Chrysler 300M

beach15 · February 2002

You've got to be kidding me! $20 grand for a 99' with 50k miles? First of all, it is not worth that at all. Second, if that were true, our 00' M with only 18k miles would be worth about $22-33 grand which it is not. I've asked, and the highest someone told me for a trade-in on the M is a "heavy" $15.5k. So, in other words, we'd be very lucky to get that, and our pay-off is still about $13k, so not much of a down payment on something else.

If anyone in the Manassas, VA area are looking for a Special, here's one at a dealer. I must say, it looks really good and probably would drive a heck of a lot better than ours, but one bad M is enough! Anyway, take a look (full-size pic with window sticker):

http://www.manassaschrysler.com/Chrysler/290132.html

on1wheel · February 2002

today the wife closed the drivers side door and something klunked! later she rolled down the window and when she rolled it back up,it came off track.the window went clear up past the door edge!
anyone experience this? i dont remember anyone ever mentioning it. guess i`ll tear in to the door tomarrow.last week (i think),someone posted the website with the instructions on removing the door panel.can someone repost it? i thought i had saved it,but i guess i didnt.
i will post my findings,and remedy as soon as i find something out as to whats wrong with it!

lonestarsled · February 2002

This is a PDF file:

http://www.kwmuth.com/TechSupport/PDFs/21000190.pdf

sirharper · February 2002

More horror stories about that once-wrecked M of your parents huh?

Do us a favor...get yourself a riced out Honda Civic and pretend it's the ultimate driving machine like the rest of the kids your age.

BTW...2 years here...ABSOLUTELY NO UNSCHEDULED SERVICE...no vibration...no road noise (except the Borla)...no alignment problem...wipers work fine (original blades)...no leaks...NO COMPLAINTS!

no1trust · February 2002

Is there a separate topic for Duralube/Slick 50, etc., products at Edmunds? I'm still lurking to see how the 300M Special fares before I commit. I'm also a little concerned about the customer service; there's a lot of complaints about 5* "service" here. The dealerships I've been to so far around here supposedly recently lost their 5* ratings, is this a hint of things to expect? Otherwise I really love looking at and renting the 300M.

300michael · February 2002

I have read a few articles a while back stating that the products like slick 50, QMI, duralube and others tend to block the fine oil channels in the engine over time. This would explane how the engines could run "dry" with no oil, because of the slime that is still in the rings and such that still lubs the engine, after the oil is drained. Not to mention the oil filter will filter out most of the particles thus clogging up the filter faster. The first and last car I tried it on was my 70 Dodge Cornet.

300michael · February 2002

I used to add desel fuel to the engine to help clean it out, and Marvel Mystery oil to get rid of the tapping lifters. But that is the extent of the additives I have added. And only for a short time. Right now I run 5w/30 mobil oil.

300michael · February 2002

Most of you old kogers remember the Frantz oil filters that used toilet paper. Well they still make those and a new unit that actually pumps oil through the entire engine before starting it. The only draw back is when you switch on the ignition the pump starts pumping oil and 30 seconds the engine starts. No fast get aways.

sdmike2 · February 2002

A fire. You need a fire. Or a cliff. Yeah, a cliff. That's the ticket. For some reason I think you'd find something to complain about in any car you drove. Mating that degree of criticalness (a word?) with what sounds like a lemon you have a recipe for major league trouble. Not only do I not have ANY of the defects that you have (wipers, leaks, rattles), but I have no compaints about the responsiveness of the car and the handling, and I've driven hundreds of cars. Drive yourself a couple of dozen before you pass comparative judgement. At least you'd have more than a sable to compare it to.

300michael · February 2002

There is a 300M engine and transmission on Ebay for $2,500 (Thats cheaper then a turbo unit). He could have droped it in the trunk and have a 500HP four wheel drive 300M:) Can someone say Vaarroooom Zoom Zoom?

