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Comments
$$ to support the trip
http://www.speedvisionwc.com/2001/tvschedule.html
of course this isn't broadcast live.. so the results for the race are probably available at their website.. but please don't post the results! thanks!
ciao
As for the P5's front end, the front bumper does look huge compared to the entire car. I know I like the taillamps alot. I would love to be able to somehow retrofit the P5 taillamps to my ES sedan. Now that would be wild!
Fowler: I have taken a 100-mile trip in my Protege with 3 passengers up and down mountains, and no one complained once. Of course, that was only about an hour. We did rent a Chevy Tracker SUV for a 5-hour drive to the Poconos a couple weeks back, and about halfway through the trip one of my friends (same ones that went on the 100-mile one with me) was like, "God, I wish we would have brought the Protege instead of THIS!". I guess that speaks for itself, considering the friend is 6'3 and rode in the back of my Protege (with a sunroof too) without touching the headliner and without any cramping.
My sister has a 96 Protege LX 1.5L automatic, and she has major problems with the valves. This car has about 75,000 miles and has already had the upper end done once. Parts on this car are not cheap. It looks like she needs more cams AGAIN. The 1.5L is very underpowered, especially with the automatic transmission. The engines don't seem very durable.
Both of my sisters have Protege's. The other sister has a 95 ES with the 1.8L engine and 5 speed with ABS. This one is very powerful, but has also had upper valvetrain problems in the past. Has anyone else had this kind of trouble? The 02 sensors are very expensive too. on the ES, the 2 sensors cost over 400 dollars each to replace. On the 1.5 they cost nearly 300 dollars each.
Plus both engines have terrible exhaust manifolds. Both are cracked and make them sound like trucks. Did they get lemons, or did anyone else have some of the same problems? Fit and finish on both cars are great, and everything else is fine. But the labor to fix these cars is ridiculous...nearly 1 thousand for each car.
I am just checking to see if anyone else had this problem with the upper part of either engine. Maybe we will fix them, or maybe we will get rid of them. I started to get a new Protege, but seeing how these engines held up, I bought a new Sentra SE 2.0L instead. I still like my Protege's but they are beginning to scare me.
Thanks for listening,
GSEREP1
I have taken numerous trips since I bought mine a year and a half ago (in fact, I have a 1.5 mile commute, so most of the almost 10K miles I've put on it are highway). Most trips in the mountains in UT, CO, WY, ID and in the Nevada desert! With anything from 0 to 3 passengers. Comfortable, and absolutely reliable!
It sounds like your sisters got lemons, or missed out on reguylar maintenance - which is an invitation for expensive repairs in any vehicle, however good!
Hope you can have them repaired and they serve your purpose, but to each his or her own! I love my 95 Protege, and I do drive it pretty hard too!
Sure, Proteges depreciate faster than Civics or Corollas. But not by much! Since we all love spouting off emotionally on these topics before we check the FACTS, I did a little research for all of us. It may help those who are insecure about their purchase to CALM DOWN just a little.
Here goes. (All of the following is from the NADA and Edmunds Websites this morning. Prices are based on Protege ES vs. Civic EX, both 5-speed manuals with air, alloy wheels and CD players. On the used models I plugged in the same mileage for both. Note: The top-of-the-line Protege in 1992 was the LX, but it had all of the features of the Civic EX of that year.)
New 2001 Prices (MSRP):
Civic EX: $17,350
Protege ES: $16,015
Difference: Civic costs $1,335 more than Protege
Used 2000 Prices (Trade-in/Avg. Retail):
2000 1992
Civic EX: $13,250/$15,450 $3,900/$5,350
Protege ES: $11,375/$13,250 $2,000/$3,250
Difference: $1,875/$2,200 $1,900/$2,100
(in Civic's favor)
So, if we take into account that we paid $1,335 LESS for our Proteges, the Civic retains only about $565 in trade-in value or $765 average retail after 8 years. I don't think that's such a big difference in depreciation, especially when you consider that the Protege HAS A BETTER WARRANTY (3/50 as opposed to 3/36), a larger engine, a larger interior, etc., etc.
Let's get our facts straight before we slam our own cars, OK? I, for one, love my Protege and the two I had before it! (And by the way, my '92 LX 5-speed went 83,000 miles before I traded it in and I never had any clutch problems, and I was still on my original brakes too!)
ZOOM ZOOM ZOOM!
Meade
Meade
One or even a few people's experience, until it is correlated between hundreds or thousands of other experiences is anecdotal evidence (and fairly weak), not statistical evidence.
