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Mazda Protegé

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  • newcar31newcar31 Member Posts: 3,711
    I am really sorry to hear about what happened in Italy today. I hope it wasn't terrorism. This recent news makes me a little uneasy about working in a sky-scraper. It almost seems like these things could happen to anybody in any building.

    A/C---I'd like to find out if there is a service bulletin that relates to the problem I experienced. I'm kinda POed at the dealer because I don't think they put their best effort into finding out what was wrong.
  • vocusvocus Member Posts: 7,777
    I heard a blurb on the television in the "oasis" (our lunch room at work) about a plane crashing into the 25th and 26th floor of a building. I didn't hear the rest of it though, because this was around 1pm EST when it first happend. I am going to check CNN now about it.
  • mdaffronmdaffron Member Posts: 4,421
    Here's one for YOU ...

    Wayyyy back in 1987 I purchased a 1988 Hyundai Excel. It was actually a great little car (hey, for $7,100!) and I drove it for Pizza Hut and put more than 110,000 miles on it in only four years. Only had one problem, which I'll get to now:

    The warranty on the car expired at 36,000 miles. At 42,000 miles, I was driving down a neighborhood street when my transmission seized. Yep, seized. Both front wheels locked up and I came to a forceful halt. (Thank God I wasn't on the highway.) To shorten a long story, I was told my manual tranny had a very small amount of fluid in it, and it had overheated and seized. I raised holy hell -- I'd done all my recommended maintenance at the dealer, kept up with all maintenance, etc. -- so they agreed to go 50-50 with me on this $800 repair! Let me tell you, as a college student making car payments and helping pay for school, $400 did not come easily!

    Anyway, I never had another problem with the car, and eventually traded it in on my first Protege, a '92 LX, in October 1991 ... and that was that.

    A few years ago I was playing around on the web one day and found the following recall posted on the NHTSA site:

    Vehicle: 1988 Hyundai Excel
    Potential No. of Units Affected: 515,000

    Defect Summary:
    THE MANUAL TRANSMISSIONS MAY LOCK UP FROM INSUFFICIENT LUBRICATION OF THE GEARS IN THE TRANSMISSION CASE. THIS CAN CAUSE THE DRIVE WHEELS TO SEIZE AND THE VEHICLE TO COME TO A SUDDEN STOP.

    Consequence Summary:
    SUDDEN STOPS WITHOUT PRIOR WARNING CAN CAUSE VEHICLE OCCUPANTS TO BE THROWN AROUND IN THE CAR, AND CAUSE LOSS OF VEHICLE CONTROL WHICH COULD RESULT IN AN ACCIDENT.

    Corrective Summary:
    HYUNDAI WILL PERFORM A COST FREE TRANSMISSION OIL CHANGE.

    But here's the part that made me BOIL!!!!!

    Recall date: 10/25/1993

    Hyundai issued this recall when the car was more than six years old, four years AFTER I PAID 400 LOUSY BUCKS FOR THEIR MISTAKE, and two years AFTER I'd sold it! Man, was I P-I-S-S-E-D!!!!

    Meade

    (BTW, before you say, "Well, what da heck did you expect from Hyundai -- especially back then?" Er, we just received a recall notice in the mail from GM -- problem with ignition switch fires in Chevrolet Cavaliers -- for my wife's 1995 Cavalier. Duh, 7 years after the car was built. (And ooops, we traded that Crapalier on a 2002 Protege5 three months ago!!!)
  • protege_fanprotege_fan Member Posts: 2,405
    Don't think that exterior colour has much to do with interior temperature. I would say that interior colour would have much, much more positive/negative effects on temperature.

    Anyway, let's cut this here...this will turn into one of the Dino vs. Synth arguments (ie. little true data, lots of opinion).
  • mdaffronmdaffron Member Posts: 4,421
    you think it doesn't have any effect. Are you not aware of the fact that white reflects heat and black absorbs it? Have you ever touched a black car sitting in the sun, and then touched a white one? That metal gets hot -- and steel is a good conductor of heat. The hot exterior warms up the interior. Let me tell you, my wife has a white P5, and the difference in temperature between the two during our last few days of 95-degree temperatures has been quite noticeable.