99_300m_ric_va · March 2002

Forget about silly products like duralube, slick 50 etc. What you're trying to do is fix the failings of regular petroleum oil. The best way to do that is to use a good quality synthetic oil instead.

bigmike5 · March 2002

I have to agree with SDMike. My 99 is approaching 4 years old this summer and has over 40K miles on it now. It has suffered some of the usual part problems with the window motor, etc., [first year build and probably bad rice-burner parts] but Otto and the boys did a good job and it has no, leaks, rattles, etc., the steering is tight and way more precise compared to my wife's 96 Aurora, many newer Buicks I have rented, and now her 00 Eldo; it is faster off the line than the Aurora was [unless you really tromped the accelerator down on that puppy], and not as fast as my 93 Regal GS coupe [which I used to refer to as a "rocket" off the line]. It is also no match for the Eldo, but neither was the price or horsepower. However,I have found that the passing gear engages differently in the M's tranny than any of the GM products. If I am driving at 35-40 or entering an on-ramp and need the power to merge-in or pass, I find that I really have to tromp down on the gas sharply, and keep the foot down til it kicks in and decides to go, and then I do not let off til I am satisfied with the speed I have made. With the GM products the passing gear kicks in a lot easier and does not require the heavy continuous gas to prevent it from kicking back out. When you have the chance and are doing 45-50 on the highway with a clear road, tromp that gas to the floor and see if you don't feel the afterburners kick in. If you let off too quickly after it kicks-in it will shudder back to a slower gear/speed, so when you make up you mind to engage the passing gear, go for it. Off the line, the M is only ok, but a lot of that is due to how they set the torque --low end or high end--from the gears I guess. Low end--great initial speed, high end great moderate and high speed response. At my age, I'd rather have the power at the higher speeds. Its not as quiet as the Eldo or a Buick LaSabre, but is about the same as my Regal [with Badyears] and the Aurora [with MXRV-4s]. Its sound level is better since I dropped the Badyears, but this is a very subjective area and everyone is different depending on what they have driven before and what they expect. Anyway, if I still have this M when I kick-off, get my 300 Hemi C, or 2004 Caddy XLR [exec. car, can't afford new], or the trade offer is ridiculous, and my kids don't want it [probably won't as they are both out on their own and in rice burners now], I have your e-mail address and maybe I will give it to you or leave it to you in my will. I hope you are at least 26 if and when my kick-off occurs!!!

Hey Pat-- I responded to that post for "car crazy lawyers" and got blown off about as quickly as I anwered it. Guess they really didn't need that many.

km99cobra · March 2002

I too have been interested in the 300M Special. I have a 99 300M lease that will be ending in 5 months and my fear was that if I wait until then DC won't be making any more Specials. No one seems to know if they will or won't (Otto?).

Some recent news has me concerned however. DC Financial has really dropped support for this vehicle (and I suspect the base 300M) if their lease programs are an indicator. When I leased back in 1999, they had factory to dealer and customer cash incentives (like they do now), but the residual value was over 55% for a 3 year/36,000 mile lease. Their current residual value for a 2002 300M Special is 43%. That's their flagship vehicle for God's sake and it loses MORE THAN HALF its value in 3 years??!! Something doesn't make sense. It may be time to look elsewhere.

ski1001 · March 2002

I have a 2000 300m with 22,000 miles and have had no problems. This is my 20 car (mostly all were new) and I must say it's one of the best I have owned. Not the fastest from start but really have passing power above 40mph. This is also my first Chrysler product and so far have been satisfied by the car and the dealer. I paid 26k for this car back in Oct 2000. All the toys except PHP.

