it on just in case something unexpected happens. I haven't had the misfortune of needing it in the LS, but I have already used the equivalent feature in our '01 C240 (plus brake assist) twice and I swear by it. And I tend to drive with more "gusto" in the LS! Go figure...

ls1bmw0 · April 2001

Well, in a few hours I'll be red-eyeing to the NY Auto Show to help generate interest in LLSOC and help Lincoln promote the LS, along with about eight other club volunteers. If I see or hear anything about the upcoming LS models I'll post them here and on LLSOC.

Brian(who is looking forward to normal pizza, not this SoCal stuff they call pizza:))

kinny · April 2001

Markls8:

I'm coming up for my 20,000 Km service in a week or so, and I'll inquire about the smell and see what they say. They treat me very well at Day F-L, but I don't think they'll give me another LS over this issue :-)

Yes the black is nice *when* it's clean which as you know hasn't been very often over the last six months. But, Spring is here and I try to keep it as clean as possible now. I think I am going to try claying the car. BTW: If anyone has any tips on claying, I'd appreciate hearing about them.

As for freebies, you are correct, the flutes are for the US market only. Instead, I received a really nice package from Lincoln which consisted of a black leather portfolio (about 12 X 15 inches) made by Roots with the Lincoln logo embossed on the front and inside is a very nice pen (not sure who makes it) with the Linclon logo and name etched into it. There was also a pad of 8.5 X 11 note paper, again with the Lincoln logo on it.

I also received a complimentary membership in the Qwest travel club which gives you discounts on food and lodging. I think we saved a couple of hundred dollars on our last trip to Florida using it for hotels, etc.

Take care.

reneleblanc · April 2001

At LS Mania, I chose to leave AdvanceTrac engaged during the autocross runs. I really wanted to learn how the AdvanceTrac would affect my car when doing fairly extreme driving maneuvers.

I'll admit my best times were two or three seconds slower than the top runners, but frankly, I thought the AdvanceTrac operation was very non-intrusive and subtle.

If I had really tried to push my LS to the limit, I expect I could do better with it off, but for almost all ordinary every day driving circumstances I think it provides an important and very effective safety factor that will almost always help, rather than hinder.

billincal1 · April 2001

I think I sent this post but it didn't show up..anyway I was getting no better than 17.1 since I got an LS V8 sports package about 3 weeks ago. After I reset it jumped to 20.9 over the course of 30 miles...much better...and thanks to all who helped explain advance-trac.
Bill

brunobus · April 2001

Funny thing happened this weekend. I went to Vegas for three days and before I left, the computer was showing 19.3 MPG on it. Got back and it was up to 19.9. Of course the wife was driving it all weekend. Hmm....wonder what that means. Must just be the weight difference between us...yeah that's it, an extra 30 lbs. has to be the difference.

Bruno

alphanstein · April 2001

What's claying? Never heard of this.

My MPG was averaging 20 for the first tank, that was mostly highway driving. I am on the second tank and doing mostly city driving, and of course testing the acceleration, now at almost half a tank and avering 16.7MPG. Almost at the 17 stated for my 2001 LS build 2/01, so I guess I can't complain. And if I recall, someone said the MPG increases slightly with the breakin period. I am also the victim of San Diego sucky gas and high prices for the crap. Someone wanna send me a tank of that good stuff from Arizona :-).

Jeff

kinny · April 2001

Alphanstein:

I'm not sure that "claying" is the proper term and I have never done it yet..... but my understanding is that we can purchase a clay bar which I *assume* is an extremely fine grit clay material that when rubbed over the car removes all of the surface imperfections caused by old wax, scuffs, road dirt, salt, etc. I imagine that this is something like a mild rubbing compound. Again, this is an assumption unless someone corrects me, but this is done prior to giving your car the summer treatment which in my case is a Mother's brand cleaner, sealer and wax. (No I'm not trying to start a brand name war here folks:-)

I first heard about claying on this board and I wanted to really give my black LS-6 5M the works now that the better weather is fast approaching.

So again, if anyone can offer any advice on claying, I'd really like to hear it.

