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Mazda Protegé

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Comments

  • nematodenematode Member Posts: 448
    I was born and raised with manuals (Hindustani Ambassador 3spd column, WV Fox 4spd, Corolla, Mustang GT, 3000GT VR-4). I passed my drivers test in a manual. Yet, I currently have an 01 ES auto. I would NEVER again get a manual for a daily driver. To me the Protege is not a sports car. It has has a nice ride and driving dynamics for an economy car BUT unless you have some kind of primal need to row your.....why?

    Benefits (to a manual):
    1) You lean manual on a car that does not cost much. I learned on a Hindustani Ambassador (same as a Morris Oxford). If I remember correctly it had a whopping 36hp diesel. It lasted my grandfather 40 years before he sold it for more than he paid. The Mustang GT was the worst manual I had. The clutch was heavy and unforgiving. The 3000GT was the best.
    2) You learn to pay attention to your driving.
    3) So lets say you get really good with a manual you may get to 60mph in 9sec in stead of 9.5sec in the ES. But dont kid youself here most people driving a manual will lose to an auto.
    4) IF you autocross or track your car a manual is way more fun. I suspect that 1/10000 of Protege owners do this.
    5) 1mpg in fuel economy.
    6) Costs less by $500-800 initially.

    I understand getting a manual in a car like a Z06 or an M3 but do you really want one in a 130hp daily driver? Some do and some do not. I would never get a manual in a daily driver again. It was really fun when I was 15 years old, I liked it when I was 25, and now that I'm well north of 30....I'll just stick with manuals in sports cars that are weekend drivers.
  • mdaffronmdaffron Member Posts: 4,421
    The manual Protege, believe it or not, gets LOWER gas mileage than the automatic. The manual runs faster rpms at a given speed than the automatic. I have a 2000 ES 5-speed; a friend of mine has the identical car in an automatic -- his window sticker showed a 2-3 mpg increase over mine, and sure enough he gets about 35 on the highway and I only average about 32.

    Meade
  • dsm6dsm6 Member Posts: 813
    Edmunds has a review:


    http://www.edmunds.com/reviews/roadtests/spin/48985/article.html


    Not the best of the available true manumatics, but certainly the least expensive.

  • newcar31newcar31 Member Posts: 3,711
    "But dont kid youself here most people driving a manual will lose to an auto."

    First of all, speak for yourself. Second of all, it depends on what kind of car you are talking about. On some models, the autos are not that much slower, while on others it makes a huge difference.
  • protegextwoprotegextwo Member Posts: 1,265
    "Considering Protege's don't seem to be worth crap after you drive them off the lot,..."
    -Vocus

    I disagree, it has been well documented. The Mazda Protege's rate of deprecation falls into the middle of the econo car pack. Several do better and several do worse. Overall, all cars depreciate the fastest in year one and two of ownership. You traded your 2001 waaaay to soon to be financially prudent. Furthermore, with all the swirl marks and scratches on your Black Mica paint, your 2001 PRO-ES was not the pristine used car; most folks would expect to find on a resale lot. Lastly, your 2001 Protege was pretty thick on miles, right?

    Here is how I look at my future situation. My 60 month old, well cared for, loaded 2000 PRO-ES will prolly sell for $4,250 private sale and a like Honda Civic EX should sell for $6,750. However, I paid at least $2750 less for my car new. Pretty reasonable? However, if you compare a 2 year old used Civic to a 2 year old Protege, deprecation advantage Civic; BIG TIME.

    -Love Train
  • maltbmaltb Member Posts: 3,572
    Sounds like it's moving in the right direction but I would hope more for a clutchless shift than a pause, breathe, shift situation. F1 or bust!

    Req. Con. = The Pro may see this in 15 years, unless it gets a CVT much sooner.
  • dsm6dsm6 Member Posts: 813
    I just saw the stickers on the 02 pros (just bought one about a month ago). 25/30 for auto. 25/31 for manual. That's what I used to tell at a quick glance whether or not a Pro on the lot was a manual or auto. So 02 manual is higher according to the EPA.

