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Help Me Select a Wagon
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Comments
It was a good idea to add that option, before they had a big gap in power, from the base 120hp Lancer all the way up to the EVO with nothing in between.
-juice
I just test drove an 05 Magnum and posted the results on the Dodge Magnum forum (2005 Magnum Forum, Posts # 870 and 871).
I'm amazed how little is discussed on this site re the Magnum -- anyone considering a wagon, minivan, or small/mid SUV would gain experience and hav fun by including this car in their comparison.
My lady has a '98 Merc Sable wagon with 91,000 miles. I (mostly) like drive that car also (as a distant second choice to my Caprice wagon). We have had wonderful service from this car and posted a report on the Ford Taurus and Mercury Sable (Wagons) forum, post # 303.
Now I'm going to post to the "What Wagon Would You Want Offered" -- well, I can dream, can't I?
Magnum is a good option, but cargo space is limited and that's why most people look at wagons in the first place.
I bet your Caprice has at least twice the cargo space with the seats in place. Maybe 3-4 times.
Also, I haven't seen a roof rack on them, is there one even optional? People want to carry their bikes and kayaks and stuff.
Sable was replaced by the Ford Freestyle, check that out also. In terms of cargo space it could fit 4 times as much stuff as the Magnum, or a couple of extra kids.
-juice
There will be a big difference in preference between folks shopping for the largest wagon they can find, and those who prefer a more compact model. You might cross shop a Volvo or the Ford Freestyle. The Mazda6 would probably seem too small for you.
'17 Chevy Volt Premiere
Compared to those, Magnum seems small in terms of cargo space.
Passat, Legacy, and Mazda6 are good mid-sizers.
-juice
Bob
'17 Chevy Volt Premiere
-juice
My father ended up with a Chevy Suburban, because he didn't want to sacrifice any cargo carrying capacity. At that time I think the only wagons available were imports, and he's not an import kind of guy.
As for the Magnum, I like the concept (powerful engine, RWD, good cargo space) but hate the styling. Everyone I know thinks it is either really attractive or really ugly. I've never been in one, but I can also see how that low roofline might hamper visibility.
I just purchased an '04 Mazda6 wagon, but unlike my father, I'm an import kind of guy so I don't really shop domestic models. There were only two vehicles on my list, the Mazda6 and the Legacy/Outback. Most people I know shop for either domestic or imported, not both, so perhaps that is why you aren't seeing many comparisons here between the imported wagons and the Dodge/Chrysler wagons.
Read you post in what wagon would you want. It seems like the Freestyle would meet most of your requirements. The Pacifica might also, but it is more expensive, and uses more gas.
I used to have a Taurus, and though it was roomy it was a little too rounded and low. I have an extra large recycle bin that would fit in my Corolla wagon (because it was taller and boxier) but not in the Taurus wagon - even though the Taurus had more cubic feet.
Drive the Freestyle and let us know what you think.
'17 Chevy Volt Premiere
-juice
Mazda5 looks promising, but I wonder how it will do in the US given a bias against anything but a traditional minivan as a people mover.
-juice
-juice
If you have the 2005 LT with rear wiper, your rear vision will be even worse. Then again, the LS (without spoiler or wiper) does a good job of keeping its rear window clear.
Any advice would be appreciated! I'd be especially interested in reliability reports.
Your 25 mpg, 2005 Anything, will be worth very little and considered a gas hog.
Mercedes is re-introducing diesel in the US market. That might be your best bet for a dozen-year ride.
Back to the comparo, all have pros and cons. The Volvo would be the biggest and you might still be able to get the built-in booster seats I really found nifty. Long-term, my concern would be repair expense. Several friends have sold Volvos for that reason. AWD is available, too.
Passat is nice, but remember the new one is coming soon and will make the current one seem old. The 1.8T has sludge issues, so just use synthetic oil if you get one, and don't stretch the maintenance intervals. The interior is very nice, and roomy, and 4Motion is a nice option.
The Outback has AWD standard and would rate highest in reliability. A 2.5i gets 23/28 mpg, not bad for an AWD wagon, plus it has 8.4-8.7" of ground clearance, better than some trucks.
If gas prices do soar, on the used car market these wagons, especially with AWD, would only gain appeal compared to the loads of used Explorers that would be sitting on used car lots.
-juice
While the Passat has better reliability than the Golf/Jetta, VW as a whole suffers from many quality problems. If it were me, I'd stay away from VW until I see a more consistent level of reliability.
Also, keep in mind that many of the models are new. The Outback was redesigned as a 2005 model, there will be a new Passat this year and I'm sure Volvo will have an update for the V70 in a few years.
Being a Subaru guy, I'll give my biased recommendation towards the Outback based on the best balance of performace, cost and reliability. The 2005 model received many improvements in overall fit and finish and I believe it competes well against VW and Volvo.
Also, do you need the extra ground clearance of the Outback? If you aren't cross shopping against the Volvo Cross Country, you might want to look into the Legacy wagon instead. The Outback and Legacy are essentially the same vehicle (exact same interior dimensions). The main difference is that the Outback sits about 2 inches higher and receives the exterior cladding and price. You could save some additional money with a Legacy wagon including insurance as well.
Ken
I think on paper the Outback supposedly has 1 cubic ft. more space in the cargo area than the Mazda6, but my car definitely has more usable space with the seats down, because they fold down much flatter than the Outback's do. The other nice thing about the Mazda is it came with a cargo net which extends from the top of the rear seat up to the roof, so I feel safer stacking stuff up higher than the rear seat. I don't think the net would stop anything large and heavy from intruding on the passenger space, but it does provide a bit more peace of mind when I'm in a pinch and need to bend the cargo loading rules a bit.
