Mazda Protegé

vocus · October 2001

VW couldn't even earn my business from their dealers' attitudes. They misrepresented an ad in the paper, then wouldn't honor it. They had a Jetta GLX advertised for like $20,000 and said it was a mistake. Oh well. They got none of my business. The dealers are rude and nasty. I can just imagine how the service dept. is. And the cars are overpriced for the size/power they have.

proteus2 · October 2001

For me cruise control is a take it or leave it kind of thing. It doesn't bother me that I don't have it, but for someone who does a lot of highway driving, they might feel differently.
On ABS, keep in mind that a good driver can outperform the stopping distances that ABS provides, and indeed, many sports car manufacturers spurned them at first before they became ubiquitous. However, in a total panic situation, ABS is probably better.

protege_fan · October 2001

Keep in mind that ABS is not really designed to shorten stopping distances. In fact, it has been shown that ABS increases stopping distances on certain types of road conditions (i.e. gravel). Rather ABS is able to prevent wheel lock-up. Wheel lock-up makes the car un-steerable (sp?)in panic situations. With ABS there is at least some chance to maneuver in a panic stop situation.

maltb · October 2001

That used to be the case, but not so any more. ABS with EBD modulates each wheel. Unless you can control each wheel independently, you are SOL.

If you have doubts, check out the study NHTSA did. ABS does shorten the stopping distance on pavement as well as provides increased control of the vehicle.

newcar31 · October 2001

EXACTLY. That's what I think. My Integra needed new rear wheel bearings and they were different from the non-abs wheel bearing for some reason. Price: $180 per wheel!!! I wonder how much the rotors which were different from the non ABS rotors are for that car? Repair costs was a MAJOR reason why I didn't want ABS. I didn't want a sunroof either because my Integra's sunroof made a lot of windnoise. Simple, simple, simple is what I needed for my new car. Maltb--I NEVER had the ABS go on when the road was dry. The traction of the tires was always enough to stop VERY quickly without ABS. When the road was snowy or icy, ABS sucked. It made it really hard to threshold brake and when the ABS kicked in, it seemed like the car slid forever. When there is snow on the road, sometimes its better to lock up the wheels (unless of course you are turning) because the extra friction between the tires and snow actually makes you stop quicker than the pulsing of ABS. During the MN winters, I quickly got tired of ABS.

By the way, the dealer FINALLY fixed my rattle. There was a screw loose behind the dashboard vent.

bondobob · October 2001

Well, I'm freshly 42 years old and my first car with ABS was a Plymouth Breeze (one of the cloud cars). It never worked right and would actually freewheel the damn car at times when you really wanted the car to be digging the front bumper into the ground. It was a company lease and went away three years later without Chrysler ever figuring out the problem.

It goes back to a very simple thing...the more automatic systems you add to a car, the more chance there is for failure of that system. I stomp my own brakes thanks.

As for the sunroof, it would be nice to have if it didn't eat into the headroom (I'm 6'3") but I don't really miss it on this car.

Have fun at MAPP II, I'm green with envy and it doesn't match the car!

Bob

mdaffron · October 2001

Well, it's nice to see we're all still friends. I thought I'd be reading a lot of hate mail this morning following my hard-cutting, highly opinionated dissertation yesterday afternoon.

I agree that there are good reasons to have ABS ... I just think the complexity and cost outweigh those reasons. And to whoever it was who said air bags are great too ... my answer is, I totaled my 1992 Protege LX in August 1992. I hit the back of a stopped Volvo station wagon going about 45 mph. My only safety device was that damned "passive restraint" motorized belt. No air bag. But the car did a "textbook crumple" and I walked away. Yes, there are times when an air bag will save your life, and I'm glad to have them on my 2000 ES. But luckily, I've never had to depend on one, and I shudder when I think of how back in 1999, when I hit a deer head-on at 60 mph in my Mazda truck, I had a $2,000 insurance claim to fix my bashed-in front end. Had that truck had air bags, it would've been totaled. It costs thousands of dollars to replace a deployed air bag system.

Anyway, we all have opinions ... that's what makes this topic so interesting to read. I respect everyone's opinions here ... well, almost everyone's. Paul and Jerry are total nuts.

