Mazda Protegé

autonomous · February 2005

Hi Andrew,

You said: "Anyway I will take them either to arbitration or court, after 6 attempts and 40 days (and counting), I will not just let them off the hook."

I empathize with your predicament but I wonder if your course of action will achieve your goal.

When you say "them" to whom are you referring : Mazda, MazdaUSA, your Mazda dealer?

Did your dealership provide the new seat or any related service to address this problem free of charge or at a reduced charge?

Do you think that you could prove that the problem is not the result of normal wear and tear?

Do you know of any similar cases or do you have any written statement by Mazda of this being a general problem?

Wouldn't the argument from the other side be something like we have made reasonable attempts to fix the problem and do not feel that we are obligated for further expenses?

Would you be satisfied if the court judged in your favour by compensating you with a sum of money that it deemed reasonable? If so, what would that reasonable sum be? If the sum is below that amount what would you do with the car?

What legal costs would you assume if you do not prevail?

lawman1967 · February 2005

Well, the problem was brought to the one dealer's attention at only 1200 miles (the car remains under warranty), and now has 22,000. Two dealers have worked on the seat, replacing the seat and the tracks under warranty with no change in the sound.

It is not a minor annoyance, but loud enough to be heard over the stereo, definitely not normal or in any way related to wear and tear (1200 miles?).

All it will take is a drive around the block for any arbitrator to hear how bad it is, something even the shop foreman at my dealer and the Mazda regional service manager both noted on test drives.

It is also not the only problem. The car has been plagued with rattles since new (first attempt at dash rattle was the day I bought the car, 8 attempts later it is still there). Even Mercedes produces the occasional lemon, but I am certainly not going to just tollerate it. Whether Mazda USA thinks rattles and squeaks is not important, its what I think and what an arbitrator or judge thinks that matters. It is loud enough to fight over.

autonomous · February 2005

Let us all know how it goes and best of luck!

lawman1967 · February 2005

Well, Star Mazda called me today and said the car was ready (after 29 days in the shop). So far, its quiet, though in the past their repairs have quietted it down for a week or two and the sound has returned.

One thing that was interesting is they said that they replaced the entire seatbelt, the clasp and its mount down near the handbrake (inside of driver's seat). The new seatbelt clast moves a lot more freely than the old one did and seems very well lubricated, so with any luck that was the problem.

Funny thing was the service manage told me that the regional rep from Mazda said that if this didn't fix it, to have me file for a new car, meaning Mazda isn't willing to try again. Of course, given the $759 rental car bill they just paid for me, I'm not surprised.

Andrew

autonomous · February 2005

Wow, that's one pricey squeak! Sounds like over $1K has gone into solving the problem. Hope this finally does it and you get to enjoy your zoomer!

lawman1967 · February 2005

$759 for the rental car this time, at least $200 for the rental cars the other five times, not to mention the cost of the new seat, new tracks, seatbelt and clasp assemblies, and probably highest of all, the many hours of labor it took to replace the parts and trying to figure out the problem.

I do hope this is it, because despite all the headache, I like this car quite a bit and want to keep it, but only without the cheap motel sound.

bottgers · February 2005

I'm in the market for a used, economical, super reliable sedan. I was only considering the Corolla and Civic until recently when I started reading what's on the forums about the Protege. Everyone who owns one really seems to like their Protege.

Just so you know what I'm looking for, cars around 5-6 years old are probably going to fall into my price range.

From what I've read about the Protege, it seems to be a very reliable car, and maybe a bit more fun to drive than a Civic or a Corolla. I'm just wondering if it's as well built and reliable. The reliability records of the Honda and Toyota speak for themselves, but the Protege is more of a car you don't hear much about. At least I don't anyway.

Here are the pros and cons I've noticed so far. The Protege doesn't seem to hold it's value quite as well as the Civic or Corolla. This obviously is a good thing when it's time to buy and a bad thing when it's time to sell. This may be a better thing overall for me as I tend to keep a vehicle until the wheels fall off and I'm not all that concerned about resale value. There's literally a plethora of Civics and Corollas on the road, while the selection of used Proteges seems pale by comparison. There also seems to be many more Proteges with automatics than those with manuals, and I want a manual. Also, what was the first year Mazda started putting the 2.0 engine in the Protege?