--Kinny

eweygrin · April 2001

I was surfing through ebay and found auctions whereby people are selling Lincoln LS logo items such as golf balls and polo shirts. ANy idea where these products may have come from originally? I was under the impression that Lincoln does not put out these products. DOes LLSOC offer them yet? Incidentally, I also noticed there are some auctions running for LS rims.

cdnpinhead · April 2001

Having bought (reluctantly) into the Zaino cult, I've learned what "claying" is.

Turns out that if you drag appropriately manufactured and lubricated clay across your car's finish, the clay will grab onto any particulate matter that may have been embedded into it. The stuff really does work (and anyone who has been following any forum I've been involved in should know I'm a skeptic at the best of times), but is a dfinitely labour-intensive.

The Zaino zealots will tell you it's worthwhile, but I'm not so sure. I bought it and used it, but got very little crud off my new car. OTOH, it took off a mystery mist/splash spotting that my wife's van had on it that was resistant to everything else. Using clay ("Claymagic" or some such is another brand name) does tend to leave a very smooth surface, which you would then clean with Dawn or a similar mild grease-cutting detergent, followed by the surface protectant of your choice. I've done all this, and it's rewarding. Much more so on a painted surface (yes, many of you have heard this before) that doesn't look like it was put on with a roller.

sniemietz · April 2001

My car does have Advance Tram installed, console button, message center the whole nine yards, I even had it come on once. It's just that when looking to buy the salesman said this option was "no charge". So when negotiating the deal I didn't figure this option into the price I offered which was 3% over dealer invoice. I also had the remote start installed which also wasn't included in my negotiated price as well as the "mop 'n glow".
As far as the radio problem goes Pavilion was the one who actually fixed the problem. They added a second ground wire to the amp. The service manager had seen this before. I did talk with your contact at Covert about the radio problem back when it first started about 6 weeks ago. It turns out the the same guy who fixes Covert's radio problems is the same guy who tried to fix radios at Pavilion.
I had read somewhere you work at Solectron. I worked at IBM for 17 years before Solectron bought us out. I stayed with Solectron for about 6 months before moving on. Prior to my IBM service I worked at the TI plant from 79-82. Small world.

johnnylinc · April 2001

NOW I get it; I was totally confused. I wonder if the salesman had a clue that he was giving away a $735 option--makes you wonder how those guys stay in business. Good for you, though; sounds like you got a really good deal.

When the in-dash CD player in my Mark 7 conked out (around '92 or so), I took it to Covert and they did the same deal you described earlier--a subcontractor swapped out the entire unit. I don't remember the name of the sub; may have been the same one. Worked out OK for me, though; it was a 1-day fix and the unit worked fine from then on.

Have you noticed how Pavilion's LS stock has dwindled to almost nothing? I went & looked on Sunday--they haven't gotten any new ones in weeks, and 5 or 6 of the ones they have are 2000 models. Maybe it's due to the plant shutdown or something, but they sure don't have the number of units they used to carry. I wonder if this is the case at dealers in other parts of the country.

Yeah, I'm at Solectron. Been in the same plant since '78; heck, we might've been in meetings together way back when! Seems like a lot of the IBM folks have left--likely a good idea, too. I probably should have done the same when we got bought. Companies don't treat employees the way they did when I started with TI. We're all just meat now.

Glad you got your car fixed; thanks for clearing up my misunderstanding.

karzz · April 2001

Articles on the Mark Nine concept. The first article has some JR quotes.

http://media.ford.com/

http://www.auto.com/industry/ny11_20010411.htm

petdoc1 · April 2001

I went Saturday and looked at LS's at our 2 local Lincoln dealers. I live about 15 mins south of Nashville. Thought something seemed sort of strange. They had as many 2000 models still sitting in new car inventory as they did 2001 models. The one dealer has 4 2000 models and 5 2001 models. I'm trying to see the difference between the two model years. What would be the major differences? The salesman pointed out a few cosmetic differences on the interior. Are there any notable differences that would make the 2001 a significantly better choice? The sales manager came out and basically said to make him an offer an any of the remaining 2000 models. 3 of the 4 have the sport package. 2 are parchment (I think that was the color), one is black and the last is a pearl color. All 4 were just shy of a 40k sticker price. There seems to be some pretty knowledgeable people on this board, so what would you guys advise me to "offer" for one of these cars and not get laughed and thrown from the dealership?? Haha

