Edmunds dealer partner, Bayway Leasing, is now offering transparent lease deals via these forums. Click here to see the latest vehicles!

Toyota Sienna Maintenance and Repair (2003 earlier)

1293032343572

Comments

  • deg856deg856 Member Posts: 120
    I'm a Sienna owner myself and I have no incentive to side with the manufacturer. I'm just hoping someone can clarify this issue for the rest of us who don't have sludge. Does any one of you (with sludge problems) go to Toyota dealer exclusively for oil changes? Is there anybody out there who goes to Toyota dealers for all services based on the recommended intervals and still gets sludge in the engine? I'd like to know how many of the 3000+ vehicles with sludge problem fall into this category. On the other hand, if it turns out that only vehicles serviced by non-Toyota garages have the sludge problem, would you agree, then, that the problem is with the service, but not with the car?

    If you went to an outside brake shop to get the brakes services, and one-month later the brakes failed and you crashed the car, is Toyota or the brake shop responsible? It's not that clear-cut, is it?

    Forget about the receipts for a minute. Do you personally know for a fact that your mechanics actually did what you paid for? Have you ever checked the dipstick after an oil change, and then re-check periodically, to make sure that the oil is clean and there is no early signs of abnormalities? If the oil is always reasonably clean looking, then where is the sludge coming from? If you're just interested in getting receipts, I'll gladly sell you all the receipts you want for $10 a piece. Getting sludge is a bad deal, but it's no excuse to make accusations without proof.

    San Jose, CA
  • navyairnavyair Member Posts: 202
    Blowing dust/dirt off brakes almost never works. Very occasionally, IF you made a panic stop somewhere to avoid banging into someone, then lightly sanding pads to remove a heat induce glaze on the brake pads, and then cleaning up residual dust/dirt will work.

    Brake pads are as different as tires. Some are soft, and wear out fast, others hard and last a long time. If you feel a vibration when you are braking to a stop, chances are that heat build up when you were braking sometime (panic stop, or not) has warped your rotors (the surface that brake pads press against to stop you). IF you are lucky, mechanic can "turn" them or cut out the warp and re-round them. If not, or if they have warped more than once, chances are, he/she will recommend replacement of the rotors.

    If you've made a hard stop lately, and then feel a vibration when you stop next time, brakes are working OK. However, eventually, you will have to replace rotors. Although dealer prices are steep for replacement, the independent brake shops usually are OK. Caveat Emptor.

    r/JC

    mechanic's son
  • cliffy1cliffy1 Member Posts: 3,581
    One other thing I suggest besides checking the oil after an oil change is to mark your oil filter. Use a grease pencil on the top just prior to bringing it in. When they are done with it, check to make sure a new filter is in place. This is a very simple way to keep the shop honest.
  • jeproxjeprox Member Posts: 466
    i hear you loud and clear.
    i had this incident with my toyota dealer early last year and its why i stopped taking my van to them for service.

    i posted the story before but i'll post it again. i took my van to the dealer for one of its routine maintenance service. the service calls for oil/filter change, check brakes, check horn, lights, check this and check that. at that time, i had my snow tires installed and it was around march/april. after service was done, went home and decided i want to take off my snows and put back my regular all-season. well, well, well... 3 out of 4 wheels were seized-up and won't come off due to the salt/rust build-up between the rim and brake drum. one of the wheels, it took me more than 30mins to remove!

    now, as the service states - check brakes. if they had removed my wheels to check my brakes - i wouldnt be having such a hard time removing them,would i? so this tells me the mechanic didnt check my brakes at all! since it was fairly new and low mileage - he "guess-timated" my brake pad/shoe wear. i was so mad/upset that i paid them over C$130 for the service and it wasnt done properly!