I'd appreciate any input any of you may as to how the Protege directly compares to the Civic and Corolla. Thanks.

pat · February 2005

If anyone has suggestions for bottgers, please reply in the discussion he created at this link: Civic, Corolla, or Protege? instead of here - thanks!

Bottgers, while you are waiting for responses you might want to browse the individual discussions on these vehicles. Check out the "Search This Discussion" feature on the page bar within a discussion - it is very helpful in tracking down posts containing whatever keywords you enter.

And I believe there are some similar comparisons archived that could give you some useful information. You can locate all of the relevant discussions, active and archived, by using the Make/Model search on the left side of the page.

Hope this helps!

marr · February 2005

Andrew,

Very interesting regarding the seatbelt clasp and your squeak. As I said earlier it took me about 3 tries with WD-40 to get rid of my driver's seat squeak on my 01 ES.

If I remember correctly I did not initially spray down in the clasp as I was concentrating more on the tracks etc. underneath the seat. After the initial spray did not quiet the squeak I just looked for anything with metal remotely attached to the seat and sprayed away.

After I sprayed inside the clasp it also made it move much more freely.

Hopefully your problem is now solved and you have many miles of squeak (although maybe not rattle by the sounds of it) free driving !

lawman1967 · February 2005

No, the rattles are still there. Those I can tollerate if Mazda buys me off with either a few Gs or some combination of money and extended warranty.

The squeak was simply intollerable, but hopefully it stays gone.

Andrew

yooper53 · February 2005

Hey all, haven't posted here in a long while. My '01 Pro ES has 62K miles and, according to the owner's manual, should have the timing belt replaced at around 60K. Also indicates temperature is a factor and I live in Michigan's UP. Also on some makes and models they recommend replacing the coolant pump as well since the job is mostly labor. Finance is tight and will remain so for a while. I'm tempted to blow it off. I'd appreciate hearing from folks who have blown it off and for how long. Also those who have done the work, whether you went with the coolant pump, and approximately how much this service cost. Many thanks in advance.
Lawman1967..I sympathize with your noise problem. My car vibrates like hell ( at least it seems that way to me )when in gear at a stop light but stops if put in neutral, and this Only in colder Michigan weather. I can trace it to the exact date when I had a ATF change a couple years ago at the dealer I bought it from. Its proven to be one of those problems that might very well result in the aggravating "could not duplicate problem" so I just put up with it. In an otherwise great car it is upsetting to say the least. The cooler temperature mentioned above is in a quite narrow range as well which doesn't help with troubleshooting so I just grit my teeth.
If I'm not mistaken the '01 was the last pre-Furd models available. So there are no Mazdas in my future. i.e. look at the Tribute/Escape forum.
Hi to mdaffron and fowler3.
Dennis WD8OKJ

mazdafun · February 2005

As a whole, they're above-average in reliability, especially the gen-3 ('99-'03) Proteges. However, there are still some bad ones out there, so check thoroughly before committing.

I've been very happy with my '99LX, and still very happy, even after checking out all the new cars at the local auto show this past weekend. I didn't see a single vehicle I would be willing to get in place of my Protege, including the Mazda3, which would be my first choice (then the Toyota Matrix, Honda Civic, Mistubishi Lancer...the Cobalt looked interesting, but they didn't have any open to sit in for closer inspection). None of them fit the bill for me quite as perfectly as my Protege does. Like Jim, I have major issues with some design aspects of the 3 (sedan's trunk opening WAY too small, lesser outward visibility, etc.), so despite its many superior characteristics, I find it just doesn't fit me. I'd like to like the hatch, but I find its styling off-putting (especially the hindquarters) in addition to less fuel economy. What would make the 3 hatch a better match for me: an 8-way seat, a real hatch latch, the 2.0 engine (I'd be perfectly happy with its power output) and 16in (not 17) wheels, plus a more aftermarket-friendly stereo set-up (or at least an easy & cheap way to plug in my iPod...but those OEM stereos are $$$$ to replace if they fail outside of warranty).

newtoboard · February 2005

I just had my 60K service done on my 99 Protege ES and I have approx. 65K miles on it. I did not have the coolant pump replaced, but did have everything else done on it that they suggested with the 60K service. However, be warned, that when doing the 60K service that the Dealer, yes I took it to the Dealer as it is for a major service job, they check everything. Since they check everything, they might suggest other things that need to be fixed. For example, when doing mine, they said that I needed to have my front brakes changed (granted I had over 30K miles on them). The total amount that I paid for the 60K service by itself was about $800 (I live in NY) I had to pay more because there was other stuff wrong with the car that I needed fixed, but $800 is what the service itself should cost. I don't know if it varies from state to state with the dealers, but it shouldn't be any higher than that. I would recommend not blowing it off as the 60K service is the big one and if the timing belt brakes it could cost you more to fix than just to have it replaced now.

