By accessing this website, you acknowledge that Edmunds and its third party business partners may use cookies, pixels, and similar technologies to collect information about you and your interactions with the website as described in our
Privacy Statement, and you agree that your use of the website is subject to our
Visitor Agreement.
Comments
If Lincoln does not wake up very soon they will miss capitalizing on the wave of reasonably priced, performance luxury vechicles, they helped launch. There are no more 5+ year life cycles like the ones Lincoln enjoyed with their big land yachts. Hope they don't miss the boat.
Fit and finish on my 10/99 build LS8 has been first class, and other than moisture in the headlights, I've had absolutely no trouble whatsoever. Lslincolnsucks, you'll never convince me (or many others on this board) that Lincoln falls short in the quality department.
The full text in on LLSOC under the Recalls/TSBs link on the navigation bar. It calls for installation of a jumper wiring harness.
Brian
P.S. I'd like to see Acura publish their TSBs. And don't tell me that they don't have them. I tolerated a Honda Accord that my wife had for a year. Yes, it was dependable and there were no problems. But it was without a doubt the DULLEST vehicle I have ever had the displeasure of driving. I've also driven most of the Acura/Lexus/Infiniti line and while, in my opinion, they are fine cars, they are soul-less compared to the European makes and compared to the LS.
We all love RWD, but AWD certainly (he said hopefully) is at least as good? Since my recent trip to Europe & introduction to Audi as they're driven rather than marketed, I'm doing some research. I frankly didn't look at Audi's when I was shopping the LS because of perceived reliability issues. Not sure that was accurate, but either way, what do you think?
To address many of the past week's posts, I'm not dumping on the (my) LS. I'm just trying to learn more about one of the bona fide competitors. I've learned a lot about BMW, Lexus & Infiniti over the past couple of years, but never did Audi. Based on much of what I've learned so far, I'll be keeping my LS for awhile.
Audi has very very few dealers. Here in the metro Phoenix area, there's one. If you extend the search to a 200-mile radius, you get up to 2 (count 'em), with the other one being in Tucson. In addition to which, the Audi, even with the Quattro, puts the majority of the weight on the front wheels. The complexity of Quattro & the dual turbo setup (offers those of us who prefer a manual a very attractive option), combined with the scarcity of dealers, doesn't bode well for those who might keep an automobile past the lease or warranty period.
The paint sure looks good (they have a real red) though, and the interiors aren't even in the same zip code with the LS, so I guess we all continue to examine our options.
OTOH, I could spend $2 - 3K on a repaint in a color I like, get the windows fixed, glue back the stuff that's fallen off, and be good to go for several years.
I guess it's the free market at work -- others would consider it whining.
http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/010810/nyf016.html
And I don't have to defer to anyone in regard to prefering RWD. My '96 Impala SS and '00 LS8 Sport are proof positive. I just know that the lack of RWD doesn't automatically disqualify an otherwise good car from serious Sport Sedan capabilities. Esp. an AWDer.
The stats, price, equipment, and value do make the 3.2TL S a serious competitor. It may be bland in base mode, but in Type S it is an acceleration screamer. And don't anyone tell me the 330i isn't a serious LS competitor. The 3 and 5 Series are the epitome of modern sport sedans. The M models for each are nearly the embodiment of sport sedan driving nirvana.
(Oh, and I could say I'm tired of reading about lots of types of posts. But I ain't God nor the censor of this site. If you don't like something, do what I do. Skip it. That isn't too difficult.)
The LS8's engine is quite nice. I love mine. It is almost, if just not quite there, in comparison to the magnificent I-6.
First I heard of the dealer replacing both rear assembles.
When I had the first failure they refused. again this time. And if they have a fix why did the same window fail again.
I must be missing something.
Kevin
The competition is whatever else the individual buyer is considering, for whatever reason. In my case, the toughest competitor for the LS was my (then) current car. The LS had to be good enough to get me to part with my beloved Subaru Legacy and, at the same time, more than double my car payment.
I've expressed some impatience with Lincoln, but, enough. The 300M and Catera have been on the market, mostly unchanged, a lot longer than the LS, and DC and Cadillac are at least as far out in their development schedules as Lincoln.
I'm still ecstatic over the luxury and performance I got for my money, and am optimistic about the future of the LS. Furthermore, if I were shopping for an '02 sport sedan, I'd buy the LS8. I didn't want an "upscale" Honda or Toyota last year, and still don't. And I won't compare Lincoln's current offering with other manufacturers' future plans.
