Mazda Protegé

fowler3 · August 2001

Been off a while doing some graphics work for a publisher of kids' books. It had a deadline for August 20, I finished the artwork by August 14 and did the corrections by the 19th. Many late hours on the Mac.

Looks like you all have been very talkative.

I haven't owned an American car since 1973. Bought an 1974 Audi Fox 5-speed and never went back to big iron. That was during the Oil Imbargo days.

The problem with American cars was, you spent the first 60 days going back to the dealer getting things fixed, lost time from work, mad bosses. From 1974 to today I have never had that problem again with German and Japanese cars. With those the first 60 days is spent enjoying the car(s).

Keep the posts coming! I hate having to scroll down the Sedans list to find you.

fowler3

mdaffron · August 2001

Just type "Protege" in the board search box!

Meade

fowler3 · August 2001

No, I'm not thinking about trading, but I did read a review on the Audi A4, yesterday, and was surprised to see the dimensions are almost exactly the same as our Protegés, give or take an inch here and there. And the A4 is a $30K car. The body/frame is aluminum and yet it weighs over 3500 pounds.

I remember seeing the first aluminum Audi at the International Automobile Show, in Frankfurt, Germany in 1993. It was an A8 and they didn't paint it, it looked like a chrome-plated car. Talk about reflections and glare, that car was something else. People couldn't take their eyes off of it. I have a picture of it, wish I could post it some place.

That's one auto show you should see. It's every September. Huge, like going to Disney World, all cars and trucks and even a big building displaying auto parts and accessories.

The best part was the bratwurst and beer sold by venders around the show grounds.

Great for tired feet.

fowler3

magilla · August 2001

Saw my first MP3 up close the other night when I was testing the P5. If you own one, don't take offense this is only MHO. But honestly, to me it looks like a freak show, something out of The Fast and the Furious. It looks like some youngster hopped up a Civic - isn't that called something that we eat that is white, long-grain, or wild? I can guarantee that the car thieves in my metro area would target this thing within the first 6 months. It's kind of like a sporty project that went just a little too far. The seats are very functional, but what's with the ugly silver inserts? What's that? We had a couple pieces of ugly silver leather lying around didn't know what to do with them. The Nardi wheel is beautiful and very comfy. The wing is a little big, the tires too low profile for the real streets, and a $2,500 mark up? They must be kidding!!! How about an ES with some real performance? That would be the way to go. $2,500. HA! To me, this is like driving a Porsche 912 and having people think it's a 911. Oh well, to each his own...

jstandefer · August 2001

No. I don't think that would be such a great idea. There are only 1,500 available and we'll get maybe 10 MP3 owners on this site (and that's be drastically liberal, ugh, I hate ever being liberal!). It's a Protege ES with modifications. Does that mean we would have to start a separate board for anyone that has modified their Protege?

All performance parts and will fit the Protege ES 1.8L and 2.0L. Any extra modifications an owner makes to an MP3 can easily be made to an ES, and vice-versa. I might see the need for a separate board when the turbocharged MP3's hit the market next year. But until then, the MP3 is really no quicker than the '99 ES which is the lightest of the third generation Protege's. And, I still feel the 1.8L is much more willing to rev than the 2.0L.

jstandefer · August 2001

No hard feelings at all. What really set me off was another poster who's had their Protege a whole month or something telling me to get lost to another board. I've helped dozens of people on Edmunds Town Hall buy Mazda's and other vehicles, and I have even directly sold a few to some people in Town Hall. I just had to let off some steam.

I do find it funny that I have never brought this up before. Apparently, Vocus and I are not the only ones that have screamed I will never buy a Mazda again... Will I ever buy a Mazda again? Of course. I couldn't imagine buying anything else. Of course, next time it will be a Miata, new RX-8, or new RX-7. But, the rapidly upcoming replacement for the 626 with it's 210-215hp V6 is looking mighty interesting...

