Chrysler 300M

blonda · April 2002

Doesn't sound too hard -- those might help if I feel brave. But I still don't have pictures. Okay, who wants to disassemble their M and take pictures for me????

sdmike2 · April 2002

How about we disassemble YOUR car and take pictures of it?

Come over when I get my caliper paint and we'll have a paint and plug party. FYI, I'll have the resume to you by Monday.

mrl859 · April 2002

The difference is the offset. Front wheel drive cars have a drastically different offset than rear wheel drive cars, as a rule. Most rear wheel drive wheels would have the tire/wheel sticking out much too far on most FWD cars.

grunschev · April 2002

As I understand it, the difference in wheels for RWD vs FWD is the offset. But you should have no trouble finding wheels you like for this car. I had a choice of thousands, but unknowingly cheated -- the place I got my wheels has their own machine shop and get most of their wheels as "blanks" and custom fit them to the car.

There are two reasons to lower a car. First is for performance -- the lowering springs are typically stiffer, thus reducing weight transfer under cornering, braking, and acceleration; and since the car is lower it has a lower center of gravity. (Note that you will get a much stiffer ride, too!)

The second reason is cosmetic. With plus sized wheels, the sidewall of the tire is much smaller making the proportions look strange. Due to an optical illusion, the gap between the tire and the fender looks bigger. Lower the car to reduce the gap.

I took my car to a suspension specialist to install the lowering springs. If you lower the car, be sure to get a four wheel alignment at the same time.

I seem to be one of the few that didn't experience problems with lowering the car. I didn't have to install a camber kit and I didn't have to change the motor mounts to correct the angle of the drive train. Speaking of this, does anybody know if the Special has any corrective pieces to handle the lower springs? If not, why would anybody else's need them?

Igor

sdmike2 · April 2002

Overall I'm very happy with how it went. I have a couple of areas where the parts (or the installation) could have been better, but I think it looks great. I decided to remove the radio console and it made life a LOT easier in my opinion. Pictures a little later.

M

sdmike2 · April 2002

Well, I guess I was wrong. Thanks for the correction, guys. MRL...ltns! Where you been hiding?

kimies · April 2002

Thanks Scott for the clock face..plan to put it in this weekend.

sdmike2...nice play house..lucky kids.

sdmike2 · April 2002

Here are about 30 pictures of the process and results. http://www.ritchiefamily.com/car/woodtrim/. For a quick look, here's one of the "after" pictures: http://www.ritchiefamily.com/car/woodtrim/17-full_console_after4.jpg

sdmike2 · April 2002

Here are the leftovers if anyone needs any of these parts. http://www.ritchiefamily.com/car/woodtrim/36-leftovers.jpg

blonda · April 2002

Looks good. I'm jealous...I wish I had burlwood, it's so much prettier than the rosewood "plood"

I just snagged you a really detailed job description -- check your email.

sdmike2 · April 2002

Got it. Thanks. Sounds like my job description from my last two jobs! Maybe there's a shot here. My only reluctance is the international travel....but I'll have to think on that one. I really appreciate your effort on this. By the way, did you get all three containers that I dropped off?

beach15 · April 2002

Just because I'm bored, I pulled these 3 messages off the Acura TL-S board after posting a message about someone's thoughts on the 300M. Start with the first and then read on:

#942 of 964 beach15 by mattanders1 Apr 04, 2002 (02:26 pm)
I could tell you that the 300M engine was harsh, and that the fit and finish weren't as good, but, in truth, it just reminds me too much a salesman's fleet car. Also, I don't know anyone under 50 that owns one.
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#943 of 964 mattanders1- by fastdriver Apr 04, 2002 (02:31 pm)
mattanders1-

You live WHERE? What is like there now? Still scary? I just happened to click on your profile to see if you used to own a 300M too and saw your place of residence. Do you have your TL there with you? Those roads must be a good test of quality! ;-))

Harsh engine? The first I floored my 300M, I thought the engine was going to come through the hood! I didn't do that too often.

fastdriver
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#944 of 964 by ruski Apr 04, 2002 (07:04 pm)
Beach, I did not have any problems with my 300M during the 3-year lease, except the engine speed sensor that needed to be replaced a couple of times (less than an hour for the replacement)

The tranny failure on my TL-S really made me lose confidence in Honda quality. Add to that my friend whose Accord's tranny failed... he would push the gas pedal and the car would roll back on an incline. How about that?