Hope I helped.

Let us know what you decided to do.

mdaffron · March 2005

Just had the front strut bushings (and some kind of linkage arms) replaced in the front of my 2000 ES, at 89,100 miles. The approx. $280 job, parts and labor, was covered by my EasyCare extended warranty, for which I was responsible for a $50 deductible. Man, the car does not clunk at all anymore, which was expected, but what I did NOT expect was how much tighter the car is now! It zooms around corners like it's new again! I only plan to keep the car until the fall, so I'd better get going on breaking in (read: "abusing") this set of bushings!!!

Hey, I gotta get my 50 bucks worth!!!

For the record, that is my first repair in nearly 90K miles. I don't plan to keep the car until its recommended timing belt change at 105,000 miles. Hee hee, you '01 owners with your 60K timing belts!

Still zooming after all these miles,

Meade

fowler3 · March 2005

Where the heck have you been? We haven't heard from you since the second MAPP. I can see that you have been zooming all that time.

My '01 is still getting through the 21,000 digits to turn over 22. Tires about shot and it needs an oil/filter change. So in about the same timeframe I have been driving 21k you have piled up 67. Gee, it must be a long way to civilization from Upper Michigan?

The reason I have so little mileage, everywhere I shop is very close by, not more than 2 miles in any direction. It's like living in a village. Two supermarkets, gas station, drug store, and tire store within walking distance, yet I live in the country. There are 15 restaurants within 1.75 miles and Best Buy, Circuit City, Cosco, Sam's, W-M, Home Depot, etc., all together. Convenience!

bottger: I had a 1994 Civic and the current '01 Protegé so I can only compare the two. There are a lot of differences between them, starting with more room in the Protegé's cabin and trunk. The Pro's cabin is spacious, reminds me of the '97 Accord. Big easy-to-get-into trunk. Comfortable seats front and back. And the Protegé has more power with the 2.0L engine, even with an A/T. I knew right away when I bought it -- NEVER buy another 1.5L or 1.8L engine. (posted here by mistake, will take it to the other forum.)

Welcome back yooper53!

fowler3

edmund2460 · March 2005

My 33K 01 ES is doing great with no problems. No squeaks or creaks either. My Dunlops still have around 5/32. Has anyone in here with Dunlops switched to something else that they found better. From studying tirerack reviews most owners found the D's great in dry and problems in wet weather. I agree but I can slow down in rain. I like the grip they have so I am thinking of sticking to Dunlops.

hobbs03 · March 2005

My 01 LX 2.0 needs new tires. Should I go with the Potenzas (195 55 15) again or try a new brand.

Thanks for any input

autonomous · March 2005

Hi,
If you're considering upgrading to 16 inch tires and rims you may want to check the Protege5 discussion, under Mazda Protege5, and go to message 7183 for a list of tire options.

lawman1967 · March 2005

try the Falken Ziex 512. A number of people here have or had them and they are generally well-liked and inexpensive.

While your at it, why not go from the 195/55/15 to a 205/50/15? Tires are actually cheaper (common size vs. unusual) and you get more rubber on the road.

I am on my second set of Ziex 512s in 205/50 on my 03 DX and absolutely love them. Can't say how long they last, as at 20,000 miles (still ample tread left) on my first set I took the car to the Streets of Willow Springs and absolutely shredded all four. The car was mostly sideways for about 130 track miles at speeds up to 100MPH, but never less than 60.

On the track the car was VERY easy to control and while they were pretty much ruined, the tires did a great job under much tougher conditions than they were designed for.

Come to think of it, the Protege did much better than a cheap car had any right to do.

hobbs03 · March 2005

Thanks for the reply. Unfortunately, upgrading rims is not in my budget (although neither is the $127 per tire that Costco wants for the Potenzas). So with that in mind, any additional suggestions?

Thanks again.

autonomous · March 2005

Since I'm planning to replace my summer tires at the end of 2005 or early next year I thought I would share my current choices. The list is based on price and performance.

