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Comments
Overfilling is seriously bad if it's more than a quart or so... if the level in the crank case is high enough, the crankshaft throws will whip it up into something frothy and creamy... and then it lubricates about as well as a latte...
Always always always check your oil level after someone else changed your oil.
Make sure you still have an engine, and worry about driveability problems later.
-Mathias
Bob
1. Could sludge cause the symptoms I described?
2. The car had been running very smoothly before I took in for service...how is it that these problems happened right after the service? Why would an oil change cause this problem to surface?
3. Are there any other explanations for these symptoms (aside from sludge?) "
1. Yes, sludge could cause these symptoms, but the only way to tell is have the valve cover pulled. if you want to be sure for yourself, be present when they do this to see for yourself.
2. Yes, the car can be running fine up to a certain point. Usually there are other signs before you notice the engine acting up, like the smoke in the exhaust, high usage of oil, check engine light illuminating, or visible signs of sludge on the dipstick. It may not be that noticeable on an oil change except the oil would have looked old and less than the normal amount would have drained. This could have lead to an overfill of oil as others have suggested and caused your immediate problems. I don't know, but it is possible that draining the oil that was still liquid could have stirred the remaining sludgy oil up enough to make it clog the system.
3. Probably.
--------------
If you feel uncomfortable with this dealerships diagnosis, take it elsewhere. If you can show records of reasonable maintenance, the 8 yr, unlimited mile sludge policy should cover you.
The squealing usually comes from front discs not the rear break drums make sure they work on the right breaks.
It seems sludge is a persistant problem wit hthe Toyota V6 of this vintage. Can you tell by the way the engine sounds or runs, or must you open up the valve cover?
I heard that the design was modified further in 2004, so you may want to consider getting one of that vintage.
If you do go for a 2001 or early 2002 (really this goes for any year and any make/model car you buy), try to get all the maintenance records from the owner and make sure it was properly maintained. That way, if something happens down the line, you may be covered under the 8 year sludge warranty.
Owned since new, and I did all the oil changes on the car myself & documented them. Winter oil changes at 3k miles; summer up to 5k, depending on conditions.
And there is plenty of crud on the top surface of the baffle under the oil filler cap. No circulation; it gets hot, there's junk on it and has been since 10k miles. I would guess the filler cap isn't much different. I doubt that these indicators are all that helpful.
That said, sludge in these engines is very rare, just not as rare as in, say, the Toyota 1.8l engine.
Good luck,
-Mathias
I do have the same problem that you experienced in item(7). Can you please guide me how you resolved the issue? I am having 98 Sienna XLE and it is a manual door.
Appreciate your help in this regard.
Thanks
Guna
Once i ease on gas the noise stops
some ideas from a fellow motorist:
sit in the passenger seat and have someone else drive to re-create the noise. often helps you determine the thing causing the noise (localizing or better pinpointing the source). you will not be distracted with the act of driving and you can move about in your seat to get a better sense. you can roll the window down and stick your head out.
you might even let someone drive the car by you when your standing in the parking lot.
trust me - it can all help.
i'd try to determine if you can re-create the sound when reving the engine in park. if so it's probably not transmission related (which is good - 'cause a transmission issue could be expensive).
try this: shut the car off, open the hood, make sure car in park and parking brake on, restart the car and have someone else hit the gas while you listen to things in the engine compartment. maybe you can localize it. have them cycle getting on the gas hard and letting up. listen listen listen. move around the car while this is done. let your ears help localize the sound. we have 2 ears and the ability to move our head and body for this reason.
you have correlated it to acceleration / cruise. that is a good good start but still a bit too general.
it could be belts on your pulleys, it could be a loose something or other in the engine compartment (a loose windshield fluid resevoir for example), a piece of metal or plastic somewhere.
with the car off and cool, use your hands to gently determine if anything is loose (has excessive play) in the engine compartment. perhaps a bolt holding something on or tight to the engine side walls or another engine component is loose.
penizzle has suggested an exhaust issue. very probable.
many cars have heat shields on the exhaust manifold (where the gasses from each cylinder exit the engine and are collected and sent to the catalytic convertor and muffler), and/or around the catalytic convertor, and/or the muffler.
a loose heat shield could be the issue. with the engine cold, car in park, emergency brake on, you could try to sneak under the vehicle, even using a long stick or piece of wood and see if there is any loose shield from the engine back to the exit of the muffler at the back of the car.
