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would determine what you should buy..
everybody go look at the "MAINTINENCE AND REPAIRS" section of this forum..EVRYCAR LINE IS MENTIONED.....so to worry if you car is not going to have problems....forget it.....most do have something go wrong sometime...even it's just a dead battery....that can be percieved as problem...depending on when it happens to you.
I bought a passat,,,yes I'm concerned about all the horror stories.....the car fits my needs (cargo space/afforablitly) I also like the looks of the car......so I bought it...by the way, as of 2002 they have a 4 yr 50,000 b to b warrenty 5yr 60,000 power train.
IF I had more $$ it would be a E320 station wagon, no questions. they actually have usable cargo space! but 50,000.00 is out of my range.
VOLVO, SAAB, Audi, Subaru, Saturn, Taurus, etc. they're all good cars to someone....which it a good car FOR YOU.....only you can decide.....
If was really rich,,,I might have one of each!
-people that have successfully haggled for a lower price when buying a certified used car
-people that have met resistance when asking the cert. used car dealership if they can take the car to their own mechanic
-and people that have been persuaded NOT to buy the car they wanted because of comments on a chat board like edmunds' town hall.
If any of these apply to you, please call 212-830-9275 or send your email to rmalkin@hearst.com It it helpful to include your name and phone number. Please respond by March 15. As always, you can also contact Jeannine Fallon, RR Director for Edmunds.com, if you have questions about this process. Thanks for your participation.
Revka
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Hatchbacks & Station Wagons Boards
Revka
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Hatchbacks & Station Wagons Boards
They didn't have a sedan that met all the criteria but they had a '98 CPO wagon in Melange (metallic tan). It was in such good shape that I said "A wagon's fine".
Since we have no kids and also own a SAAB 900
Hatchback, we really didn't need a wagon. If you want a wagon that'll haul around a family or any significant cargo the A4 is not for you, you want the Passat or the A6 or possibly a V70.
On the other hand the A4Q will hold it's own with any sports sedan--it's just a ball to drive (especially w. good tires and sport suspension) and the AWD gives it a utility that's not available in most other wagons.
2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93
If you are around at 6-7 pm Pacific Time or 9-10 ET please join us. And don't forget to fill out the interesting survey in the Chat area as well. Here's the link: http://www.edmunds.com/townhall/chat/subarumaintenancechat041802.html
Thanks!
Revka
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Revka
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Hatchbacks & Station Wagons Boards
Our current vehicles are a '90 Volvo 740 sedan and a '98 Ford Explorer. The 740 is the car that will be replaced. It is currently my commuter car and sits on weekends. My wife uses the Explorer for around town with the kids (5 & 2) and it is our primary vehicle for shopping, trips etc.
When we first looked at upgrading we concentrated on sedans, but now feel a station wagon could be used not only as a commuter, but could replace/compliment the explorer as a weekend car.
Safety is our primary concern, as is build and comfort. We've narrowed our choices to with either a 98-99 Volvo V70, 99 VW Passat, or the 98-99 Audi A4 Avant(at high end of our budget).
My wife prefers an automatic so we're looking primarily at those. I welcome any and all advice with regard to the above vehicles.
With regard to the Passat & Audi, is the 1.8T engine strong enough or should I look only for the 2.8V6?
Thanks,
Peeter
If you are looking to buy right now I would like to add two other options to your list. The first is a 1 or 2 year old Audi A6. Super refined, super safe, big, powerful and very comfortable. The second would be a Subaru Outback. Safe, AWD, ABS, can come with a 6 cylinder however the rear seat may be too cramped.
If you can wait even 12 months your options could increase with the introduction of some new offerings. What I'm talking about is the crossover type of vehicle. These will include the Ford Crosstrainer, Chrysler Pacifica, Nissan Murano and the Mitsubishi Outlander. Also Mazda will be coming out with a station wagon for the redesigned 6 (the 626 replacement).
Hope this helps, good luck and let us know what you choose.
Grand High Poobah
The Fraternal Order of Procrastinators
This car does well in safety tests, and is also more reliable than the vehicles you mention above, and would have a full new car warrenty. You never know the full history of a used car. You can buy the new Legacy for the same price as the used vehicles you mention.
This is mechanically the same as the Outback, but with a slightly lower ride height.
I am not one of the raving Subaru loyalists, my father even owns a Passat wagon), but the value of the Legacy is hard to beat especially when the alternative is a used car. You can get a very reliable used car (I have bought several) but you are much safer with new.
The BMW was by far my favorite. The salesman said I might also consider the 3-series wagon, a less expensive car (go figure). He says the size difference is very little and the performance is much the same. I'm not so sure about that. We'll likely go back and test drive the 3-series for a better comparison. Would appreciate anyone's knowledge about the two.
