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Help Me Select a Wagon

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Comments

  • One more brag about my wagon and I'll shut up for now. Drove to the mountains yesterday (Appalachians) via I-40. Going up a relatively steep section for 5 miles or so, I set cruise control @ 65. The speed didn't waver even 1 mph. And even at that speed the car hugged the curves beautifully. I never felt like I was even close to losing control. I love this wagon.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    suydam: you gotta find a no haggle dealer, try this one for instance:

    www.fitzmall.com

    They have a Mazda store, too.

    -juice
  • hilberthilbert Posts: 103
    I read a few messages here saying that turbo engines wear faster. Is LL Bean 2005 Turbo or is it not a turbo? I was wondering how they have increase power over 2004.

    Thank you in the anticipation of your feedback.

    Hilbert
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    No, LL Beans use a 250hp H6 engine, normally aspirated.

    The turbos are H4s with intercoolers, that's the Outback XTs and the Legacy GTs.

    Same 250hp, though the turbos have more torque.

    -juice
  • hilberthilbert Posts: 103
    Thanks for the clarification Ateixeira
  • suydamsuydam Posts: 4,177
    Well, there is a happy ending to my Mazda6 wagon story. The GM called me to apologize for the other manager's behavior, took some more off the price and threw in aftermarket leather and heated seats. So I will be joining Mazda6 wagon owners now and hopefully getting rid of the Subaru from hell (I know from these boards that my experience with Subaru may be atypical but it was still miserable -- too bad because there are so many wonderful things about the Forester design). There are many things I'll miss about the Forester but I really like the Mazda6 wagon and hopefully will have more reliability with it.
    '14 Buick Encore Convenience
    '17 Chevy Volt Premiere
  • on the road yesterday. Red really emphasizes the modern design. It's one of the few models that I think look better in red. When I test drove a Mazda6 I liked charcoal gray or dark blue, didn't see any red.

    I also had a Subaru from hell once, and I think it was mainly the previous owner to blame. The oil was thick and black when I changed it. It died at 90K-- cracked engine block. I bought it at 80K.

    I'll consider Subaru again when I'm in the market in a few years. Many of my friends have had reliable Subarus.
  • I've had mine for a week now and I appreciate it more every day. Good luck with yours!
  • juljul Posts: 7
    Just want to let all 6 wagon owners aware that there might be a problem with the front windsheild wipers. After about 10 minutes of use, they start to skip across the window, and progressively become more violent. Purchased my wagon this past August and has been back 3x for this problem. Dealer is being great, and trying to research what the problem is.
    Will keep you posted...
  • KCRamKCRam Mt. Arlington NJPosts: 3,516
    Hi jul

    Please be sure to keep Mazda6 wagon owners updated in the Mazda6 Wagon (2004) discussion.

    kcram
    Host
    Smart Shopper and Wagons Message Boards
  • suydamsuydam Posts: 4,177
    Maybe you should change the title to Mazda6 Wagon so as the 2005's start arriving it will get new comments.
    '14 Buick Encore Convenience
    '17 Chevy Volt Premiere
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    We sold a lemony 626 for a Legacy so maybe it's a matter of luck!

    Hope your new Mazda is as reliable as my '93 Miata has been (i.e. excellent).

    -juice
  • juljul Posts: 7
    will do.
  • KCRamKCRam Mt. Arlington NJPosts: 3,516
    Maybe you should change the title to Mazda6 Wagon so as the 2005's start arriving it will get new comments.

    Good point, I'll clean that up.

    kcram
    Host
    Smart Shopper and Wagons Message Boards
  • jhc003jhc003 Posts: 10
    Hello all! I'm new to the message board and have found the discussions interesting. I'd like some help as I search for a new vehicle. I currently drive about 50 miles/day for my commute in upstate NY, winter can be a real treat. I'd like to go with an AWD vehicle and have been comparing vehicles for some time. It seems like the 2005 Subaru Outback would suit me well (drove the 2005 Legacy GT and it seemed a bit small for my family of 4) and meet all my needs but I also really like the Volvo S60 AWD sedan and would consider the new V50 as well. I also saw a great deal on a 2004 Saab 9-5 Linear wagon (but no AWD). It seems like the Subaru gives the best bang for the buck; especially since I'd like to have aleather, heated seats and most of the other options (turbo would be great also). With all my requirements etc. it seems like the only car to meet my needs and stay within budget ($25-30k) is the Subaru. Any guidance would be appreciated.
  • My husband has more than 200,000 miles on his 2000 Outback. It has been a great car for him, and there's nothing about it that he doesn't like. He's hoping to keep it for at least another year, then he'll get a slightly-used 2005.

