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Now to your question. A lot of other posters have given good input, and I would say that the choice between a 2003 and a 2004 would be one made based upon your wants and needs, especially in the gadgets category and when you need to have your new car. For the most part, the current X-type and the new 2004 are generally the same car, though the 2004 does still have the bolt-on-front-end and other structural changes that could make it less expensive to repair in the event of an accident than the current model. The 2004 is also supposed to be lighter than the current car because of the structural enhancements and more aluminum and magneseum used throughout the structure. I don't have weight numbers for the new 2004 cars, and while some sources say the weight loss should gain the car some more performance, from what I know so far, it is not a massive weight loss that occured, though it may have been enough for added performance when coupled to the other updates.
The engines have been slightly refined for 2004 from what I know, so they may be more responsive (which is difficult to imagine with a nice broken-in 3.0 liter!). We also know now that with the introduction of the new Estate models also come two new six-speed transmissions for the entire range, though I don't believe they will be available on the earliest 2004's until at least the Estates make a production debut later into that year. The current five-speeds will also still be available alongside the new 6-speeds; in Europe they will still be used on entry-level X-types, so the new transmissions are not making the current ones obsolete in any way. They just offer the purchaser more choice.
Those enhancements to the structure, engine, and later the transmission (aside from the extra gear), may or may not be very aparent to the driver of the car over a 2003 model, but if they are enough to make one wish for a 2004, I would suggest waiting for the 2004 so that you can have the perfect car for you.
If those differences are not enough to sway you from the attractive lower prices on the 2003's and the Jaguar Sales Event that is going on to clear the dealers of 2003 models before 2004's arrive, then the new features that are available on the 2004's might. Everything from foreward ultra-sonic sensors to memory seats and new headrests with more positions in more directions to trim options everywhere from real racing XK180-like aluminum, carbon fiber, piano black, to the traditional woods should be available. There are many more features for 2004, but the current options available on 2003 cars are still very plentiful, and running changes such as the new dual cupholders, etc. are available now on current 2003 cars. It all just depends on what powertrain options you want, and which features you want. If you feel that you really must have and really want some of the features and options and new structural enhancements and drivetrain changes found in the 2004 models, I would suggest waiting for them simply so that you can have the exact car you want to exact specifications and be the happiest you can be with your fantastic new car. If the 2003's have all the features and options you want already - at least for the most part - and their lower prices and the sales event are factored in, then I would definitely suggest going that way. In the end, it is really all your choice, but I hope that perhaps looking at the factors this way helps you decide which way to go. Either way, you are getting a really great car that is as fun and exciting to drive as it is just to look at, and one that offers tangible luxury features and timeless styling that cannot be touched by anyone, not to mention standard AWD handling. It's all just a question of whether or not the current cars have all the features you want and how long you are willing to wait if you feel you must have features only available for '04, and whether or not the current low prices are a factor. If a 2003 has most everything you want and it has the great prices right now, then go get one! If you just must have memory seats for some reason, then wait.
Note that Jaguar makes running changes to its cars all the time, so 2004 model year changes such as the dual cup holders actually appeared as running changes in 2003 models available now. The current 2003's are almost like 2004's in most every respect but with fantastic prices on them. Jaguar also always upgrades the programming of the cars at every service, so no matter what year your car is, it will have the latest codes and work like the newest cars. You can't go wrong either way, but the prices and content in 2003 cars look pretty attractive right now. I've had my 2002 X-type since March of 2002, and even though it is not a nice new 2003 or a 2004, I have been nothing but completely satisfied and ecstatic about it in every way. I'm sure the same experience will be had by you no matter which model year you get if you choose to get an X-type. Have fun car shopping!
Thanks for the post. You still got a good deal on your 3.0. I see you are in CA, what dealer did you purchase from ? Of course, Ads do a great job getting us into the dealership and many times we buy something else. It's just a comparable deal we are looking for. I was quoted $635 with tax for a vehicle with an MSRP of $33,520 selling for $31,659. I could purchase at a low APR for less than that. Our credit is excellent so it is not a case of "not all buyers will qualify". I figured their profit was probably around $4,000. I will continue my quest on Monday by calling some Fleet Managers to locate a Jaguar I may like.
Thanks for the post. I am in San Diego where there is only one Jaguar dealer. I received a call from Galpin. Quoted $3,000 down $370pm plus tax for 36mo. MSRP $33,320 selling for 3% over invoice. They have the color I want BRG/tan auto with moonroof. Shame I have to drive so far to buy a car. Anyone in So Cal that wants the ad $279 per month, they have several in stock.