    Autos are typically geared a bit taller than manuals for a given car to make up some for the torque converter loss. That, plus lock-up tc's make for comparable, as EPA rated, fuel efficiency, but at the expense of off the line thrust and control. Besides, the tc won't lock up until you're cruising, so around town/accelerating you still lose efficiency over the manual. It has been my experience that the manual nets you a few mpg over the auto. Maybe Meade has a heavier foot than his pal. ;-)
  • dsm6dsm6 Member Posts: 813
    are on their way. Used in hybrids, alternative fuel models, and now on the A4 (front wheel drive only for now). Soon to be on other cars, even some econoboxes (eg., possibly the Focus) in the not so distant future (few years?). Should actually be pretty cool, IMO, but why did Audi take away some of the advantages by forcing it to emulate a traditional auto in the US bound A4?

    Hopefully enthusiast oriented cars will get an option of a true manumatic even when the CVTs take over.
  • vocusvocus Member Posts: 7,777
    Actually, I got $11,500 for the car. KBB rated its price as $10,715 at the time. I did better than the KBB value, which is almost unheard of. I was shocked myself. Still, a car that MSRPed for $18,445 new (I still have the sticker from the window) should not drop $7500 in 8 months and 20K miles. That's way too much.

    I had a cracked windshield when I traded the car as well, and the big scratch on the front of it. They took it anyway, and still gave me that much for it. I was surprised.

    With the 1999 DX, it had 37,364 on it when traded, and they offered $7500. That was the KBB price for like equipped car, add power sunroof (mine was aftermarket installed, as you all know). That's still kind of a lot, and the DX was traded at the 2 year point.
  • maltbmaltb Member Posts: 3,572
    did you pay sticker for your Pro? If you did, I'm very sorry. If you didn't, you should calculate what you really lost vs the unrealistic loss you never had. BTW, the slick work of a finance person's pen is not the car's fault.
  • dsm6dsm6 Member Posts: 813
    Many have told me - you just wait and see - when you get older, you're not going to want to be driving a manual all the time, nor will you want those sporty cars with their stiff suspensions.

    Anybody read Cory Farley's article in the latest issue of Autoweek? He and I agree on this - it may be true that, for many people, they grow tired of rowing their own gears on a daily basis, or get tired of a stiff suspension for a daily driver, but not I - and I can't imagine it happening anytime soon.

    Each person is his or her own being, and I guess I'm just atypical in this respect. I'm north of 30, but not by much. Still, I can't see wanting to give up my manual, or some form close to it like a manumatic, any time soon. Same goes for trading in handling for a cushy ride.
  • protegextwoprotegextwo Member Posts: 1,265
    Actually, I got $11,500 for the car. KBB rated its price as $10,715 at the time. I did better than the KBB value, which is almost unheard of. I was shocked myself. Still, a car that MSRPed for $18,445 new (I still have the sticker from the window) should not drop $7500 in 8 months and 20K miles. That's way too much.

    Paul, who you trying to kid, lol? I saw your many posts at SMART SHOPPER: "Real-World Trade-In Values". You know darn well that Kelly's Blue Book has ZERO to due with the auction/resale value of any used car. You tried to get Bill and Terry to admit you got a good deal on your VeeDub. They both told you in different posts, that you received an over-allowance on your Protege. Bottom line: You may have purchased the cars YOU wanted, when YOU wanted them, nonetheless you are far from an astute proselyte of car buying knowledge. A Mazda Protege will resale for what the market will bring. Historically, the resale/residual vales for a Protege runs in the middle of the econo car pact.

    -old head
  • seminole_kevseminole_kev Member Posts: 1,696
    resale is fine for what it is. Compacts don't tend to hold their resale as well as some higher end cars. Too much competition from orginally more expensive used cars and from new models of the same car. I always hear about how great the Civic's resale value is, but when you factor in that it cost more new, it's a very small difference in the end.
  • implicitimplicit Member Posts: 41
    My ES 2.0 Auto with sport mode(whatever that is) came with the options below.

    ES PREMIUM PACKAGE, SPORT MODE 4-SPD AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION W/OVERDRIVE, CARGO NET, PERIMETER SHOCK SENSOR ALARM, WHEEL LOCKS.