    The kids and I aren't crazy about his Outback. I can't whip it around the way I can my '96 Honda wagon and '04 Mazda6 wagon. The front seats aren't as comfortable for me as those in the Accord and Mazda6, esp. on long trips. And the kids prefer the back seat of those cars, altho there is less room, to the Subaru.

    But my husband loves it, and he's the only one in it 99% of the time.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Being taller up, it's not as sporty as Subaru's own Legacy GT wagon. Did you try that?

    The Volvo V50 is very nice, but it's a bit smaller than the Outback.

    The S60 is cramped, IMO. Some say the S40 has just as much room, and it's a compact.

    Stick with a wagon and you'll be happier. You get more rear head room and a bunch more cargo space. Check out the Legacy wagon, Outback, Passat wagon, and Mazda6 wagon. All are versatile and fun.

    -juice
  • dudleyrdudleyr Posts: 3,469
    Don't forget Focus Wagon, and Possibly Vibe/Matrix (they have a large back seat, but smallish cargo area).

    How could the Outback be roomier than the GT? They are the same size inside.
  • nedc2nedc2 Posts: 192
    Also check out the Ford Five Hundred/ Mercury Montego sedans, they're big and can be had well under $30K. They have huge trunks, 60/40 split rear seats and a fl down passenger seat if you have to haul lumber;) Yhe V50 or V70 would be nice but they're pricy.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    He might have been comparing an Outback to a GT sedan. Those give up rear head room and obviously cargo space.

    Freestyle is even more practical than those big sedans.

    -juice
  • nedc2nedc2 Posts: 192
    The Freestyle is a practical package, and drives nearly as well as the Five Hundred, but I really don't care too much for its "Explorer Lite" styling, it is handsome enough,, but not really to my taste, it's also more expensive, and it doesn't have any easily concealable stowage because the 3rd row seat pretty much fills the space under the floor. I really hope the Mercury version will be more like a traditional wagon, with an optional 3rd row seat to give us an alternative. That, and the fact that the Five Hundred and Montego are the first sedans I've seen which have the kind of interior space and cargo versatility for me to even consider, so for some people they might be a viable wagon alternative.
  • jhc003jhc003 Posts: 10
    let me ask you this - is it a big deal to get $400 below invoice on a 2005 Subaru Outback 2.5XT Limited wagon or is everyone getting that? I know this guy at the dealership but I'm not so sure this deal is as fair as he says. From what I hear there isn't as much wiggle room on Subaru's b/c of the demand so invoice (whatever that really is). They gave me the Subaru to take home and test drive and it is very nice, I don't think I could go wrong with it. On the other hand, I saw this brand new 2004 Saab wagon that another dealer wants to get rid of that they took $10k off the MSRP. Any unbiased opinions on 2005 Subie vs. 2004 Saab? The AWD is a big thing (isn't it?) and the Saab doesn't have it.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    I would not want to own a Saab past warranty. Period.

    I think you have a great offer, in fact it's lower than what I've seen lately. They are giving you most of the holdback.

    I mean, the dealer's got kids to feed! Let them eat, man! ;-)

    -juice
  • jhc003jhc003 Posts: 10
    let me ask you this - is it a big deal to get $400 below invoice on a 2005 Subaru Outback 2.5XT Limited wagon or is everyone getting that? I know this guy at the dealership but I'm not so sure this deal is as fair as he says. From what I hear there isn't as much wiggle room on Subaru's b/c of the demand so invoice (whatever that really is). They gave me the Subaru to take home and test drive and it is very nice, I don't think I could go wrong with it. On the other hand, I saw this brand new 2004 Saab wagon that another dealer wants to get rid of that they took $10k off the MSRP. Any unbiased opinions on 2005 Subie vs. 2004 Saab? The AWD is a big thing (isn't it?) and the Saab doesn't have it.
  • dudleyrdudleyr Posts: 3,469
    Another big sedan that might be interesting is the new Avalon. It is supposed to be even bigger than the current one. Still wish they made a Camry or Accord wagon. Even a Civic or Corolla might do.
  • KCRamKCRam Mt. Arlington NJPosts: 3,516
    Stop by the new What Wagon Would You Like To See Offered? discussion and talk about what's missing in the wagon market.