Also I don't think I am driving my car too aggressively. Certainly not any more aggressively than my 96 Buick Riviera or 98 Pontiac Grand Prix GTP or the 99 Chrysler 300M. All those cars had no problem with my driving habits. If anything I drove them more aggressively and faster than the TL-S because I am still babying my TL-S.

If an Acura is not supposed to be driven like many other cars, then it must be designed for sissies and grannies.

It's just like saying that someone's SUV broke because they took it off road. If they hadn't it would have been OK.

Ruski. 30 y.o.
who loved to floor his 300M engine.
__________________________________________________

Okay, so what do you all have to say?! I must concur with the fit & finish and "a salesman's fleet car", but would actually have to disagree with the engine harshness. Yeah, it did have a sort of "gruffness" to it and really didn't feel all that powerful, but when it was punched to pass or just go flying, boy did I love that growl! I've never liked cars that have silent engines (only under acceleration that is!). Creamy smoothness, a silken & quick transmission, and no knocking or chatter at idle are givens, but don't we all like a little tough growl when stepping into it?

Oh well, just can't wait to see your replies!

sdmike2 · April 2002

Why are you posting 300M questions on an Acura board? Probably the same reason you keep posting Avalanche opinions on a 300M board.

blonda · April 2002

Yeah I got all the "stuff" -- I was running out of the Quick Detailer so it will come in handy so I can wipe all the fingerprints you left all over my car! (just kidding).

I don't think that position requires tons of Int'l travel, but think of how fun it will be to explain to your wife how boreing Amsterdam is.

beach15 · April 2002

I know exactly what you mean about Domestic vs. Import engines. I love the American "growl" in some but also am starting to like the Import "turbine-like" smoothness and power. Ahh, who cares, it's all in what you like!

300kam · April 2002

Grunschev,
Thank you for the info, guess I need to lower the car for wider wheel. But lowering the car has potential problem. Sound to me this depends on the suspension specialist.
I once saw a lowered wider wheel 99-00' 300M in San Jose on Coleman, wow, how macho it is! By any chance, is the owner in this board?

Muskateer, sound very easy to replace the spark plugs, why Bosch+4 needs no gapping? What happen if the plug comes with bigger gap by chance?

Can somebody tell me why spark plugs can make the difference?

glennbp · April 2002

These plugs do not need a gap adjustment because the "4 prongs" are in a radial pattern around the head of the plug. Essentially there is nothing to adjust. Spark plugs that fire with a "hotter and more predictable spark" ignites the fuel-air mixture more completely which results in more power. The Bosch platinum design does this very well which is why switching to them increases power and efficiency.

mrl859 · April 2002

I'm always here reading. I just don't write unless I have something meaningful to add.

drpixel · April 2002

I think David Dawley is working on some stuff for the Woodward Dream Cruise...please be patient (..to ALL WDC folks....) while the addition to our website is in the construction phase.....)

Still blinking Doc.....

sdmike2 · April 2002

That's where we differ. I post whether I have anything constructive to say or not. lol!

beach15 · April 2002

Where are the Avalanche opinions, huh? I posted once about what it was like and then the discussion died off after a day as it should. Does Bob (fastdriver) not include little tidbits of info. on how his CL-S is doing at the end of his posts every so often? We traded an M in for an Avalanche, I posted what it was like.

Oh, and the reason why I posted on the TL-S board in the first place was because the guy who made the first post I showed mentioned the 300M as one of the cars he tested before buying his new Acura. I asked him what his impressions were just to be curious and see what he thought of it, having decided to get the Acura.
__________________________________________________

On another note, wow, does that wood kit look great in Big Red!! I sometimes wish we had just gotten a '01 with the real timber instead and maybe we'd still have an M. Your car looks so much better than our Agate did with the cheap plood. Anymore mod's planned...?

sdmike2 · April 2002

Just picked up a copy of the June 19, 2002 Consumer Reports...their annual auto issue. The 00 and 01 M's received outstanding scores on their reliability ratings, and the 99 only had issues ina couple of areas. Here is the table showing the scores. The range is from solid black (many trouble spots) to solid red (few troubles). The solid white is "average". The overall red check at the bottom means "Better-than-average overall reliability".

http://www.ritchiefamily.com/car/consumer.jpg

On a slightly down note, CU lists the 99 M as a "used car to avoid". No details provided. Probably because of its two black marks in the table.

