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Comments
these are all experiences that generally do not occur when owning a lexus. as i pointed out earlier, lexus does have problems, and the new es has had FAR more problems than the x-type. the difference is the lexus responds to the problems, and does not deny them until they can no longer do so. the one exception is the toyota/lexus engine issue that you've pointed out. that is a biggie, and yes, i am glad i do not own a toyota or lexus with a version of that engine right now.
i hope you take this as intended, i love when you post enthusiastically about the x, as i love my car too, but to cheer blindly is not always a good thing. jaguar service and customer support has quite a long way to go still to be ranked up there with lexus. a lot of it is a dealer to dealer thing, but some of the biggest issues are with jaguar north america, not with individual dealers.
1. While some owners of Toyota/Lexus owners have reported engine slude problems, according to a recent article in Automotive News (a dealer trade pub) the number of affected engines was less than 1% of those produced since 1997. So, while there does seem to be a problem it is also an isolated one.
2. "I also must say out of experience from ownership that Jaguar makes some of the finest cars the world has to offer."
While your comments are highly valued, they must be placed in perspective. At 16 years old your "experience" amounts to a whole few months of car ownership. I certainly have a different view of the world of cars now than I did when I had my first Honda at age 19. Similarly, somebody who has bought ten cars in their lifetime has a lot more experience than me (I've only purchased three cars).
3. I clearly stated I have no experience with owning a Jaguar. All I did was post an article. I did not provide any personal commentary with that post. I believe it is valid to discuss what the press says about cars. I'm sure your reaction would have been different had I posted a car comparison article from, say, Motor Trend, in which the Jaguar came in 1st.
4. While some people inevitable will cross-shop the ES 300 and X-Type, I do not consider them competitors. And I am not out to promote the ES 300, as I do not think it is suited for all types of drivers. Check out some of my posts on other boards. Several times I have stated my dislike for the IS 300 (which is an X-Type competitor), particularly the interior. Further, I have also praised the Acura TL-S as a great car. And that car does compete with the ES 300. So, posting a negative article on the X-Type is in no way promoting the ES 300.
The problem seems to be that the auto dealers have far too much power and the mfrs have virtually no power over the dealers when there are dealer problems. Ford tried to fix that with Blue Oval certification with monetary incentives but the dealers hauled them to court and took all the teeth out of the proposal. Most dealers just don't care and the mfrs seem powerless to fix it.
OTOH there are isolated pockets of dealers, mfrs and vehicles that do seem to care. We had a Lincoln LS owner who had a problem that the dealer tried to fix with the help of the factory engineers for a few weeks with no success. Lincoln offered him a new 2002 LS to replace the 2000 without him even asking. Even kept his payment the same (not sure if the term was extended or not). This guy will probably be a Lincoln/Ford owner for life now. Then again we've had Lincoln dealers who wouldn't replace a license plate holder because he said it was a wear item and Lincoln wouldn't pay for it. I've heard of Mercedes dealers who gave out Camry and Accord loaner cars. Dealers today have far too much discretion in warranty matters.
so today was shocked to see what I thought was the new Toyota UGLY!!! Until it got a head
of me & saw that its badging alleged it was a Lexus ES300...must be the 2003...talk about
stylistically challenged...
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jonty12-
I am really glad that you are happy with your car, but as far as service goes, I truly have had superb service from Jaguar North America, and especially from my dealer. I have used both the "myjaguar.com" and the normal service on Jaguar's United States website to request information and make inquiries, and every time I have received responses within two weeks of the time I originally posted, usually much sooner. I have even been unverified as a Jaguar owner by not entering my VIN number when making some requests on the Jaguar U.S. website, and they still have answered me. I cannot imagine why your service has not been up to these standards, and understand how this would be frustrating for you. My father has mailed Jaguar North America before also, and each time received very courteous letters that made Jaguar sound even eager to help solve any mysteries or answer any questions. We also have received letters from the new head of Jaguar North America, and she encourages any Jaguar owner to mail her if they require assistance directly from her, along with many complementary issues of "JAGUAR" magazine with each letter.