    Meade

    P.S. You ever seen those "solar shower" things they sell campers? You fill 'em with water, let them hang in the sun all day, and then you have a hot shower that evening? There's a reason the bag is BLACK ...
  • fritz1224fritz1224 Member Posts: 398
    I never really have left. Just like to lurk and chime in occassionally.
    Draymond, C and L is where I got my 2k es at. I didn't have a trade and the sale went smoothly. They gave me my 5sp for 14k and I felt ok with that(2.9 apr loan for 36mo also). But their service dept. looked kind of shabby. Crowded, cluttered and small. Although I have had very few service related visits, I have gone to Bluegrass Motorsports on shelbyville road for them. A lot nicer layout and they just seem to be a more modern facility. The dealership being located in the east end has something to do with it I'm sure.
  • mdaffronmdaffron Member Posts: 4,421
    I saw a white Corolla FX16 in my neighborhood yesterday. Of course it made me think about you. Tell me -- how long did you keep yours? How would you compare its engine and handling to your Protege? I test-drove one, but geesh, that was 15 or 16 years ago now. Did it just feel fast because everything else was so slow back then (and it was also a very light car?) I know it was a 16-valve, DOHC engine, but I can't remember the size. Was it a 1.6?

    Meade
  • protege_fanprotege_fan Member Posts: 2,405
    The incoming solar radiation through the windows creates a greenhouse effect. When the radiation strikes the interior, the waves are reflected back into the glass, but now the wavelength has been slightly changed and cannot escape through the glass, and is therefore reflected back into the car.

    It is true that black absorbs solar radiation. However, it also re-radiates it. The air temperature surrounding the car will be less than the temperature of the paint, as you've said yourselves. Now, heat will move from the paint to the air.

    Now you're probably asking yourself, "well, why wouldn't the heat go into the car then?" Well, I just explained my little greenhouse effect. It is well documented that the temperature inside of a car can be much higher than the external air temperature. Basic thermodynamics dictates that heat will move from an area of high temperature to lower temperature.

    How's that?
  • newcar31newcar31 Member Posts: 3,711
    "Did it just feel fast because everything else was so slow back then (and it was also a very light car?)"

    It was a pretty quick little car. I wouldn't call it fast though. It had Toyota's 4AG 1.6L, the same engine as the MR2.
  • protege_fanprotege_fan Member Posts: 2,405
    Let me point out that Tint is always a dark colour (ie. black/deep purple).
  • mdaffronmdaffron Member Posts: 4,421
    Thank you for that highly scientific explanation. That said, then, explain to me WHY a white car stays cooler inside than a dark car.

    (I have an industrial-grade digital thermometer at home, and dark green and white Proteges. I CAN prove this observation.)

    Meade
  • the_big_hthe_big_h Member Posts: 1,583
    I posted this on the yahoo board, but god knows how long it takes them to post my message :(

    Wil posted info about MAPP3 on the protegemp3 forum, and we have confirmation of a VIVID YELLOW MP3 coming:

    http://forum.protegemp3.com/vbb222/showthread.php?s=&threadid=3261

    I also posted your email address Meade, so he can contact you also.

    this MAPP should be the best one ever!
  • protege_fanprotege_fan Member Posts: 2,405
    Your experiment will be flawed. There are different size of windows, number of windows, etc.
  • mdaffronmdaffron Member Posts: 4,421
    What's the deal with that line, "Even though some of the guys are old, they are still cool (i guess)?"

    DON'T MAKE US THROW YOU IN THE SHENANDOAH RIVER WITH PAUL'S JETTA!!!

    :-o

    Meade
  • protege_fanprotege_fan Member Posts: 2,405
    I would still be interested in your results, Meade.
  • the_big_hthe_big_h Member Posts: 1,583
    throw his 94 LX instead, they're both white cars!!! :D

    **** holds onto my own car with dear life ***
  • mdaffronmdaffron Member Posts: 4,421
    OK, OK, not worth the effort. You're right. White cars and black cars are the same temperature in the summer.

    I guess that's why my beige-shingled roof is warranted to keep my house cooler and the shingles are guaranteed to last 10 years longer than the same ones in black. You're right. Black doesn't transmit heat. And this multi-million-dollar roofing products company doesn't know what the heck it's talking about.

    Drop it. Sorry I was wrong.

    Meade
  • chikoochikoo Member Posts: 3,008
    that is nothing....

    I recd. a recall for my 1989 built Ford taurus last year(2001) for engine frame mounts......
  • protege_fanprotege_fan Member Posts: 2,405
    Huh? I never said black didn't transmit heat. I said the exact opposite!
  • chikoochikoo Member Posts: 3,008
    is scientifically proven to cool down faster than white color......once they both are at the same temperature.....
  • chikoochikoo Member Posts: 3,008
    is painted black......to keep it losing heat faster.....
  • mdaffronmdaffron Member Posts: 4,421
    You might get wet. Sorry dude -- you're guilty by association.

    Tell Wil he oughta be proud of us "senior" members (at age 37, lol), that we still appreciate the fun things in life that the Protege provides so perfectly.