Are there any other wagons I should be sure to take a look at before deciding? I need more room than most sedans offer and do not want an SUV or minivan. Thanks for any info you can offer.
Leslie
The 2002 A6 Avant
2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93
thank you
Ernie in Alberta
We have a '98 Forester L and just got our 2nd Soob. 2002 Legacy L 5 speed wagon, for $17,827. That included ABS, AWD, keyless, cruise, carpets, power everything, even 4 disc brakes.
I bought OE take-off alloys used, the OE leather shift knob, and a rubber liner for the cargo area. Then I eBay'd a 6CD changer from a WRX owner (he got XM satellite) for $150 and installed it myself.
So for a total investment of just $18,150 or so, not bad eh? What else has AWD, ABS, 6CD, and alloys for even close to that price? Nothing.
-juice
We narrowed the search to the Outback VDC and the Passat. My wife preferred the ride and feel of the Outback. She thought the Passat's ride was too jiggly for her as she put it. With your mother-in-law moving from a Sable and guessing her age, I would bet that the ride will be a big differentiator. I would strongly suggest quick side by side compares of your choices.
Also, you will get good husbanding points for recognizing the likely importance of ride quality in her important feature list.
BTW, I don't think you will find a new 6 cylinder AWD wagon for $24,000. I would suggest that after the drive in the H6 Outback, you suggest a test drive in the Legacy so she can see the acceleration difference (and price difference). My wife is also paranoid about getting on the freeway; I'll bet that your Mother-in-law also remembers how slow the old four bangers used to be. Modern 4's don't have that problem.
I would suggest that you not recommend a used car. That is a losing proposition for you. The first problem with the car will be your lack of knowledge on picking cars.
Sorry for the long post, but I feel I know your Mother-in-law. I have been living with one for a lot of years.
Mike
Personally I think torque is the more important then HP but that doesn't sell cars. HP is obviously derived mathematically from torque so they really go hand in hand. Late RPM torque is what makes for a good HP number, but I like those big, flat torque curves rather then just a peak. More displacement is where you get that kind of torque curve, or add a turbo, but once again, don't even go there!
So how can a 4 cyl legacy/Camry/Accord/Altima etc. w/ 160 to 170 hp be underpowered. Less torque - yes, but also much lighter than the above cars.
I agree that HP alone is a useless number but in a way, so is a torque number alone. Too bad more manufacturers don't publish HP/torque graphs.
Even VDCs are about $29k now. 4Motions start there and go up, but they don't include stability control, which is what the VDC is all about anyway.
-juice
Volvo was too noisy and has problems with repairs too. So, now i am stuck. I really don't want to buy an suv but am beginning to wonder if i should rethink the highlander. Or perhaps there's something else i should be thinking about??? i wish toyota made a wagon!!
help, help! Thanks. susan.
If you shopped around you might be able to find a used BMW 325/323 sportwagon for under 30K. My personal choice was the Lexus IS300 SportCross but they are a little more than $30K; downsides are a smaller cargo area and you need to buy another set tires for the winter.
Some people have good luck with the new Jettas. I think the wagon model is only built in Germany; historicaly VW owners have felt that the German assembled cars have a little better quality.
At the end of the day it is hard to beat the bang for your buck provided by the WRX wagon.
Have you tried the Subaru Legacy GT wagon? A bit more sportier than the Outback, handles great and with the 5 speed it provides plenty of power for me without sacrificing mileage. Lots of cargo room and 2 moonroofs:
bit
CR recommends every Subie, even makes them Best Best among used cars.
Also check out the new Forester, which is sized like the Jetta, just taller.
-juice
No problem here with the tremendous value of the Legacy and some Foresters.
However, the Passat does have ASR (Anti-Slip Regulation), EDL (Electronic Differential Lock), or ESP (Electronic Stabilization Program) depending on the model. And Subaru's VDC gets poor reviews compared to other AWD systems like in the A4 or Passat 4Motion, in snow. So, while the Passat is pricey compared to Subaru's base Wagon models, I believe (and find from test-driving and experience) that it is superior when compared to the top Subaru models. Just my two cents. And personally, I have not found reliability to be different between VW and Subaru.
hersbird,
The 6 cylinder AWD combination is tough in that price range. For safety and AWD, I would recommend the A4, Passat 4Motion, or Outback. Perhaps you can find a used one in your price range. I would not recommend a used A4 with auto before 98 or so. The 2000 4Motion (which I have) would perhaps be in your price range except that demand and very limited availability has increased the new and old prices in many regions, recently. Either way, you may just have to go up in price a couple of $1000.
- D.
jmess, why do you say " I think long term the used Saab would be a risky proposition."?
cheers, susan.