Pirelli : pricey, performance-oriented, summer only
Dunlop 5000M (my current tire): pricey, great performance, summer only
Toyo Proxes TPT : supposedly a great tire with an amazing warranty of 100K KM/60K miles
Kumho Ecsta 711 or 712: value and performance tires
BF Goodrich Radial T/A : inexpensive, lower performance rating (S rated); my winter tires are BF and have been very reliable

When comparing prices I use the "final" price which includes balancing and other fees.

hobbs03 · March 2005

What a coincidence...I just ordered the BF Goodrich's from Costco last night ($85 per tire). As with all Costco tire prices, it includes the installation, lifetime balancing, rotation and flat repair.

I had to order them because the 195 55 15 size is apparently uncommon. They said it'd take 3-5 business days to get here.

I didn't mind the Potenzas. I've gotten 40,200 miles out them and could have gotten more had I been disciplined about rotating them every 5k miles. But the $126 per tire was a bit too much.

Thanks again for the input.

meinrad · March 2005

I'm still absolutely amazed anytime I see someone getting more than 25k out of the Poortenza's. Color me stunned, flaborghasted, floored, etc.

bluem6i · March 2005

"What a coincidence...I just ordered the BF Goodrich's from Costco last night ($85 per tire). As with all Costco tire prices, it includes the installation, lifetime balancing, rotation and flat repair.

I had to order them because the 195 55 15 size is apparently uncommon. They said it'd take 3-5 business days to get here."

You won't be disappointed. I put a set of BFG Touring T/A's (VR205/55/15) on my 2002 LX back in August. The O/E Potenza's were horrible in the rain and these BFG's are far superior. I got mine for about the same price at BJ's Wholesale Club. I didn't know about ordering the 195/55/15's until after the 205's were already on the car.

hobbs03 · March 2005

Your comment about being horrible in the rain couldn't be any truer. Rain traction was never a factor for me living in Pasadena CA, but the last few months have been the true test for them. Even driving at significantly slower speeds did not alleviate the consistant hydroplaning and drifting on the freeways.

Glad to hear the BFGs work well.

blueguydotcom · March 2005

You guys heard anything about the ease or difficulty of selling Pro's?

My car:
03 Protege ES, dark green, manual, 26k miles, 6 cd changer, moonroof, black interior.

Used it for a commuter car on a long open drive of 90 miles a day. New job is only 10 miles from home so I'm gonna just use my weekend car.

autonomous · March 2005

"I just ordered the BF Goodrich's from Costco last night ($85 per tire) ... includes the installation, lifetime balancing, rotation and flat repair."

"You won't be disappointed. I put a set of BFG Touring T/A's (VR205/55/15) on my 2002 LX back in August ... I got mine for about the same price at BJ's Wholesale Club."

Fabulous! Keep us informed on your experience with them.

lawman1967 · March 2005

You do not need to replace your rims to go from a 195/55/15 to a 205/50/15. I've had the Falkens on the stock Mazda steel wheels (no allowys for the DX) and they fit perfectly, adding a bit more attitude to the car's look, and wihtout any ill effects.

civiletti · March 2005

And I kept the stock rims with 205/55-15 Bridgestone SO-3's, which are much better tires than the RE-92's. They are a bit noisy though, so I will probably try something else next time.

tlyon · March 2005

I had some problems with my '95 Protege 1.5. It was missing and hesitating upon acceleration. My usual mechanic diagnosed a bad coil and replaced the distributor/coil with a non-OEM rebuilt unit. Problem came back, and I took it to another shop (both non dealers). The second shop said they had had persistent problems with non-OEM rebuilts and said they only install rebuilt OEM Mazda distributors. Is there anything to what he is saying or are they just trying to get more of my hard-earned dollars?

mazdafun · March 2005

Right on the nose as I parked at work too.

Time to get in for that service.....

...and yes, I do live in a state where the recommended change interval for the timing belt is at 60k miles. This will be one big service as I'm also flushing out the coolant and AT fluid and having the accessory belts changed since they'll have to remove them to access the timing belt.

One question I have: since they'll be able to access the water pump, should I have this part changed too? I didn't change the water pump on my '89 323LX, and it was still running fine at 142k miles.

carguy58 · March 2005

I"f I'm not mistaken the '01 was the last pre-Furd models available."

I think the last Protege ran up till the 03 model year.

"So there are no Mazdas in my future. i.e. look at the Tribute/Escape forum."