There, that oughta stir the pot a little! ;-)

Meadeball

vocus · October 2001

Why does everyone have to pick on me??

laurakat · October 2001

I hate to beat this subject to death, but I thought I'd put my .02 worth (if it's even worth that much, LOL). For those of us (myself included) who have driven many years w/o abs, it's certainly going to be a learning curve to 'learn' how to stop w/ abs. My dad slid through an intersection last winter in a snow storm in his abs equiped Ford Explorer. Luckily, he just slid through and didn't hit anyone, but when he was describing it to me, he kept saying how he was pumping the brakes but couldn't stop in time. I had to remind him that you're not supposed to pump the brakes with abs. I quess old habits are hard to break.

I'm starting to wonder if I made the right decision to buy a car with abs (I have a 01 2.0 LX w/ the abs/sab package). I've driven many years w/o it (I'm 34) and have driven everything from a small front wheel drive compact to a large Frito Lay step van in snow and ice. I used to deliver pizzas back in college in Duluth, MN (those of you familiar with Duluth know how hilly that city is) and survived countless panic situations in snow and ice. I guess I'll have to learn abs sometime in my life, because I assume 5 to 10 years from now it'll be hard to buy a car without it, unless you want to buy an old used car.

For those of you attending MAPP II, I'm jealous! It sounds like a great time! I'd love to attend myself, but that's a bit of a hike from MN. To all attending, drive safely and have a great time. Tell us all about it when return.

Mike

speedypt · October 2001

I love the ABS...that's all I've got to say.

MAPP II attendees...ZOOM ZOOM ZOOM! I wish I could be there, but work and $$$ prohibit right now. I too am jealous that you all get to do something like that...I tried several times to organize a similar event here in Chicago but could never gather enough interest from other Protege owners. PLEASE post pics asap after the event. I can't wait to see them!!!!

Regards and happy ZOOMING,

Pete

laurakat · October 2001

I'd be interested in a Chicago area Protege event. Hopefully we can get several others from around here interested! Newcar31, I know you're from MN. Anyone else around here?

Mike

elec3 · October 2001

I'm from Naperville but going to school in New Mexico. If the event were during the summer when I'm home, I'd definitely be interested in bringing my P5 by

bjewett · October 2001

Hi all,

I've seen two references now - one a post on Protege Vs Sentra in sedan-vs-sedan on Townhall, and another on a web page - saying that mazda will bring out a MPS car with much higher power for the protege next year. The web page claimed it would be in Spring '02. Anyone else know any more about that? Are there any definitive references, or is this all wishful thinking? I also saw a post discuss a possible higher-power Protege engine this fall, but that seems less certain than an '02 MPS.

I think the protege is a great car but I would like more power, given the choice.

Thanks for any info or references.

vocus · October 2001

The 2002 models do have a higher-power engine in the lower models. The 1.6 will be no more, and will be replaced by the 2.0 engine, which will be standard fare across the Protege line for 2002.

mckague · October 2001

I'm certain I read somewhere some speculation about an a MPS protege for 2002 that I believe mentioned forced induction. I will check when I get home for any references, but I think it was in Autoweek which has in the past been fairly reliable. I'll get back on that one with any quotes I find. There are a number of mentions in earlier posts, but I don't recall any source referenced - could be wrong on that, though.

the_big_h · October 2001

9pm ET/6pm PT

very slow day on the board, where is everybody...

bondobob · October 2001

Just got my copy of R & T (hey, that means that Car & Driver will be here tomorrow!) and the cover shows the Mazda MP3 leading the way (well, INSIDE POLE position anyway) in a double line of "Ten Hot Cars for Under $25,000".

The round-up features the MP3 with lesser cars like the Acura RSX Type-S, Chevrolet Camaro Z-28, Dodge Neon R/T, Ford Mustang GT, Mitsubishi Eclipse GT, Nissan Altima 3.5 SE, Subaru Impreza WRX, Toyota Celica GT-S & Volkswagen GTI GLX (?). Bottom line? Best handling car: "thanks to it's well dialed-in suspension...fastest car through the corners at Buttonwillow Raceway...cornering speed...easily 3 MPH faster than any of the other cars."