    No rebates all they had ws O% for 24months.
  • number42number42 Member Posts: 67
    are you telling me i should have waited for the sports shifter?
  • the_big_hthe_big_h Member Posts: 1,583
    not bad at all implicit, especially that sport shift automatic. do you also have leather seats?
  • vocusvocus Member Posts: 7,777
    I paid $17,141 for the Protege ES. The MSRP was $18,445. I think I got a really good deal, since I paid $250 UNDER dealer invoice through the S plan. I saved alot of money in the purchase, but still lost money because the car lost so much value.

    I thought it would hold more, but I guess not.
  • newcar31newcar31 Member Posts: 3,711
    "I thought it would hold more, but I guess not."

    THINK about it. Do you expect a dealer to give you much more? Used cars sales aren't the greatest when every manufacturer and their grandmothers are offering 0% financing (at least they were when you were trading in). Your car also had high mileage, scratches, a broken windshield, and lots of options (these kill your resale value because you won't get nearly as much for them as you paid). Who in their right mind would buy your well used Protege for the same price (or more because of financing) as a brand new one with less options?
  • the_big_hthe_big_h Member Posts: 1,583
    didn't we go over vocus' trade-in many MANY times several months ago? Is there a need to repeat? :o
  • vocusvocus Member Posts: 7,777
    They actually had the car listed for $13,900 at the dealership for sale. It took them 2 months, but they finally sold it. I don't know if the person actually paid that for it though. The dealership manager told me a young couple bought my old car. I have never seen it, or another black Protege for that matter, around Baltimore or Maryland.

    And right now, there is a dealer called Crystal in Md. with the same exact car I had for sale. It has 13,500 miles, and is up for $14,900.
  • vocusvocus Member Posts: 7,777
    I didn't realize there was a limit to which topics could be talked about in this forum. Thanks for informing us.
  • the_big_hthe_big_h Member Posts: 1,583
    always glad to help ;-)
  • rbrooks3rbrooks3 Member Posts: 174
    Are you people really trying to tell me that my Protege was not manufactured in Maranello or Woking? Really?! Now I am insulted. Next you're going to try to tell me that I don't have pneumatically actualted valves.

    The only point I was making is that once you don't use the left foot for clutch work, it is always faster to use your left foot to activate the brakes because there is a smaller lag time than there is in sliding the right foot over. It has nothing to do with the output of the engine or how fast the automatic gear changes are. It only has to do with cutting the time of wanting the brakes activated to actually getting them activated to the smallest possible amount of time. Heel and toe is only used because you have three pedals and only two feet. Hey, maybe I'm looking at this all wrong, all we really need is a third foot...or just two pedals. Quick, someone call Detroit or Darwin!
  • vocusvocus Member Posts: 7,777
    While you mention it, what does it mean to "heel and toe" drive? I always wanted to know. Thanks.
  • dsm6dsm6 Member Posts: 813
    in your manual if you think you need that edge. If you really do need it, then stalling probably isn't going to matter, and if it does, then just pull the car out of gear sans disengaging the clutch.

    Heck, even better yet, you could do it every single time you brake by tranfering the brake pedal from the left to the right foot before you need to disengage the clutch - with no loss of braking speed on any stop. The two (manuals and left foot braking) aren't really mutually exclusive. Hopefully you aren't doing too many "panic" stops where that faction of a second might matter, though, unlike the F1 boys (there's your F1 tie in, nothing to do with engine output or how fast their semi-autos shift).

    Please don't call Detroit for the clutchless manual. They'll just botch it up. It will be here soon enough without their "help"
  • seminole_kevseminole_kev Member Posts: 1,696
    Just curious, how are they defining "value"? Just curious if they are using MSRP, actual average transaction price, or something else.
  • crikeycrikey Member Posts: 1,041
    Is this new? Edmund's and Kelly Blue Book is quoting $750 rebate. How are people getting the $1500 rebate? Been looking at Pro5 for a while and this might actually clinch it for me.
  • protegextwoprotegextwo Member Posts: 1,265
    Meade, I'm very verrry sorry my good friend, I must be in Nashville
    TN the weekend of the picnic. I didn't want to influence your date
    selection for MAPP 3, because of my uncertain job situation. I was
    afraid if I told you a particular weekend was better than another, I
    might be wrong as things at Cracker Barrel moved forward. Sooo, I
    left it to chance? My heart really hurts because, I will be away that
    weekend. I'm really sad. Nevertheless, I'm sure the weather will be
    awesome, because the first two were a little cold and wet! I will be
    with you guys in spirit. Perhaps, you can e-mail me your cell phone
    number and I can call you "mad men and ladies" and check on the
    festivities?