300kam · April 2002

sdmike, good job, I have luxury option also, definitely your looks better now, I like especially the overhead console piece. Do you have that piece left over? :-)

sdmike2 · April 2002

Heck, I didn't even plan THESE mods!

sdmike2 · April 2002

Thanks. The only pieces I have left over are an extra shifter console (with a small defect), the glove box handle, and the AC vent trim. I managed to use everything else, except the thin strips for beside the stereo console which I'm cutting up for samples. The overhead console piece is my favorite too.

sdmike2 · April 2002

What a surprise. My 96 Grand Caravan scores very low on...drumroll please...transmission! It's also in the dumper on A/C, engine, electrical system, body integrity (rattles & fit), power equipment and body hardware. Yikes.

glennbp · April 2002

You could be drivin a 95 Concorde!

sdmike2 · April 2002

I think the only thing worse than that is the 94 Intrepid! Only one hint of red (exhaust) and 12 black marks!

kosh_2258 · April 2002

I've had my wheels off and can tell you they are plastic pop in's similar to what DC uses on their other alloys. The hole diameter measure roughly 1 7/8" on the wheel (I measured the spare).

sdmike2 · April 2002

How long did the process take you?

easyrider300m · April 2002

could someone post a pic of the center cap on the Special---what color is it---I like the design of the center cap on the Caravan but dont like the color---Gold---I have a silver M and would like to see a silver and black center cap with the 300M logo

easyrider300m · April 2002

yes it looks like silver and black--I just wonder if its chromed or silver painted like the wheel for the Special--wonder if it will fit the razorstar wheels---anyone have a better pic?

http://www.chrysler.com/300m/exterior/gallery.html#target1

videoman1 · April 2002

Well, after checking the internet and seeing what you and Blonda have done with your trim, I think I'll go with the Joshua Tree package. It's $100 or so more, but in the grand scheme of things, I'll probably own the car for 6 or 7 years and will kick myself if I don't get the extra pieces like the overhead console.

I'll let you know how it goes.

On a side note, my Tornado Air is on it's way as we speak...or should I say as I type. I'll post pictures and give results when it's installed.

ruski · April 2002

It seems that 300M's tranny has done pretty well considering Chrysler's transmission reliability history of the past.

You know, nowadays transmission is my weak spot, now that I don't drive a 300M anymore.

In my case that praised Japanese turbine-like pulling sensation only lasted for 6,100 miles, then the tranny almost got me in a serious jam and needed to be replaced. Now every time I drive I am afraid it is going to happen again.

ruski · April 2002

I don't really care about CR. They should stick to their day job of rating toasters.

But it is still nice to see that they rated 300M so well (which I am pretty sure went against their own import-biased priciples)

Maybe now people will start bying more 300Ms and Otto will get busy again.

sdmike2 · April 2002

If you go back a couple of pages you'll see a long-winded post by me about trim retailers and manufacturers. In there I name another company that seems to sell the same kit as Joshua Tree but for a little cheaper. However, I want to stress how pleased I am with JT's customer service. Great response to questions and immediate "no questions asked" replacement of a faulty part. A+ in my book. Might be worth the extra money.

glennbp · April 2002

The K&N Aircharger is definitely a plus and a breeze to install. No special tools and about 20 minutes. The kit is complete with great instructions as well. Is there a big difference in performance? No, but I feel that with all the "small" mods together, there is an overall increase. BTW - thanks for the spark plug tutorial; I pulled my plugs to check them, it was a lot easier than I thought. The aircharger part# is 63-1029 and

http://www.martelbros.com

has the best price.

videoman1 · April 2002

I did read your "long-winded" yet very appreciated post about the different manufacturers. I'll stick with Joshua Tree because of the customer service you and Blonda have been talking about. The $25 savings isn't worth possible hassles if there's a problem.

sdmike2 · April 2002

The repair ratings published by CR for all products, not just cars, are developed from surveys sent to subscribers/members. I used to subscribe and have filled out probably a half dozen gigantic surveys about everything from cars to toasters to vacuum cleaners. I agree that their "reviews" have always seemed biased, but I consider their repair survey to be a good source of information about the quality of products.