A family member of mine has an 03 Escape and its been problem free. Consumer Reports even ranks the Tribute/Escape average to above average reliability from 02-04 MY's.

Personally, I wouldn't buy a Mazda 3, there is not enough room for me in the hatch model anyway. The roofline is too close too my head. I would buy a Mazda 6 because I could actually fit in it comfortably.

hobbs03 · March 2005

I'm puzzled about people with 01's stating that the timing belt needs to be replaced at 60,000. The owners manual says 105,000. It is ridiculous that the manual says the belt should be "inspected" at 60,000. The reason this is such an expensive job is that getting to the belt is such a pain, so why you would let a mechanic tear down your engine to "inspect" your belt is silly.

My 01 LS 2.0 is running great. Just got new tires (BF Goodrich TAs at Costco, 40,152 miles on the old Potenzas), and they're great. Much cheaper than getting Potenzas again ($86 v. $126)

fowler3 · March 2005

I saw a Mazda3i today, a green one with a big driver behind the wheel wearing a bright red jacket, It looked like a stuffed olive on wheels.

fowler3

mazdafun · March 2005

Replacement interval mentioned in your manual depends on what state you live in. In most states, it's 60k miles, in a few states, it's 105k miles.

Go figure.

I'd get it changed anyway. Everything wears and stretches.

moparbad · March 2005

22,000 miles and I'm happy with my Pro LX. Still not a single defect or failure of any part requiring warranty service.

The tires and wheels do however, cause me to rant and curse. Potenza tires are poor in wet weather and even worse in snow. The low profile size in 15" is difficult to find.
Twice now tire repairs were required (screw in the tire and metal fastener from chain link fence) and wheel machine damaged the wheels both times. I did not have the luxury of having the repairs completed at a trusted wheel shop. Oh, how I dislike low profile sidewalls.

Some time soon, BF Goodrich Traction T/A V tires and I'll either powdercoat the current wheels or buy new.

Overall, the vehicle is excellent.

mdaffron · March 2005

Get out and DRIVE your cars, dangit!!!

My '00 ES is zooming along happily with 90,400 miles on the odo.

Meade

P.S. Bridgestone "Poortenzas" are awful; they were the cause of the hydroplaning accident that totaled my '92 Protege LX at only 28,000 miles. My '00 ES came with them, much to my chagrin, and I promptly ditched them. My current tires are plus-zero sized BFGoodrich Touring T/A VR4s (BFG has since replaced that tire with the Traction T/A tire) with more than 40,000 miles on them. Starting to get thin now, but still way better than the Potenzas ever were. My wife's Protege5 has a set of Traction T/A VR4s on it that are doing really well at about 10,000 miles. Her OEM Dunlop SP Sport 5000s only lasted about 16,000 miles, and the awful Falken Ziex's we replaced them with lasted barely 15,000 miles -- one actually blew out on her on I-95 and almost killed her! Guys and gals, there's a reason the Falkens are cheap -- they ARE!!! You get what you pay for, friends!

PF_Flyer · March 2005

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meinrad · March 2005

I'm just about hitting 45k. So I'm doing a little less 15k per year. But consider I drive 2 miles to work, the rest is all driving for the fun of it.

I second the Traction T/A's. Mine now have about 7k on them and they are barely showing wear. So much better than Poortenza's and the Falkens. And the handling isn't bad either. Not quite the super grip of the bald Bridgstones or the rain grip of the brand new Falkens, but still very nice.

lawman1967 · March 2005

My first set looked brand-new at 15,000 miles, however I took the car out on the track and thoroughly thrashed all four (the car spend most of the 130 track miles sideways).

I remain rather impresseed with both wet and dry handling on the Falkens, and am currently running my second set with about 7500 miles on them.

hobbs03 · March 2005

I couldn't agree more about the BFG Tractions T/As. I just got a set of these Costco for $85/tire. The Poortenzas were $126 each! The TA's are solid performers in the sun and rain and, in my opinion, for the money, can't be beat

mdaffron · March 2005

Well, my car will be five years old in two months, and a little math reveals I'm not doing much more than you -- about 18K a year.

And considering that my daily commute is about 38 miles, Zoomster and I hardly ever get any fun time -- all work and no play.

I must admit I do enjoy those infrequent road trips up to Pennsylvania and Delaware.