    kcram
    Host
    Smart Shopper and Wagons Message Boards
  • badgerfanbadgerfan Posts: 1,565
    If you want a Camry wagon aren't you basically asking for a Highlander? This is probably the closest thing you will get to a Toyota station wagon.
  • jhc003jhc003 Posts: 10
    I don't think the dealer's kids are starving; they just about every dealership in the area. I saw a comment on another forum about the 2005 Subaru Outback 2.5 XT Ltd. wagon and that it took premium fuel. that was a big concern of mine and when i called the dealer yesterday he said "no, it takes regular unleaded fuel and that's what we've been putting in it." Is this correct? I don't even want a car that requires premium fuel. Is it only the turbos that take premium? What's the story here? I got what I think is a very fair deal on the car even though I feel like I'm giving up my first born and still left w/ a hefty monthly payment. I will pay $365/month for 60 months after trading in a '99 Nissan Altima and putting down $6500k - any interested in running those numbers? thanks
  • dudleyrdudleyr Posts: 3,469
    Thanks, I will.
  • dudleyrdudleyr Posts: 3,469
    A highlander is Camry based, but does not handle nearly as well as a Camry, is not as peppy, uses much more fuel, costs more, and only comes with an automatic transmission (wich worsens the above mentioned problems further).
  • jhc003jhc003 Posts: 10
    I don't think the dealer's kids are starving; they just about every dealership in the area. I saw a comment on another forum about the 2005 Subaru Outback 2.5 XT Ltd. wagon and that it took premium fuel. that was a big concern of mine and when i called the dealer yesterday he said "no, it takes regular unleaded fuel and that's what we've been putting in it." Is this correct? I don't even want a car that requires premium fuel. Is it only the turbos that take premium? What's the story here? I got what I think is a very fair deal on the car even though I feel like I'm giving up my first born and still left w/ a hefty monthly payment. I will pay $365/month for 60 months after trading in a '99 Nissan Altima and putting down $6500k - any interested in running those numbers? thanks
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Don't use refresh - you end up with duplicate posts. Click on "Recent Mesgs" above instead.

    Any how, yes, for the turbo especially I would stick with premium fuel.

    The Outback 2.5i is the fuel miser, 22/28 on regular fuel, can't complain about that for an AWD wagon with that kind of ground clearance.

    -juice
  • jhc003jhc003 Posts: 10
    I don't think the dealer's kids are starving; they just about every dealership in the area. I saw a comment on another forum about the 2005 Subaru Outback 2.5 XT Ltd. wagon and that it took premium fuel. that was a big concern of mine and when i called the dealer yesterday he said "no, it takes regular unleaded fuel and that's what we've been putting in it." Is this correct? I don't even want a car that requires premium fuel. Is it only the turbos that take premium? What's the story here? I got what I think is a very fair deal on the car even though I feel like I'm giving up my first born and still left w/ a hefty monthly payment. I will pay $365/month for 60 months after trading in a '99 Nissan Altima and putting down $6500k - any interested in running those numbers? thanks
  • jhc003jhc003 Posts: 10
    the gas mileage is better on the non-turbo but after driving that 250 hp turbo everything will probably be a let down. i haven't driven the 2.5i so I can't say what it's like. If the dealer said it uses reg unleaded is it going to hurt the car by using that instead of premium?
  • dudleyrdudleyr Posts: 3,469
    23/30 mpg for the Legacy though - that is the real AWD miser. A little less ground clearance, but plenty for any type of roads.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Yup, I want one!

    If you want a turbo and will use 87 octane, at least get the low-boost version in the Forester XT or Baja turbo. The F-XT is actually a bit quicker.

    The Legacy has a lot more boost, I'd avoid regular gas entirely.

    -juice
  • sdesde Posts: 42
    My wife and I test-drove the Outback 2.5i, and while we liked the car a lot, we particularly liked the relatively high driving position. We were almost ready to just buy the car, when it occurred to us that we might shop around a little first! (This is our first car.)

