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Comments
On ABS, keep in mind that a good driver can outperform the stopping distances that ABS provides, and indeed, many sports car manufacturers spurned them at first before they became ubiquitous. However, in a total panic situation, ABS is probably better.
If you have doubts, check out the study NHTSA did. ABS does shorten the stopping distance on pavement as well as provides increased control of the vehicle.
By the way, the dealer FINALLY fixed my rattle. There was a screw loose behind the dashboard vent.
It goes back to a very simple thing...the more automatic systems you add to a car, the more chance there is for failure of that system. I stomp my own brakes thanks.
As for the sunroof, it would be nice to have if it didn't eat into the headroom (I'm 6'3") but I don't really miss it on this car.
Have fun at MAPP II, I'm green with envy and it doesn't match the car!
Bob
I agree that there are good reasons to have ABS ... I just think the complexity and cost outweigh those reasons. And to whoever it was who said air bags are great too ... my answer is, I totaled my 1992 Protege LX in August 1992. I hit the back of a stopped Volvo station wagon going about 45 mph. My only safety device was that damned "passive restraint" motorized belt. No air bag. But the car did a "textbook crumple" and I walked away. Yes, there are times when an air bag will save your life, and I'm glad to have them on my 2000 ES. But luckily, I've never had to depend on one, and I shudder when I think of how back in 1999, when I hit a deer head-on at 60 mph in my Mazda truck, I had a $2,000 insurance claim to fix my bashed-in front end. Had that truck had air bags, it would've been totaled. It costs thousands of dollars to replace a deployed air bag system.
Anyway, we all have opinions ... that's what makes this topic so interesting to read. I respect everyone's opinions here ... well, almost everyone's. Paul and Jerry are total nuts.
There, that oughta stir the pot a little! ;-)
Meadeball
I'm starting to wonder if I made the right decision to buy a car with abs (I have a 01 2.0 LX w/ the abs/sab package). I've driven many years w/o it (I'm 34) and have driven everything from a small front wheel drive compact to a large Frito Lay step van in snow and ice. I used to deliver pizzas back in college in Duluth, MN (those of you familiar with Duluth know how hilly that city is) and survived countless panic situations in snow and ice. I guess I'll have to learn abs sometime in my life, because I assume 5 to 10 years from now it'll be hard to buy a car without it, unless you want to buy an old used car.
For those of you attending MAPP II, I'm jealous! It sounds like a great time! I'd love to attend myself, but that's a bit of a hike from MN. To all attending, drive safely and have a great time. Tell us all about it when return.
Mike
MAPP II attendees...ZOOM ZOOM ZOOM! I wish I could be there, but work and $$$ prohibit right now. I too am jealous that you all get to do something like that...I tried several times to organize a similar event here in Chicago but could never gather enough interest from other Protege owners. PLEASE post pics asap after the event. I can't wait to see them!!!!
Regards and happy ZOOMING,
Pete
Mike
I've seen two references now - one a post on Protege Vs Sentra in sedan-vs-sedan on Townhall, and another on a web page - saying that mazda will bring out a MPS car with much higher power for the protege next year. The web page claimed it would be in Spring '02. Anyone else know any more about that? Are there any definitive references, or is this all wishful thinking? I also saw a post discuss a possible higher-power Protege engine this fall, but that seems less certain than an '02 MPS.
I think the protege is a great car but I would like more power, given the choice.
Thanks for any info or references.
very slow day on the board, where is everybody...
The round-up features the MP3 with lesser cars like the Acura RSX Type-S, Chevrolet Camaro Z-28, Dodge Neon R/T, Ford Mustang GT, Mitsubishi Eclipse GT, Nissan Altima 3.5 SE, Subaru Impreza WRX, Toyota Celica GT-S & Volkswagen GTI GLX (?). Bottom line? Best handling car: "thanks to it's well dialed-in suspension...fastest car through the corners at Buttonwillow Raceway...cornering speed...easily 3 MPH faster than any of the other cars."
Also: "...hardly any body roll in its well-balanced chassis so, despite its lack of ABS, it could brake much later than any of the others."
"MP3 threads through the cones at 68.5MPH -- besting...the Chevy Corvette Z06 (67.1) and...Ferrari 360 Spider (66.6)."
R&T calls it "currently the best sports-car bargain in America". Good reading.
I have read the new Road & Track and Car and Driver articles. The MP3 appears to be a handling beast. If it had 210 or so hp, it would seem to be untouchable on a tight race track. If they do come out with a turbo version, I might have to get one. It will leave me financially devastated, but who cares, I'll have a turbo Protege.
make me feel proud of my decision to buy the ES in '99
Tomorrow morning, at a park in Northern Virginia, 13 Proteges representing model years 1993 through 2002 (including a P5) will roll in, one by one, their freshly waxed bodies glistening from a morning drive in the drizzle (dammit). As the clouds break around noon and the sun comes out, sixteen new friends from as far north as Danbury, Connecticut, as far south as Norfolk, Virginia, and as far west as Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, will be chowing down on burgers, hot dogs, ham biscuits and crab somethings (from Paul), wearing their new Edmunds T-shirts.