Meade

mazdafun · March 2005

My LX is going in for the big 60k service next week. With the stuff I did myself (oil & filter, air filter, plugs), I'll save $100. The dealer quotes around $650 for the 60k, for which they do the oil, air filter (usual stuff), plugs, tire rotation & balance, timing belt, AT fluid flush and cooling system service (flush, refill and leak check).

Another nearby dealer charges about $500, but this doesn't include the timing belt change (another $250), tire balancing, or the AT and coolant fluid changes, so I thought the first dealer offered the better deal. Point of fact, they also got the work replacing my front struts because they charged $100 less for the same job.

Anyway, it's amazing what a difference fresh oil (especially synthetic) and a new oil filter can make. The engine just feels and sounds like it spins up faster and more freely, especially during cold starts (it's still just above freezing around here).

The Falkens are just over 4000 miles. Their wet grip has improved, if hydroplaning resistance hasn't. Dry grip has also improved. I noticed a bit of wear on the outsides of the front tire treads, but I have been taking turns rather fast of late, so I'm not worried, especially since they're now on the rears, and those wheels are cambered to put more load on the insides of the treads.

I still think it's a toss-up between the Dunlop SP Sport A2s and the Falken Ziex ZE-512s on my car. The Dunlops had better hydroplaning resistance and slightly better wet grip. I got over 34k miles on the Dunlops; could've gotten another 3-4k if I wanted to push the issue, but winter was coming and I didn't want to try to make it with the amount of tread remaining. I must've gotten tires from a better batch than the rest of you.

mdaffron · March 2005

Well, if you got that kind of performance and longevity from the Dumflops and Foulkens, then just imagine what kind of experience you'll have with your next set of tires ... a set of BFGoodrich Traction T/As. They may be the last set of tires you put on your car.

(Although that can be taken several ways ... the Poortenzas that came OEM on my 1992 Protege were the first and LAST set of tires on the car, if you know what I mean ... LOL!)

Meade

gee35coupe · March 2005

Continentals on my car. They won't wear out. I thought 215/45/17's wouldn't last much more than 25K. I'm pushing 30K on these with plenty of tread left.

mazdafun · April 2005

I will try out the BF Goodrich Traction T/As as my next set. I like to try out different things.

And I never really liked Continentals. They make good touring/passenger tires, but I never thought they made good sporty tires. Of course, this was on an '86 Taurus and an early-80's Olds Firenza.

mdaffron · April 2005

It is with a somewhat heavy heart that I report that my financing has been approved for a Velocity Red 2005 Mazda3s wagon. Five-speed, of course.

Later today, I will take one last zoom into the sunset with Zoomster, heading off into the feeble final moments of daylight toward Whitten Mazda. There we will share a long embrace, made even more heart-wrenching by the fact that Zoomster has faithfully delivered five years and more than 91,000 miles of almost 100-percent trouble-free service -- despite my frequent redline-crashing, accelerator-slamming highway driving, off-ramp skid-pad tests, and general enjoyment of tossing this little car around. He's taken all this abuse in stride and come back asking for more.

And now I'm going to turn my (choke) back on him (whimper).

Stand by. I need to find a Kleenex.

--

OK, I'm back. So Zoomster is history. I will, of course, visit here from time to time (you guys are much more fun than the young first-time Mazda owners over on the 3 discussions, even if you hardly ever post anymore). But alas, it is time to move on. And after all the fun I've had on Edmunds over the past five years, I must admit it all started when I came here to the Town Hall and met all of you. Who ever thought a little green econobox could foster lifelong friendships.

Zoomster, it's been real, and it's been fun. Heck ol' buddy, it's even been real fun.

Now, everybody say hello to Kazoom, the SIXTH Mazda in the Daffron family!

Meade

meinrad · April 2005

And here I thought you were buying a Vibe this time!

:P

mdaffron · April 2005

I see you've succumbed to Edmunds' cutesy-wootsy icon usage!!!

Meade

pat · April 2005

Actually, you can't avoid the "cutesy-wootsy" icon usage if you want to use any of the standard keystrokes to indicate smile, sad, etc. I'll say no more...

)

Weren't you considering something else, was it the Mazda5? Tell us how you came to this decision.

Congrats Meade - enjoy it! And of course you need to stick around here and you are also welcome in the 3 sedan discussion (as well as any other discussion you find of interest, of course!!).

Have fun.

Mazda Protegé

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