mdaffron · August 2001

If it does, I'm sorry but count me out. I'm strong in my convictions about Ford crap. If and when the next-generation Protege comes out, I'm gonna have a very sad time saying goodbye if it has a Ford engine in it. It may just make me hang onto this one as long as I possibly can. I'm too big a guy for a Miata and my wallet's not going to be big enough for an RX-8. I dunno -- I've read that Mazda's going to be producing some of Ford's new engines in its Japanese facilities in the future ... in fact one of the auto industry magazines had an article a few months back about the 2003 MY Focus and Protege sharing the same platform, but with a new Ford-and-Mazda partner engine -- but BUILT BY MAZDA. (I wish I had saved the link -- it's on this topic about four months back.) If that's the case, I'll wait at least a year to gauge initial reliability and then jump right back into a 2004 or 2005 Protege5. Unless my 2000 ES is still zoom-zooming happily with more than 100,000 miles on it -- then I'll drive the little puppy till his doors fall off!

Meade

jstandefer · August 2001

The new 626 replacement will have the Ford 3.0L Duratec DOHC V6 but with Mazda's Sequential Valve Timing (SVT) on it. It is the same engine used in the Tribute and 2002 MPV minus the SVT. It is also used in the Jaguar S-Type and Taurus/Sable. It has proven to be an excellent engine.

The new engines for the Focus and Protege are a group of new engine designs. One is a 2.0L (I believe it is the Duratec HE (High Efficiency)) and the other is going to be a 2.3L which is already seeing use in the 2001.5 Ranger/B-Series trucks as well as the 2002 Ford Mondeo in Europe. This 2.3L has been codeveloped by Ford and Mazda (with Mazda taking the engineering lead, basically while Ford stood by holding the wallet) and will be built in the United States, Japan, Europe, and South America for use in Ford and Mazda vehicles worldwide. The 2004 Focus and Protege will move to a new platform, probably a derivative of the outstanding Mondeo platform on which the new Jaguar X-Type sits.

mdaffron · August 2001

How do you know so much?

Meade

maltb · August 2001

He reads...although I don't know about the Protege/Focus on the Mondeo platform. Speculation is that the 626 replacement will be on that platform but nothing is concrete.

mdaffron · August 2001

I had an artist's drawing and description of the Protege5 in my dealership's Sales Manager's hand a year ago and he said he'd never seen it and doubted it would ever make it over here. I love going in there now. All I have to do is smile at him and he says, "Aw, shaddup!"

Meade

scooti · August 2001

We had Michelin X-One's on our 97 Protege ES with 14 inch wheels. They were great in the rain and super quiet, great tread life. Before selling the car to my nephew, we put 35,000 mi. on the Michelins and they still had a lot of tread left on them. We live in NE Pa. and the Michelins were ok but not great in snow. Like I said though, they were excellent in the rain. Paid $90 per tire for them almost 4 years ago.

Bill

tomciviletti · August 2001

Where in NE PA? I lived between Wilkes-Barre and Scranton before moving west.

jstandefer · August 2001

If I listed all of the websites I frequent, I would easily exceed the maximum character limit on this board. Then I would have to do a Larry style multipart post (Hi Larry!).

The new Protege and Focus will either sit on a modified Mondeo platform or a totally new platform developed for Ford global compacts. Since the 626 is growing slightly in interior room, I'm sure the Focus and Protege will grow in interior room as well. Then, Mazda will introduce a new subcompact hatchback probably based on the Mazda 121 platform. This new vehicle will be powered from engines ranging from 1.3L to 1.6L with direct injection and S-VT (Sequential Valve Timing).

I forgot to mention in my last post that the new 2.3L will also see duty in the Tribute (replacing the Zetec 2.0) and as the base engine in the new 626 (replacing the 2.0L). It seems Mazda is really pushing their MX Sport Tourer concept and many analysts speculate it will probably see production in a form similar to the concept. It is a technology tour-de-force with Mazda's take on hybrid technology. Mazda's hybrid system uses a small direct injection S-VT engine along with an electric motor. The gasoline engine powers the front wheels during freeway driving, while the electric motor powers the rear wheels during city cruising. There is a "Zoom Zoom" button that will activate the electric motor for extra passing power on the freeway. Also, the vehicle has full all-wheel drive capability which automatically activates when traction has been lost at the drive wheels. It also features Mazda's Toroidal CVT (Continuously Variable Transmission) which allows the engine to stay at a certain rpm (for best efficiency or for best performance) while the transmission continuously changes the gearing ratio to change speed.

mazdafun · August 2001

Yeah scooti, I agree about the X-Ones in the snow. They're OK. The sipes that are so great at wicking away water just pack up with snow. Still, they're much better than the Firestone FR680s.