    -Love Train
    AKA Larry(prox2)
  • dsm6dsm6 Member Posts: 813
    is 1500 for pro sedan, 750 for pro5, last I checked anyway (about 1 month ago). Plus you can get another 500 if you are a recent graduate.
  • protege_fanprotege_fan Member Posts: 2,405
    For a detailed explanation of heel-and-toe shifting, goto www.turnfast.com
    Good articles there.
    Basically, you turn your foot so that your toe is on the brake and your heel is able to blip the throttle in a turn.
  • crikeycrikey Member Posts: 1,041
  • the_big_hthe_big_h Member Posts: 1,583
    courtesy of Edmunds! (where IS my check Edmunds!?!?)

    http://www.edmunds.com/ownership/howto/articles/45792/article.html
  • vocusvocus Member Posts: 7,777
    You aren't coming to the picnic? Well if you are not coming, then I am not going either. :(
  • protege_fanprotege_fan Member Posts: 2,405
    In the Pro sucks. The pedals are too small...for me at least. Also, the Edmunds article says to use the ball of your foot...I know there are some throttle pedals out there that are wider at the bottom, making it easier to use your heel...not the ball of your foot.
  • chicagoprochicagopro Member Posts: 1,009
    Are you serious about not going to MAPP? Say it ain't so!!
  • protegextwoprotegextwo Member Posts: 1,265
    ALG(Auto Leasing Guide) is the number one company, leading institutions use to calulate lease depreciation. Their site provides residual value data for new automobiles.
    http://alg.com/>
    http://12.107.25.158/muni/purisima.asp

    Here is how they rate:
    24 months-
    2001 Honda Civic ES retains 61% of it's value.
    2001 Volks Jetta GLS retains 61% of it's value.
    2001 Toyota ECHO retains 56% of it's value.
    2001 Nissan Sentra SE retains 55% of it's value.
    2001 Saturn SL2 retains 55% of it's value.
    2001 Toyota Corolla LE retains 54% of it's value.
    2001 Ford Focus ZTS retains 54% of it's value.
    2001 Mazda Protege ES retains 53% of it's value.
    2001 Subaru Impreza AWD retains 52% of it's value.
    2001 Hyundai Elantra GLS retains 45% of it's value.
    2001 Chevy Cavalier LS retains 44% of it's value.
    2001 Suzuki Esteem GLX+ retains 43% of it's value.
    2001 Daewoo Nubira CDX retains 43% of it's value.
    2001 Dodge Neon ES retains 40% of it's value.
    2001 KIA Spectra GSX retains 37% of it's value.

    48 months-
    2001 Honda Civic ES retains 46% of it's value.
    2001 Volks Jetta GLS retains 46% of it's value.
    2001 Nissan Sentra SE retains 41% of it's value.
    2001 Toyota Corolla LE retains 41% of it's value.
    2001 Toyota ECHO retains 39% of it's value.
    2001 Saturn SL2 retains 39% of it's value.
    2001 Mazda Protege ES retains 38% of it's value.
    2001 Ford Focus ZTS retains 38% of it's value.
    2001 Subaru Impreza AWD retains 38% of it's value.
    2001 Hyundai Elantra GLS retains 30% of it's value.
    2001 Chevy Cavalier LS retains 32% of it's value.
    2001 Suzuki Esteem GLX+ retains 30% of it's value.
    2001 Daewoo Nubira CDX retains 29% of it's value.
    2001 Dodge Neon ES retains 28% of it's value.
    2001 KIA Spectra GSX retains 25% of it's value.