another possibility is a missing or disconnected "exhaust hanger". these are made of hardened rubber (like a black thick rubber band) and will connect to a hanger on the body of the vehicle, and another hanger on some exhaust pipe or muffler etc (there are usually a few of these things...3 or 4). it will hold the exhaust system in place, but at the same time, help hold it away from any other metal on the bottom of the car. it also allows engine vibration and movement to occur without fracturing the exhaust piping...it can move with the engine, and not be transmitted to the engine compartment.
when the engine revs, a few things, it's position changes somewhat and it's vibration level can change, and these can can be coupled to the body of the vehicle somewhere. we already discussed the exhaust and hangers.
a bad engine mount (the things holding the engine in place in the engine compartment - there are probably three) if damaged, can allow that engine vibration to be poorly damped, coupling vibration to the engine compartment, and the movement of the engine to be greater than it otherwise would be as you get on and off the gas.
other possibilities include loose plastic on the under-body of the car up near the front (for example protecting the oil pan). other pieces of plastic probably exist in the driver and passenger wheel well.
i hope i'm not confusing you. if so - i apologize.
you're on the path of discovering what's going on. it's gonna take some work.
good luck.
Sopman
Thanks.
- Mike
Anybody have an idea what's causing my problem?
When I turn the lights on, cruise control won't work (the cruise control dash board indicator does turn on), or if I'm running on cruise control and turn on the lights, the cruise control turns off. Cruise control works perfectly if the lights are turned off.
Also, if the lights are turned off and I hit the brake, the dash board lights turn for as long as the brake pedal is depressed. Weird!
Could these be related?
Thanks.
Dealer says, no problem, covered by comprehensive insurance. Insurance says only cover to buy a used engine, since no "betterment" is covered. so we're stuck with the difference. Still waiting to see what our cost will be, beyond the deductible
Any help or insights?
As for your problem, this is called "hydraulic locking" and it is not uncommon. Mostly it's a matter of luck whether or not it happens to your car. Some intakes are more vulnerable than others, it's true. Also the speed at which you hit the puddle makes a difference.
It doesn't take much water to lock an engine...all you need is enough to fill the space on one cylinder, between the piston and the cylinder head. A piston cannot compress water, not even a little bit...so a coffee cup full of water might be enough to jam one cylinder, and when one jams the connecting rod is immediately bent.
I don't see why your engine cannot be examined and possibly repaired---it's unlikely all cylinders are damaged.
anyway, nothing wrong with a good used engine.
Anyway, I'm still confused about the injectors allowing a gulp of water in. I can see that in a carb, but it seems like it would be more unlikely in an injected engine. I know my wife tried to restart the car after it died, maybe that kept pumping water in and it built up. I probably would have done the same thing, and tried to get the car the heck out of the water.
My worry with the used engine route is knowing the history of the engine. My old engine was maintained like crazy. More frequent that the owners manual, cause my wife listened to the dealer's schedule. With all the "sludging" stories out there, I'm worried I'll be trading for one that was poorly (or not even) maintained, and it'll crap out shortly.
Any ideas on how to ensure the best for my money if we're forced to go that way?
Hydraulic lock can be a killer no matter how you look at it. A fuel injected(or carburated)engine needs 15 parts of air for every 1 part fuel no matter how the fuel is delivered. If enough water gets in to the air intake while this is going on, look out! Going thru a deep puddle is often enough to make that happen. Yours was that deep from the sounds of it. Engine flooding often depends on how fast you move through the puddle. You can't go too slow, but it doesn't take much to go too fast! Water splashes into the engine bay, and it's game over!
Hydraulic lock used to be the bugbear of the older radial aircraft engines, where half the cylinders were below the oil sump. It was always necessary to manually pull the propeller through several rotations to clear the engine of oil settled into the low cylinders. If not, the engine would often blow a cylinder or two right off the crankcase! Always a spectacular event!
You're thinking about this wrong.
The water did not get in through the injectors -- and if it did, it wouldn't be a big deal -- but it got in through the AIR intake. And that's really just a big hole, is what that is... like shifty said, it don't take much; water does not compress, and something had to give.
I shudder to think of the force necessary to bend a connecting rod. Ouch.
-Mathias