Anyway, you'll be happy to hear that they rate the CL pretty high in reliability and customer satisfaction, and their reliability history for the '01 is similar to the M.

videoman1 · April 2002

OK, stupid question number 1:

Let's say you're using the autostick to slow down and you shift it from 3rd to 2nd. This obviously increase the RPMs. Are you using any extra gas even if your foot is off of the gas pedal?

Stupid question number 2:

When car magazines do their 0-60 times, do they sit at a standstill and then tramp on the gas, or do they keep their foot on the brake while giving it gas to get the RPMs up, then take their foot off the brake and go? And do they always take it up to the red line before shifting?

300michael · April 2002

answers to stupid questions.
#1. It uses more gas (an extreamly small amount at first) then less since, like you said your foot is off the gas. So over all the answer is less gas.
For the hi performance cars they tend to ride the brakes while giving the gas to get the rpms up. It does help a little. Something simular to the catapults on the Carriers. (brakes are on while hitting the after burners).

300michael · April 2002

To get wider tires you do not have to lower the car. I think you misunderstood Grunschev. Say you have the standard 225/55 17" 225 is in mm so the tire is 8.78" wide and the 55 is the % of the height, or 225mm X .55= 123.75mm heigh, or 4.78" heigh. Going to a 245/45 18" tire from a stock 17" the tire maintaines the same radius or total diameter. 245*45=110mm side wall plus the extra half inch for the rim radius of 12.5mm+110=122.5mm, so you see that the tire is nearly the same (-1mm)yet the tire is wider by 20mm or .75" you can go even larger wheels with smaller side walls and wider tires. But the ride will suffer more as you increase the wheel size. Handling will improve but 0-60 time will suffer due to the heavyer wheel/tire combos.
This concludes tire clinic 101 for today.

300michael · April 2002

You brought up a good point, about the special. I do not think it has special mounts due to the only one inch lowering. Most of the after market springs lower between 1.3" and 1.8". So they would be better served there. Did you have the PHP/PHG package on your M? I will have to ask the dealer when I discuss the struts, about that.

easyrider300m · April 2002

I noticed something weird about the defroster pattern yesterday. YOu will notice on the rear window that the defroster wires are closely spaced on the bottom then there area about 3 more widely spaced wires and then at the very top 4inches there are a series of very heavy closely spaced thicker lines.

Last nite the defroster was on and I noticed that the top 6 inches or so would not defrost. The whole area of the thicker series of lines on the top edge do not defrost and the few inches of more widely spaced lines does not defrost.

My question is: is the entire window area supposed to completely defrost or is it normal for the upper 5 inches or so to remain undefrosted. My warranty is running out soon and I want to get this covered if its a defect? Could someone check their defrost pattern next time they use the defroster?

fastdriver · April 2002

easyrider300m-

IF I remember correctly, my rear defogger only cleared the middle section of the window. The other wires are the radio antenna. Someone here will check.

fastdriver

bigmike5 · April 2002

Hey Beach--Local paper here in L-ville area is advertising a new 2002 Avalanche for $24,990, which is $6K off the sticker price. What did ya'll have to spend?

kosh_2258 · April 2002

Ah, that picture shows an "enhanced item".

The cap is all chrome with raised "300 M" lettering, no black lettering. the "M" is below the "300"

Sorry, no picture to post since I don't have a digital camera (yet!). Maybe Arby500 can put up a pic of his.

cmyers300m · April 2002

Those are you radio antenna wires in the rear window.

fuzzywuzzy · April 2002

No man, Stay where you are we don't want your kind down here

Might bring that christine curse to my Acura, it already hit Ruski

http://community.webshots.com/user/jasontalbot

ruski · April 2002

dealers in South Florida don't even keep PHP 300Ms on their lots. I doubt they will have any Specials. The clientelle here likes soft and cushy ride.

Chrysler 300M

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