    days later, one of their reps gave me a courtesy call to see how the service was. i started to tell her about my brakes. i told her if my brakes fail coz they didnt check it - i will be down in her office with my lawyer!! at that point, she offered to have another look at my van free of charge but i declined the offer and gave her some nasty comments! from that day on, i only take my van to the dealer for services that i cannot perform myself and i mark everything that i know needs replacing or removed for service! crooked dealers!
  • joe1948joe1948 Member Posts: 8
    All the info on the internet has made me very nervous about my 98 Sienna. I have 47,000 miles trouble free miles so far. I usually drive my vehicles until they have 150,000 to 200,000 miles. I checked my oil fill opening, started probing around and sure enough found a small layer of a dark gritty substance. Now I was very worried. I pulled the front valve cover and was pleased to find everything spotless, camshaft, lobes, gears, all the upper head area. The inside of the valve cover was darker and slighty varnished, but no sludge or gelled oil. I change my own oil and have done so every 3 to 5,000 miles with conventional and synthetic oils. Where did the dark grit come from? I have no idea. It seems to be limited to that one small area. I now plan to keep this vehicle but my question is should I use conventional oil with 3,000 mile drains or Mobil 1 for 5,000 runs? Thanks for any replys.
  • bob57bob57 Member Posts: 302
    You're going to get 20 different opinions on that (and so he offers his opinion...)
    I say keep doing what you're doing. You don't have the "horrible sludge" and there's nothing that says you will. Just keep changing the oil like you mentioned - in my opinion :))
  • dardson1dardson1 Member Posts: 696
    What a nice feeling it is that I traded out of my 01 Sienna a few days ago. No more worries about getting that oil changed on the dot and only at the Toyota dealer. No more greasing the sliders to stop the flexing groan, no more phantom noises coming from the rear suspension, and no more trying to get the service rep to explain why my rear brakes whine when there's 90% of the brake shoes left. In the 35 years I've been driving one car after another I've NEVER heard of engine sludge til I got that Toyota. Not since 1966 have I had a car that had brakes the squeal every time I roll into an intersection. Maybe these are GREAT cars but you coulda fooled me. I wish you all luck and continued happiness driving these "perfect" automobiles. I, for one, have come to believe the emperor has no clothes.
  • bb8bb8 Member Posts: 60
    Definitely there will be a spot of doubt in the back of the buyer's mind when a purchasing decision is made. Toyota need to prove to us the real core problem and the real solution to this engine sludge problem, the PR thing make me wonder should I trust Toyota again and continue to purchase their new/used vehicles with a higher premium, the answer is "NO", Toyota's engine design's fault is not the consumer's fault, when the problem finally emerged, the PR gesture of "Goodwill" thing makes me wonder if the Toyota owners are those homeless dude standing in front of Salvation Army waiting for their dinners, the consumers are not going to pay ten of thousands of dollars for a 1997-2001 used Toyota to inherit a known problem without a straightforward explanation of the problem, satisfied fixes, and the report of the testing of the new fixes.
    I see row of Toyota in the Dealer lot, yes, I'm shopping, Will I walk in? Hell No!
  • cliffy1cliffy1 Member Posts: 3,581
    Simply amazing. The problem is improper maintenance. The solution is proper maintenance. I've spoken to some well placed people at Toyota and they are a bit baffled by all of this. All their research indicates that Toyota is not experiencing any more "sludge" problems than any other maker. The .1% figure is well within industry averages. What is baffling to them is why they are getting crucified and the other manufacturers are not.

    I told them my theory. It is a two fold problem. First is that customers have a higher level of expectation of Toyota. The next is that they were unfortunate enough to sell cars (or vans) to a few loud people who feel they are owed something. On this issue, Toyota is no better or worse than anybody else, but it has been owner reaction that is very different.

    The SPA is genuinely a goodwill gesture. They didn't have to do it. Every arbitration I know about agrees that Toyota is not responsible for these engine failures. Toyota has voluntarily chosen to pay for repairs in a number of cases. They are also the only manufacturer I know of to actually post in this, or any other forum. Show me where a corporate representative of Daimler Chrysler has ever had anything to say here at Edmunds.
  • jj35jj35 Member Posts: 283
    Another article.


    http://www.caranddriver.com/xp/Caranddriver/dai/2002/february/20020211_dai_toyota.xml


    In earlier press releases, Toyota said that they mailed the letter to 3.3 million owners of 1997 - 2001 Siennas, Highlanders, Celicas, Solaras, Avalons, Camry's, Lexus RX-300s, and Lexus ES-300s, however everyone who I know who has not experienced sludge has not received their letter. Are there any people here who did not experience sludge and have received the letter? Just curious.