I'll probably get alloys with my next set of tires so I can put snow tires on my steel wheels if the all-seasons don't work out. I also can use the chains (cables with little sleeves really) I got for driving to Tahoe back when I lived in California.

The other tires I'm looking at rate comparably in snow traction (at least according to the readers that post their opinions on Tire Rack's site), but cost significantly less (mid 40s or 50s v. high 70s and up) and have been around at least as long. The X-Ones are rated as being quieter though. The 175/75R13s on my '89 323 are probably the best tires I've had on it, but I want to try something different and somewhat sportier on my Pro.

proteus2 · August 2001

<<No. I don't think that would be such a great idea. There are only 1,500 available and we'll get maybe 10 MP3 owners on this site (and that's be drastically liberal, ugh, I hate ever being liberal!). It's a Protege ES with modifications. Does that mean we would have to start a separate board for anyone that has modified their Protege?>>

Well I would hope the power of the Edmund's name would get more than 10 people, especially since anyone buying one will search for something on the web. But to answer your second question, yes, why not have people who have modified their Proteges join in and have a board of performance minded people, as opposed to the general information on the other boards? I was a member of an Alfa Romeo on line e-mail group, and it was very enjoyable. You get some very knowledgeable people with similar interests.

We'll try this again later, I guess.

proteus2 · August 2001

The seats are very functional, but what's with the ugly silver inserts? What's that? The Nardi wheel is beautiful and very comfy. The wing is a little big, the tires too low profile for the real streets, and a $2,500 mark up? They must be kidding!!! How about an ES with some real performance? That would be the way to go. >>

First, I think the car looks great, and the wing, front valence and other tweaks make the car look very good. The seats are also very comfortable, a huge plus for a car in this price range. The tires are not too low, unless you live in Manhattan. The car is also an outstanding value! Figure what it would cost to set up an ES this way, including the sound system, and you'll see what I mean. The car handles like a son of a b*tch, and having owned nothing but sports cars- real ones- for over 20 years, I am damned impressed. The MP3 is one of the truly great values out there, and frankly, I don't believe Mazda made a profit on a single one of them.

protege_fan · August 2001

So you're saying that just because some people bought their cars last year, that they are not the same type of people who would want an MP3? I know that I for one would have loved to have bought one. However it was a)not affordable to me, and b)not out at the time.
The MP3 is nothing more than a factory tuned Protege sedan! To start a seperate board would be pointless. This board is labelled "Mazda
Protege (SEDANS Board)."
MP3=Sedan. No matter how you "mod" it, it is still a Pro Sedan.
I for one love reading about mods that I could do to my Pro. However, I don't have the cash right now to do what I want to my Pro. But that still doesn't mean I don't like reading about them.

Regards,

Protege_fan <------That's all makes of Pros.

jstandefer · August 2001

I would have to agree that the MP3 is quite the bargain. The suspension upgrades alone are worth the extra price. I was just disappointed in the engine output. The Protege ES will already outhandle just about every comparable vehicle out there. What it really needs is power. When I first heard about it (MPS at that time, and I wish they would have used the MPS moniker rather than MP3) I was thinking a successor to the old late 80's 323GTX. It's 1.6L DOHC B6 series engine cranked out 132hp and 136lb-ft from its turbocharged 4 cylinders and ran it to all 4 wheels with a lockable center differential. 132hp doesn't sound like much, but it was a huge increase from the stock 1.6L engine and combined with its lightweight, propelled the 4WD GTX to 60mph in 7.8 seconds. The 323GT had the same engine but was front wheel drive. Its acceleration time should be quicker due to less drivetrain power loss and less weight.