The dealer quoted my $ 413 month with no money down at all. This seems to good to be true. Is it?
Also, the sound system is not great, but the Alpine Premium Package is over $ 1,000 is it worth it?
Are you referring to radio reception or just the setup, number, or quality of the speakers in the standard system? I've found the normal system to be good, and while radio reception is lacking in the U.S. setting, I know a quick fix for that. The Alpine optional system is IMO, very good, and it beat out the Lexus M.L. system, taking top honors, in an independent test I read (I wish I had kept the article, but I'm more interested in the actual cars than their sound systems). If you don't like the standard system, I'd say the optional Alpine one is probably worth it, especially if you are going to be using it often for music instead of radio talk shows, etc. Spend a little extra and have the perfect car for you! You'll be happier in the longrun if the car is to the specification that fits you the best.
Also, the price I was asking about is a lease for 48 months @ 12K/year. Any input, I hate to negotiate and it sounds good.
http://www.autoweb.com.au/start_/showall_/id_JAG/doc_jag0308291/c- ms/news/newsarticle.html
AND
The most recent edition of Car&Driver, which is on newstands today, just finished a long-term review of their 2002 X-type. Though they had some of the old 2002 issues that have all been fixed, they gave the car a sparkling review according to those who have read it (I have yet to view the article). They also conducted an extensive AWD test, taking the car through a harsh Michigan winter and give it a "very positive review," also praising the car's styling, luxury, and surprisingly powerful engine.
Hey msiseng, if you are looking to have a 3.0 liter X-type instead of that 2.5 of yours, of which the only hinderance seems to be the lack of power in the smaller engine you've got, it looks like a 2004 3.0 could be on your list with the significant price change and added standard equipment!
I'm going to Phoenix tomorrow to car shop for my new wife. We had discounted the X-type because of our budget, so we were looking at the RSX, the Eclipse and the Accord.
Then...
...I got this email from Jaguar mentioning the lease special mentioned above, 279 a month. I've always been scared of leases having heard negative things about them from private individuals (I know they're great for businesses).
My wife LOVES Jaguars, as do I. The cool part is, in Phoenix there is a Jaguar dealer next door to the Acura dealer I was headed for.
I am planning on checking it out, but was wondering if people had had any good or bad experiences with leases.
When the concept first appeared for the X-type, I was very excited. At the time I had a decked out Mercury Mystique (also based on the Mondeo) and thought that any car which improved on that already awesome platform would be great.
By the way, when are the 2004s going to be available?
___________________________________
mjc440 - Two new 6-speeds for 2004 X-type
The X-type will get both a six-speed manual and a six-speed automatic transmission that will be offered alongside the current five-speeds for 2004. Sources say that the five speed is to become the entry-level transmission for the car, being used on models like the 2.1 liter in Europe. The six-speeds will be available on both the 2.5 and 3.0 liter X-type models in the U.S., and I believe they will be priced like the current five speeds are now - a no cost option on the 3.0 and a slight markup for the auto in the 2.5 - but that is just speculation.
However, I don't think that the six-speeds will be available for 2004 right off the bat. I believe they will be introduced during the 2004 model year as a "running change" at about the time of the introduction of the Estates or much earlier, but I could easily be wrong here too. Sometime in 2004, the X-type will have six-speeds though.
With the narrowing of the price difference on the 3.0 liter and the added standard equipment such as the standard power sunroof, folding seats, standard wood and leather steering wheel (with your choice of aluminum, walnut, maple, gray-stained wood, bronze-stained wood, piano black, etc.) you may also want to look at it since it will have more power than the 2.5 liter. Granted, Jaguar's use of some aluminum and magnesium in the re-engineered frame and the bolt-together technology lightened the cars a bit, and the new engine tweaks made them cleaner burning and more responsive with the drivetrain, but as the saying goes, "there's no replacement for displacement." The manual and 2.5 makes a fast car, but the 3.0 with either transmission choice is simply a rocket that can take everything on the road save for the Lamborghini I saw yesterday. And in 2004, it costs just $3,000 more than the 2.5 and comes with over $2,000 in new features as standard that used to be cost options.
Yesterday the dealer let me drive a manual 2.5 even after disclosing to him that I've never owned a car with a manual and that this would be the first time I'd be driving a manual on the road. I drove it in traffic and on a winding country road - I couldn't believe how smooth-shifting and easy to drive the manual was - I only stalled it once (in the parking lot). The 2.5 in manual form has ample power - and the engine loves to rev. (I drove the auto earlier and it didn't seem like it had too much pep because the auto would not stay in the lower gear long enough to make the engine scream.)