My dealer has also given service that is absolutely magnificent. The people working there are very polite and interested in fixing any problems with the cars that are brought in no matter how minor or major they may be, and all of the mechanics wear white gloves and cover the interiors of the cars as to not get any smudges on the cars they work on. Every year since having Jaguars in the family, we have received very nice Christmas cards from our dealer, and through out the year they have different social gatherings which owners are invited to participate in. They'll even bring money managers and stock brokers in and provide money managing courses at some of these events - all free of charge of course.
We still receive mail from Jaguar North America as well as our dealer every month or two, making sure that we are still very pleased with our cars, and encouraging us to bring our cars in if there is anything displeasing about them. When the car is in the shop, they always provide a Jaguar and a driver to take you to work or where ever you needed to go that day. When you require a rental car, they give you a choice of a Jaguar, Land Rover (they are only a Jaguar dealer, I don't know where they get the other kinds of vehicles as they are not part of an automall either), or SAAB. If there is minor work to be done on a car and it does not need to be performed in the shop, then the dealer will sometimes even send someone out to your house to fix the car.
This is why I have had nothing but positive things to say about Jaguar's service.
it makes no sense for me to harp on this on a public board unless there is a problem (it lowers resale value if demand is low), but unfortunately, except for the lucky few such as yourself, there is a problem.
If so, please send an e-mail containing your contact information and vehicle description to jfallon@edmunds.com no later than Wednesday, June 12.
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Also, can someone please explain to me the value of the stabilization feature on the weather package? Is the weather package helpful? Thanks!
Here's the particulars: Sticker was just about 37, 360. Capitalized cost stuck around $35,600; MF was very good, but I can't recall the specifics (was it .013?). 39 months, 15K per year. Residual value: $18,800. With tax, first payment and fees plus the $1550 after trade buyout, the number was $461 a month.
Is that reasonable?
I do know of a dealer who is probably the most agressive. Let me know (e-mail) if anyone needs their info.
No I dont work for them
Bill
It doesn't leave me in any way less satisfied.
That's abou right on Jags. I sold them in the NY CIty Market, and XJ6s/XJ8s were usually $2K over, VDPs $2,500-3K over, XK8s $4,500 over, XJRs/XKRs at MSRP, MAYBE $1,000-1,500 off. May have changed now on Rs tho.
Sounds like you got a fair deal.
RIght now, from what I hear, 02s are about sold out.. You're probably better off ordering an 03.
Bill
We didn't haggle at all, but I honestly believe the deal was a true win-win because we had our cards on the table from the outset.
You suggest an 03. Can you get a dealer to "deal" on a new (03) car???
BTW, while I'm here, I noticed the picture of the 2003 S-Type's interior on edmunds.com. Is it just me, or does it look an awful lot like the X-Type's interior? Especially the center console. Just wondering.....
Oh, I've had the ES300 for three weeks now and I haven't run into anything, and I mean *anything*,wrong with it. No vibration when going above 45 mph, no rattles, rocking seats, stuck seat belts, weeping washers, snapping gearshift, "wine-glass" noises, or "slipping belt" noises, etc., etc. And, I can even close my trunk when I want to! Sorry guys, just had to.... ;-)
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I thought I'd add a little colour and Jaguar style to this page:
Anyway, Road&Track just added a loaded, silver 3.0 litre Jaguar X-TYPE Sport to their lineup of long-term vehicles. The article was actually pretty enthusiastic, especially about how Jaguars have a 4-year 50,000 mile warranty and that all maintenance on the cars would be free of charge during that time - which is also as long as this test should be. (50,000 miles that is, not four years - unless they love the car so much they decide to keep it.)