  • cliffy1cliffy1 Member Posts: 3,581
    The letters are going out in batches. The first batch was to people known to have had problems. The rest will be going out in waves. Toyota only has so many people to handle the phone calls and this prevents them for getting flooded. Everybody will get them eventually.
  • bb8bb8 Member Posts: 60
    Oh! I see, those Toyota well placed people have their asses sitting on the altars for too long, they lost touch with the reality, no wander they are baffled by all of this.
    The problem is improper maintenance: Tell me if the maintenance is/was done by the dealer, Ha, Ha! may be you guys are putting your own stingy shoes right into your own mouths again, and then blame the consumers for improper maintenance, consumers are all suckers, I guess from the Toyota point of view, a recall is a recall, just don't come up with a weird terms like: good will, improper maintenance etc., oh! let Toyota reminds your guys how to change oil, right, I owned 3 cars and they ran over 200k miles when I get rid of them, right, don't tell me I can't read the schedule maintenance table.
  • cliffy1cliffy1 Member Posts: 3,581
    Sorry, I thought you had a serious comment. I apologize for trying to address your concerns. I'll not make that mistake again.
  • john339john339 Member Posts: 229
    WHAT AM I MISSING???

    WHY DOES TOYOTA HAVE TO HAVE A "SPECIAL" PROGRAM TO REIMBURSE A CUSTOMER FOR AN ENGINE FAILURE THAT OCCURS DURING THE WARRANTY PERIOD WHEN THE CUSTOMER HAS PROPERLY MAINTAINED THE VEHICLE??? ISNT THAT WHAT A WARRANTY IS SUPPOSED TO COVER??? WHY DOES TOYOTA CONSIDER THIS GOING THE EXTRA MILE???

    WHY HAVEN'T THEY HONORED THEIR WARRANTY IN THE PAST???

    THE QUESTION IS WHY WOULDN'T TOYOTA PAY FOR AN ENGINE FALIURE DURING THE WARRANTY PERIOD FOR A CUSTOMER WHO MAINTAINED THE VEHICLE PER THE TOYOTA RECOMMENDATIONS?

    IT ALL MAKES YOU WONDER HOW COMMITTED TOYOTA IS TO THE CUSTOMER!!!
  • mcgregermcgreger Member Posts: 40
    I was wondering just what is(was) included in the Tow Package option that was on my '01 Sienna. I checked through the entire manual and there is no mention of it, even in the towing section. Is it a tranny cooler, an aux. engine oil cooler, both or neither? I did find something that mention it included something about revised fan speed logic, I presume to make up for the increased temperatures while towing-but nothing about what other components were included with the option. I also remember seeing it on every '01 Sienna that I looked at-CE, LE, and XLE. I've also noticed that is also included on every V6 '02 Sienna and Highlander(at least around here). Does anyone know when the Tow Package option was first included on new Siennas and would this have any effect on decreasing the possibility of developing oil sludge, even with oil changes on average at 3500 miles? To Dardson 1; I am curious how you made out on trading in or selling your '01 Sienna and what did you replace it with?
  • cliffy1cliffy1 Member Posts: 3,581
    Now you're taxing my memory. I've been off the sales floor for a few months now so let me see if I can remember. I'm nearly positive it includes a transmission oil cooler. The engine oil cooler is standard.
  • innovationsinnovations Member Posts: 69
    "Now you're taxing my memory ... includes a transmission oil cooler. The engine oil cooler is standard. "