alphanstein · April 2001

There were several TSB's that I saw that were relevant to some of the 2000 models, transmission, rear windows, etc... Since they are there, you shouldn't have an issue with getting them addressed if they do arise in your vehicle. One other feature about the 2001 is the 3yr/36Kmile complimentary service, an added benefit, and the service intervals are 5Kmiles for 2001 vs 3Kmiles for 2000. If this little added benefits make a difference, you should go for the 2001. 2001's also have enhanced cupholders and different package options than 2000's.

Best thing to do is wait for month or quarter end, then go in. Most Sales managers/people are likely paid on monthly/quarterly sales, so you can better negotiate on these days. Best thing to do is research your payment options, buy vs lease, and work out your expected payments for each. If you want more thoughts on either option, let me know which and I can give some insight?

Best thing to always do is try started near invoice pricing, check the Edmunds TMV and work from there. TMV for my vehicle, 2001 V8 with moonroof, Audiophile system, and premium wheels was $37,500. I negotiated down to $36K. Dealers get fleet pricing usually, which is below invoice, so the 2% holdback on invoice is usually greater, including incentives which are likely going on now since car sales are way down. If it were me, I would offer 5% below invoice for a 2000 model. Mostly because dealers are motivated to move the inventory if it has been costing them money to hold the inventory. This depends on their financing though, many dealers actually finance their inventory, so this may not work. However, if one of the 2000's is used, then you can work this plan.

As you can see, a lot of variables. If the dealer laughs when you offer a low price, then they are likely not motivated. I had this happen when I bought my 1996 Taurus. Told one dealer I wanted to spend $17K, $3K under invoice, he said I would never get that. A couple of dealers later, I drove off with what I wanted. Be diligent. I drove back to the original dealer to show off, he wasn't happy :-).

Jeff

heyjewel · April 2001

I know what you mean. When I picked up my 2001 LS in mid-Feb, the dealer had about 1/2 dozen 2000s, maybe 8 or 10 2001s. There definitely are deals to be had on the 2000 model year. My delaer had "$6000 off" in the front window of the 2000s. Previously it had been $3000, $4000 and $5000. So I would estimate they're up to $7000 or more off the sticker on the 2000s. Meaning just shy of $33K for a very well-equipped V8 LS. Pretty good price. I almost bought a left-over 2000 V8 myself. But my wife and I finally decided that we wanted the 5 speed manual. Since they're rarer than a chicken on fox hill, I had to order mine.

There were a few first-year bug issues with the 2000s. The only one I would worry about is the "51mph drone" as that's the only bug they haven't got a definitive fix for, altho it's rare in the 2001s. The drone sound appears under light acceleration at that speed. Test drive carefully and listen. Many 2000s had adjustable headrests for rear passengers. Early ones may even have the audiophile radio with the sports package - an unavailable combination since early 2000.

Course the 2000 is going on 2 years old, model-wise timeframe. But it is a new car, and your warranty would still have 4 years on it.

The prices went up at least $1000 in 2001. So a $40K 2000 = $41K+ 2001. Edmunds TMV, probably a realistic price to pay for an LS, says $38,500 for a 2001 stickering at $41.3K.

So $5500 or so more out-of-pocket for a 2001. (Or only $4000 or so more if you can negotiate a deal like Jeff, above.) For that you get current year, complimetary maintenance (3yrs), a different cupholder design, an extra power point and child seat anchors.

Also, the recent 2001s have some new interior options available that the 2000s did not.