Also: "...hardly any body roll in its well-balanced chassis so, despite its lack of ABS, it could brake much later than any of the others."

"MP3 threads through the cones at 68.5MPH -- besting...the Chevy Corvette Z06 (67.1) and...Ferrari 360 Spider (66.6)."

R&T calls it "currently the best sports-car bargain in America". Good reading.

newcar31 · October 2001

Sport Compact Car also mentioned forced induction. The talked with a Mazda engineer who said that more power is on the way and it will come from something that "whistles".

I have read the new Road & Track and Car and Driver articles. The MP3 appears to be a handling beast. If it had 210 or so hp, it would seem to be untouchable on a tight race track. If they do come out with a turbo version, I might have to get one. It will leave me financially devastated, but who cares, I'll have a turbo Protege.

chikoo · October 2001

"MP3 threads through the cones at 68.5MPH -- besting...the Chevy Corvette Z06 (67.1) and...Ferrari 360 Spider (66.6)."

make me feel proud of my decision to buy the ES in '99

mdaffron · October 2001

Here's an update to make the rest of you green with envy.

Tomorrow morning, at a park in Northern Virginia, 13 Proteges representing model years 1993 through 2002 (including a P5) will roll in, one by one, their freshly waxed bodies glistening from a morning drive in the drizzle (dammit). As the clouds break around noon and the sun comes out, sixteen new friends from as far north as Danbury, Connecticut, as far south as Norfolk, Virginia, and as far west as Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, will be chowing down on burgers, hot dogs, ham biscuits and crab somethings (from Paul), wearing their new Edmunds T-shirts.

Hey guys, I just had a cool idea that would make one hell of a photo -- since it'll be raining in the morning and we'll all arrive with our cars spotted up, why don't we all descend on that local self-service carwash after lunch en masse? Can you imagine the sight of THIRTEEN Proteges showing up, all in a line, to use the carwash?

And since there's a Mazda dealership between the park and the carwash, we could all convoy to the dealership too! What a sight that would make -- especially if there are customers there, which there should be on a Saturday afternoon! Imagine the look on the salespeoples' faces as we all park in a big mass in front of the dealership!

Whaddaya think? This is going to be too much fun!

Meade

krotine · October 2001

Just curious... what is the age range for this event?

I've got 29, 34, & 15.

krotine

dinu01 · October 2001

Mornin' everyone from rainy T.O.!

On the ABS front, all I have to say it's that I would have taken ABS in my Pro, but not for $1000 as an option or part of some $2500 package. If it were under $500 I would have gotten it (is that proper Eng?). I refuse to pay more than that for a feature that is needed if you're not careful when driving. Sure if it's snowing and you're talking on a cell phone while drinking your coffee and changing CD's at the same time, you should consider it. Otherwise, if you pay attention to the road, scan around you and keep a fair distance from the car in front, ABS is useless. And when it's dry, it's actually worse than just regular brakes (but we all knew that anyway). Point is I've had 3 cars in my life: 89 Tercel, 93 Civic and now the ES, all w/out ABS. It snows in T.O. and I drive about 85 km/day Mon-Fri to school and work, in rush-hour and late at night when I finish work. Haven't had any issues except one last winter with the Civic approaching a 4-way stop on a residential street that was going downhill. The brakes locked and I was slidding through the intersection, so I pumped the brakes, turned the wheels towards the sidewalk and quickly pulled and released the hand brake: Civic stopped at a 90 degree angle to the road after hitting the sidewalk in about 2 secs. I was going a little too fast and since then I drive more carefully on snow/ice.

Cruuise ctrl: nice to have, but for city driving or a 2hr trip, useless. I use it about 4 times/yr on trips to Montreal (going this Saturday).

This week I installed the read mud guards on the Pro and bought 6 oil filters ($36) from Mazda. Service guy said that if there is an issue with the car and a warranty claim, if a non-Mazda filter is installed, they might not do the work. So better safe than sorry (plus they were cheaper than Canadian Tire's brand ($7.69 each instead of $6)- auto store here in canada). Can't go wrong with OEM that is cheaper than the store brands.