    Cliffy? Didn't it start showing up on most of the Siennas to assist with the transmission and possibly to alleviate the problem that occured with a few of the 2000 models that went out in a bad production run in the summer of 2000? ..sometime end of 2000, the towing package became standard.. does that sound right??
  • john339john339 Member Posts: 229
    what bad Sienna production run are you talking about? is this related to the engine failure problem? does the oil cooler you mention solve the engine failure problem?
  • cliffy1cliffy1 Member Posts: 3,581
    Actually, 100% of the Siennas we ever saw here in the Central Atlantic Region had the TO option, starting in '98. It took a factory order to avoid it from the very beginning. The torque converter problem in 2000 was unrelated.
  • rudy2000rudy2000 Member Posts: 32
    I bought my 2001 Sienna XLE in September 2001. I don’t drive my Sienna much, just short trips around town. In light of the engine’s probability to sludging, short trips must be extra hard on the engine. Now my Sienna is just six-months old and has 1350 miles on the OD. I changed the oil and filter last weekend.
    I’ve been reading Town Hall for several months but I haven’t come to any consensus about this sludging problem. Now my questions. Has anyone who changed their oil every four to six months or 3,000 miles experienced sludge? Is the sludging related to climate? How many of you had the dealer perform oil changes and still got sludge? What was the mileage and time frame between service? I still plan to change my own oil, even after allot of you said take it to the dealer. I know, I know, but I hate dealing with those service reps. So, in conclusion, if I change my oil often, say every four months or three thousand miles, which ever is first, can I expect a sludge-free engine? Thanks in advance, Rudy
  • cliffy1cliffy1 Member Posts: 3,581
    You are what I would call a "tweener" in that your driving is certainly "severe" because of the short trips, yet you put very few miles on it. You are smart to pay attention to time (6 months) rather than miles. You will *probably* be fine continuing with 6 month oil change intervals, but you may want to play it safe and switch to 4 months.
  • davedave1davedave1 Member Posts: 45
    On my 2k Sienna, the tranny cooler was 'standard' option; there was a separate line item on the sticker, retail of about $110, which included a tranny aux. oil cooler and 'revised' cooling logic. The aux cooler is just in front of the left front wheel well fender liner and the tranny fluid flows to the radiator tranny cooler and then the aux cooler, then back to the tranny. I believe the revised cooling logic means that the transmission fluid temperature is monitored by the computer more closely and signals a cooling fan to start if the tranny get hot even if the engine temp is ok. All to presumably help keep the tranny from overheating given the weight of the van, towing, etc. All in all not a bad setup. The tranny works hard in these vans so it's a good good idea to change the tranny fluid regularly even though it is not specifically a maintenence item. As stated earlier, the tranny problems in 2000 (torque converter part problem) were unrelated.
    The sludge issue MAY be connected with high engine operating temps., but this is not clear. THe engine on top of the tranny adds to heat build up in the tranny case and such may have led Toyota to install the cooling package as a matter of practice.
  • johnmcdanjohnmcdan Member Posts: 27
    Clffy1,

    You seem to be familiar with the sludge issue. Are you aware of any cases before the SPA was initiated where a customer was able to get an engine repaired after agreeing to sign a non-disclosure agreement? One person I have communicated with signed an NDA in order to settle with Toyota.

    Thanks, j mcd
  • john339john339 Member Posts: 229
    can someone give more information on the transmission problems with the 2000 Sienna? it has been mentioned in a couple posts now but details not provided.
  • john339john339 Member Posts: 229
    did a search on the NHTSA site and found 32 records of transmission problems with the 2000 Sienna. Many of those records are for transmissions failing. Is this what you guys are talking about?
  • john339john339 Member Posts: 229
    can't seem to link the whole search but here is one of the records.

    TRANSMISSION WENT OUT AT 75 MPH/TACHOMETER WENT TO ZERO, AND ENGINE KEPT RUNNING. DEALER INFORMED CONSUMER THAT SHE WAS # 49 ON WAITING LIST FOR A TRANSMISSION WHICH WAS ON BACK ORDER. *AK

    the link is too long for edmunds, you have to cut and paste the whole address.

    http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/problems/complain/ComplaintsSum.cfm?
    odino=883438&make= TOYOTA%20TRUCK&model=SIENNA&year=2000
  • catcher09catcher09 Member Posts: 7
    After reading this post about Sienna owners having sludge problem, I wonder if these owners are using conventional motor oil and changed their oil at every 7,500 miles or 6 months interval?

    Does anyone using 100% synthetic (not blend) motor oil and changed their oil at above stated interval also experiencing engine sludge problem?

    I have a 2001 Sienna and I had my first oil change at 2K. I replaced with Mobil 1 oil & filter. I changed the oil 6 month later using Amsoil oil & filter. I have no problem. I changed from Mobil 1 to Amsoil because Mobil recently changed their formula in their production of Mobil 1.

