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I understand, but you were responding to canuck785's post which was about the SX4 (despite the title mentioning Reno).
Incidentally, I read in my News Sentinel today that Suzuki ranks next to last in JD Power reliability surveys. Wonder if that's due to the Daewoo Reno/Forenza/Verona cast offs?
Suzuki seems to think so: Suzuki blaming poor initial quality scores on GM Daewoo-produced vehicles
have you drove a Yaris yet? if so, how does it compare to an xA or an aveo?
just out of curiosity, if you could buy any of those hatch tomorrow, which one would you get? aveo, yaris, fit, versa,accent,rio, rabbit ??? or wait for the new sx4
Your question about which I would buy tomorrow is hard because I haven't found an Accent SE to drive yet. I suspect based on drives of the GS hatch that I might like the SE a lot.
I would like to see what the SX4 is like. And, I will be able to because I don't have to buy a car for a couple of years. Based on those I've driven, I prefer the Fit overall, then the Rabbit (which I like a lot in 3-door form except for fuel economy and historically poor reliability). The Versa was a pretty nice drive too, but early reports on fuel economy aren't too good and I don't like the big step in the back with seats folded. The Rio is quite nice also, but overpriced I think given Kia's historically poor resale value.
And I am still hoping Hyundai will re-introduce the Elantra hatch on the all-new platform.
Also, isn't it time to retire the Pro5 from the list and replace it with a hatchback that is actually for sale as a new car--the Mazda3 or Fit or Versa or.... ?
i find it is hard to make a decision because all those cars have pros and cons and are basically, IMO, pretty good cars. I guess it all comes down to what someone needs and like, and i migh add, how long some is willing to wait to get a car!! ( 2-4 mths for a yaris liftback here)
i dont think the rabbit will be a choice for me : dealerships are too far and only very few to deal with.
I understand your issue with dealerships. That might keep me from a Suzuki, although there is a dealer close to me there are very few in my town and few overall. VW dealers are plentiful where I live, though. So are Hyundai and Kia dealers, and of course dealers for the American and Japanese car companies.
good thing Yugo stop making cars!!! LOL
What tC were *you* looking at? When I looked at the tC, the only way I could fit in the back seat was if the hatch was open to allow my head to stick up. There isn't enough room for anyone over about 5'-4" in that back seat.
by the way, anyone noticed that if you want to compare 2007 Scion the Xa or the Xb are not showing up, only the TC does?
on other forums, there is a rumor that the production of xb and xa will be dropped...
It could be that the 2007 xA and xB haven't been released to dealers yet. There were photos of a next-gen xB on Town Hall a while ago.
Looks like two doors to me.....
Maybe confusing the Scion tC with the Saturn ION?:
And the "tC 4 door" reference - I take it you were being sarcastic
i knew the TC was not a hacht but i was sure it had 4 doors.... sowwy!
i really want to know about the xA and Xb for 2007...i just love those 2 cars!
I saw an xA "special edition" (or whatever they called it) this w/e,it was the bright red one that they offered in 2005. wow! what a cute car!! it had different wheels on it and it looked like a mini cooper
my husband WANTS me to get an xA, but i am pushing for the aveo
Yet another blonde moment: The tC *is* a hatchback. :P
Actually, between an Aveo and an xA, it isn't a cut-and-dry decision. The xA definitely has a higher "wow" factor, but the Aveo is also a decent choice.
Out of the GM-Daewoo cars sold in the U.S., the Aveo is the biggest seller and has the best reliability. Its ride is smoother than the xA's, although it has noticeably more body lean in corners. If you're not driving it like a Ferrari though, that shouldn't be a big deal. The Aveo seems more inviting inside; it feels roomier than the cramped xA. The engine noise is also worse on the xA than on the Aveo. The Aveo buzzes on acceleration, but the xA buzzes all the time!