    Meade
  • protege_fanprotege_fan Member Posts: 2,405
  • mdaffronmdaffron Member Posts: 4,421
    There's now a yellow MP3 and a silver Protege5 coming to MAPP III! Guys, this is a record. We're fast approaching 20 Proteges of all generations -- especially now that we have an MP3 coming!!! And the crowd is approaching (or has it already reached -- have to do a recount) two dozen people! Maybe THIS TIME Mazda North America will turn an interested eye our way!

    MAPP III -- The Legacy Continues. In One Month.

    Meade
  • mdaffronmdaffron Member Posts: 4,421
    Don't be all sore. I still love you man. (Like a brother, that is.) Let's all join hands and sing,

    "Ebony and Ivory,
    Live together in perfect harmony ...
    Side by side in my driveway,
    Oh Lord, dear Lord, why don't we?"

    (Sorry, Paul and Michael.)

    Meade

    P.S. I'm outta here for the day once again. It's 87 and sunny here in Richmond. Time to zoom!
  • newcar31newcar31 Member Posts: 3,711
    have any ideas on my A/C problem? I honestly forgot about it until someone brought it up. Maltb?
  • protege_fanprotege_fan Member Posts: 2,405
    I thought you said your car was green :P
    Have fun!
  • protege_fanprotege_fan Member Posts: 2,405
    What problem?
  • mdaffronmdaffron Member Posts: 4,421
    OK.

    "Broccoli and Ivory,
    Park Together in Perfect Harmony,
    Side by Side in my Driveway,
    OK, Michael, You Happy?"

    Hee hee, snicker guffaw ...

    Meade
  • protege_fanprotege_fan Member Posts: 2,405
    Very....ROTFLMAO!!!!
    Broccoli..heheheheheheheh
  • newcar31newcar31 Member Posts: 3,711
    Since it was lost in all the posts, I'll re-post it.

    "I had a problem with my A/C. I had taken a 5 hour road trip to northern Minnesota last summer and the A/C quit working about 3 hours into the trip. The fan barely blew any air (even on the "4" setting) and the air that it did blow was warm. I stopped to get something to eat and when I came back to the car, the A/C worked just fine. On the way back, it did it again about 2 hours into the trip. I parked the car, let it sit a while, and the A/C worked fine again. When I took it to the dealer, they said the could not duplicate the problem, therefore they could not fix it. Obviously, the reason why they could not duplicate the problem is because it only happens with extended A/C use which leads me to believe that something is freezing up (condensor, compressor, I dunno know) and when I park the car, the frozen part thaws out. I don't go on many road trips, so I don't know how I will ever be able to duplicate the problem and if I do, I will be far away from a Mazda dealer. IMO, they shouldn't have to duplicate the problem to be able to fix it. I am not about to let a dealer tech take my car on a road trip to diagnose it and I doubt the dealer would want to either. They already know the symptom, they just need to diagnose it. I guess as long as it's documented, I won't worry about it."
  • protege_fanprotege_fan Member Posts: 2,405
    You're probably right...sounds like a small leak somewhere causing a vital component to freeze. Shouldn't they be able to test for a leak somehow?
  • the_big_hthe_big_h Member Posts: 1,583
    actually a couple months after I got my car back from the deer accident. One day when I turned on the A/C, only warm air came out, and the a/c condenser didn't run even after I turned on the A/C button. Took it to dealer, and they used a dye to trace the lines and found a leak in the piping (probably a missed broken part when fixing the car from deer accident), had it fixed under warranty, been running cold air ever since :)
  • newcar31newcar31 Member Posts: 3,711
    The dealer won't even attempt to find out what is wrong until they can duplicate it. I find that to be unreasonable because I am not going to drive around for hours before I bring it into the dealer.
  • draymond2draymond2 Member Posts: 134
    I think a might true Bluegrass next time. I allways felt a little uneasy taking my car to a different dealership from where I purchased.
  • vocusvocus Member Posts: 7,777
    I had the dealer tell me the same thing about my radio. It would start to lose sound when I played music that was loud or had alot of bass. So one day, I popped in a CD on the way to work (a 45 minute drive) and it started cutting in and out. I put the same song on repeat until I got to the dealer by work. Once I let the service manager see the radio, they ordered me a new one. The new one started to do the same thing though, but I got rid of the car before it had to be replaced again.
  • protege_fanprotege_fan Member Posts: 2,405
    Can you try another service center?
  • maltbmaltb Member Posts: 3,572
    Are you just playing devil's advocate? I can't believe that you think the color of the car's roof doesn't make a difference in the interior temperature. Even back in 1971 when they built my old Land Cruiser, they were smart enough to give it a White roof regardless of what body color it was.

    As I stated before, I have had exact cars in different colors and it makes a difference, a big difference.
  • protege_fanprotege_fan Member Posts: 2,405
    I am no longer speaking on this matter. ;)
  • dsm6dsm6 Member Posts: 813
    It should have been clear to the service techs that the problem would only crop up with extended use of the AC. With that in mind, they should have kept your car long enough to test the AC under - imagine this - extended use. They evidently took short cuts in trying to move your case on through. Same as not looking for TSBs.