Reliability on the Mazda6 may not be quite up to par with the Outback, because it is a fairly new design, but it's probably better than Passat.
Personally, I'd probably go with the Subaru if I planned on keeping the car for 12 years. I know people who own quirky old VW/Volvo/Saab money pits, and Mazda parts tend to be expensive. On the other hand, I know a couple people who drive old Subarus that always just seem to work and don't need much attention.
My Father is pushing 130,000 miles on his 2000 Passat wagon with no issues. Original clutch, no engine problems, new front brake pads at around 90,000 miles.
Remember that todays average reliability is equel to much better than average from 10-15 years ago, as all cars have improved.
Also Volvo's tend to be just under the 4-cyl VW's for reliability. The new Subaru is just a little over average, and a little better than the other two.
Have you thought about a Flexa from Mazda. It is based on the Mazda 3, but seats 6 in 3 rows. It should handle well, and would be very roomy.
http://www.triplezoom.com/gallery/gallery2.php?mode=album&alb- um=/01%20Mazda/Mazda5#
They're coming out with an MPS with a 2.3l turbo and AWD, that should be a hoot. It'll cost a bit more than an equivalent Legacy GT, but it has 18" rims and a few other extras. I think the engine has Direct Injection, too.
Alas, it'll only come as a sedan, no wagons. Bummer.
-juice
-juice
Its disadvantage - at the moment - is poorer reliability than many of its competitors (except Volkswagen) due to bugs in the new design. Any new car design has that liability, and hopefully the Maxx will improve.
-juice
AWD and ground clearance are not a real high priority for us -- we grew up in Chicago and can drive safely in RWD vehicles in winter without any other safety features. It would be nice, but it's not a deciding factor for us.
We looked at the Mazda6 wagon, but didn't like the idea of buying a first model year car.
We are going to test drive an Outback with the 6-cylinder engine. Although driving the 4-cylinder turbo was a heck of a lot of fun, it was a little loud for what we are planning to use it for. Hopefully the 6-cylinder will be more quiet. The disadvantage with the Legacy wagon is that it doesn't come available with the 6-cylinder.
I found some pictures of the 2006 Passat online. I actually like the styling of the current model better.
You could also look at a Focus Wagon. Probably the best handling of all the above - also the least expensive and most efficient. You can get one loaded with leather and lots of goodies for less than 20k. It has a very large cargo area - bigger than Mazda or Subaru, about the same as Passat and Volvo. It has pretty good rear leg room because of its upright stance, but not a ton of knee room (fore aft space). It is also a little narrower than the others. Reliability is now average (better than the Volvo and Mazda and maybe the VW).
Not an image car though, and that is important to some people.
Don't know about your thoughts on semi-SUV's are, but the Highlander would be roomier than any of the vehicles mentioned, and if you are considering a V-6 anyway it does not use any more fuel. It is smooth and quiet, but not much of a handler. What about an Escape hybrid?
One is just over and the other just under their limit.
But they measure space all the way to the roof, so it may not all be useable space, you'd at least block your view.
Still, in a pinch it's nice to fit things. If not there's always the roof rack.
-juice
Brian
Europe gets a new one but the Americas get just a face-lift.
-juice
-juice
how can you be so sure?invoice is the price the dealers pay isn't it?so in short terms the dealer lost 200.00$ on a new 2005 jetta wagon tdi....i don't think so!if you where a buisness men would you sell and loose money?
The 9-5 wagon was my recent choice. I didn't want an SUV or minivan, and my criteria were gas mileage, cargo capacity, some towing capacity and *fun to drive* (which was why I nixed the SUV and van), then reasonable reliability. The towing capacity requirement (up to 2000lbs) quickly whittled the list down to three cars: Subaru Outback, Volvo V70 and Saab 9-5.
The Saab (2.3l light-pressure turbo Linear) gets low 20's MPG around town, and near 30 on the highway! Even the Linear is a great car to drive, handles well, and if you get the Aero (2.3l high-output turbo, 250 horses) you can almost fly. In addition, Saab seems to finally have done something about their poor reliability reputation; the 9-5 gets average or above average ratings from consumer reports.
The Subaru is probably the most reliable of the three, but it just didn't excite me. Someone told me SUBARU stands for "Sometimes Useful, But Always Really Underpowered." And it drives like it. Now, if I could have afforded a brand new '05 Outback 2.5 GT, it would have been a different story....
But I thought I at least ought to throw Saab into the mix here.
I think by now dealers have recognized that "invoice" is often the standard by which people will negotiate. With that said, invoice means little when equating to "break even".
Pricing models for most american cars start off with a rediculous thing called MSRP and usually immediately come with "discounts", which often bring the car under "invoice". e.g. I purchased an '04 F150 last June - this is the initial year of a major remodle and they were advertising them for under "invoice"!? And Ford will tell you that their trucks are what makes up most of the company profit.
Selling a vehicle at or below invoice has no effect on the manufacturer's profit. Invoice is what the dealer pays the manufacturer for the vehicle, so the manufacturer gets ALL their money no matter what. Selling at/below invoice only hurts the dealership, which is a separate private business.
kcram
Host - Wagons
Saab 9-5 is a good choice, IMO. What I really liked about it was how roomy it felt inside. Almost feels like a full-size car.
Resale is a concern, but shop used and you'll find bargains IMO.
-juice