When we say "they don't build them like they used to" based on a single car, we are making an extremely wide inference based on very little evidence.
It would be a similar case, if we knew someone who died in a car accident and said "its getting so its not safe to drive anymore". People die in car accidents and will continue to do so, but less die per mile travelled EVERY year (according to the NHTSA). When we look at the whole of the evidence we realize that the highways are safer than they used to be.
Love my Protege, but that noisy fifth gear is the one thing that probably I am the least thrilled with.
In response to your very good questions, I will say that the belt was indeed changed on time. I changed it at 60,000 miles, only to find out that it is supposed to be done at 105,000 miles for California engines. Why they should be different, I don't have a clue. I know that these are ZERO clearance engines, and if a timing belt breaks, certain valves will be bent when they kiss a piston. Not a good thing to happen, for sure.
Both engines were very well maintained, and all services were done on time. The engines were both serviced with synthetic oils, and K&N air filters to keep things clean. I have seen so many of the 95 and 96 year cars with cracked exhaust manifolds. There seems to be a defect of some type. I contacted Mazda, and they said that no one has reported any cracked manifolds, and the replacement is about $250.00. I definitely don't want to buy a replacement manifold if it is the same as the first one, and has not been improved upon. Has anyone else experienced a cracked exhaust manifold on their cars? I am trying to establish some sort of pattern.
Any help that anyone can give would be greatly appreciated. I really like both of these cars, and I feel really bad for one of my sisters because I SOLD this car to her when I worked at a local Mazda dealership. I really believed in these cars when I worked there. They really do have much more interior space for passengers and are really comfortable. Now that they are out of warranty, we don't want to spend good money after bad trying to keep these cars running if they are not worth it.
Thanks again,
GSEREP1
It's a compromise of performance versus economy. But I knew that when I bought my Pro (instead of a Civic, which was the closest competition at the time...Corolla, Sentra, Impreza were, and still are, much too cramped for me).
Could I have gotten a larger car with similar or better performance and economy? Yeah, but they are too clumsy to maneuver in parking lots (curb-to-curb turning circles of 34 feet are about as big as I want to go) and aren't nearly as nimble in S-curves. You'll notice most vehicles with larger turning circles don't post this specification, or don't use a "curb-to-curb" number, which is the only realistic figure to use (kind of like how CRT monitor mfrs list the glass size in big type and actual usable area in small type).
I can just get to the oil filter from the top on my 1.6L engine. Got a pair of steel ramps for the next time so I can see if it's easier to do from underneath. At least it'll make it easier to shove my catch basin underneath the drain outlet.
Even that does not tell the whole story. For example: $1335 invested at 5% interest for 8 years becomes $2000. Thats what I did. I invested the differnce in a FDIC insured 5 year CD at 5.5%. One could also use the $1335 to pay of credit card debt at 9-22% and then its worth even more. $1335 used to make 1-2 house payments is worth even more over 20-30 years. So the $765 basically shrinks to nothing.
The moral: Good residual values are not a good reason to buy or not buy a car IF the car costs less (5-10%) to begin with AND you are careful with your money.
I agree. Makes me bloody nervous. Initially I'll do a few oil changes, warranty required checks at dealer I got it from. I'm not sure how many folks, esp. the younger folks are aware of this but it always pays to put all car repairs, and servicing on a credit card. If you have any hassles w/ the work or parts it gives you legal recourse to with hold payment 'til the work issue is resolved. You pay cash, you have Jack! Didn't mean to wax geezerly good folks.. Dennis MI
BTW, thanks for the technical term. The name escaped me at the time.
9050 mi. and still zoomin'
fowler3
My '01 ES is holding up okay: I still have to go back to the dealer to have the morning exhaust buzz fixed and now the engine begins to "tick" under moderate acceleration. Otherwise the ES is solid at 6,000 miles -- no rattles/squeeks -- and/or breakdowns. Power and braking are very good. A/C is fair at idle but cools very well when the engine is at cruising RPMs. I have noticed one "small" glaring cheapout in the new ES: the black carpeting is very thin and appears bald in a couple places -- especially under drivers mat. Anyone else notice it? Maybe I'll bring it to the dealer's attention next week.
Maltb: Yep, cardboard is great for working under the car!! The tiny Mazda oil filter is a "pain!" to remove... Dealers always install it too tightly.
MARTIN
Question: The First Drive review online here mentions the Kenwood MP3 stereo has being hissy and heavy bass. Understanding that the younger driver likes to boom boom (rather than zoom zoom!) does the unit come with EQ? Are there adjustments on the subwoofer? Just curious.