You mentioned that the 2.5 - 3.0 spread will only be $3K for 2004 - Does this mean that the 2.5 starting price will remain at $30K and the 3.0 will start at $33K? - or will they raise the price of the 2.5 and keep the 3.0's price flat?
Thanks.
New 2003 2.5 X-Type, Manual Trans, non-metallic paint (black)
The only options are: 1.) single disc CD player (a Jag that doesn't come with a CD player???) and 2.) Xenon headlights.
I can't go any higher than $24,500. There is no trade & I will buy outright with CASH (no lease or loan).
How reasonable is this offer?
Guess I'll drive this for a few years and dream about the "R". Live and learn.
JAG
Yes, I definitely think you could get your deal. A bunch of people at other boards that we cannot mention here have been snatching up X-type 2.5's optioned similarly to the one you seem to be interested in, and in the better deals, they got about $4,000 discounts. $29,000 - $4,000 = $25,000, and I'm sure the dealer would knock off a little more since you are doing a CASH deal, so $25,000 - $500 = $24,500! You've got yourself a deal! That was fun! Some people have even reported basic manual transmission cars going for $22,000, so I think you could easily get it for the price you want.
________________________________________
toofragus -
It's a good life when we can complain about our Jaguars not being the most up-to-date versions out there! :-) I'm happy about the 2004's - Jaguar is staying competitive and making the best cars it can. I got the one that I liked, so I can't complain. I can understand being annoyed with your dealer if he lied to you (or was just oblivious to what was going on, as he should be knowledgible). But we all chose the cars that fit what we wanted and needed, knowing that later sometime there would be tweaks done to the car; it doesn't make the earlier cars lesser at all.
________________________________________
X-type risiduals over a 36 month period have now been forecasted as increasing from 46% to 49% over the same period of time thanks to the 2004's! The new 3.0 pricing finally makes the car price competitive too. All of Jaguar's sales are down this year, as they were "artificially high" because of how they had been pushed last year. Jaguar predicted that all of its sales would be down this year, so they expected things to turn out how they've been going. However, the X-type looks like it is going to be just shy of its original 30,000 cars per year sales target with the way it's been going, and it's still making up half of Jaguar's sales, so it's doing what it's supposed to do even with the dead economy. The article fails to note that X-type was never intended to sell in volumes over 30,000 per year in the United States when comparing it to less exclusive cars, but it highlights some of the new news for 2004:
http://www.autoweek.com/cat_content.mv?port_code=autoweek&cat- - - _code=carnews&loc_code=index&content_code=04872339
I picked up the September Car and Driver and saw nothing about Jags. Did I miss it or is my bookstore late in stocking the most recent issue?
JAG
Speaking of magazines, I liked the Autocar coverstory, which read: "Why Jaguar now builds a better car than BMW." Aparently, the '04 5-Series is not that hot to drive, and the S-type is the best drivers car of its class. The 5 was called "average" and the Mercedes E-Class was called "mediocre." I thought that was too harsh, but still, it's about time people started figuring out how good the Jaguars really are. We've known this for years, but it took the automotive press long enough to figure out. Autospies even found the article, and did their own writeup as well:
http://www.imakenews.com/autospies/e_article000179084.cfm
Here's a scan of the cover of that edition of Autocar:
http://a298.g.akamai.net/7/298/5382/082903015613/www.eletra.com/a- - - - - utospies/word_images/9964712_image001.jpg
I'm wondering what happened with the press, since all the Jags are getting good writeups when they used to always get the lowest scores in the pack. I guess Jaguar finally began paying them off. Even the XK8 got rated third in the latest Road & Track comparison, but the best it used to be able to do was last place, even behind the Ford Thunderbird. It seemed as if the magazine editors would have rated a Miata over the XK. But now, one of the editors is looking for a used XK8 that he can afford - but they've tested the XK8 so many times I can't count them all, why would they just figure this out now? Wouldn't that editor have purchased a used one already if he liked it from another test. Surely all of the tests of the supercharged XKR convertible that came out months and years before this one would have inspired him to go get one more than yet another drive in the normal XK8? Not that I am complaining about this. I'm very happy about the good writeups for all the Jags, but the way they change their minds and suddenly are all-for the underdog Jaguars only fuels my suspicion that everything the automotive press says has some other motive behind it... I just can't put my finger on it yet, but I'm looking for patterns in their behavior... I probably just jinxed the Jags.