After looking at several models in that class last year, I went up a bit and bought a Hyundai Elantra. But if I were to choose between the xA and the Aveo, I would pick the Aveo.
for my defense, i never saw one in "person", only in pictures, and they dont "LOOK" like they are hachtback :P
both the aveo and the xA are interesting choices in the segment, (i drove both ) so i KNOW what they are :P
the Xa comes all equipped, which is cool, but the aveo is cheaper and a good deal too. i also love the colors of the aveos!
my scion dealer is a lot further than the chevy one, which could be handy.
Chevy also changed their warranty to 5 yrs/100,000 miles, which is longer than toyota-scion but with the reputation toyota has, not sure they really need a longer warranty
i am also looking at the new suzuki SX4 AWD, it offers A LOT for 15 k.
I looked at Suzukis (Aerio & Reno) when car shopping last year, mostly just to cross them off my list. After driving them, they both hung around on my list for a long time! The Reno especially seemed a great value, but I was afraid it was more of a facade and that the car wouldn't hold up. (The Reno is built by GMDAT just like the Aveo, but the quality ratings of the plant where the Reno is produced are not as good as where the Aveo is produced. Suzuki even cited GMDAT as the major driver for their own quality problems.)
I wouldn't hesitate to buy a "true" Suzuki though.
the SX4 is really an appealling little car, has lots of goodies plus AWD available with auto or 5 spd.
as you said, if awd is a priority, got for it. I am debating the "necessity" factor, my last cars were a JEEP Wrangler, when I was still in canada and then a Cherokee in kansas, but now I am not really sure if I really need it here. The MPG are also a bit lower with the SX4 , 28 mpg highway. if you consider that the Reno gets a 31 highway rating and it's not a AWD, i guess it is not bad
As i mentioned in other post, the location of the dealership is something to consider in my case, because most of them are at leat 50 miles + away, except the chevy/pontiac ones.
That's pretty much the conclusion I reached. The Reno got so-so reviews with respect to handling and acceleration, but I though it was fine. Still, the relationship between Suzuki and GMDAT is not the smoothest, so that kind of scared me. I thought the exterior body style of the Reno was great though; a real eye-catcher for me (as a hatchback lover).
I am with you on this one, I just love hatchback cars!
2 or 4 door sedan doesn't do anything for me!
someone mentioned to me in a post, not sure if it is in this forum, but he said that getting the new hyundai accent hach was a no brainer versus the aveo. well I got my brochure in the mail yesterday and this seems like a good little car!! I also love the choice of bold colors!
I was pretty set on getting a 4 door for pratical reasons but maybe it is worth giving it a "drive"!!
what do you guys think about that new 2007 hyundai accent?
"my" nissan dealer just receive "my" versa yesterday, might be going to test it this w/e but for some reason, this car just leaves me " blah" dont know why but it just does
i say "my" because he had to order a few and since we were already communicating about a versa, he sent me an email asking me which trim/color and tranny I would like and that he would order it according to it, since he had to order a couple anyways, i thought that was very nice of him to offer and to actually do it!
It looks like a lot of car for the money. I haven't driven one though, so I really don't know.
I almost hate to say it because I've never liked the brand, but Chevies are starting to grow on me. The Aveo was johnnie-on-the-spot- available in mass quantities when gas prices went up; the Cobalt sedan has transformed itself in my mind from a Cavalier follow-on to something that more resembles the Mazda3 sedan, and the HHR seems like a practical smallish family wagon.
What's this world coming to? :confuse:
The fix for the starter problem resulted in a 10% reduction in already poor gas mileage, from 22 to 20 (I had gotten 17 over the exact same terrain with my '02 Silverado Reg Cab!) It also seems to have caused the engine to rev to 2500 and ease down for several seconds immediately upon starting it, definitely not something I wanted it to continue doing into the winter months! So they recently reprogrammed it to 2000 rpm. Is that normal starting rpm?
I have gotten 35 mpg with this car on the highway, so it's a great car in that regard. But as I do most of my driving on hilly, twisty, and tight east Tennessee roads I have no confidence whatsoever in it's performance or handling.