It's funny, but the car seems most fun to me with the windows down at 45-55 mph. One of the reasons being that the sound system is fantastic at drowning the wind noise out. Maybe thats what it was designed for?
As far as being older than the demographic, I understand that it is supposed to be 19-25, but I'm 32 (and have chatted online with some MP3 owners who I believe are older). Maybe Mazda was shooting for the wrong demo?
There are quite a few MP3 owners over at madzamp3.com's forum. You might try there for a better answer to your stereo question.
fowler3
Good Luck,
Larry
What gets me is that I bought a second Protege (I had a 1999 DX model) because the first was so reliable. This one seems to be a little troublesome (alignment issues, steering wheel was installed crooked but fixed under TSB, and brake rotors warped). I am starting to think I could have got my second choice, the Jetta, and had the same or less problems with it. I still do like the car, but am just a little disappointed with it, especially since I only have 9800 miles.
Dennis, when you disconnect the battery to get the CD out, you will have to reset the clock and all radio stations. But try it! Better than having the dealer's service people take the whole thing apart.
fowler3
They appraised the car for trade-in. Needless to say, I still have $4,100 negative equity even though the loan is half-way paid off. Unfortunately, my car can only retail (realistically, not Kelley Blue Book) for about $8,500, so you can imagine trade-in value. I figure I will be at the 3.5 year mark into the loan before I catch up with depreciation. But this is about right since Mazda predicts 39-42mos before a loan catches up with depreciation on a Protege ES.
Anyways, they wanted $3,500 down since most finance companies will only finance 120% of the vehicle (tax, title, and license here in California is about 10%). The car I was looking at was a black 2001 Protege ES 2.0 5-spd with the power moonroof, 6-disc changer, perimeter alarm, painted mirrors, wheel locks, and carpeted floor mats. It was a nice looking car, but after taking an extended test drive, I determined it was not worth all that extra money since it really wasn't much of an up-grade (more on that later).
So I was seriously looking at leasing a 2001 626 ES-V6 5-spd. That was definitely worth paying extra money for with it's V6, leather, wood, Bose sound system, smooth ride, and much quieter interior. Plus, the $2,500 rebate eats up a lot of the negative equity on my car. However, I decided the keep my car until I am nearly caught up the depreciation, and then it's bye-bye Protege. My serious hold-up right now is that Mazda will be doing a product blitz in the next three years with an all-new Protege, all-new 626 replacement, all-new Miata, all-new RX-8, and an all-new replacement for the Millenia.
Also, I took the Pro on a road-trip this past weekend. First, I have to say that I found the Pro to be very fun and comfortable for the trip. Handled great and had lots of passing power.
Now onto my problem: I was intending to drive the entire trip, but the g/f said she was bored so I let her drive. 30 minutes later, I've got a nice paint chip out of the middle of my hood!!! Where the chip is, there is now way a hood deflector of bra would have helped out at all. Anywho, does anybody have any advice in regards to fixing the chip? Is it best just to put some touch-up paint on? Any advice on using touch-up paint? The chip is fairly small...maybe only a few millimeters across, but it is fairly noticeable. Any advice is appreciated.
Protege_fan
Here's what's better on the 2001 compared to the 1999:
- Quieter (not by much, but it is a very slight-bit quieter)
- Higher gearing (about 500rpm less at 80mph)
- Nicer interior
- Better brake feel
Here's what I like about the 1999 compared to the 2001:
- Quicker throttle response
- Quicker handling response
- Better sound system (2001 sounds flat no matter how adjusted)
Basically, the 2001 went through some slight refinement. However, the 1999 fits the zoom-zoom motto much better than the 2001. The 1999 just feels quicker and more nimble. The 2001 has much lighter controls (throttle, clutch, brake), but it always feels like their is a lag time between driver input and the car's reaction.
In my opinion, the 1.8L has more of a sporty growl, where the 2.0L seems to have more of a groan. I think the 2001 has grown a bit too heavy on the scales. The unibody's extra reinforcement, the extra sound insulation, the larger wheels, the larger brakes, the standard fog lamps, and the standard spoiler all add up and it just sounds and feels like the engine, although larger, is struggling with the weight.
BTW, thanks for your extremely quick response on Friday. Although I ended up not needing it, I certainly appreciate your help!! Thanks again!!
And if you messed up the touch-up and want to start over, some nail polish remover will easily wipe it off.
Same thing happened to my 01 ES. Just pop the radio/player fuse then re-insert it and the disk should eject. Dealer did this for me without embarrassment. It happened with 2 hrs left on a (boring) road trip. Good luck.
TIA.