Two questions for anyone who can answer:
1.) Approx when will the 6-speed be available (Jagboy was right in saying it would not be available in the early 2004s - so how long will we need to wait)
2.) The option Xenon headlamps - are they located in the outer headlight assemblies? In the 2003 brochure, it mentions the optional Xenon lights but shows a picture of the inner headlight assembly. Is this a misprint in the brochure?
Thanks.
I find the power more than adequate, the transmission and shift linkage very nice except for a bit of a long throw from 2nd to 3rd gear.
The ride and handling are very good, a mix of sportiness and grace. Very feline in it's gracefulness. The AWD system is very good and the rearward power bias leads to very neutral handling.
The sound system has nice sound but the radio reception is kind of weak. I did perform the change from US to the European settings (it does work the same with the CD player) but I felt the sound quality suffered more than any reception gain I obtained so I set it back to the US setting.
Fuel mileage has been consistent 21-22 MPG with no highway trips yet.
The styling and color continue to be a delight and the interior is very comfortable and has an inviting ambience.
Overall I am very pleased with this car and feel this is a true Jaguar. Having had the opportunity to drive all of the current Jaguar vehicles (except the R types) I feel the X-type is true to the marque in it's feel and performance. Of course as always YMMV.
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
Autocar recently announced of the Jaguar AJ-V6 engines that power the X-type and the S-type:
"Merc engine cleanest but coarse; BMW straight six sounds good but Jaguar's
Ford-derived V6 is best"
I've been saying this all along.
www.autocarmagazine.co.uk
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
The new SIX-Speeds, my opinion:
Jaguars are luxury sports cars, with luxury not being simply better accomadations than your average vehicle, but excessively better than average. No one NEEDS a 6-speed transmission in these cars because of the power of their engines, but no one NEEDS a luxury car like a Jaguar or any of its competitors either. But we are not going on necessity here, we are going on what is best in order to best the competition and offer more than they can. The rest of the Jaguar line already has 6-speed transmissions, the X-type getting two new 6-speeds is simply the natural evolution of the car. If it's Born to Perform, it is going to have much more than anyone needs, including gears, but why get any luxury sports car like a Jaguar if you don't want something better than what's only necessary? Jaguar gives you six gears, not because you need them out of pure necessity, but because they want to offer more than you need. The five-speeds are great, the six-speeds are an improvement on greatness. Nothing wrong with doing your best and then besting yourself, and that's what Jaguar is doing. It's the same reason that the X-type comes standard with real wood and leather - all hand finished - while everyone else still offers plastic and cloth.
I am considering larger tires, 17in.instead of 16in. I have been told that there are some pluses in handling but a bit of comfort is lost as well? Is this correct?
JAG
More gears in a transmission lead to more complexity, more expense, and more possibility of breakage due to the necessary downsizing of the additional gears and related parts to fit into the transmission case.
Jagboxtoy's post confirms the marketing requirement and in today's market it is probably a necessity, but it does not change the fact that it would be functionally useless in the current Jaguar vehicles. I believe in the old saying "KISS" or "Keep it simple stupid" when it comes to engineering in vehicles. Thinking like this might have saved BMW from I-drive. I certainly can understand and appreciate new useful technology in vehicles, I just have a problem with marketing driven "improvements" that provide little or no functional benefits. But this is just my opinion and doesn't make anyone else's opinion less valuable or incorrect. (I have actually been known to have been wrong in my life, imagine that)
"The overall gear-ratio spread is 6.01, just missing te current champ, the six-speed ZF automatic's 6.04. The larger that number, the better the performance and fuel economy."
CD points out that this new AT is nearly the same weight as the 5-speed it replaces. And that it boosts fuel economy by 5% and reduces acceleration to 62 mph by 0.3 seconds. A true win-win all around!
Designers have to take into account the output curve of the engine and the selected axle ratio. Overall ratio is the individual gear ratio multiplied by the final drive ratio. The overall spread is just the overall ratio in first gear minus the overall ratio in top gear.
A great example is the Acura 3.2TL Type S. Uses a 5-speed automatic. Has an overall spread of around 5.50, which is fantastic for 5-speed AT. Check out its acceleration figures and fuel economy estimates. Both are fantastic. They couldn't do it well with a 4-speed. Shift quality would be horrible if the difference in overall ratio between gears is too big.
JAG
Your missed shift issue might hold for racing. But we are talking about production cars being driven on the road by us average Joes and Janes. [Even then, racers don't use 1-, 2-, or 3-speed trannys any more.]