However, next year's should be quite interesting. I'm assuming the Protege Accessories and Modifications board doesn't quite cut it for a separate board for modifications? We have discussed all kinds of things in there from sound system upgrades to tires to strut tower braces. Otherwise, I hear MazdaMP3.com is quite the place for MP3 owners. There's a guy on there who has 193hp at the wheels on a lightly modified MP3. All he added was the MazdaSpeed intake and exhaust cam kits, ram air intake, and racing catalytic converter. He still is waiting on a high compression piston set and an ignition computer. Unfortunately, it doesn't sound like a very friendly board.

scooti · August 2001

My wife and I were both born in Scranton Pa.
We now live in a town called Mountaintop Pa., just south of Wilkes Barre.

Bill

dran · August 2001

Do any of the knowledgeable participants in this esteemed board know of any suppliers for computer chips for Japanese cars. I found many links for audis and BMWs but none for Japanese cars. Please post any links.

Thanks

black01coupev6 · August 2001

You guys gotta be going for the posting record or something.

proteus2 · August 2001

<<Otherwise, I hear MazdaMP3.com is quite the place for MP3 owners. There's a guy on there who has 193hp at the wheels on a lightly modified MP3. All he added was the MazdaSpeed intake and exhaust cam kits, ram air intake, and racing catalytic converter>>

This is exactly what I was looking for!! Now I dont have to wade through comments about choosing the right snow tires. Thanks! And stay safe, no matter what you drive.

newcar31 · August 2001

I believe the computer in the Protoge has some intel components and the emission system computer is Ford's EECV.

jstandefer · August 2001

Unfortunately, newcar31 is correct. The Protege's engine management computer is an Intel processor. I would have preferred a PowerPC chip, but I guess this does the job.

dran, check out SuperChips.com for Asian, European, and domestic performance chip applications. Unfortunately, there is not a chip available for the Protege. I have e-mailed them about two years ago. They replied that there isn't enough demand on the market to create a chip for the Protege, plus the EEC-V emissions computer is hard to get around. They said if enough demand generates, they will consider making a chip for the Protege. If they did make a chip, I would expect the power gain to be about 10-11hp and 15-16lb-ft of torque looking at the gains for the 1992-1995 626/MX-6 2.0L chip. That engine is basically the same as the Protege 1.8L and 2.0L.

protegextwo · August 2001

Joe, Congrats on your new PRO! Trust me, you will like driving your new Mazda more than you can imagine! :-)

-Larry

protegextwo · August 2001

Sorry, I missed the chats, two weeks in a row. I have been super busy at TGI Friday's, lately. I had my Kitchen Mgr. on vacation this week and my Assoc. General Mgr. on vacation last week, yikes! I'll make the next one!!!

-Larry

fowler3 · August 2001

It came back on,but we lost connection again about 10:00PM ET. No problem, protegextwo, the system had errors and we lost some time in the chat room tonight.

I keep reading about modifications and wonder which ones I would make. Actually, I'm not a speed freak and would go for whatever would maker my Protegé a baby Millennium S. LOL

Neither am I an audio person since I'm totally deaf in one ear, but I do enjoy the stereo in my Pro and it's one of the reasons I bought it.

My biggest complaint about the Protegé is the too small door mirrors, which I put on my survey back to Mazda. I'm also going blind in my right eye due to glaucoma and really need large mirrors like the
ones used on SUV's. But have learned to adapt to the smaller ones.

Some days I make other drivers' trips exciting.

No modifications needed.

ROTFL!!

The other day, my neighbor noticed me pulling into and backing partly out of my garage several times and asked what was I trying to do? I told her, 'Make a U-turn!'

They don't make home garages wide enough these days if you use the wall space for storage. I was trying to position the Pro so I could open the door wider. A big bag of dog food, against the side wall, was preventing this.

fowler3

the_big_h · August 2001

go to http://groups.yahoo.com/group/protegetech. I think it will serve you very well. The boards here at Edmunds are more or less for folks that are more interested purchasing and the daily operation/maintenance of stock Pro's than doing serious performance mods. I read both boards so I can keep an eye out for things that might interest me.

hope this helps.

protegextwo · August 2001

Hank, thank you for posting that link! I'm going to check out, if only; to see what others are doing with their PRO's.

Hey Fowler, glad your project is completed. Nice to have you "back"!