Hey guys, I just had a cool idea that would make one hell of a photo -- since it'll be raining in the morning and we'll all arrive with our cars spotted up, why don't we all descend on that local self-service carwash after lunch en masse? Can you imagine the sight of THIRTEEN Proteges showing up, all in a line, to use the carwash?
And since there's a Mazda dealership between the park and the carwash, we could all convoy to the dealership too! What a sight that would make -- especially if there are customers there, which there should be on a Saturday afternoon! Imagine the look on the salespeoples' faces as we all park in a big mass in front of the dealership!
Whaddaya think? This is going to be too much fun!
Meade
I've got 29, 34, & 15.
krotine
On the ABS front, all I have to say it's that I would have taken ABS in my Pro, but not for $1000 as an option or part of some $2500 package. If it were under $500 I would have gotten it (is that proper Eng?). I refuse to pay more than that for a feature that is needed if you're not careful when driving. Sure if it's snowing and you're talking on a cell phone while drinking your coffee and changing CD's at the same time, you should consider it. Otherwise, if you pay attention to the road, scan around you and keep a fair distance from the car in front, ABS is useless. And when it's dry, it's actually worse than just regular brakes (but we all knew that anyway). Point is I've had 3 cars in my life: 89 Tercel, 93 Civic and now the ES, all w/out ABS. It snows in T.O. and I drive about 85 km/day Mon-Fri to school and work, in rush-hour and late at night when I finish work. Haven't had any issues except one last winter with the Civic approaching a 4-way stop on a residential street that was going downhill. The brakes locked and I was slidding through the intersection, so I pumped the brakes, turned the wheels towards the sidewalk and quickly pulled and released the hand brake: Civic stopped at a 90 degree angle to the road after hitting the sidewalk in about 2 secs. I was going a little too fast and since then I drive more carefully on snow/ice.
Cruuise ctrl: nice to have, but for city driving or a 2hr trip, useless. I use it about 4 times/yr on trips to Montreal (going this Saturday).
This week I installed the read mud guards on the Pro and bought 6 oil filters ($36) from Mazda. Service guy said that if there is an issue with the car and a warranty claim, if a non-Mazda filter is installed, they might not do the work. So better safe than sorry (plus they were cheaper than Canadian Tire's brand ($7.69 each instead of $6)- auto store here in canada). Can't go wrong with OEM that is cheaper than the store brands.
For everyone going to MAPP 3, have fun, take pics of the cars and everyone attending and have fun.
Cheers!~Dinu
Why are we forced to have airbags in our cars? For some people it is safe to have them, but for people that are short and consequently have to sit close to the wheel, it's a guaranteed visit to the hospital if they deploy. I wish I could turn them off sice my mother is about 5'1"-5'2"(?). Here in Canada you have to get the Fed. gov't's permission to disable them and that process takes a few months. Why isn't there a switch to turn them off when someone else is using the car? Side airbags are safer I think b/c it would hit you in your arm, but the reg. airbags that deploy from the steering wheel are dangerous. Just my comments on the subject. But damn I HATE them!
Meade
That said, I had a few questions....
First, the only thing that really bothered me was something that had been highlighted to death, the steering. The car had two miles on its odod, but when I tried to turn the car the steering seems stiff and unyielding. The car was pulling to the right a bit, so it might have needed an alignment.
In addition, when I accelerated onto the freeway the overdrive kicked in and the car reved up over 5K RPM'S, is that normal for this vehicle?
Also, how does relaibility, drivability, and overall value of the Protege compare with that of the Nissan Sentra?
Fianlly, with a sticker of $18,600, howe close to invoice ($17,100) do you think I can get?
Thanks for any thoughts you might have.
Bob
I was on Richmond's Downtown Expressway, in a hurry as usual, and went through an Exact Change lane using my Smart Tag. Exact Change lanes have gates, of course, and usually I time it just right -- slowing down to 25 or so, so the gate has time to open and I slip right under it as it's raising.
Well, this morning the antenna didn't get the message from my Smart Tag transponder in my windshield, and the gate stayed down! I stood on the brakes (hey ABS fans, my non-ABS brakes didn't lock up) but I still hit the gate square in my windshield at about 15 mph!!!
Thank God for foam gate padding! The gate's arm was wrapped with tape-covered foam, and it has a breakaway feature too. I sent that gate swinging forward after it thudded into my windshield. I got to my deck and gave the A-pillars and windshield a good look, but fortunately all it did was scuff the dust on the windshield.