glennbp · March 2002

Guess I'll put my 2c worth in at this point. It's interesting to note the M problems that several folks keep harping on in this forum. Then again it's also interesting that many others have had no problems. Car problems are sort of like the evening news; bad gets reported early and often; good rarely gets mentioned at all. That's human nature. We all expect not to have any problems so when we do, the whole world tends to hear of it. I'm an old guy by most standards and have owned damn near every type of auto there is over the years. Some years ago when I was wealthier and a little crazier, I leased a brand new BMW 635CSi. This was Beemers flagship state-of-the-art performance luxury coupe and stickered out around 60K! Was it a great car? You bet it was, but it was in the shop every month for the first year I owned it. I thought I had a "lemon", but was informed that BMW did not produce lemons! I won't go into the details, but after months of fiddling, fixing, and some major overhauling, it finally lived up to my expectations. The moral of this story is that ALL cars are complex machines with numerous systems, all of which are subject to falter; and ALL automobile manufacturers suffer a certain percentage of failures and these system failures are expected. So whether you drive a 300M or a BMW or an ABC from XYZ company, there is always the risk of problems. I suspect a very tiny percentage of 300M owners even know of this forums existence let alone post anything here, so the question is: Of all the 300M owners out there, how many are happy and how many are not? Look at the long term surveys from reputable polling firms and you'll see that the vast majority of M owners report very few and minor problems. My point here is let's not use this forum to bash DC. They are doing a fine job! Now individual dealers are another story, and if you find an irresponsible one, 5* or not, then it's your responsibility to report them and follow-up. Nothing will ever change if we all leave it to the next guy.
BTW-I own 2 DC cars, my 01 300M, and my wife's 01 Durango. Neither has had a single problem.

ottowrkr · March 2002

I have heard that the Special is doing so good that the production has been extended. I figure DC likes what it sees with all the orders so it will buid as many as you guys will order.

jona57 · March 2002

bigmike5-

My previous daily driver was a 95 Intrepid ES with the prev. gen 3.5L, and that also seemed to lag a bit when stomping the accelerator to pass. I found that annoying, although some may prefer those "smoother" gear shifts. My 300M acts something like that Intrepid in 'Drive", but there is much less of that "tranny lag" in Autostick mode. I use Autostick mode for urban highway driving. When I want to pass, a simultaneous wrist flick and accelerator stomp & I'm gone! Much quicker response than stomping the accelerator in Drive. I like the Autostick!!!!!

BTW- Depreciation is worse on ALL cars after the huge new car sales numbers of the past few years (due to rebates, 0% deals, etc.). A savy friend of mine was just offered $25K tops in trade for his IMMACULATE 2 1/2 yr old 540i by a BMW dealer he's dealt with for years & bought several new cars from. This depreciation bug is hitting ALL makes to some degree. It's hell on new car buyers, but great if you want a clean 2-3 yr old machine.

Jon

jona57 · March 2002

Otto-

Your Saturday overtime sure backs up that observation on sales. No Special for me as a bought a loaded '01, but no regrets. I love my wood luxury group!!!!!
BTW- Have you heard any rumors on DC offering the Special's "preformance gear ratio" to other 300M owners through MOPAR performance parts ?

Jon

glennbp · March 2002

I need advice. I'm ready to add lowering springs but am not sure whether to go with Intrax or H&R. What do you folks recommend?

jj300m · March 2002

Great post; my sentiments exactly.

My 2000 300M has circa 26,000 miles with no major problems, with the exception of the Goodyear tires. It is as solid as the day it was driven home, with no strange noises, squeaks, leaks, etc. There are alot of outstanding cars out there in the "near-luxury" class, but the 300M is the best combination of all the features one could want. I tend to not think of cars in the disposable sense...my first car had 217,000 miles on the original trans. and engine (Chrysler 2.2 turbo no less-not trying to profess brand loyalty here

)when sold, so I am not concerned with depreciation / resale value. I follow the severe service recommendations with no "magic" additives, etc. All maintenance is owner performed. It's people like me who took advantage of 0.9% 60 month financing and deep discounts in late 1999 / early 2000 that create low trade-in values. Take a look at 1994-1998 Infiniti Q45 resale / depreciation values. Do those low values mean that the Q is a poor quality car?

sdmike--Sure do wish I could make the trek to the SD meet this month from VA. My wife and I will be in San Diego sometime later in the Spring, however...albeit driving a rental!