Anyway I ordered my LS Manual on "blind faith", resigning myself to the only Manual, four door, RWD sedan of reasonable size outside of the BMW. AWD sounds nice but complex and heavier and in San Diego I need AWD or 4WD like a fish needs a bicycle. Since I took delivery 7/2000, I have had the "window problem" and that's it. No squeaks, rattles, beeps, or failures. Lots of 60 mph corners with 25 mph signs, four wheel drifts, and outrageous dynamic behavior which I enjoy. Sort of like "Space Mountain" on wheels.
I think the reason some of us disagree on the mission/purpose of the LS and its competitors is that some of us (e.g., myself and maybe more of the LS8 Sport and LS6 Sport manual owners) focus on the Sport Sedan aspect (i.e., the performance of the car in the critical areas of acceleration, braking, handling, & ride), while others (e.g., LS6 auto owners) focus on factors tied to the car's size, platform, price, and status (i.e., in interior room, trunk space, size, RWD/IRS, mid-$30K price, and luxury amenities).
If you focus on the former then any decent Sport Sedan, which would include RWD/FWD/AWD models, is potentially relevant. From a Sport Sedan standpoint, it doesn't (& didn't) matter to me if the 330i's or 530i's trunk is smaller than the LS's or that the rear might be a bit more cramped. If you focus on the latter, then you are quickly narrowing the scope. There just aren't too many RWD platforms as large, heavy, or capable as LS. Some like the TC/CV/GM just aren't as all-around capable while others like the 3 or 5 Series give up interior room and trunk space, while others like Lexus GS or Jag S-type cost a lot more.
Would be interesting to know the sales breakdown of the LS by LS8 Sport, LS8 base, LS6 Sport auto, LS6 base auto, and LS6 Sport manual. I think those buyers who want the sport package will view the LS's competitors a bit broader than those who didn't want the sport package. Maybe the LS6 Sport manual buyers might be the most exclusive since there aren't that many great Sport Sedans available with manual tranny in this price range?
I think the fact that the Catera and 300M have been so slow to change has been noticed by both the car-buying public and automotive press. How much do you read about either any more? Notice how slow sales beceame? And how deep the discouts are on both? That is exactly what began to happen to LS in MY 01 and will get worse in MY 02.
Brian, any insight to this or how involved she will be?
TSB 01-01-02 - Window Regulator Replacement:
"Calls for replacement of both regulators with the new level part so that a repeat trip for repair can be eliminated."
I would advise you to ask your dealer to provide you with a copy of this TSB, and have them read it for themselves. Not being certain when you first experienced this problem, perhaps you did not get the improved regulator when the repair was implemented. It is also possible that your dealer did not correctly obtain the improved regulator or the improved regulator was not available when the repair was done. Either way, this should no longer be the case.
However, I have recently seen a discussion on the LLSOC board indicating that there in now a nation-wide back-order on the regulators, and that FoMoCo has recently changed their policy on replacing both regulators at the same time, although no official word has been conveyed yet. I believe Brian (aka. ls1bmw0) is researching this through his contacts.
It should be noted though, that window regulator failure problem was first brought to Lincoln management's attention through reports on this board (stanny1 I believe). Dick Cupka, then Director of Lincoln Engineering, addressed this issue at LS Mania I in Irvine, CA early this year. Dick explained that the old regulators were being purged from the pipeline at that time, and that the new design was being expedited into service and the replacement part channel. Dick assured us that window regulator failures would not be a "chronic" problem with the LS. The failures being reported now SHOULD only be from early build date vehicles that have not already had TSB 01-01-02 implemented. Hope that helps.
Please, let's not go there.
Stan, there is a blower for the Contour 2.5L. I'll have to tell you who to talk to.
That doesn't mean that Lincoln doesn't care about the board. On the contrary, there are at least fifteen of the key LS engineering managers that regularly "submarine surf" the board to stay in touch with the owners.
Anne will eventually get on the board as soon as she gets up to speed. Her travel schedule is every bit as hectic as Jim's was, so I'm sure her home base time will be limited, at least initially.
The club is checking up on the rear window regulator "national back-order" issue with Lincoln. The TSB clearly states that BOTH regulators are supposed to be replaced. The TSB that is on LLSOC is taken directly from the TSB advisory that is sent out to the dealers. So Kevin, I would suggest you contact your dealer service manager with the TSB in your hand.
Brian
In 1989, the competition was Audi 200 / BMW 535i / Nissan Maxima SE. The SHO tested head-to-head
and beat them all. Pricing? Audi $36K, BMW $45K, Nissan $20K and the SHO $21K.