Boy was I relieved!
Meade
As for your steering, that sounds abnormal. I'd get them to take a look at that.
Meade
As for the steering, the Protege does have somewhat stiff or heavy steering, especially in comparison to something like my last vehicle, a B2300 pickup which had a positively loose (to an unsafe degree) steering feel. The Protege does take a bit of muscling around corners but that stiff, heavy steering translates into precise handling. As I noted earlier, I had some trouble with my Pro5 in steering through tight S-curves. I imagine part of it was that 10 and 2 is not the ideal grip location for this and/or I need stronger shoulders The pull to the right is unusual, my P5 drives straight as an arrow and only meanders as the road does or as my hands tell it to.
Meade
Thanks again, Meade, for inviting me and I'm sorry I cannot make it - I have a ton of work I've got to get done this weekend for a Tuesday deadline. I hope I can make it next year.
Enjoy! We'll be looking for a full report here, of course. ;-)
Pat
Host
Sedans Message Board
In fact, one of the attendees, Jason Krotine from Pittsburgh, has already set up a page for it at his website:
http://www.krotine.com
It'll be under "Events." Nice car, BTW, Jason! Can't wait to meet it (and you) in person tomorrow! Anyway, check there next week.
Meade
By the way, what is it with east coasters and doughnuts? Whenever I go out to NJ/NY/CT I see tons of doughnut shops. Here in Mpls., you have to look for them.
Laurakat? Interested??????
Regards and hoping to hear soon!
Pete
newcar31 - I heard on the news a couple of nights ago that 2 Krispy Kreme stores will be coming to MN by, I believe, next summer. I think it was Kare 11 that had that story.
Mike
As I remember, you live in Minesota? Heck of a drive for you isn't it? I did get an email from a lurker a while back (very nice person) that was also interested. There are two Pro-owners at my work too who may be interested as well, a new P5 owner and a 98 DX owner. I will talk to both of them as well...
C'Mon Chicago Protege owners....where are you?!?!?!?
Pete
I hope all you MAPP-sters have a good time Saturday. Hopefully the weather holds so we don't have to read about the teardrop spots on your previously immaculate cars!
CRAP.
HA HA HA HA HA!!!!!
Regarding Krispy Kremes ... There's a soft spot in the hearts of us Richmonders for their old Krispy Kreme store ... so much so that it created front-page headlines when they decided to tear down the old store (many, many years old -- one of the first Krispy Kreme stores) and rebuild it -- meaning the "hot doughnuts" sign would be off for several months. What would Richmond do?
Here's a description of what happened from the marketing firm, Carter Riley Thomas (CRT) that headed up the marketing for this HUGE event ... which is funny; the razing of a doughnut store doesn't often make the front page headlines in Richmond!
Enjoy!
http://www.crtpr.com/casehistories/krispy_kreme.html
Meade
Speaking of hot, I was testing the waters this week to see if I could take advantage of some of the hot deals on new Protege's this week. They didn't have what I was looking for in a 2001, so I decided to stick tight with my 99 ES, even though I had all that body work done not too long ago. It seems to be fine though. Besides, I like the leather interior better than a sunroof anyways.
The final tally? 13 cars and 20 people. That beats the pants off last year's 5 cars and 9 people. I've got the digital camera ready to go.
Now if the weather will just cooperate. It's hard to look out the window at the cloudless Richmond sky at 3:25 p.m. and know it's supposed to be rainy tomorrow morning. I hope they're wrong! Oh well, it's supposed to clear off by lunchtime anyway. Could be worse!
Everybody have a great weekend. The picnic will be old news by the time I get back here to my internet connection at work next Tuesday (we're off Monday for Columbus Day -- that's one benefit of having a state job). Please save some excitement for me -- I'll have a bunch of as-yet-unseen pics to share then!
ZOOM ZOOM ZOOM!
Meade
(Yeah zoomzoomzoom)
I just changed to AMSOIL 5w30 with mobil1 filter.....and got the thrill of my life....
As I pushed down the gas pedal as i usually do to ge upto 2500rpm, I see the tach at 4000 RPM......the engine is running like a sewing machine....It's become really hard to control the RPM since even the slighest push on the gas pedal sends the tach up to 3000+ rpm
This really feels like Zoooom Zooom....
have a good MAPP-II everybody.
I am envious that I even tho' i am so close, I am simply not able to come over...:(
Well, so you're going to try again? I'll e-mail you separately, but also posting here to encourage others.
Yes, the 13th would be fine with me...
Come on, midwesterners!
P.S. to Meade: I'm going to let this one slip by, because I know you're just so excited by your little event that you got carried away, but CRAP? Come on, now
I feel shame.
twist