-Larry

protegextwo · August 2001

You to behave today, hehe!
;-)

-Larry

mdaffron · August 2001

I have no intention of behaving. My, Larry, you're up awful early! I just got to work and rummaged through the 20-odd emails since I left work yesterday afternoon. BTW, it's 7:35 a.m. here and we had one hell of a thunderstorm last night -- tore the flag on the front of our house all to pieces. I was hunkering down, cringing at every lightning flash -- I don't need another direct hit like we had back in June! TWO home theatre systems, FOUR phones, SIX GFI outlets and TWO $1,400 ham rigs in one year are quite enough!

Bill ... Hi there. I don't remember talking with you before; then again, my brain is aging like a bottle of fine milk.

I see you live in PA. We've already got two Pennsylvania folks who'll be hitching up their horses to their Proteges and putting that little orange triangle on the back and coming to the second-annual Mid-Atlantic Protege Picnic on October 6! Why don't you come too? If you're interested, e-mail me at:

mdaffron@the-rma.org

and I'll send you all the details. By the way Larry, Paul and other attendees, I'm getting mad at you. You're not talking up the picnic!

Meade

scooti · August 2001

Thanks for the invite. I am scheduled to be in my nephew's wedding on 10-6-01. Thanks for extending the invite though. We bought our 01 ES 5 speed on 8-3-01 and my wife has almost 1300 mi. on it already. The rare times I have been able to drive it (like when it needs gas), it sure seems like a fun car. It shifts so smoothly, and is much quieter on the highway than a 97 Protege ES 5sp we had at one time. Actually I like the way the 01 Protege 5sp shifts better than our other car-
2000 Mazda 626 ES V-6, 5 sp.

Bill

sfrat · August 2001

Morning all,

I just checked out Racing Beat at www.racingbeat.com, and they have updated their information for the Protege parts that they are going to be producing. Check it out, I'm really tempted by the exhaust. Maybe I can get it on by MAPP II.

Steve

chikoo · August 2001

Meade: The O-ring size, thread and external diameter are the same. Only that it is 1.5inches longer.

Why I want a bigger filter? 'cause the small filter is useful only for 3000 miles. After that it stops filtering. Mazda's owner manual call for oil changes at 7500 miles which is a dream with this american spec filter. I remember and so does somebody else on the board that the filter on the new cars from japan is a longer one...which would last atleast 5000 miles of filtering.

I rightly believe that they reduced the size of the filter in USA so that it can cope up with the hype of 3000 miles oil change....not so in Europe where the trend is for extended drain with the new synthetic oils and longer lasting filters.

I use synthetic oils and I observe that after 3000 miles, while the car still runs as smooth, the soot from the combustion is not filtered out from the oil ..and that is a concern for me.

Why should I change oils just because of a smaller filter?

So, will the length of the filter cause any problems? will it interfere when the engine turns on it's mount due to torque?

Jerry, Matlb..I am waiting for your inputs

chikoo · August 2001

One quick question for you:

During the @50,000 miles of ownership, how many times have you had to get your steering aligned?

Is it sill in alignment?

maltb · August 2001

I don't think anyone here has the exact specs on the oil filter. I am sure that whatever engineers picked that filter took into account the change intervals that Mazda specified. I am not an engineer, so I couldn't tell you if it's safe to use another filter.

If you think the filter will work, try it. However, you also assume liability for your your decision. If you can find a filter maker that specifies a longer filter, then they assume the liability for their product.

Having taken engines from stock to wild and then back again, I have a real appreciation for the engineering that goes into OEM parts and what they are specified for.

laurakat · August 2001

I can relate to comparing the Pro and 626. I used to own a 1999 626 ES V6 5spd. I feel my 2001 Pro LX 2.0 shifts better. It's more fun to drive, looks better, and has more personality than my 626. However, I do miss the Bose audio system and 2.5 V6 sometimes!