    60 months-
    2001 Honda Civic ES retains 41% of it's value.
    2001 Volks Jetta GLS retains 40% of it's value.
    2001 Toyota Corolla LE retains 36% of it's value.
    2001 Nissan Sentra SE retains 35% of it's value.
    2001 Toyota ECHO retains 33% of it's value.
    2001 Saturn SL2 retains 33% of it's value.
    2001 Mazda Protege ES retains 32% of it's value.
    2001 Ford Focus ZTS retains 32% of it's value.
    2001 Subaru Impreza AWD retains 32% of it's value.
    2001 Hyundai Elantra GLS retains 24% of it's value.
    2001 Chevy Cavalier LS retains 27% of it's value.
    2001 Suzuki Esteem GLX+ retains 26% of it's value.
    2001 Daewoo Nubira CDX retains %24 of it's value.
    2001 Dodge Neon ES retains 24% of it's value.
    2001 KIA Spectra GSX retains 20% of it's value.

    Pretty interesting?

    -Love Train
  • the_big_hthe_big_h Member Posts: 1,583
    so have you tried both ways? (using ball of foot or heel)
  • chikoochikoo Member Posts: 3,008
    I started out manual on the same "Hindustani Ambassador" as nematode, albeit with a 4spd column in the year 1985 and then moving to a suzuki 4 speed floor until 1998, i think as a concept left foot braking CAN work.

    Hell, if i can train my left foot to push a clutch pedal down accurately to manipulate the wheel spin, why not a brake pedal?
  • protege_fanprotege_fan Member Posts: 2,405
    I deleted my last post. I just went out to my car, and it's not so bad using the ball of the foot.
  • vocusvocus Member Posts: 7,777
    I get back pain sometimes, because I have permanent damage from a car accident I had about 4 years ago. I use my left foot to brake sometimes because my right leg gets tired. I can modulate it pretty well, but not as good as I can with my right foot (of course).
  • chikoochikoo Member Posts: 3,008
    why does my ES exhibit such low power when it stays overnight in conditions less than 40F?

    But after it warms up viz. the heater starts blowing hot air on my foot, the car runs fine.

    But till then,...it's a dog... with the engine sounding horrible, resonating through the passenger cabin when u press the gas pedal to climb up the slightest of slopes....unwilling to rev.....

    also since i have ur attention, i remember u once mentioning that the 99 ES has a ignition coil problem. What exactly did u mean?
  • protegextwoprotegextwo Member Posts: 1,265
    "Just curious, how are they defining "value"? Just curious if they are using MSRP, actual average transaction price, or something else."

    Automotive Lease Guide, is a privately held company in Santa Barbara, California. ALG has been the benchmark for residual values in the United States and Canada for over 35 years and it's objective is to provide residual values to the Automotive Industry. Seminole_kev I'm sure you can e-mail them with any questions you might have. I guess, I get a little hissed off when folks without the correct info make off the cuff statements of fiction and try to pass them as fact because they sit behind a monitor screen in an anonymous stupor. As you can see the 2001 Mazda Protege is projected to have average depreciation/residual value.

    -love train
  • vocusvocus Member Posts: 7,777
    I wanna come, but it's not going to be as fun without Larry coming to the picnic as well. And as far as dates, I am not really flexible either. I am out of town for Memorial Day weekend, and for the first weekend in May as well.
  • chicagoprochicagopro Member Posts: 1,009
    (sorry, buddy, it had been a few days)
  • vocusvocus Member Posts: 7,777
    You posted the same thing one more time as you did before.

    I am just glad I am at the top of that value equation now though. :)
  • protege_fanprotege_fan Member Posts: 2,405
    So you finally pop out of the woodwork, and what do you do? Sigh...some things never change :P
  • seminole_kevseminole_kev Member Posts: 1,696
    No I understand. I wasn't trying to be a jerk ;-) Just was hoping they were using MSRP for "value". If so then my Focus, and your Proteges would be doing pretty darn good. Glad you ran across that link. Now if they were using actual, what you paid for it prices, then we're hurting a little more.
  • chicagoprochicagopro Member Posts: 1,009
    Excuse me, but I'm going to be there...and we all know how much fun I am. (well, you don't, really, but trust me)

    Hope to see you there.
  • protegextwoprotegextwo Member Posts: 1,265
    Paul, I deleted the originals.
  • protege_fanprotege_fan Member Posts: 2,405
    Interesting info on the values....I'm surprised the Impreza doesn't hold its value better. They are rare commodities around here. Actually, Just saw a used WRX in the paper for $33K (regular $36K). I'll bet it gets snapped up fast!

    The dealers here are selling lease returned LX Pros for near MSRP...what are they thinking?
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