on1wheel · March 2002

in 1993 my father bought a brand new jaguar XJS v12 sport convertable. he paid $97,500 for it. it was full of problems also.he`d be driving down the interstate and it would simply shut off!DEAD!
he had probs w/ the top,lights,the brakes,and other stuff too.it got hit in the left front,and he took it to the dealer to get it repaired. they had the car 8 mths! said they were waiting on parts! he got tired of fighting with the dealer and traded it in on a new `95 eldorado. they gave him 36k trade in! he lost 61k in 2 yrs.but he never had a single problem with the caddy,and got 100* service.
i took it to detroit one weekend and it needed the oil changed before i left,so i stoped in the dealer on morning of trip,and they said no prob.the actually moved a car off the rack and put ours on,and the other customer was standing there watching!they told them "he bought his car here new,and you bought your`s used from another dealer.our customers come first!" ours was free,and the other customer was paying for theirs!
i was in disbelief the whole weekend!

grunschev · March 2002

My '99 300M now has over 49,000 miles on it. The only unscheduled services were for a window regulator and a replacment oil pan (the original was damaged by Q-Lube by overtightening the drain plug).

I've got a few rattles I didn't have earlier, but I'm blaming the very stiff ride -- I have the PHP with 18" wheels and Eibach springs. The car performs great and is mechanically sound. Not a single drop of fluids on the floor of the garage.

For the last year or so, I've been using Earnhardt Dodge for oil changes (ever since Q-Lube bought me the new pan). I bought the car at Earnhardt Chrysler, but a job change a while back made them less convenient. But I was out running errands last weekend and took it to Earnhardt Chrysler for an oil change. Even though the two places are owned by the same people, the difference is like night and day. I mentioned this to the service rep and he just shrugged his shoulders. Earnhardt Chrysler (IMO) clearly deserves the 5* while Earnhardt Dodge needs to improve. Even so, judging by some stories here, Earnhardt Dodge sounds better than most.

While I was waiting for the oil change I went in search of the Special. The eight sales people waiting by the front door all pointed me in the same direction, but it turns out the one they were talking about had sold. They told me they have 4 more due to arrive and I should check back in a few days. Oh well, maybe next time.

About resale value... A few months ago I considered trading down to a new Sebring (due to the job change mentioned earlier). They offered 16k in trade. Needless to say, I've still got the 300M.

It is only my 4th car, but it is without a doubt the best car I've owned. Although I've only owned four, I've driven everything from Cadillacs, BMWs, and Porsches to Chevettes, Pintos, and Vegas. Of all those cars, this is the best one for me. It has the combination of size and performance I want.

Now all I need to do is get the speedometer and ground effects from the Special.

Igor

blonda · March 2002

Fastdriver -
Of course i'm not interested in that M....I've got one I'm perfectly happy with!

Beach -
We have a much higher resale value on cars here in California than the east coast. I think it's mainly because we don't have to deal with road salt that causes rust and corrosion. The Chrysler dealer down the street from Acura has a 99 and is asking $23K. But on the other hand, older american sedans (in the 80's) can be sold for a hefty profit back east. For instance I had inherited an 88 Old Cutlass Ciera with the 3.8 V6 from my great aunt a few years ago. It was 8 years old and only had 38K miles on it. It looked like a total "old persons" car but at the time I thought it had a lot of power. Doesn't even come close to the M Although the Olds did require a feather light touch from a stop not to burn rubber...(like Mboomgarden described). The M on the other hand requires a feather light touch at high speeds...going 95 mph I'm hardly pressing on the pedal. But back to the resale value...I was only able to sell it here in CA for $2,500, but I did some searches and found that back east the same car was going for as high as $9K.