So far, they really like the car and its "less-than XJ pricing", and they said despite its lower price (for a Jaguar), it has everything that one would expect from Jaguar, including "the traditional Jaguar upscale cabin". They go on to say, "Our new long-term Jag may be an 'entry level' model but you wouldn't know it judging by all that leather, wood, and the easy-to-use nav system".
They also mention the car's "many safety features" and some of its technological highlights from its standard heated exterior mirrors to its advanced steering system and Traction 4 AWD, to name a few.
There was one statement that I found particularly amusing, but I cannot say I can blame them:
"Typically, we spec-out our long-term cars with an array of optional items and packages, the better to assess their value over time. Also, X-TYPEs early to our shores tended to be heavily optioned already."
I'm sure that statement does have a lot of truth to it, but the half they do not come out and say is that they also wanted to have fun driving around in a loaded Jaguar. They sure know how to live well, and this X-TYPE should pamper them considering that it started out at $35,950 and that with options it cost them $46,320. (I'll have to check, but I think they hit every option available.) From there, they go on to list every item they put on the car, almost as if they were really excited but having to wait to try out every gadget on the car so they could finish the article. "Ours has the..." they go on to cheerfully say.
Well, I hope they enjoy their time with the X-TYPE and don't wreck it, twice, the way the Edmunds people did their Vanden Plas. Their final statement is that their X-TYPE was "by no means inexpensive, even if this is a cat with nine lives". And the adventure continues...
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Regardless of what they have to say later on, my X has been free of any kind of trouble whatsoever - not even a rattle or out of place sound, and I cannot help but still smile every time I am around the car. It just brings happy feelings whenever I'm near it.
YAY! NO MORE NECK BRACES!
Just recently I have become an X-pert on how to press the accelerator pedal down without snapping back the neck of every person in the car. It really is lively, and I'm not a lead-foot either. I found a review where the woman testing the car accidentally put her foot down a bit too hard the first time she drove it, and not to my surprise, the car went into warp-speed.
I am also still amazed at how quiet the car is, especially when there is severe wind or I am traveling at high speeds. The cabin stays very comfortable and quiet, and speaking to passengers is easy. A recent review of some sound systems in cars in my local newspaper also said that the basic Alpine system used in the X-TYPE and other Jaguars is the clearest, best sounding system they have tested, even against the Mark Levinson system of Lexus, and they really like the premium sound package that is offered.
I can also say that the brakes in this car WORK! I had my first panic stop in this car a few weeks back, and when you want it to stop, it stops RIGHT NOW! It felt like I only traveled a car length when I slammed on the brake pedal from 55 mph. There was no screeching with the ABS, and it was actually a pretty smooth panic stop even though I nearly had to peel myself from the steeply raked windshield. Well, not quite, but I am very impressed with the braking power of this car, not that I expected anything less.
One last point, the X-TYPE corners as if it truly was on rails. On a very curvy country/mountain road that I was on this last weekend, many of the more severe curves had the special curve speed limit signs posted by them. In any other car, not taking notice of those signs before entering the curve can result in exiting the curve at an unwanted point and in an unplanned position, but the X-TYPE took them as if they were simply straight parts of the road for it to go racing through. My father was riding with me, and when I came out of a curve at 50 mph, he asked me if I had noticed the 30 mph curve speed limit sign. I was wondering why all of the cars that had been behind me disappeared after the curve. The car felt perfectly stable and composed the entire trip, almost, but not quite, defying the laws of physics and gravity out of every curve.
Well, that's all I can think of for now. I just love my X-TYPE. Best wishes everyone!
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
Oh yes, there are 90 really nice, very clear, large X-TYPE images from the free Jaguar X-TYPE prelaunch CD at this site (if you have not already found it):
They make excellent wallpaper images for computer screens. Plus, there are sections for all of the Jaguar models including the X-TYPE, with some reviews of the car and even the complete history of the leaper hood ornament. I was pleased.
If you had a Lincoln LS you'd be taking those 30 mph turns at 60-70! :-)
I'm glad to see you enjoy your LS as well. It really is a great car.