As for missing shifts, I still occasionally do that myself, especially if I'm trying to rush my shifts. But like I said, my take on the necessity on six speed transmissions in Jaguars is my own personal opinion. I still feel the additional complexity is not justified by the potential benefits. It doesn't really matter what I think to the manufacturer though, they will make the decision based on demand by the public.
My opinion is that 6 speeds is probably "enough". But who knows, maybe in 5 years, 7 speeds will be the norm. Automakers are trying their best to "out gear" the competition. Just 5 years ago, having a 5 speed auto was a something special.
Does anyone remember in the 50s that GM's automatic was a 2 speed!
1) smoother clutch uptake and a short throw 6 speed
2)A 6 speed auto with a better automanual than the J-gate
3) Electronic parking brake like on S type
4) More wood and chrome on the sport package
5) that's about it.... all the sneak preview of the 04 upgrades seem to address most of my other nit picks.
6) oh ya... How about a quantum leap improvement in quality control and reliability compared to my 02
I know I must be the exception but honestly its been back over 15 times for unscheduled repairs
On the six-speeds, Auto Express recently wrote in their "First Look" at the X-type Estate:
"Gearbox choice will be equally wide [as engine choice, which was mentioned in the paragraph before this one]. Entry-level cars will have a five-speed manual, with buyers of flagship models getting a choice of manual and automatic boxes, both offering six ratios."
U.S. X-types will get the two six-speeds and the current five-speeds will either continue on basic versions of the car, or be restricted to the basic versions of the car sold in Europe or on the diesel. The five speeds may be restricted to base European cars when the six-speeds arrive in the U.S.
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"Great Body, Good Legs, and as with Most Beauties, an Inclination to be Tempermental" and "Better with Age" C&D and R&T respective Long Term raves!
Car&Driver and Road&Track both have Long-Term X-type updates. Aparently, they had pretty problematic cars (they seem to have had every early production issue the car has had), but now the cars are working "like a Swiss watch" and have been "running flawlessly for quite some time;" and they say the only complaints about the cars are the manual transmission clutches, the feel of which they dislike. Aside from that, they are enthusiastic about the X-type, even noting that though it initially scored poorly in their first comparison tests, it was because they "couldn't decide what to make of the new cat," being skeptical about a new Jaguar in a new market, but now "despite a slow start [in their warming-up to the car], it appears this Jag is ready to run" and that the car only gets "better with age," which was also the title of the R&T update. "Editors continue to laud the X-type for its crisp exterior lines, classy interior, comfortable front seats and the ample passing power of the 3.0-liter V-6." An editor's note from Car & Driver says, "I enjoy driving this Jaguar more than other Jag models. The X-type actually feels 'sporty' for a Jaguar." C&D also noted that their car got better with age as well, as performance in the 0-60 and quarter mile improved over time (see, I've been saying it has to be broken in a bit and then it refines itself over time). AWD they said was blizzard proof. They end saying that "after 13 months, it's clear the X-type has many traditional Jaguar virtues: elegant styling, good power, amd a smooth, comfortable, quiet ride." Another editor's note said "Great power, fairly fun to drive, and it feels like a Jag as opposed to a Ford in sheep's clothes." So, again it has proved to be a real Jaguar - they don't even question that anymore. They both loved the power, styling, ride, and quietness of the X-type, and though they could have done without having to have ironed out the initial troubles from early production cars, they mentioned that even the issues themselves "did not damage the Jaguar's popularity" with them so much as having to wait for the parts themselves. Road&Track has been enjoying the X-type Jag so much that they had to include a speeding ticket in the spent money category! The articles can be found in the October 2004 issues of Car&Driver and Road&Track.
http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/news/ae_news_story.php?id=39823
For example, BMW made some changes to the 3 Series coupes and convertibles in the spring of 2003. Those cars are considered MY2004s, even though the MY 2003 cycle doesn't normally end until later this CY and they are being sold along side MY2003 sedans being built at the exact same time.
So if a revised X-type comes out after 1/1/04, Jaguar can, if they want, call them as MY2005s. The car mags were primarily focused on MY2004s.
I have no idea how European model year cycles work.
The good news is that it's obvious that the 2.5L is being phased out. The price reduction and added standard features for the 3.0 have just about wiped out the financial incentive to buy the 2.5. I expect it will be offered with little or no options in economical lease deals.
I predict that in the next 3-4 years, the 3.0 will be the base model. The upgrade will be either a V-8 or an "R" version.
Get ready to rock!
JAG