Oh, and your comment about the slack gas pedal. You also mentioned that you guys baby the M and don't hit the throttle hard....remember it has a learning tranny. If you drive it like a grandpa it's going to treat ya like a grandpa.

glennbp · March 2002

Great point blonda... Drive it like it needs to be driven and you'll be a lot happier with the responsiveness.

blonda · March 2002

I had my driver's side window go off track. I caused it to happen when my auto window down was only working intermittently and I kept playing with it to decide if I needed to take it to the dealer before the mfg. warranty expired (needless to say...I definitely had to take it in then). They had to order some sort of plate to fix it (he mentioned it was some sort of kit). They told me they would have just replaced the window (as they had them in stock) but I have tint on them so they couldn't. So...you may not be able to fix it without this kit. Hope this helps.

bigmike5 · March 2002

If you can talk em into putting the graphite paint on a Special I might want to order one too.

kosh_2258 · March 2002

glennbp: I agree with you 110%. The Special is my 3rd LH. My 93 Vision TSi only had a chronic problem with the door check bushings. My 98 Intrepid was trouble free for the duration. So far the Special has surfaced no problems.
I owned an 87 BMW 325i, but not for long. It had a nasty warm start problem that the dealer never did fix plus various leaks and other problems. Not very "Ultimate" in my book.

Blonda, 10-4 on the tranny. If you want the car to respond you have to teach it. The Special, with the lower final drive, gets up and moves just fine with only part throttle but I have taught it to kick down under 3/4 throttle.

BigMike5; Yep, a few more colors and offer the cladding in contrasting colors to the body. Remember the 300M Special prototype? Sapphire Blue with gold cladding. So Gold with Blue, Silver with Black, Silver with Gray, Red with Gold...

General observation: Someone here need to find a different dealer to work on their car, one that can actually FIX the problems. Constantly going back to the same, obviously incompetent, dealership and enduring the frustration is quite silly.

mboomgarden · March 2002

You made an interesting point that I overlooked, regarding the transmission's "learning" mode. I don't know how long it takes the transmission to learn a new shift map, but it does definitely make a difference if you drive it more aggressively--the shift points increase and it appears to downshift more readily in response to throttle input. If you baby the engine, the car will reward you with lower performance.

laurasdada · March 2002

Platinum 300M. 33,500 miles. A couple of known '99 issues, but still a beauty.

rstilp · March 2002

Isn't this the same M that was almost totaled? I remember your description of the accident and aftermath of the car sitting outside bodyshop with no rear window in the rain. I would think if it has all of these problems, I would be camping on the front door of the repair shop.
Have you talked to them about all this stuff? Has your mother?

drpixel · March 2002

Can you send me your screen name (to home email..) for the msn chatroom Roger set up? Annying thing is unless he opens the room, it doesn't exist (as he's the administratator).....look forward to having you onboard, geezer......

Doc

99_300m_ric_va · March 2002

Doc,

MSN? What's going on?

sirharper · March 2002

VERY WELL SAID!

I appreciate the fact that you took the time to explain things so well. I fear my own tendancy is to respond is less tactful. I am sure that this is partly fueled by the fact that when it comes to DC build quality there are so many ignorant and so little time. I'm on my 5tth, 6th, and wife makes 7th DC product currently and never a serious problem with any.

99_300m_ric_va · March 2002

Anyone wanna chat tonite?

http://communities.msn.com/Chrysler300MOwners/chat

beach15 · March 2002

It's not the body shop that's repsonsible for the problems we're having. Yeah, bad damage was done and they took their time and put everything back into the condition it was in the day before the wreck. All the problems we're having now existed before the rear-ender, all that is, except the wipers that no one can fix. In a wreck, a lot of havoc takes place on a car, but ours was demonized beforehand!

Thanks for chiming in though!

-beach

beach15 · March 2002

Has anyone found or heard any new information on the 300N yet? It's sounding like a hot car, especially with a Hemi and an MB trans. in it! I can't wait to see the first spy pic as it'll probably be even more beautiful than the M, though it will be a hard thing to do!

pat · March 2002

That's very odd - please email our Consumer Services Manager, Jonah Brown, at jbrown@edmunds.com. It would be good if you could tell him what you posted, and tell him exactly the response you received.

Please follow through with this - what you report is not at all the usual and we need to look into it.

Thanks!

Pat
Host
Sedans Message Board

nc300m · March 2002

I had my dual exhaust installed today and never dreamed that a 6 cylinder could rumble so nicely.
The added pep is also impressive.