So that's it, IMHO. Either choice is good and the car really is great.

giowa · April 2001

I've got an '00 LS8 Sport w/AdvanceTrac, sunroof, audiophile, 6-disc CD, & heated seats. Now have about 29,000 miles. It was in the shop for about 3 weeks recently and I had an '01 LS8 base with no options as a loaner. Put a couple thousand miles on the loaner, including a roundtrip from Omaha to Tulsa. Biggest differences I noticed are that the '01 doesn't have the adjustable rear headrests (forgot to see if it has a full-size spare or not but thought it didn't; mine does, w/alloy rim); however, the cupholders are much MORE functional (we were able to fit in odd coffee cups, mugs, Big Gulps, etc. that we can't in our '00) and there is a power outlet for the back seat, in the rear of the center console (which allowed the kids to readily plug in their CD player).

If you travel a heck of a lot and with wife/kids, the '01s' changes make this a bit easier. But I love fact my '00 Sport has the full-size spare w/rim, rear headrests, & audiophile. If you want those items in the Sport then maybe go '00.

stevenwglauser · April 2001

Maybe it's just the flat-perspective press photo released today, but looking strictly from a side profile, this car does not say "Lincoln" to me. I've been joking with my friends that it looks like something Cruella DeVille would drive and I know L-M wants to avoid any association with a Deville of any sort.

I much preferred the Motor Trend artist rendering of the Lincoln suicide-door convertible with some of the '61 styling cues, FYI. Hey, why not add suicide doors to the current LS and make that a convertible? Who's making a four-door convertible these days?

If you need a market research guy in the very affluent Atlanta area, I'm your man. I work for a bank and know what all the new-generation bankers want to drive.

Thanks, as always, for listening.

Another die-hard LS owner,
Steve Glauser

ls1bmw0 · April 2001

I'd offer the dealer about $7,000 off of list for the 2000 leftovers and as part of the deal, make them document that the recall and TSBs mentioned here and on LLSOC have been applied, if needed. There are some minor differences between the two years but I personally don't think that there is enough of a difference to justify the savings you could get.

The only downside is that if you intend to trade the car in after a couple of years, you will be a year down in value.

Brian

brucelinc · April 2001

My 1.5 cents worth:
It is difficult to see enough of the Mark 9 concept to offer an opinion but I, for one, would love to see a coupe on the LS platform.

The concept drawing shown in Motor Trend is interesting - sounds like we are seeing some styling cues for the facelifted LS. IMHO, the styling cues would be a better fit for the Town Car or Continental. I would love to see Lincoln more competitive with those. A Continental on a stretched DEW platform with the 5.4 DOHC engine could make Lincoln a player against the Lexus LS 430, et al. It is a shame that in many markets Lincoln has to discount Town Cars and Continentals $10,000 off MSRP to move them.

Like many others, I would like to see a bit more distictive front and rear end on the LS. A major change to the retro look isn't necessarily my first choice. I think it adds to the integrity of the brand when you maintain some identity from year to year even as sheetmetal is changed. Note that while a new Mercedes looks modern, you can sure see the family resemblence to a 1990 model.

brunobus · April 2001

Better view of the front and side of the MK9.

http://www.autoshowny.com/newproducts1.cfm?manufac=Lincoln

johnnylinc · April 2001

The link below will take you to an Automotive News article about the Mark 9. Click on the photo and you'll go into a frameset with 7 pictures of the Mark. Click on the >>> arrows to flip through the photos. WARNING: Once I got into the frames, I couldn't get back here--you'll have to close the window and start over.

http://www.autonews.com/html/main/nyshow/lincolnny.htm

As a former Mark 7 & Mark 8 owner, I'm really jazzed that Lincoln has a Mark concept car at the show. I'm less jazzed that they used the Town Car platform, though--a DEW98-based Mark with the 4.6 four-cam Cobra engine (or the 5.4 suggested by brucelinc) seems much more logical.

I'm especially jazzed that they used the absolute best color combo for a car: Black exterior, red interior! Booyah! The lipstick red seats are a bit much, but the rusty red on the steering wheel and dash would be a PERFECT interior color for the LS. Hope someone at HQ is reading this.

JLinc, still not quite used to having his first 4-door...

buckwheat · April 2001

http://www.wieck.com/public*2pv_020154 http://www.wieck.com/public*2pv_020155

Lincoln LS

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