Mike.

yooper53 · August 2001

I just had my initial oil change @ 5400 miles and used Mobil 1. Where are you getting your info regarding the oem filter not being able to filter beyond 3K miles??
Open question re: '01 Pro ES. Twice now I've topped off fuel after low fuel warning light came on. In both cases it took only 12 gallons,leaving 2.5 gallons when light illuminates. Is this in line with other owners of "01 Pro ES?
Thanks in advance.

sfrat · August 2001

Sounds pretty close to mine as well, although I rarely let it get that low, usually fill up when there is 1/4 tank left.

protege_fan · August 2001

That's almost exactly what I got in my '01 LX 2.0 the time I let the low fuel light come on. Strange though, I've filled up for 45 L (12 gallons) and the low fuel light was not on. Anybody have a reason for this discrepency? Maybe I was squeezing that extra bit in.

Pro_fan

chikoo · August 2001

Maltb: I too appreciate OEM specs....and therefore never modify an engine or any structural part....but this filter size just looks way toooo small to handle 7500 miles of filtering.

Yooper...I keep checking my oil almost every week for any changes in color and thickness.
I also keep in mind how the engine starts and how it feels during revving.

Right now, I have 5000 miles from my last oil change..car still revs great...starts just like new...but oil has started showing black microparticles in it since 4000 miles and growing.
That is how I figured that the filter has reduced in filtering capacity.

Am I wrong?
I am open to any comments.

newcar31 · August 2001

There is more than just the thread and gasket size when determining if a filter will work or not. I just stick with the Motorcraft FL 816 because they are bigger than the Mazda filters but at the same time they are meant to be used on this engine. It sounds like you need to start using oil analysis. I wouldn't base anything on what the oil looks like, it may still be doing the job.

topazmoon · August 2001

Hi Kids!

Dropped off my four month old 2001 Protege LX 2.0 at my local dealership because the "Check Engine Light" came on and the "Overdrive Off" light started flashing yesterday. Thought it was nothing more than a malfunctioning sensor that was covered under warranty. However just got a call from the service department informing me that "vermin" (mice or rats) had gotten into my engine and chewed the wiring at the turbo speed sensor at the transmission. Since the wiring was chewed by an outside influence, I'm out $224.

I'm just curious to see if this has ever happened to anyone else or is the dealership trying to take me for a ride. I would have preferred taking the car back where I purchased it (John Hine Mazda in San Diego--Thanks Jstander), but that's a 90 minute drive and I didn't think it would be wise with a warning light flashing at me.

Thanks in advance!!!

Cynthia

maltb · August 2001

it's the Turbine speed sensor. close...

I've heard similar rat stories from time to time but it's not too common. What a bummer that they had to charge you for that. Takes the polish off a new car. Sounds like it's tie to set some rodent traps in the garage.

edmund2460 · August 2001

On my new car sales survey I wrote in the comment that I don't take kindly to Ford collaboration on Maxda products. I fled from Ford, and especially if it's made here for Mazda, I will look elsewhere for my new car. This global car concept might be good economics but my feeling is that a integrated operation from design to production will in the long run produce a better car with better quality.

mdaffron · August 2001

Thanks for the support Alex! I've been following Ford's ignition module saga for a while ... you'd have thunk that after being caught with their pants down with the Pinto Problem in the 70s they would've learned their lesson. I guess Glenn Frey was right ... "It's the lure of easy money ... it's got a strong appeal."

Meade

maltb · August 2001

send me an e-mail if you would.

mazdafun · August 2001

They happen. Squirrels, chipmunks and mice do get into the warm, toasty engine compartment and start working on the chewy bits. I found a nest that some critter started building in the engine bay of my 323 (parked outdoors, poor thing). Didn't find the critter and didn't find any tooth damage (lucky).

You're lucky they didn't die (and then rot) in there. Not much you can do but place traps around the garage. Not much can be done for a car parked outdoors. Just open the engine bay frequently. That discourages them from nesting.

mazdafun · August 2001

Usually starts getting really dark after about 3000 miles. I guess lots of local miles wears out the oil faster. I could go longer between oil changes since I use full synthetic, but the color of the oil prompts me to change it more frequently.

The factory-installed unit was almost half again as long as the filters I got from a Mazda dealer (as someone said, a "tuna can").

I'll post the Mazda PN of my filter when I get home and read it off the box.

Mazda Protegé

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