For everyone going to MAPP 3, have fun, take pics of the cars and everyone attending and have fun.

Cheers!~Dinu

dinu01 · October 2001

Hate it! Hate it! Hate it!

Why are we forced to have airbags in our cars? For some people it is safe to have them, but for people that are short and consequently have to sit close to the wheel, it's a guaranteed visit to the hospital if they deploy. I wish I could turn them off sice my mother is about 5'1"-5'2"(?). Here in Canada you have to get the Fed. gov't's permission to disable them and that process takes a few months. Why isn't there a switch to turn them off when someone else is using the car? Side airbags are safer I think b/c it would hit you in your arm, but the reg. airbags that deploy from the steering wheel are dangerous. Just my comments on the subject. But damn I HATE them!

mdaffron · October 2001

I'm 36.

Meade

bobcatbob · October 2001

I test drove a 2002 Protege ES with an automatic tranny yesterday. First of all, I love the interior of the car, Very well built and ergonomically sound, the seats were especially comfy.The 6-cd changer and stereo head unit sounded awesome.

That said, I had a few questions....

First, the only thing that really bothered me was something that had been highlighted to death, the steering. The car had two miles on its odod, but when I tried to turn the car the steering seems stiff and unyielding. The car was pulling to the right a bit, so it might have needed an alignment.

In addition, when I accelerated onto the freeway the overdrive kicked in and the car reved up over 5K RPM'S, is that normal for this vehicle?

Also, how does relaibility, drivability, and overall value of the Protege compare with that of the Nissan Sentra?

Fianlly, with a sticker of $18,600, howe close to invoice ($17,100) do you think I can get?

Thanks for any thoughts you might have.

Bob

mdaffron · October 2001

But mine involved a toll gate instead of a deer!

I was on Richmond's Downtown Expressway, in a hurry as usual, and went through an Exact Change lane using my Smart Tag. Exact Change lanes have gates, of course, and usually I time it just right -- slowing down to 25 or so, so the gate has time to open and I slip right under it as it's raising.

Well, this morning the antenna didn't get the message from my Smart Tag transponder in my windshield, and the gate stayed down! I stood on the brakes (hey ABS fans, my non-ABS brakes didn't lock up) but I still hit the gate square in my windshield at about 15 mph!!!

Thank God for foam gate padding! The gate's arm was wrapped with tape-covered foam, and it has a breakaway feature too. I sent that gate swinging forward after it thudded into my windshield. I got to my deck and gave the A-pillars and windshield a good look, but fortunately all it did was scuff the dust on the windshield.

Boy was I relieved!

Meade

mdaffron · October 2001

... even though I drive a 5-speed now. Mazda's 4-speed automatic has a two-stage kickdown. If you press the accelerator just a little to accelerate, you'll kick down one gear. If, however, you floor it, it'll kick down TWO gears. You must've been going for the gusto and downshifted to second. Don't worry about hurting anything -- I've had my 5-speed right up to the redline several times. As Car and Driver said in its review of the Protege a few years ago, "This car loves to rev."

As for your steering, that sounds abnormal. I'd get them to take a look at that.

Meade

elec3 · October 2001

Bob: Meade is exactly right about the overdrive. It actually didn't kick in, it kicked off

The automatic in the Protege is fairly touchy (as is the gas pedal) and it takes a bit of practice and feel to know how much gas to give it for optimum acceleration. In a way it's more challenging than driving a manual because you don't have total control of the shifts. I always let my engine warm up for a few minutes (until it reaches about the middle of the temp gauge) before hard acceleration but it's very possible to redline the automatic. This engine develops most of its power at high RPMs so I wouldn't worry too much. 90mph in overdrive is right around 4000 RPMs and kicking out of overdrive puts you almost at redline if that gives you a better idea. The goal is to avoid that 2-gear downshift at lower speeds because you'll run up the RPMs without really going anywhere. On a related note, I can usually get up to 35-40 mph in first (I think) before I have to let off the gas so the automatic will shift.

