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Jaguar X-Type

2456750

Comments

  • thebandleaderthebandleader Member Posts: 53
    AWD is not particularly comfy, but it is much safer.

    As I said earlier, I have a RWD now, and it is fun, but I would take the safety of AWD anyday. Perhaps those who want RWD live somewhere where there is no significant levels of snow or ice. A few harrowing experiences in either will convince you pretty quickly.

    When CD's came out, people insisted that vinyl was still superior. After many years, it is obvious (except for a few diehards) that CD's are vastly better. Someday we may look back and say, "Remember when people used just the front or rear wheels to drive the car?" "Yeah, it was fun, but not very safe eh?" "Kinda like the flat windshield, oil burning lights and front drum brakes..."

    (OK OK ... I'm exagerating ... but perhaps not too much...)
  • leogenghisleogenghis Member Posts: 22
    I drive an Alfa Romeo and "fun to drive" is very important to me. (as to most car enthusiasts!) How are Jaguars rated generally in "fun to drive"? I'm not sure if I'm correct, but recent Jaguars are more stately than sporty, and none were available with a manual. The X-type seems to be the first one to break the mold, plus add AWD. I've test driven both the AWD Audi A4 and RWD Mercedes E-class, and though they have power and finesse, they rate low on the fun scale. I haven't driven BMW, but supposedly they're better. Funny thing is, though my Alfa is FWD, it's a lot more involving and fun than anything else I've ever driven. Where does Jaguar fit in?

    Leo
  • giowagiowa Member Posts: 599
    I think some of the AWD partisans are missing a key point. The X-type is a FWD vehicle which was converted to AWD. That is different than designing an AWD vehicle from scratch or taking a RWD vehicle and turning it into AWD.

    Check out the 3/01 C&D Preview Report. As they put it, most of the WEIGHT of the TRANSVERSE ENGINE is AHEAD of the FRONT AXLE CENTERLINE! That causes a pronounced 60/40 front to rear weight imbalance, a lot like your average FWDer (which might be as high as 65/35 imbalanced).

    There is a huge driving difference between an AWD car with 50/50 balance and one with 60/40 balance. I much prefer the former to the latter. And I would much prefer the former balance in a RWD car to the latter balance in an AWD car. Too much weight is up front. And those are drive wheels. Even taking into account the 40/60 front to rear torque split, no LSD.
  • arcoatesarcoates Member Posts: 221
    Thank you very much. I was trying to make that point much earlier, that although it is AWD, there is such a front bias that it will behave like a FWD car, no matter what they say. I don't care what wheels are being driven, if the front is too heavy, it will push.

    And although Jaguar owners seldom actually drive their cars, if they are asked to, they will respond. The Jaguar is no Japanese car, but it is also no German car. It is designed to be luxury-sport, whereas BMW in particular is sport-luxury. The Japanese are just floaty luxury in my opinion, but that's another discussion.~ A.R.
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    $29,950 according to blueovalnews.com quoting Jaguar North America President Mike O'Driscoll.
  • giowagiowa Member Posts: 599
    That $29,950 is for a base no-option 2.5L. And does that include destination? If not, that puts real base MSRP about $30,500. If the options and prices are anything like BMW 3 Series, dealers won't likely have any $30,000 units on lots. Don't think I've ever seen a new BMW 3 Series with a sticker under $32K and most end up being 328i at $34-42K. Even the 323i on lots sticker for $31-36K. The price range on 3 Series goes from about $27-44K. It is amazing how many options and how expensive they are on 3 Series. Add a few packages and you add $5K. Thought C&D said X-type price range might be $30-40K.
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    I didn't imply you could buy one for that amount. You have to add destination and options. I would expect the base package and options to be similar to the s-type. My guess is a nicely optioned but not top of the line x-type would sticker around $32-$34K and unless they're in extremely high demand you should be able to drive off with one for $30 - $32K.

    BTW - nice posts lately. Keep it up.
  • thebandleaderthebandleader Member Posts: 53
    I had a 95 Mystique V6 with a 5sp (I know, I've said that before). It was a blast to drive. That opinion was backed up by every professional critic who reviewed the platform. The x-type is on the same, but improved Mondeo platform. The only addition is AWD, which should only add weight to the rear.

    My guess is it will be fun to drive.
  • neekerneeker Member Posts: 10
    What is the deal with the backhanded comments regarding the j-gate shifter on the Jaguar auto trans? Almost every article I've read on the x-type makes some sort of weird analogy without really explaining what the deal is. The C/D article indicated that they received 'assurances that the engineers had fixed the quirky j-gate shifter.' Can one of you describe what they mean ? Thanks.
  • rea98drea98d Member Posts: 982
    On a Jag Transmission shifter, the PRND go from front to back like most cars. But to shift it into 3, you move the shifter to the left, then up for 2, and further up for 1. It makes a "J" pattern and has been a Jaguar triat (read quirk) since the XJ40 model was released in the late 80's. One of the first "sport" shift patterns on an automatic. While other car makers have done ergonomic studies to make sport shift patterns a little more natural, Jag has done it that way because they've always done it that way. Typical British engineering.
  • dmallinderdmallinder Member Posts: 35
    It's not like many of these will be towing trailers or, assuming AWD, even stick in the snow.

    Seems like a nitpicky thing to worry about to me.
  • neekerneeker Member Posts: 10
    That's kind of why I asked the question regarding the shifter. When you read some of the articles these guys put out though it's easy to read the bias, its sometimes hard to figure out how it colors the article. I (unfortunately) will probably look at the automatic and wanted to know if was an issue of usage or reliability...and it seems that reliability isn't really the problem, but that its more of usability issue.
  • giowagiowa Member Posts: 599
    I say 5-4-3-2-1 and vice versa is critical, all the time everyday. Only way to go with X-type will be manual transmission. Anything less and you might as well buy a Lexus ES300, Chrysler 300M, Cadillac DeVille, etc. Why pay more for an automatic that saps power, limits driver capabilities, reduces fun, and just looks to utilitarian??? Hope Jag gets the percentage manual sales up to BMW 3 Series levels!!!
  • logic1logic1 Member Posts: 2,433
    And Ford has several good manuals it can use in the Jag. Unfortunately, Mateja, the Chicago Tribune auto critic quoted a Jag product rep who said Jag expects to sell 10% manual. I cannot say for certain, but I believe BMW 3 series sales are at least 40% manual.
  • giowagiowa Member Posts: 599
    All you end up doing is hitting people in the rear. Us lazy Americans need to get off our obese duffs and learn to appreciate driving. Pure driving pleasure comes only in a manual tranny. Those cheezy manu-matics/shiftronic slushboxes can't even begin to compete. Jag had better want to compete with BMW 3 Series, Saab, and Volvo and not Lexus & Infiniti & Cadillac.
  • logic1logic1 Member Posts: 2,433
    Jag's stated goal is to sell 85k Jag X cars per year. While I am sure the engineers would appreciate it if the Jag X got those sales at BMW's expense, most likely Jag sales will take whatever market share they can get. Ford has the size and resources to crank out 85k manuals and the tighter sports supensions a year. It is going to be up to the buyers to demand them. I know if I buy, I will.
  • is4b2rdis4b2rd Member Posts: 66
    Although there is something to be said for driving dynamics, let's be real here. The X-Type is going to be one gorgeous car. Frankly, I think it is is more elegant looking and has a more timless design (tied to the jags from the 60's) than the 3-series or C-Class. As long as Jag does the interior correctly, and not riddle it with hard plastic pieces that you can see and touch, the car will be awesome.
  • logic1logic1 Member Posts: 2,433
    I agree. It is a great looking car. Some of the other posters seem to be upset because Jag realizes many potential buyers are buying looks and luxury and not the sports feel the posters want in their car. In other words, Jag should only make the car they want, not the car the market wants.

    Facts are that Jag is going to offer a manual and a sports tuned suspension but not offer rwd (at least not yet). If a buyer wants rwd, the buyer will have to go elsewhere. If elsewhere is BMW or C-Class, the buyer is going to get a lot less good looks for the dollar. If Jag still sells 85k Jag X's per year, they won't miss those who jump over to BMw or C-Class. If Jag cannot meet its market expectations, it either kills the car or re-engineers.
  • dmallinderdmallinder Member Posts: 35
    I would also suggest that buyers of such entry-level luxury cars who would prefer the real world safety and traction of FWD or AWD are a much bigger market than sports car purists who think a little torque steer is the end of the world. Such drivers have many other choices in that price segment already, but AWD luxury is right now pretty much the sole province of Audi. BMW and MB have a couple of models, but at different points in either the price ( E class ) or luxury (330Xi) scale to the X class or A4 and A6 series.

    Jaguar will sell more cars to affluent safety-conscious people who look for elegance and a smidgeon of exclusivity than they would ever wrest from the established and ephemeral "drivers car" market owned by BMW.
  • giowagiowa Member Posts: 599
    Looking over posts 67-70, guess Saab and Volvo better be concerned about losing market share. If you are all right, and I guess you got the demographics on your side (haven't Americans watched our obesity rates skyrocket while our educational test scores plummet over the past 30 years), all a Jag needs to do is look pretty, have real wood, and say Jag. Should it also keep electrical problems for tradition sake? Heck, we can all forget about E-types, racing history, etc. In a world of bland Lexus ES300s, Infiniti I30s, Cadillac Cateras, etc. is being above average all that is needed?

    Praying Jag ensures there is a decent, real Sport Package. That way all those looking for an average car that looks pretty & has the right name & wows the neighbors while sitting in the driveway can get what they want... and those who enjoy driving can get one that yearns to be driven and driven hard. Fair enough.

    I can only hope Jag doesn't forget its sporting roots. Hope Jag Racing Green isn't turned into Key Lime Pie Green!!! :)
  • logic1logic1 Member Posts: 2,433
    Presumably Ford wants Jag to take sales from Saab but not Volvo.
  • mvargo1mvargo1 Member Posts: 298
    The X-type is Targeted directly against the ix version of the 3 series, the A4 quattro, and people considering the C-class or IS300 but want the saftey of AWD.

    The sport Pkg will offer 17" low profile tires, a sport tuned suspention, DSC, perforated connolly hides for the seats, steering wheel and shift knob, and body colored moldings.

    Eventually, most likely approx 18 months after introduction an "R" supercharged version with over 300HP will be introduced
  • rea98drea98d Member Posts: 982
    How can you get a "smidgin of exclusivity" at a $29,995 pricetag? Before the S-Type came out, I don't think you could get into a new XJ8 or XK8 for less that $50,000, could you?
  • shehzadshehzad Member Posts: 52
    I'm looking into the X-type, and I went to their website www.x-type.com--they don't even offer it in British racing green, which is the only color that I'd purchase a jag in in the first place. And I think that a lot of people that are interested in these "smidgeons of exclusivity" would tend to agree with me. It's interesting though, as one of the colors does, and I guess this is directed to you giowa, actually look like key lime pie green. I don't know what they're thinking.
  • giowagiowa Member Posts: 599
    No racing green? But there will be key lime pie-like green? Will there also be pea green? Baby puke green? My head is reeling from the thoughts. What you are saying is like imagining England without the monarchy, Prince Charles without his facial features, the Labour Party without unions, the Euro replacing the pound, London becoming like Omaha. It is all a dream. I will wake up!
  • pmvipmvi Member Posts: 63
    Emerald green looks similar to "British Racing Green". What's wrong with it?

    I noticed that in the UK they offer 3 different shades of blue, but in the US there will only be one.

    At first glance, I prefer the Titanium (charcoal gray) or Platinum (silver). It's usually hard to tell from pictures though---especially web photos.
  • leogenghisleogenghis Member Posts: 22
    I tend to agree with giowa - this "emerald" isn't the deep, solid dark green we know as "British Racing", but rather like the color they say when people go "green in the face" with envy or something - light, mushy, key lime pie-like green. Me no like it.
  • giowagiowa Member Posts: 599
    Check out the 2/01 issue of BBC Top Gear, an English car magazine. Have a review of the Jag S-type 4.0L Sport. Costs about 38,400 pounds (which is well over $50K). Forgot if it went 0-60 mph or 0-100 kph in 6.6 secs. Has big 18 inch tyres. Package costs about 3,500 pounds (around $5k). Too bad US Jag doesn't do this for S-type here. They need something to fight BMW 5 Series in the under $60,000 price range. Hope US Jag has a viable Sport Pkg for X-type.
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    is coming to the US (2002 my IIRC). Don't remember the details, though. I would definitely expect a sport version of the X-type with the future supercharger.

    Hmmm...3.0L supercharged Duratech...I wonder where else they could use that?
  • thebandleaderthebandleader Member Posts: 53
    There is a nice article in it.

    Again, I ask the question:

    Should the new Jag be better or nostalgic?

    I think they took the proper route.
  • icdchessicdchess Member Posts: 83
    The most active discussion board for the new S-Type Jaguar and now the X-Type as well, with over 840 members, has a new, easy to remember address: Jagtalk.com. Come visit us and

    participate or just read. It's free and nothing is sold there.

    You may sign up at http://www.jagtalk.com/

    Steve
  • rea98drea98d Member Posts: 982
    Should a new Jag be better or nostalgic?
    Well, they've got the look like a Jag, and from the pictures I've seen, the interior is definately Jaguar, so *if* it rides as well as a Jag and handles as well as a Jag, then why should it matter if they use parts from a Ford, Chevy, Hyundai, or whatever? Jag's been outsourcing parts for ages.
  • mvargo1mvargo1 Member Posts: 298
    Swallow coachbuilding company. Used to not even buils their own cars. They rebodied other vehicles. Swallow Sidcars eventually becoming SS cars, who became SS Jaguar. Renamed Jaguar after WWII When SS was no longer politically correct.
  • mvargo1mvargo1 Member Posts: 298
    Just to clarify according to both Jaguar's training materials and the downloadable Brochure the X-Type will be available in the following colors: White Onyx, BRITISH RACING GREEN, Phoenix Red, Anthracite, Carnival Red, Emerald, Topaz, Platinum, Titanium, and Adriatic Blue.

    The web site colors are for demonstration only.

    I'm sorry but the other poster was correct. Emerald is a dark green like BRG but metallic. It is not a light green. The only light green Jag offers is the mint green seafrost on the s-type. Although for an extra grand or so Jag will paint the car any color you want.
  • rea98drea98d Member Posts: 982
    Hmmm.....A neon orange Jaguar? This could get interesting.
  • jbwcfpjbwcfp Member Posts: 86
    How many people drive BMW's because they like to drive them and how many drive them because they want to be seen driving one. A couple of years ago while driving my expedition (glad its gone) around a wide curve, I had to put my brakes on for a women driving a 540i, there was no one in front of her and the sign said 'slow to 40mph' and she did, I was going 50 drifting with the expedition, someone try to tell me she had the BMW because she enjoyed the wonderful handling. There are many people that will drive cars, not for how they handle, but for being seen in them. I hope the x-type will be both. I currently have a Lincoln LS v8 and can't wait to drive the x-type 3.0 manual. I'm extending my lease to hopefully get the x-type, but it must satisfy my urge to drive. I'm also hoping the '02 LS has a 6 speed manual.
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    Actually I think there is a third category of drivers - those that drive a because they like the styling (interior and exterior) and amenities/safety devices, not for how it drives or just because it's a prestige brand. My wife likes cars with round headlights (Mercedes CLK, Jag S-type) but could care less about the handling or the prestige factor. I let her drive my LS on some twisty roads and she almost got sick.

    No major changes are planned for the 02 LS. There won't be a V8 manual for sure and I doubt if they'll change the V6 5-speed to a 6-speed. However, Lincoln is planning to build a "baby LS" similar to the x-type but NOT built on the mondeo platform. There are also rumours of a supercharged 3.0L duratech which could be used on the S-type, LS, X-type and baby LS in the future. Since the new mustang is being built on a shortened DEW98 platform that would be my guess for the baby LS platform as well. Both should handle great.
  • logic1logic1 Member Posts: 2,433
    Akirby:

    I am interested in learning more about the baby LS. Are there sites where you learned about this? It may bode well for the Mustang if Ford is thinking of a tweeking its platform to the point where it would be worthy of the Lincoln moniker.
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    Sorry for the OT post but your email wasn't in your profile. I haven't seen much in the press about the "baby ls" but I think blueovalnews.com mentioned it recently. It was confirmed by the Lincoln engineers and management at the Lincoln LS get together in Irvine last month but I don't remember the details or timeframes. You could post the question in the LS forum - I'm sure someone remembers the details. The mustang is already planning to use a shortened and most likely cheaper version of the DEW98 in 2003 so that would be my guess for the baby ls if it doesn't share the X-type platform.
  • murrietamurrieta Member Posts: 10
    Can anyone assist with the pricing policy available with the "X" Plan purchasing discount available on Jaguar products? With all Ford products using the "X" plan you can get Ford and Mazda products at 1.5% below invoice. I am sure that Jaguar would not have that low of a price available, but they do offer the "X" plan and wondered what their agreement is for the plan. Ford Motor Company Suppliers, employees, and members of certain groups qualify for the "X" plan. Thanks for your help
  • robnisrobnis Member Posts: 78
    I work just as hard as those who work for Ford and their suppliers. Maybe even harder than some in fact. I have purchased 5 SHOS in a row since 1989. I have been a loyal customer. Where is my X plan? Or am I a victim of prejudice? Actually I was considering the "Baby Jag" as it seems to have the potential for being a nice car; however, special rights for the favored few leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Is this oneof the reasons we pay such a high price for cars, because a favored few get perks the rest of the consumers have to pay for? Convince me to still by your Jag!
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    X and A plans are benefits, not rights. Benefits are considered part of the employee's total compensation and in some cases are even taxable. Most companies that produce products or provide services offer some type of employee discount. If you want the vehicle discount, get a job with Ford or Jaguar.
  • pluskinpluskin Member Posts: 79
    Not widely known, is that Ford employees are now able to give out a certain number of X-plan discounts, in the same manner that they can give A-plan discounts to their relatives. X-plan is equal to A-plan + 4%. If you know any Ford employees, they should be able to hook you up.
  • murrietamurrieta Member Posts: 10
    Thanks for the information on the "X" plan. We have the benefits available to our family but did not know the particulars on Jaguar and were unable to get information from Ford regional on what was offered for Jaguar. I am going to contact Jaguar U.S. offices today and find out what the plan offers. Our local Jaguar dealer is very hesitant to offer any discounts at all on the "S" class and I felt that if we could use our "X" plan it would help in pricing. It seemed unlikely that Jaguar would offer the same package of 1.5% below invoice as for most other Ford products and I didn't want to approach the dealership expecting that discount if it was not available.
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    I think the 1.5% below invoice may be the A plan price. If the X plan price is A plan + 4% then that's 2.5% over invoice. I think X plan is basically a good, no haggle price but not necessarily better than you could do on your own.
  • murrietamurrieta Member Posts: 10
    A Kirby

    Your information is correct on the Jag. pricing and appreciate your input. The "A" plan is 1.5% below and is for employees only, while the "X" plan is a derivative and spreads out to more groups, families, etc., and is indeed 2.5% over invoice, available only on the "S" and upcoming "X", but not on any other Jaguar products. This will give us something to work with when visiting the dealer and will see what works best. We have really been impressed with the "S" styling since the car was first announced and finally will be able to enjoy owning and driving one.
  • mvargo1mvargo1 Member Posts: 298
    A/Z plan is for current or retired Ford employees. X plan is similer but available to a few other people. The A/Z plan is a better deal than the X plan. But either one is a good deal. Most car companies have a similer plan for employees and associates. Nissan has a VPP plan that is very similer. It is designed to encourage poeple to drive what they build.
  • jbwcfpjbwcfp Member Posts: 86
    X-type is getting lots of publicity in all the major car rags. US introduction is a Hollywood extravaganza March 18th, I suppose we will have actual road tests in about a month. X-type also named most significant automobile at the Geneva auto show by Auto Week Magazine. Can't wait to read about the road tests.
    Jim
  • giowagiowa Member Posts: 599
    C&D has a nice 2-page Preview of the X-type. They didn't get to drive one, but looked it over and report some details about price, options, design, etc.
  • pluskinpluskin Member Posts: 79
    Technically, A/X plan discounts are available on all Jaguars (except maybe XKR & XJR). However, it is always up to the dealer whether or not they will sell it at that price. If they can already sell their stock at higher margins than A-plan provides, then they may not want to.
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