If you have an extra few grand and are wanting an AWD car, I would strongly suggest considering the Impreza wagon. I owned a FWD Impreza from '94 to '02 and it handled great!!! Plus it was RELIABLE. I spent no more than $500 on repairs until it hit 150,000 miles. Not even a brake job! But you do give up back seat space. I wish I had stuck with a good thing when I went back to a car after losing my Silverado. So far my Reno has had a new catalytic converter, and will soon get a new rack and a new cruise control switch. I'm wondering what will be next. Odds are the entire car will be replaced before it goes off warranty.
I wanted a 4 doors because i have 2 big labs and a 10 yr old son, but we have a pick up truck that can accomodate us as well, so most of the time I would be by myself in the car. as long as the back seat is decent, my son would be OK.
Like you, I was looking for room in a small package. I have kids and needed the room and Reno looked good "on paper". I felt like I did my due diligence at the time because no web sites discussed its quality problems in Oct '05. Since then it's been another story.
An acquaintance of mine drove a new Grand Vitara for 7 days before its transmission went out. Suzuki comes in dead last in initial quality surveys. Now I know why!!!
At this point, I would not consider buying anything Suzuki.
I bought in October 05 and I didn't buy the Reno because of quality concerns I heard about on forums. Not so much here, but over on Suzuki-Forums.com. From that forum, I found this article where Suzuki blames Daewoo (makers of the Reno) for their reliability problems. It was published in August 05, and it wasn't so much the reliability problems themselves that scared me off; it was the way Suzuki pointed the finger at their "partner" without trying to put a positive PR spin on it as automakers typically do.
Suzuki blaming poor initial quality scores on GM Daewoo-produced vehicles.
A quote from the article:
Suzuki had 151 problems per 100 vehicles in this year's study, up from 149 last year. The industry average was 118.
"One reason for this, to be honest, is because we added (GM Daewoo) cars," Ono says.
Among other steps, he says, they agreed to require GM Daewoo to review its engineering and suppliers. "Parts from suppliers are not always controlled well."
GM Daewoo officials won't say what they're doing to remedy the problems with the cars GM Daewoo is building.
they tested the Honda Fit, Hyundai Accent, Kia Rio, Nissan Versa and the Toyota Yaris
(all 2007 and both sedan and hatchback)
this is basically all the cars that are discussed on this forum.
anyways, the ONLY one the recommended was the FIT.
i guess you have to buy the magazine to get the full evaluation.
not sure I agree with everything they said but it was still interesting to read!
I am in the market to buy an Elantra GT hatchback. I was looking at used ones, but found a dealer that has 1 new 06 left. It is an AT, with no extra options (like ABS or sunroof). The invoice according to Edmunds is $15,692, and the dealer is offering a $1000 rebate. Now reading this forum, I see where people have gotten their cars for around $14,000. Would a dealer sell under invoice? Sorry, I'm new at the whole car buying experience. Just looking for some advice on what price to shoot for. ANY help would be appreciated. Thanks!
the versa got a really poor note on breaks BTW.
from what i remember in the tests, the other cars did not score that bad overall but they just recomended the Fit, which is THE most expensive of the group :mad:
the more I shop around, the more I am undecided ! :confuse:
If i was to buy today, i'd get a used honda element ex AWD! not a hacht but i would sure "Fit" all my needs!
The benefits you have going for you are: It's an '06 with '07s out. It doesn't have the sunroof package (which I'm loving). It's still unsold.
The problem you have is that the new '07s don't come in a hatchback, so the dealership can sort-of afford to hold onto it, until they find someone who has to have a hatchback (like me).
It's worth trying to go under invoice, but don't be disappointed if the dealership doesn't play along.
I think the Versa SL with CVT was the most expensive car in the test, but I am going on heresay. It makes sense though, if the Fit Sport they tested was a stick.
An Element?!? Well, different strokes for different folks I guess...
when you look at the articles, the prices ranges are
13,850/15,170 for the fit
12,550/14,550 for the versa
that's why i said the Fit was the most expensive one.
but if you go at the comparision table then the versa is quoted at 16,675?!
anyways, the Fit still the only one the recommend.
on another note, even if it does "fit" this forum, I always loved the Element since it came out. I just happen to like the boxy style! I owned a wrangler for yrs, then a cherokee (both box like) i was considering the xB and if i'd win the lottery, i'd get myself a nice H3. i dont know why but the square/box shape is just very appealing to me.