    Maybe using 100% synthetic motor oil might avoid sludge problem because synthetic oil can absorb a higher tempeture so the oil would not breakdown so easily. Any comments welcome and will definitely help all Sienna owners.
  • beckpbeckp Member Posts: 20
    I have an '98 XLE, 62,000 miles on it. I've used Mobil 1 from after 500 miles and have never used anything else. I don't try to push it on the change interval. I'm from the old school where I was taught 3000 miles. Granted, I don't panic if I can't get to it until 4,000 or even 4,500 but never higher. I don't have one hint of a sludge or engine problem at all.

    What amazes me is people spending a great deal of money on a vehicle and then all of a sudden they want to get cheap with the single most important thing you can do to preserve the life of it, change the oil faithfully and regularly. Now I know you are going to say, the manual says....... I know what it say's but how many of you followed the break in instructions word for word, how many drive the posted speed limit, or slow down to the suggested speed limit on a corner. We are all given a brain that offers us some flexability and the ability for common sense.

    If all the 98' Siennas have the same engine, why don't all of them develop sludge? Why, beacuse something very unigue come's into play, owner treatment and attention.
  • cliffy1cliffy1 Member Posts: 3,581
    I know of none with respect to this issue. Remember, I am in the sales side of the dealership and while I can listen and ask things of the service guys, I don't deal with it on a daily basis. The only agreement that I know about similar to what you are talking about dealt with a Sequoia. That was not related to sludge.
  • cliffy1cliffy1 Member Posts: 3,581
    Thank you. Common sense like yours is far too uncommon.
  • jeproxjeprox Member Posts: 466
    just curious, how many of you here would agree that oil change on any car should be at 5000kms.=3125miles interval under normal driving conditions.
  • johnmcdanjohnmcdan Member Posts: 27
    cliffy1 wrote:

    > I am in the sales side of the dealership and
    > while I can listen and ask things of the
    > service guys, I don't deal with it on a daily
    > basis.

    Thanks. My experience with my Toyota salesman was great. My experience with the service department was characterized by accusation, contempt, and instant defensiveness. Unfortunately the salesman will suffer for the poor customer skills in the service department.

    jmcdan
  • rward99rward99 Member Posts: 185
    Cliffy, I wish that my '99 had come with the TO option (I bought it used), but it did not. I checked with two dealerships about having it added but both said that there isn't a 'kit' for this and you have to add up all the individual components; every little wire, motor, hose, clip, fuse, etc. With a frame hitch and all the little stuff it came to about $1300 at the dealership. The biggest pieces for TO were larger fan motors (2), the tranny oil cooler, and some logic chips controlling the fan motors. Most of the rest were clips, fuses, screws, etc. (Of course the frame hitch itself was a big piece, but not part of the TO option itself).
  • mcgregermcgreger Member Posts: 40
    and I pretty much have taken the same course with my '01 Sienna. I mean, you can either invest a little more in having frequent oil changes(cheap insurance, as far as I can tell); or you can take your chances on the lengthier intervals and maybe have a sludge problem some day. I too, was brought up with 3k to 4k oil change interval, and think that compared to the original purchase price of the vehicle, or the price of a new engine; that frequent oil changes still make a lot of sense to me.
  • deepandeepan Member Posts: 342
    "From above post: by joe1948
    I have a 98 Sienna with 47,000 miles. I too found a thin layer of black gritty sludge in the oil fill hole. This black grit seems to be limited
    to the small area at the oil fill hole. Why? No idea.
    My question is what caused this grit? "

    Is there some sort of a (black) filter in the fill hole that filters the oil ( dont know why it needs a filtration) before it enters the engine
    block that we may be mistaking for sludge.

    anyone working for toyota probably could take a look in a new sienna by opening up the cap of the oil filler hole and let us know. Or other owners maybe. No one has really addressed this point.
    thank you
  • innovationsinnovations Member Posts: 69
    That's exactly what I saw in my 2001. I was able to scrape it off with a knife just to see how deep it was. It was just on the surface and just enough to make it look worse than it was.