    I'd take it back and ask them to try keeping it and running it for a while - in other words, they should drive it around for hours to see if it will still work. Actually I'd try another service dept. if one is available, and see if they make that suggestion, and if they don't I'd suggest it to them. They'd probably want to keep it over night. Just my two cents.

    If anyone finds a conciencious service dept., please let us all know. I'm still searching. Hopefully with the new Mazda I won't require their "service" - in quotes 'cause I'm not sure you really get much service.
  • dsm6dsm6 Member Posts: 813
    the original poster's AC (who was it?) should blow plenty cold - it didn't. As to how effectively it cools down the car depending upon color, ...
  • dinu01dinu01 Member Posts: 2,586
    I will echo Mike's word and say that the A/C in my 2001 ES blows cool air in the frigid Canadian summers, regardless if it's in town or on the highway. Actually on the highway it gets pretty cold, I have to turn the know towards heat a little:) BTW, It's been 25-29 all of this week here in T.O.

    Dinu
  • newcar31newcar31 Member Posts: 3,711
    I could try a different dealer. I believe there are 5 Mazda dealers in the Twin Cities Metro. I shouldn't have to though. The service department shouldn't have to duplicate the problem either. I DO NOT want them to idle my car for hours (this is not good for the car) just to get the problem to crop up again. Maltb, do you have anything to add?
  • maltbmaltb Member Posts: 3,572
    but I will comment on your dealer not being able to duplicate the prob. If I tell you that my PC freezes up, but can't duplicate it, how would you know what was wrong and what to fix? I don't think it's so unreasonable that a dealer can't do anything. I admit it's annoying to the hilt to have an intermittent prob., but if they have no idea what it's doing wrong, just what should they replace?

    I'll try to check for you tomorrow Todd.
  • protege_fanprotege_fan Member Posts: 2,405
    But it wouldn't be so hard to say, "well, it sounds like it may be xxxx. Let's try this and see if that can narrow down your problem." I don't think that's unreasonable.
  • newcar31newcar31 Member Posts: 3,711
    I see what you are saying, but an A/C system is much less complicated than a PC. It could only be a couple of things wrong with the A/C, wheras with a PC, it could be a million different things.
  • dsm6dsm6 Member Posts: 813
    I can understand not wanting to just throw parts at a problem, but if that is their policy then they should try better to duplicate the problem. If that means driving around in it for a long while - I mean really driving it so it doesn't just idle - then that is what they should be doing if they don't want to just start swapping out parts. In other words, they should be more conscientious about actually trying to duplicate the conditions under which the problem occurs.
  • yooper53yooper53 Member Posts: 286
    Thanks for the pics. especially Marine Corps Base Quantico. Man, the flood of memories!
  • maltbmaltb Member Posts: 3,572
    If you want them to aimlessly swap parts, be willing to pay more for the car.

    When a dealer replaces a part under warranty, the manufacturer can call the part back in for testing. If it's not bad, they will charge the dealer back for the part. The manufacturer does this because they don't want dealers become part swappers, but rather to have knowledgeable technicians all in the name of saving high warranty expenses.

    Maybe they could add a premium for what they call superior service. For an additional $2,500 they will throw parts at your car for the term of the warranty if anything is less than flawless regardless if they can verify that there is in fact a problem.

    I can picture it now:
    Customer (C): Hi, I need my seats replaced.
    Dealer (D): Ummm, ok, what seems to be the problem?
    C: Well, it squeaks.
    D: Oh...ok...hmmm, I don't hear it squeaking but I see that box cutter you carry in your back pocket did a number on the seat cover.
    C: oh, that? uh, yeah...but the reason I want my seat replaced is for an intermittent squeak...really, it is.
    D: yes sir mr. customer, we'll replace that right away along with the scratched...er....a....intermittently visable windsheild.

    :) Just having fun with you guys. I'm not saying you'd ever do that Todd, but I know others would and do take advantage of that.
  • newcar31newcar31 Member Posts: 3,711
    Understandable, but the way things go at the dealership with my problem makes me think that it will never get fixed. Your seat example makes sense, but there is absolutely no benefit for me to have my A/C fixed other than the fact that it would work ALL the time, even on long road trips. If it only happens during extended use, and if the dealership MUST duplicate the problem, the problem will never be solved. Here's why: The only extended use the A/C will ever get is on road trips. Chances are, I will not be near a Mazda dealer when the A/C acts up and if I am, I do not want to take the time out of my trip to get it fixed. The problem is not that complicated and given the symptoms, the dealer should be able to use deductive reasoning to figure it out.
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