If you see a little Carnival Red X-TYPE with a very happy owner driving it come up on your tail in the twisties, don't forget to wave! You don't think I can take a curve at 70 eh? Well, we'll just have to see about that:-) See you around the corners!
I've seen a few LS's around here in the autumn red color, and I really like the look. They're pretty classy looking, and sunlight makes nice highlights on the edges of the car.
I'll change the name now to "jagboyx-type".
scottc8-
About that little challenge: You're on!
http://www.classicdesignconcepts.com/catalog/Lincoln_LS/
I still like the Autumn Red too, it looks more metallic and the sun highlights the cars in this color nicely. Type to ya later!
But Carnvallooks great IMO. Well, dad's drive is a Carnival XJ.
Weird thing is.. Burgandy, Dark Blue.. those are awful resale/saleability colors on BMW, Lexus, Mercedes... but Sapphire Blue and Carnival Red are strong colors on Jags.
Bill
Nice to see you again brentwoodvolvo.
THE ART of PERFORMANCE, A NEW BREED of JAGUAR.
As for headlights on the X, I had an American car sales lady tell me that she "really liked the headlights" of all things. They are "frenched" like the customizers used to do in the '50s.
They are bright, too! I love my X-TYPE, and I just cleaned the leather today.
I like the Mercedes too. I like its peppy power train. And I know that it will last because my sister has a 1997 E320 with 80,000 miles on it. A side from the normal wear and tear the 3.2 engine is still running as smoothly as when it was new. But the orange peel paint job was a definite turn off when I saw it up close.
I absolutely love the Lexus. I like the interior especially the wood that is very attractive and I like the sporty design. To me, the Lexus is too much like its sister the Camry. The engine, although smooth isn't a barn burner. It does get the job done adequately however. AND I HAVE HEARD ABOUT PROBLEMS WITH THIS ENGINE. LIKE HOW THE OIL WOULD OOZE AND CLOG THE ENGINE. I think that it was called "sludge." Although Toyota and Lexus do make superior cars.
And last, the Acura. I have always marveled at their engine design. I love the engine especially the "high output version." That baby just sings all the way to the red line! I like this car but I think that its styling is understated and while I can't get over the performance of this car, it just doesn't hit the right spot. It may be a great car to have and it might be the one I buy.
Ok, now that I have told you what I like about these cars I am just looking for any "INSIDE INFO." Just give me your opinion about these cars. All the cars will have automatics and all will have leather, heated seats, power everything and any other gadget that looks appealing. I WANT SAFETY( #1), performance, (#2), reliability (#3), quality (#4), sportiness (#5), and value (#6). Mind you that I want all these qualities in my car. Just give any useful info and just tell me what you think!
thanks!!!1
I would strongly suggest adding the Lincoln LS to your list. It will outhandle all the cars you mentioned and it offers a V8 nicely loaded (lots of features) for less than $40K. You can also get a great deal on a 2002 right now or pick up a used one for a song. You may not like it but you should at least test drive it before deciding.
All the choices meet the criteria. Try to stay away from first year model runs, as they tend to have more troubles, even at Lexus.
The Jag, MB, BMW,and Audi will have free maintenance for a minimum of 3 years. I know the Audi has it for 4 years/50K miles.
The ES 300 is a reliable car but its basically a glorified Camry.
The TL Acura is a great bang for the buck but its FWD like the ES 300.
You should definitely test drive all the cars before making your decision.
I have heard the Xtype is having lot of problems and some of those issues are mention in Edmunds' own reviews. I have heard the reliability is not that great either.
the BMW,MB,Audi, and Lexus are proven cars.
If you specifically want AWD, then Audi and BMW might be your only choice. You can opt for a 325XI or 330XI or the quattro models of Audi.
If you want superb dealer service, then get a Lexus, maybe even the IS300 which is RWD. You would have to like the styling and the interior.
Clearly, I would go for the German or Japanese brands.