CR actually recommends the Fit, xB, and Focus ZX3 (but only the Fit was tested this time). They will recommend the Versa, Rio, and Accent if they achieve at least an Average predicted reliability rating in the future.
Because there were both sedans and hatches reviewed, I put my overall impressions into the Low-End cars discussion, here:
backy, "Low End Sedans (under $16k)" #3704, 6 Nov 2006 9:17 am
Dumb move, only getting dumber, Ford! :mad:
Peace!
And Ford gets rid of the hatch option.
Gee...Ford is in trouble. I wonder why?
nothing extensive, just my honest opinion, coming from a regular 35 yrs old gal
scion xA
basically, we loved it! the look is great and we really liked the "go-kart" feel to it when driving . we tested the auto tranny. we did noticed that it was "moving" a bit in the strong winds we had here saturday, but considering the size of the car, that is to be expected. it had more "get-up" and go that we expected, after driving the xB this summer (feels totally different even if they have the same engine).
it was also pretty quiet at 70 mph, again considering the car!
the inside is well designed and confortable. it has a roomy feel to it. 4 doors is a plus. the seats are on the "hard" side but ok. the quality is all over and i would not be embarassed to drive one.
overall, this car is a lot of fun!!!
the yaris
2 words: big disappointment
the car sure looks cute inside and out but is it SMALL.
again, we tried the auto tranny.
the driving impression was nice though, the yaris seemed a little bit more solid on the road then the xA.
we loved the sound of the door closing. really we had to do it like 3 times! it sounded like a much, much bigger car and really felt solid.
we were disappointed because...well, we cant put our finger on it but we just were.
I felt cramped in it, maybe due to the fact that the doors come pretty "high"(if that makes sense) and i am only 5.4". I did not like the 2 doors either (not a fault of the car here) the salesman, a little guy BTW had a hard time getting back there but said the room was nice once he reclined the back seat a bit.
it has no tach (annoying) and the center spedo did not look as nice as the xA.
lots of cup holders,nooks and cranny and the seats were nice, black with liitle blue dots. the sitting positing was high and the seats were confortable.
would we buy one? absolutely not.
accent
took the auto tranny (got to love them huh??!!) and I was really pleasantly surprised at the smooth ride.
the siting position was quite lower than the yaris/xA but the seats were not as firm,
( dunno on the long run how that would do?)
again, i did not like the 2 doors but that is not worse than any 2 doors car out there.
the ride was pretty quiet, we did not noticed the wind as much in it and we drove the 3 cars within 90 minutes period of time and all on the same road.
i liked the armrest even if it looked kinda cheap, at least it was there unlike the yaris /xA.
my husband said about the accent that it was as fun as watching paint dry ( :surprise: ) but i firmly disagreed!
i would say that the accent, the GS trim with a/c that we drove, felt more like an "adult" car than the 2 other ones and the ride was really pleasant.
the plastics on the doors did seem cheap but the inside of the car looked fine but not as "hip" as the yaris/xA.
the accent also comes in nice colors and the burgundy one looked real nice. the overall look of the car is great IMO.
Hyundai accents sure came a long way!
would I get one? yes if i did not have a kid. the 2 doors would not work for me.
which made me re-consider the kia rio5 BTW
the next car we test drove was a 2006 honda element and even if it is not a hachtback, i,ll just say that I WANTED to like it because of all the room and goodies but after driving the small cars previously, I felt i was driving a big UPS truck. on the other hand, my husband LOVED, LOVED, LOVED it.
my conclusion is that at this point, i would probably buy the xA. I am also happy to say that i am re-discovering the fun of driving a small car and i cant' wait to purchase!!
I am in kansas and luckily the supply is not short around here. If it would come to that no new xA would be avaible, i'd go with a sightly used one, that would not bother me.
i know you are the one that told me about the new SX4 a while back, have you test drove one yet???
http://www.caranddriver.com/comparisons/10925/15000-cheap-skates.html
And, oh brother C & D :sick: