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Mazda Protegé

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Comments

  • mazdafunmazdafun Member Posts: 2,329
    Even if only 80% of that is available below 2500rpm, that's good thrust-to-mass for EASY daily driving.
  • vocusvocus Member Posts: 7,777
    That's pretty weird, because the standard 2.0 ES has 135 lb./ft. I think. You would think adding a turbocharger would add more torque than that. Guess not though.
  • chicagoprochicagopro Member Posts: 1,009
    That Mazda turbo is one ugly car.
  • maltbmaltb Member Posts: 3,572
    Beauty is not only skin deep.
  • dsm6dsm6 Member Posts: 813
    With a relatively modest ~40 hp, ~20 lb-ft gain, I'm guessing the turbo is relatively small (don't know enough about T25 Garrett Turbo to know for sure) - so I'm guessing it is set up to spool quickly = minimal lag and good low-end, rather than using a bigger turbo with more boost, but also more lag, not to mention more stress on the engine and more money. It's no going to do 0-60 in the mid to high 5's like the WRX, but I'll bet lag will be less with more low-end power - similar to the VW 1.8T in Paul's Jetta? The VW 1.8T produces 180hp IIRC.

    Oops, that time I brought up the WRX, and the Jetta. Sorry.

    I noticed it adds about 200 lbs to the car. Not bad.
  • dsm6dsm6 Member Posts: 813
    Actually, other than the orange paint, I think it looks pretty good.
  • protege_fanprotege_fan Member Posts: 2,405
    Doesn't it look just like an MP3, except for the colour and badges??
  • chicagoprochicagopro Member Posts: 1,009
    You're probably right. Just ignore me, as usual :)

    Gandalf: Really sorry to hear about your injury...those things can take a while to heal. Be good to yourself, and take it easy on the Dakkerries!

    --Dale
  • dsm6dsm6 Member Posts: 813
    Just read the protegetech info more in detail:

    First, the engine compression ratio stays at 9.1:1, as with the NA 2.0. So no adverse affect to engine off-boost (low-end) performance. That's the good news. Hence the "modest" power gains. On a related note, I would be hesitant, based upon that fact, to do the usual tuner thing and up the boost on the turbo a whole bunch.

    Now for the bad news. Only two color options to be had, according to their info: Black, and vibrant orange. Doh! Maybe (hopefully?) their info is mistaken, or Mazda will have a change of heart.
  • protege_fanprotege_fan Member Posts: 2,405
    That would look incredible....when clean that is!!!
  • dsm6dsm6 Member Posts: 813
    sure beats vibrant orange, anyway.
  • nematodenematode Member Posts: 448
    The good:
    Bigger brakes.
    Limited slip diffy.

    The average:
    Suspension work seems interesting. The MP3 is already the best performing car (700 ft slalom) under $180,000.

    The bad:
    Color is horrible.
    I dont like the wing.
    Only 170hp.

    Would I buy it? Nope. BUT I would not buy the MP3 either. The main reason is lack of power. If I'm getting a turbo or a car with super high spring rates it better be well over 100hp/L. So why dont I drive a WRX?....its ugly as sin.

    As far as the comment on the WRX 2.0L flat 4 turbo.....It taps out at an already high 14.5psi of boost. Larger turbos/intercoolers are already on the market to get that will get near 18-20psi or in the 300-320hp range.
  • protege_fanprotege_fan Member Posts: 2,405
    I haven't bothered to check the specs for both the MP3 and the MS3, but I'm sure some of you have already....so here are a couple of questions:

    a) Is the supsension setup differently between the 2? If so how?

    b) Is it just me, or isn't that the same body kit as the MP3??? Same wing and all.

    Thanks
  • yooper53yooper53 Member Posts: 286
    I agree the spoiler on the turbo is hideous as is the color. Ah but a 170 hp Pro! What could be better? I was thinking the insurance companies would probably be drooling and dribbling all over themselves in glee at the cash cow a turbo anything would represent to them. I mean now they're basing premiums on one's credit history in a number of states for criminies sake!
    Vocus, did you take a significant hit on your premiums for daring to buy a turbo car? That's the first thing I thought of when I saw the picture and read the article. Also how much of an improvement do you find the triptronic. I see they're being offered in the new Pros. Please don't tell me its mickey mouse.
    Sporin, "why would you want an AT in THIS car??!!?
    Hey I don't even want one in my '01 ES. Even though I can still drive a stick if I have to, due to an old injury it'd be a real hardship to have to do it day in and day out. 'Nuf said.
  • dsm6dsm6 Member Posts: 813
    "As far as the comment on the WRX 2.0L flat 4 turbo.....It taps out at an already high 14.5psi of boost. Larger turbos/intercoolers are already on the market to get that will get near 18-20psi or in the 300-320hp range."

    Yeah, its all relative, and people will always want more - myself included. I'd bet aftermarket parts will come out for the ms3, too - at least reprogrammed ECMs, manual boost controllers, etc. On that topic:

    "Only 170 hp."

    The protegetech page speculates 200 hp on the ms3 with some tinkering. As I said, though, at the NA 2.0 compression ratio of 9.1:1, unless the NA engine was engineered with lots of head room (ie, a conservative stock compression ratio), I don't think I'd want to up the boost too much. Plus, no factory warranty. Oh well. Can't afford it anyway, personally.
  • vocusvocus Member Posts: 7,777
    My insurance went from $195 a month to $226 a month with the turbo Jetta. It was WELL worth it to have a car that had some power though.

    The Tiptronic is mostly show, but it does allow the engine to hit 6700rpm in second gear, even though redline is 6500rpm.

    And I just find it amazing that the turbo is only 170hp. Seems underpowered to me for its size. Especially since it gets the same or better fuel economy as my previous 2001 ES did.
  • curt3curt3 Member Posts: 101
    Vocus, if I am not mistaken, you could be seen posting in the Kia Sephia forum about 2-3 years ago. Do you own one? I traded my 1999 Sephia in for the 2000 Protege that I am currently driving. Don't get me wrong, the Sephia had its good points but being a Protege owner has its plusses--reliability at the top of the list.
  • dsm6dsm6 Member Posts: 813
    At least I said something nice about the Jetta. :-)
  • mdaffronmdaffron Member Posts: 4,421
    I'm not picking on you here but you did bring up the subject, which in my opinion makes it open for discussion:

    My wife and I pay about $275 per QUARTER for TWO cars (about $1,100 per year) -- and that's with a chargeable accident last year, and two no-faults in the past five years. Do you really pay $226 per MONTH? $2,712 a year?

    I hope that was a typo -- if it isn't, Paul, you really need to go insurance shopping!

    Meade
  • vocusvocus Member Posts: 7,777
    No, I post in several forums. I have owned 5 cars over the past 5 years (one totalled, the others traded because I was tired of them or something like that). I also have driven alot of cars too, being a fleet asst. manager for a couple months, driving friends' and my parents' cars, etc. I never owned a Kia (a friend has a 1999 Sephia though, flawless with 65K now), but flirted with the idea of getting one back in 1999. It was about the only car I could have afforded new then, but then I found the Protege. The reason I did not get the Sephia was because of the reliability issues of them, and the poor resale/trade value as well.
  • vocusvocus Member Posts: 7,777
    I have gone insurance shopping. Allstate said $1908 every 6 months, Geico said $2500 every 6 months, Progressive $3000 every 6 months, and AIP said $4000 every 6 months. There was even one (whose name escapes me now) that said $4900 every 6 months (this is all for the Jetta I have now). That is insane! It wasn't much lower with the Protege either when I had it and shopped around.

    Blame it on me living in the city, having 3 points (2 speeding tickets, one after MAPP I), having a turbocharged car, and being only 23. I am currently with State Farm, and they also hold my house insurance and I get safety discounts too. If not, my insurance would be even higher with them. And that is WITH no at-fault accidents EVER.
  • chicagoprochicagopro Member Posts: 1,009
    Re: insurance...

    I'm in the 2K club myself :)
  • meinradmeinrad Member Posts: 820
    I think I'd have to move to the city and sell my car if I had to pay over $2000/year to insure 1 car. Even when I added my 3rd car when I got the P5, my premium didn't break $2000.

    We've had this discussion a few times around here and it never fails to amaze me the different prices people pay and it never seems to follow any sort of pattern. You would think, you could see young, or married, or whatever and create a guideline, but it really does seem to be all over the place.
  • dsm6dsm6 Member Posts: 813
    Looking at the specs on the turbo ms3 on the protegetech site, I see no mention of beefed up internals, on either the engine or transmission, for the 170hp 2.0L ms3 - just a beefier clutch and half shafts. Furthermore, the compression ratio is the same as with the NA 2.0.

    So, if that's true, then the Mazda guys saw fit to strap on a turbo good for 40 hp and 20 lb-ft of torque to basically the existing 2.0 and the existing 5-speed tranny - in other words, they think this set-up is reliable enough to cover it with the usually 3 yr/ 50K mile factory warranty.

    I see that as good news for those of us who already have 2.0 Pros but want more power. Get a well set up aftermarket turbo/ECU/intercooler kit - heck, why not the same Garrett turbo, intercooler, and the ECU module used on the ms3 - get a beefed up clutch, put it together (yes, I know I'm over-simplifying a bit), and you should have a fairly reliable set up. It will no doubt cost you more in the end then buying an ms3 to begin with, but its too late for that for many of us.
  • alternatoralternator Member Posts: 629
    I always buy a new car with AT and sell it after about 60,000 miles. I've never had an AT cost me any maintenance expense. Years ago, with manual T's, I was always having clutch adjustment and/or clutch replacement costs.
  • dsm6dsm6 Member Posts: 813
    If I were to use your model of buying new and replacing after about 60,000 miles, based upon past experience I would be selling the car before it would need a new clutch. "Your mileage may vary"
  • meinradmeinrad Member Posts: 820
    Can be, but probably not before 60K miles. So if you always sell by then it wouldn't matter. I have over 120K miles on the original clutch in my Civic, but replaced my old crx's clutch at 70K.
    My new P5 is a 5 speed so we'll see how long I own it and how long the clutch lasts.....
  • the_big_hthe_big_h Member Posts: 1,583
    I think that's Mazda's plan all along, engineer the turbo and maybe the LSD so they could be retrofitted to a stock Protege without major engine/drivetrain modifications.

    Can you say factory turbo kit? psssssssssssssssssssssssssssss

    (that was suppose to be the boosting sound of turbo :D)
  • vocusvocus Member Posts: 7,777
    LOVE that whisting turbo sound! Sounds particularly good on the highway when hitting the gas next to one of those Jersey walls. It echoes back and it's just lovely! :)
  • mdaffronmdaffron Member Posts: 4,421
    Honestly, to be fair, we were paying (with Montgomery -- a division of Liberty Mutual) $1,140 a year for our 2000 Protege ES and 2002 Protege5. They just sent us a renewal notice, however, and apparently they got greedy -- raising our premium to $1,640 a year. Then we found out they won't be renewing our policy at all! So I went shopping. After learning that the agent I've had for 11 years is a complete idiot and fool, I proceeded to go AGENT shopping and found a great guy who owns an agency on my end of town. My new agent has set us up with Progressive -- same coverage as our old policy with a $250 deductible, for $563 for six months (or $1,126 a year). So actually, the company that's currently insuring us did us a favor by raising our rates -- we found another company with even lower rates than we were already paying!

    Nice thing is, after Progressive's six-month policy expires on December 26 of this year, those two no-faults will lop off our five-year history (yeah, I've learned it's five years now instead of the old three). So in December it's possible we'll be able to shop for even LOWER rates!

    I'm through thinking you should stay with one insurance company through thick and thin. After what's happened to us in the last year (homeowner's claim from a lightning strike, chargeable accident) and the response from our insurance company, I've really lost my faith (not that I ever really had any) in insurance companies. My agent says they're all running scared since 9-11-01. I believe it.

    Anyway, I've learned one thing in the past few weeks -- It pays to shop around -- often!

    Meade
  • SporinSporin Member Posts: 1,066
    If you know how to drive, a clutch should last you 100k+ with no problems.

    Without mincing words, people who go through clutches every 60k are either severly beating on the car or don't knwo how to drive a manual properly.
  • protege_fanprotege_fan Member Posts: 2,405
    What would something like that cost to buy and have installed?
  • dsm6dsm6 Member Posts: 813
    Now that would be nice. Complete with factory warranty. Makes sense, now that you mention it, in light of the specs for the ms3. Hmm. Maybe I'll start saving up, just in case.
  • alternatoralternator Member Posts: 629
    I'm pleased to hear that clutches last longer than they used to!
  • mdaffronmdaffron Member Posts: 4,421
    Here's the history of the clutches in the new cars I've owned so far:

    1988 Hyundai Excel: 117,000 miles
    1992 Mazda Protege LX: 83,000 miles
    1994 Mazda B2300SE pickup: 114,000 miles
    2000 Mazda Protege ES: 34,500 miles

    Each vehicle (except the current one, of course) was traded in on the next one in the list at the mileage indicated. I've never replaced a clutch or had any transmission-related problems. If anything, I'm more concerned about the longevity of the auto tranny in my wife's new Protege5 than I am about the manual in my 2000 ES.

    Meade
  • the_big_hthe_big_h Member Posts: 1,583
    don't forget the blowoff valve...

    psssssssssss pshhhh psssssssssss pshhhhh

    ahhhhhh.....
  • yooper53yooper53 Member Posts: 286
    Interesting. My policy renewed last month and with no at faults or tickets they raised my 6 month premium by $164.50. Plus which I'd been with them quite awhile. I ended up with Progressive paying the same amount as on my OLD policy, same coverage. Still I'm a little nervous about the next renewal in August. Wondering if that was some sucker play on their part.
  • maltbmaltb Member Posts: 3,572
    my guess is upwards of $3k.

    The problem is to back it with a warranty would require a PCM/clutch/LSD/axle shaft/subframe and other component upgrades. Not exactly cheap. I say sell em out the back door...lol
  • mdaffronmdaffron Member Posts: 4,421
    Funny how Progressive seems to be lowballing everybody right now ... maybe they need customers!

    Meade
  • newcar31newcar31 Member Posts: 3,711
    Sheesh! You are getting ripped. I live in the city too and pay $106 a month with 1 reckless driving and two speeding tickets from the "5.0L". I just turned 25 though.
  • nematodenematode Member Posts: 448
    Doing things aftermarket is usually not worth the bang for the buck. Unless one is talking about porking down $25,000 on top of a $60,000 Z06 to have John Lingentfelter massage it for you and get you 650hp from 400hp.....its really not worth the money for cars that cost $15-20k.

    To get a turbo, good intercooler, diffy, clutch upgrade, intake mods, exhaust mods, will probably run $6000 installed. The intake and exhaust probably make up $1000 or less. A decent turbo and intercooler kit $3500. The diffy, clutch, and installation making up the rest. Doing it yourself will save about 3-4 days labor if you know what you are doing. Probably amounts to $1000 or so but I'm not sure. Thats all without messing with the engine internals, dropping the compression, timing, fuel mapping, all the associated stuff .

    To get resonable power with relatively good reliability will probably run $8000 installed. I'm not talking about anything crazy here...hotter cams, better crank, better pistons, better fuel management, ECU upgrade, droping the compression too and messing with the timing AND making sure you can still run pump gas.

    Unless you can get everything wholesale and do everything yourself it would be cheaper to buy the WRX, or WRX prodrive (STi), or the Lancer EVO when it gets here.

    If Mazda could get a Turbo kit complete with all the upgrades required for good reliability AND driving dynamics at the 200hp level under $8000 installed I would be AMAZED. If they can get their 170hp kit on the market with just the turbo and intercooler (nothing else) for $3000 installed I would also be amazed....but not as amazed as getting 200hp :).
  • the_big_hthe_big_h Member Posts: 1,583
    http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/stories.pl?ACCT=105&STORY=/www/story/03-28-2002/0001695827

    basically the same press release, but got a couple pics of the car's front.
  • vocusvocus Member Posts: 7,777
    Exactly! You don't live in Baltimore though. When I moved to the city, my insurance went up like $55 a month on the Protege. And also, you are 25. I am 23, and my car is more expensive too. The tickets I have are both speeding (one 2 pts., the other 1). They drop off after I turn 25 though, so my insurance will go down steadily right after I turn 25.
  • mdaffronmdaffron Member Posts: 4,421
    Didn't I see you mention somewhere that you have a totaled car on your record? How long ago? That could be the problem.

    Meade
  • the_big_hthe_big_h Member Posts: 1,583
    http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/stories.pl?ACCT=105&STORY=/www/story/03-28-2002/0001695777
  • vocusvocus Member Posts: 7,777
    I totalled my car in December of 1998, so that would not be an issue. I never mention that on insurance, and my driving record does not mention that either. The accident was not my fault, and I did not get any tickets from it. The guy who I hit (who ran through a stop sign), however, got 5 tickets and a healthy lawsuit to boot.

    You wanna talk about insurance problems? A friend of mine got his license suspended back in 1999 for too many speeding points (he had 9), then State Farm dropped him from his parents' policy. The points just started to drop off (he had 3 of 9 left), then he got arrested for DWI (blew a .12 in the breath tester thingie, and the limit is .08 here). He also got a ticket for reckless driving on top of that, which is 5 points here in Maryland. I would HATE to pay his insurance bill, especially since right now it's higher than mine is for a 1997 Nissan Sentra without full coverage. And it's a shame, because he just turned 25 too. He got picked up 3 days after his 25th birthday.
  • mdaffronmdaffron Member Posts: 4,421
    First of all, it only happened a little over three years ago. Second, it doesn't matter who hit whom -- it affects your risk frequency. It's unfortunate but true -- that's one reason I have two no-faults haunting me right now from 1997. They'll be off my insurance record by the end of the year. Unfortunately, being in the wrong place at the wrong time can get you higher rates or even get you dropped by your insurance company, even if nothing was your fault and you had no claims on your own policy. And don't think that by not reporting it they don't know. If the other guy filed a claim with his insurance company, you can be assured yours knows about it.

    Meade
  • vocusvocus Member Posts: 7,777
    The insurance company didn't really have time to act then, because the car was totalled, I was too scared to drive for awhile (got the Cavalier 6 months later), and also could not afford another car right then. Maybe it is an issue then, don't know. Also, I DID use my PIP insurance on my car policy, but that was it. So I don't know.
  • dsm6dsm6 Member Posts: 813
    this 170 hp drivetrain on the ms3 evidently doesn't use any new internals. Just the turbo, intercooler with intake, re-programmed pcm, beefed up clutch, thicker half shafts (don't really "need" the LSD), and exhaust, as far as I can tell.

    Besides, I already own the Pro. It would definitely be cheaper to initially purchase the MS3 instead of my Pro ES, but its too late. At this point, I'd have to sell the Pro ES, taking a big hit on depreciation, and then buy the MS3. I'd bet that buying a factory turbo/drivetrain kit as described above would, at this point, be cheaper. Of course, it wouldn't come with the MS3 suspension and brakes, but at least I'd have the power upgrade.
  • the_big_hthe_big_h Member Posts: 1,583
    if I can get 150hp from a factory turbo kit for my 00 ES for around 3k I'll be happy :)
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