Some of that stuff is new on the Passat, right? Audi used to have some of it exclusively, didn't they?
I think VW has come a long way, but still haven't quite proven themselves in terms of long-term reliability the way Subaru has, at least per CR's data.
BTW, I saw an ad for a new VDC for $28k, and the price includes freight. It's from the same no-haggle dealer where I bought my Legacy L, so there are no hidden fees.
Try a WRX wagon. Then maybe get a Thule box for the roof rack. A turbo would be better for that altitude.
-juice
I am also not a fan of the premiums dealers slap on used cars using the CPO label. The same guy that can't find/fix the squeak in your dash is checking out the used cars. Any good independent mechanic, that works that brand of car, could objectively evaluate a car for you at a much lower cost. You can easily purchase a 3rd party extended warranty from your lending institution or the selling dealer.
IMHO, CPO is more of a marketing game than a real value to the consumer. CPO sounds better than "used car", "trade-in", or "lease return". Just like "Executive Demo" sounds better than "Dealer Demo". We all know that "Executives" take the time to carefully break-in their "Executive Demos" and they never lets anyone else drive the cars.
Subaru's systems are not as well suited to track driving, but are inherently better designed for use in foul weather.
-juice
We've driven a '99 V70 and liked it, I'm doing research now, but will porobably be buying in the fall. Buying new is out of our budget, so this will be a used purchase.
Questions, not in any real order, are as follows:
1. Volvo body styles (-2000 vs. 2001+) - Are the older platform V70's better/worse than the newer style. We're going to be keeping this wagon for a while so would the extra cost of getting a 2001 model be worth it. Are they that much bigger/better.
2. AWD vs FWD - From what I've read, the Volvo AWD system has it flaws and one has to be real vigilant about tire rotation, etc. Since we'll be buying used, is it wiser just to get a FWD w/ traction control as opposed to AWD. We do live in a hilly area and our main transportation in the winter has always been a 4x4.
3. Turbo - our S70 is non-Turbo and while it still moves w/ 4 passengers, we've decided that if we get the V70, loaded, it'll have to have the turbo.
4. Towing - I've got a small utility trailer (4x8 w/ 1000lb capacity) that we use to haul dirt/mulch to/from the local landfill. This should be no problem, should it?
5. Finally, V70 vs. A6 - in terms of size, etc. The A6 is an alternative to the V70. We've driven an A4 Avant and it's jsut too small. The advantages here seem to be a V6 vs V5 w/ turbo and better AWD system. For those that have looked at both and chosen one over the other, what were your reasons.
Thanks for putting up with this long post and all my questions. I'm sure I'll ahve a few more once I get more into the specifics.
Peeter
We drove FWD and AWD samples back-to-back on a course they had set up. In a wet start, the AWD absolutely killed FWD+traction control. No contest, it just took off while the FWD had the engine fighting the brakes.
AWD also improved the handling, and noticeably. There was less understeer, and it generally felt more sure-footed, stable. I left convinced the AWD was worth the extra money.
The S60 understeers worse than the S80, at least that was my impression. Lots of plow. The tranny was also slow to pick 1st gear after a full stop, in fact all the models I drove presented this characteristic.
You may not drive at 10/10ths most of the time, but it's nice to know how it'll handle at the limit.
-juice
The V70 can tow 1100 pounds of unbraked trailer, and 3300 pounds with braked trailers.
Bob
Thanks
Also, for those interested in discussing the results, please join us in this new Wagons discussion: 2002 Midsize Wagons Comparison Test. Thanks for your participation. ;-)
Revka
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Hatchbacks & Wagons Boards
L.L. Bean Model. Can anyone who owns this model or any Subaru Outback tell me how it
rides on long distance trips? How comfortable is the ride on long distance trips. I currently have a 1994 Ford Explorer and it rides rough in town and on the road.
Elizabeth
The Bean goes further and has more insulation, the wonderfully smooth H6, and a more tolerant long-travel suspension.
In fact, the H6 is not about drag racing, but about smooth power delivery. When we swapped drivers during the test drive, my wife tried to start the car, not even realizing it was already running. It's that quiet.
Subaru was criticized for its pricing, some reviews gawking at $33k price tags, but real world prices are much lower and make for a solid value. If you are in the DC area, fitzmall.com is selling a VDC with freight included for $26,375, and the Bean is cheaper than that (none are in stock right now). The price ought to fall just over $25 grand or so.
Not bad for AWD, heated leather, 6CD changer in-dash, 16" alloys, ABS, and 2 moonroofs. No other car has all of the above for even close to that price.
I say go for it, then join us in the Subaru Crew topics, under Owners Clubs.
-juice