    I have an oil change scheduled for tomorrow and will have someone take a look and hopefully explain why it would concentrate in the filler area. Cliffy said what I described was what sludge looked like. I've had oil changes around 3000 miles and used the dealership from day one, so based upon what Toyota is saying about proper maintenance it shouldn't be sludge.
  • jeproxjeprox Member Posts: 466
    my 99 sienna have that same black sludge you mentioned. from what i understand, it's not the same type of sludge thats causing engines to die.

    i was told this black stuff is carbon build-up and i check other cars and i did see the same stuff. i also understand that the only way to find out for sure if you got sludge or not is to pull off your valve cover or you see puff of blue smoke from your tailpipe
  • innovationsinnovations Member Posts: 69
    I've been so concerned about the "sludge" reports that I even had a nightmare about it a couple of nights ago. ..scary~ I could never afford to spend the amount of money needed to fix the problem if it really existed. Our Sienna is our only car and I bought it so my wife didn't end up stranded with our children on one of the remote roads out where we live. Our monthly payments strain our finances with little room for any major engine problems out of pocket.

    That said, I had to find some humor in this hot topic. ..I was just thinking that IF the sludge issue really ends up being just a myth and mainly a side-effect of poor maintenance, Toyota owners are going to have some of the best maintained vehicles around :) ..maybe it's really a strategy by Toyota to keep it's cars regarded as the most reliable cars out there.. gotta try~
  • cliffy1cliffy1 Member Posts: 3,581
    Thanks for the note of levity. I like that kind of thinking.

    To relieve your stress, I would recommend getting an oil change now and ask the dealership to let you take a look under the valve cover. They will charge for this, but it will be worth viewing to ease your mind. Then, proceed with normal maintenance, preferably at 5000 intervals or less. Doing this, your van will do exactly what you expected it to when you bought it.
  • john339john339 Member Posts: 229
    you have mentioned in others posts about a bad batch of torque converters on the Sienna or something like that. Can you please expand on what the issue is?
  • cliffy1cliffy1 Member Posts: 3,581
    You may need to go back to the archives for this. There was a batch of Siennas back in the spring of 2000 that had bad torque converters. They often failed within the first 100 miles, although some made it farther than that. First evidence of the problem was a check engine light. When hooked to a scan machine, the error code was 770. In some cases, this lead to total transmission failures. The problem was traced to a bad batch of materials from one of Toyota's suppliers and the problems was fixed and has not resurfaced.
  • joe1948joe1948 Member Posts: 8
    I agree with Cliffy 1. I too was very concerned as I mentioned in an earlier post. I was almost ready to run out and trade my 98 Sienna until I pulled my front valve cover and as I mentioned, no sludge at all, upper head area very clean. But, I had to do this to convince myself that I was not going to be faced with a very expensive repair. The front valve cover is very easy to pull but if you don't want to attempt it, have your local dealer do it. I checked and was quoted $39.95. That's a fairly cheap price for peace of mind. Now if only someone could come up with an explanation of where the black, gritty material is coming from that is at the oil fill hole. And no, there's no screen there. It's a metal shield that is mounted on the underside of the valve cover.
  • dardson1dardson1 Member Posts: 696
    my understanding is the problem's with the 2000+ engines......the ones from which Toyota squeezed an extra 20hp and higher mpg numbers....according to what I read (and I'm just a very interested observer of this situation since I own an 01 Lexus ES300 and recently traded out of my 01 Sienna ) part of the process of updating the engine resulted in smaller coolant passages and running the engine at higher temps....no matter what any book said, I would never extent oil changes to 7500.....as there are many drivers who care nothing about cars and just want reliable point A to point B transportation (I think this could describe a good number of people who drive Toyotas) I can imagine a group who would follow the car manual instructions without a thought. I can also imagine that Toyota just might have pushed this engine too far and that the trade off is that it's prone to sludge if not religiously maintained.
  • innovationsinnovations Member Posts: 69
    Thanks for the information joe and cliffy. It's nice to know that what I was seeing isn't sludge. I'm also curious what the grit really is. I'll let you know what the dealership says.

    There's got to be someone out there that has experienced a real case of sludge with real proof of proper service. I'd sure be disappointed to be the first. On the otherhand, I would think Toyota wouldn't hesitate in correcting the problem if it did arise.

    Since I have never really required warranty work from a Toyota dealership, I'm still uncomfortable in guessing if they really back their warranties.
  • jeproxjeprox Member Posts: 466
    anyone adjusted their own rear drum brakes?
    just wondering coz i may need to adjust mine soon.

    if you have, please provide whatever info u have.

    thanks.
  • dardson1dardson1 Member Posts: 696
    according to my dealer, the rear brakes are adjusted when you engage the parking brake. What a curious way to adjust! How many of you have ever used the parking brake? The rear drums are a Sienna issue that make all sorts of strange noises and squeak when you inch up in an intersection. The dealer adjusted mine at every oil change, as though they knew it needed to be done without asking. Does that tell you they have a problem back there?
  • mcgregermcgreger Member Posts: 40
    if Toyota was really interested in repairing customer relations, and at the same time, show that there is nothing wrong with the design of these engines-select at random several of the owners of sludged vehicles(Camry, Sienna, etc.), and give them a new vehicle to drive for a year. Have three new vehicles per several different geographical regions in the US and Canada, and then have three different oil change intervals for them. One would be every 3 to 4k, one at every 5 to 6k, and one at every 7 to 8k miles. The test vehicles would be taken to a participating dealer who would do the oil changes for free and also make an inspection of the engine for sludge. The drivers of the vehicles would have the use of them for a year for free(except for gas), and could report first hand what they have experienced. I think this would go a long way to either proving or disproving that: there is a faulty engine design; the operating temps. are too high; or the oil change intervals are wrong. It might also help to show both old and new customers what the problem really is and perhaps restore the confidence that customers have in Toyota. Just an idea....
  • jeproxjeprox Member Posts: 466
    thanks for the info.

    sounds like self-adjusting rear brakes which is not very common. i thought only VW's have self adjusting brakes.

    i'll remove the drums again and have a look.

    thanks again
  • stealth1969stealth1969 Member Posts: 162
    I do my own oil changes on all 5 vehicles currently. I KNOW my oil was changed and was at the correct level when completed. Now I admit I was a bad boy because I did not keep my receipts for the purchase of the oil and filters. I never needed them before on any other new car I had ever bought. If i you think doing it at the dealer is any better, check out the "Engine slugde" topic to see someone who had the dealer do the changes and still got sludge. Sorry to rant be it just gets under my skin to see Toyota (in this case) point the finger at everybodyelse (owner negligence, Jiffy Lube, inferior oil and filters) but themselves. I think you need to change the oil and filter more often than the manual says not to have a problem. Most of the people here who say they have not had a slidge problem, change the oil around 3k to maybe 4k miles. Not close to the manual, but that is what is needed. Enough ranting for now.
  • deg856deg856 Member Posts: 120
    3.3 million cars (total involved) - just over 3 thousand cars with sludge = still roughly 3.3 million cars with no sludge. Since it's known that more than 99.9% of the cars do not have sludge, what would adding a few more cars, which are statically insignificant, as you had suggested prove? Don't you think that chances (99.9% no problem against 0.1% problem) are there will be no problem with so few "test cars", so why even bother with this meaningless experiment? Nevertheless, since we're just day dreaming let's add the following to the wish list:

    1. Not only do these lucky owners with sludge get new cars to drive around for free, Toyota should pay them monthly salaries since these people are now "official sludge testers".
    2. Since the entire reputation of Toyota now hinges on these chosen few, Toyota should pay for semi-annual Hawaiian vacations for these lucky few to make sure they provide nothing but glowing reports of their ownership experience.

    However, you can't have your cake and eat it too, so here are additional conditions for participation. If, at the end of the test, that the participants agreed that properly maintained vehicles do not get sludge, and that sludge was his/her own fault in the first place, he/she would agree to the following:

    1. Reimburse Toyota for the use of car for the one-year test period, the vacation, and the monthly salaries.
    2. Pay for the entire bill of the original engine repair due to sludge.
    3. Get his/her name published and publicly apologize to Toyota for false accusation.
    4. Toyota reserves the rights to sue these people for defamation and loss of revenue.

    It's only fair. (End of day dream.)

    San Jose, CA
Sign In or Register to comment.