Should I disconnect my battery like I have heard on this board of M owners doing.
What does this do?

beach15 · March 2002

Congrats on the new "meaner" M! What tips did you use? As for the battery, yeah, I think it may help in letting certain settings of the car reset themselves by learning with the new added power.

glennbp · March 2002

You don't have to disconnect the battery as the ECU will adapt and adjust in a short time all by itself. If you do decide to disconnect your battery to speed the process, leave it disconnected for about 10 minutes, but remember all other battery dependent settings will be lost also.

easyrider300m · March 2002

youse members who did the duals---where did you get the parts---over the internet or auto parts store?---anyone do all stainless---how much was the total bottom line?

got to get me some duals!

nc300m · March 2002

I used T815 Ractive tips (6" wide 3" tall and 10" long) these are the first type I have seen on the dual setup for the M, most have used the dual tips on each side. I must say they look mean as hell.

Used a Magna flow and a dynomax muffler.

Total cost $291.00

easyrider300m · March 2002

I think its time you go buy a gallon of gas and a book of matches---just dump it and move on--dont think you or your mother will ever be happy with your car---all makes have some lemons--guess you have one

My Y2k is 2 years old with 30K on the dial--I had numerous very minor stuff covered under warranty but all in all, its a great car and I look forward to the next 50,000 miles---

I will seriously consider the 300N when its released--if I dont like it, I may jump on the 2003 or else buy a 2005 Seville STS!

scotian · March 2002

http://public.fotki.com/Scotian/300m/engine/engine/transmission_fuse.html

easyrider300m · March 2002

who did the install--any probs with the cutout-did you do the cutout

300michael · March 2002

Put me in the non disconnect group too. The system learns very quickly just take it out for a short drive. If you are in the city the learning will mostly be done before 15 minuets of driving. If you have done any mods to the intake or exhaust the control modual is already set closer to the conditions you are having, then to reset it back to totally stock conditions.

300michael · March 2002

From the few pictures I have seen, the 300M is going to be a better looker then the N. At least the Hemi C looked good. (although I still like the M's headlamps more then the Hemi C's. I was disapointed to here that the designer of the TT is now designing Chryslers. I never liked the TT's looks, it is hard to tell what is the front and what is the back. It seems GM got the best of Chryslers designers, plus Lutz.

300michael · March 2002

Because the way Chrysler tends to change things. I remember that after a year, they changed the arm rest, shift boot, white gauges, leather, colors, sound deadening, and a few other little things. Maybe even a six speed auto will come out. (sorry guys no manual for me).

sdmike2 · March 2002

Post pictures! I saw the single oval tip set-up on the startech M at the SD auto show and it looked great. Sounds like you used the same mufflers as me, and I agree that for a V6 it has a nice note to it. As for the computer, I disconnected my battery at the auxiliary positive terminal at the top of the engine. All systems seemed to shut down during the couple of hours that I left it there, but when I hooked it back up I noticed that my radio and seat still remembered their settings! I'm not sure it I got the computer or not. Either way, I didn't notice any difference in gas mileage or performance as a result of the disconnect. Also, I immediately developed an intermittant starter problem (would "click" several times before finally starting) that was traced to a loose wire (so they say...but I claim they were TIGHT when I was done) at the positive terminal. Sooooo...I guess the short story is that disconnecting it may require a lot of effort if it needs to be done down on the hidden battery, AND it introduces the possibility of electrical system issues. Don't bother.

99_300m_ric_va · March 2002

Yes removing that battery terminal does reset the computer. The radio and seat appearently store settings in a EEPROM so it doesn't get lost. Normally I remove the NEGATIVE auxilary terminal. It's safer since you don't have to worry about touching any grounded surface and shorting things out with your rachet or wrench.

As far as removing the battery connection for tranny relearning, Scotian has shown us the TCM fuse that can be removed for a little while and accomplish that without shocking the rest of the electrical system by disconnecting the battery.

Chrysler 300M

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