    I know that car-based SUVs offer seat height, but if we want to stay with a wagon, are there are any other options for us besides the Outback? It really does seem to be a unique offering. (We don't want to spend more than $30K, and we'd be very happy to spend less.)

    Thanks!
  • This may be way off base depending on your outlook, but you may consider the new-for-'05 Ford FreeStyle. In terms of seat-height, both the new Ford Five Hundred and the FreeStyle offer significantly raised seating platforms and make it a key component of their advertsing.

    If you really want to push the envelope, I was really surprised by the Scion xB, which had a really nice seat height, great versatility, fuel economy in the 30s and a price in the mid-teens. Again, possibly way off, but I'm just tryign to consider all the possibilities.

    Just to demonstrate that I have no allegiance and that I'm just trying to widen the scope of possibility and consideration, I just purchased a new Chevy Maxx LT and love it.
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Posts: 11,077
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  • rlgrlg Posts: 12
    The Mazda 6 wagon has a height adjustable drivers seat. There are some nice deals around on 04 leftovers if you're interested in a 2WD car. Subies tend to be expensive compared to most other cars in their class. Thats the premium for AWD I suppose.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Tall wagons tend to have high-mounted seats. Even the Focus wagon has it. Freestyle, Outback, Five Hundred all have it.

    I think even the Avalon sedan has a higher seat point than before.

    Then there are car-based SUVs like Forester, Highlander, CR-V, etc.

    -juice
  • Well, Ihad to respond though I can't suggest a wagon other than an Outback. I will tell you that I have had my Outback i wagon a little less than two weeks and I love it. I am short and I the drivers seat is just find for me. I also did not want or need the turbo-driven Outback. My Outback i suits me just fine. I like the ground clearance...the updated and very nice interior. I even have heated seats for the first time and have use them on several cold mornings here in the Northeast. My lease just expired on my 2001 Forester, which I loved...however, I am very happy with my purchase of the 2005 Outback. I highly recommend it.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Try an Audi allroad quattro or a Volvo XC70. Both are also nice.

    -juice
  • hilberthilbert Posts: 103
    SDE, what is important to you? I did a lot of research, in fact, too much, and Outback turned out to be the best choice for the price - in terms of reliability, standard options and power. I did care about power and went for 2.5XT. You should get one for upto 27,800 (a $1000 less if you want manual).
    I have had it only for a week so not much experience. But whatever little experience I have, I love the ride, very smooth and refined.
  • sdesde Posts: 42
    Well, my original post was over two weeks ago, and since then, we've pretty much settled on the Honda CR-V (essentially because my wife liked it the best of everything we drove). We also found that the back seat of the Outback was rather cramped when compared to the CR-V.

    In the end, she found the compact-SUV class of car to be more to her liking than a wagon (or even the Outback, which purports to be an SUV, but really looks like a wagon, IMHO).

    SDE
  • dudleyrdudleyr Posts: 3,469
    Car based SUV's are really just tall wagons. The CRV does have a nice back seat. I wish they just made a Civic wagon though. The CRV uses a lot of fuel (compared to the Civic it is based on) pushing all that air out of the way.
  • rshollandrsholland Posts: 19,788
    The CRV uses a lot of fuel (compared to the Civic it is based on)

    The CRV uses the same 2.4L engine found in the Accord, not the the 1.6L engine found in the Civic. That's the main reason fo the poor milage.

    Bob
  • dudleyrdudleyr Posts: 3,469
    OK - It gets poor mileage compared to the Accord then, for the same reasons.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Yeah, Accord gets 26/34 and CR-V is 21/25, both manuals.

    But it has more interior space and RT4WD, plus it's geared a lot shorter.

    Too bad they don't make an Accord wagon, or bring over a TSX wagon from Europe. Honda has people movers that are very efficient, they just haven't been bringing them here to the US.

    -juice
  • dudleyrdudleyr Posts: 3,469
    I would love an Accord wagon or TSX. Especially with that new 2.2 diesel.

    Maybe someday they will come here. I won't hold my breath though.

    Hopefully gas prices will keep going up, that will help people see the light! : ^ )
This discussion has been closed.