The SHO was only available in a manual. When an automatic came in 1993, it received a 3.2L engine to
push the torque curve down for the tranny. The manual didn't get the 3.2L engine. Effectively no
change was made to the SHO (five model years). In 1996 the "new" taurus arrived and the manual
ended in MY'95. Seven years of no changes or upgrading. What a surprise that market share faded....
Here the LS has had three MYs and no changes. Rumor has it that changes are promised for MY'05 which
will be six years of no changes, hardly promising. But the competition isn't sitting still, the rumor mill has it
that the A6 will be redesigned for MY'04 and a closer to 50/50 weight distribution is in order. Should this
happen, then the A6 becomes the BMW "killer" and the LS's only marketing attribute will become pricing.
Not a good place to be.
We all know the potential that the LS has but the market place is dictated by follow through, not potential.
An "affordable" BMW is looking less and less likely.
For me - I am thinking toward lease end and considering two options. 1: spend more money and get a CLK430. I drove this car a couple months ago and just about needed a panty liner. 2: Get a full size truck F150 or C1500 and spend the savings on my racing hobby (SCCA in a 87 Fiero GT). Kinda stupid, but my point is that comparisons are a pretty individual thing. The CLK and a truck have nothing in common except for me.
Personally, if I were just comparing the LS "in general", I would compare 4 door sport sedans in the $25 - 45k price range. Period. There's a lot of models in that set, a lot that I wouldn't look at, and very few that I would even consider owning. I suppose that puts me with giowa and scottc8 on this one.
By the way, I traded in a 94 Bonneville for my LS. And I'm pretty fickle about cars (see my post on the "About the members" forum. I've averaged around a car a year and they include all sorts of cars and trucks.
At least have the decency to say that my business car, a '00 Hyundai Sonata GLS, is a 170 hp 2.5L V-6, 5-speed manual, with 4-wheel disc brakes and ABS/traction control. It has side airbags, pretensioners, leather, sunroof, CD/cass, 4 full headrests, heated mirrors, split-fold rear seat, etc. And I only paid $18,400. (I've had her up to 120 mph. Surprisingly composed. Guessing she'll do about 124 mph.)In the first 24,000 miles she has had a single repair. A burned out headlight. Plus a MAF recall. Both replaced under warranty. I don't want to compare that to my trouble-prone LS8 Sport, which lived in the shop the first 16 months and 25,000 miles.
If you are ever in Omaha area, I'll race you in all three of my cars. I might beat you with each of them.
Guess Lexus should've gone back to school before the put their I-6 in the IS300? And is General Motors just wasting hundreds of millions of dollars on their new 4.2L 270 hp I-6? Isn't it interesting that even Consumer Reports got their 4,660 pound GMC Envoy SUV with 4-speed auto to go 0-60 in 8.2 seconds with it? Odd that the car press has been saying nothing but great things about both of these I-6s!
stanny1: feel free to leap in. Didn't you have the Toyota I-6 in the mid-80s 4-door sedan, Cressida?
I will take notice of the TSB and inform the dealer of same.
Hopefully with this info I can get satisfaction..
Thanks
Kevin
BTW: My wife got an Infiniti I30 because she liked the Millenium Jade Green color better than anything Hyundai was offering, otherwise we might just own one!
I'll try to check my satirical comments. Or be more obvious
The CTS forum is a nice chuckle. The car isn't out yet and their beating it up! Interesting post comparing GM plastic to Lego blocks. The BMW forum, is as usual, a BMW forum, except there were a couple of comments by the host regarding the LS that I thought giowa might want to have a go at.
this may be the one you saw.
http://www.wardsauto.com/default.asp?action=en
(Very slow loading site)
Total Ford engine production was 4,685,375 but that was all Ford brands. That's alot of iron!
Brian
Something like Lady-Bird Johnson's beautification of American highways campaign.
Mark
Thx for the response, Stan. I'm with you. A couple of years ago, when I was having severe problems with all three of the automatic transmisssion vehicles for which I was responsible, the LS was a breath of fresh air. I went for it feet first. Never drove a demo, let alone with a manual (as if there were any).
Now I'm a couple of years older. Probably not wiser -- could be less so, given the age thing. A recent European trip helped me put driving into the perspective I was told the original LS was working with. High-speed autobahn driving with a manual, with a (European-favoured) diesel made me feel really good about the original LS concept. . .and really depressed with the ultimate result. . .so far. Maybe it'll all turn out okay.
Hide and watch.