As for the steering, the Protege does have somewhat stiff or heavy steering, especially in comparison to something like my last vehicle, a B2300 pickup which had a positively loose (to an unsafe degree) steering feel. The Protege does take a bit of muscling around corners but that stiff, heavy steering translates into precise handling. As I noted earlier, I had some trouble with my Pro5 in steering through tight S-curves. I imagine part of it was that 10 and 2 is not the ideal grip location for this and/or I need stronger shoulders

The pull to the right is unusual, my P5 drives straight as an arrow and only meanders as the road does or as my hands tell it to.

mdaffron · October 2001

My last vehicle, prior to my 2000 Protege ES 5-speed, was ALSO a B2300 pickup -- a '94. Piecacrap Ford product! Read my profile and you'll see what I mean. Did you have any trouble with yours?

Meade

pat · October 2001

I hope everyone has a safe trip and I'm sure you will all have a wonderful time. You'll take pictures and post them somewhere we can all see them, right?

Thanks again, Meade, for inviting me and I'm sorry I cannot make it - I have a ton of work I've got to get done this weekend for a Tuesday deadline. I hope I can make it next year.

Enjoy! We'll be looking for a full report here, of course. ;-)

Pat
Host
Sedans Message Board

mdaffron · October 2001

... for a FULL REPORT?! You sure you want one? Just kidding Pat -- you betcha we're going to have one!

In fact, one of the attendees, Jason Krotine from Pittsburgh, has already set up a page for it at his website:

http://www.krotine.com

It'll be under "Events." Nice car, BTW, Jason! Can't wait to meet it (and you) in person tomorrow! Anyway, check there next week.

Meade

newcar31 · October 2001

If I remember right, it was on this board that you guys were talking about krispy kremes. We don't have them here in MN. My Mom just got back from Phoenix and brought a whole box full of em back with her. They're pretty good.

By the way, what is it with east coasters and doughnuts? Whenever I go out to NJ/NY/CT I see tons of doughnut shops. Here in Mpls., you have to look for them.

speedypt · October 2001

Here's the good news...if we can get the interest..I can organize the event for Sat the 13th of October. I would even be willing to organize very quickly the event. If that's not a good time alternate date could be the 20th. Location would be centralized for all who respond.

Laurakat? Interested??????

Regards and hoping to hear soon!

Pete

pat · October 2001

are best right off of the conveyor out of the oven. Hot vs. cold are two entirely different experiences. A box of them transported from Phoenix to MN might be good, but be aware they aren't at their best! ;->

laurakat · October 2001

Pete, I'm interested! Keep me informed of the date so I can make sure I didn't commit to something else (my wife has a habbit of committing us to things and telling me at the last minute!). BTY, how far a drive is it from the Twin Cities to Chicago? I'm guessing around 7 to 8 hours.

newcar31 - I heard on the news a couple of nights ago that 2 Krispy Kreme stores will be coming to MN by, I believe, next summer. I think it was Kare 11 that had that story.

Mike

speedypt · October 2001

I would prefer the 13th, but the 20th is also just as "doable". 7 hrs from MN to Chi-town is about right.

As I remember, you live in Minesota? Heck of a drive for you isn't it? I did get an email from a lurker a while back (very nice person) that was also interested. There are two Pro-owners at my work too who may be interested as well, a new P5 owner and a 98 DX owner. I will talk to both of them as well...

C'Mon Chicago Protege owners....where are you?!?!?!?

Pete

protegenic · October 2001

Pat is right, there is no comparison to when they are right out of the oven! They just melt in your mouth. I am not much of a donut fan, so it is not like I ride around the block until I see the fresh light come on, but I hit it just right one time in Augusta and it bordered on a religous experience!

I hope all you MAPP-sters have a good time Saturday. Hopefully the weather holds so we don't have to read about the teardrop spots on your previously immaculate cars!

newcar31 · October 2001

They have a fresh light at the krispy kreme stores?

mdaffron · October 2001

... the Chicago-Region Admirers of Proteges.

CRAP.

HA HA HA HA HA!!!!!

Regarding Krispy Kremes ... There's a soft spot in the hearts of us Richmonders for their old Krispy Kreme store ... so much so that it created front-page headlines when they decided to tear down the old store (many, many years old -- one of the first Krispy Kreme stores) and rebuild it -- meaning the "hot doughnuts" sign would be off for several months. What would Richmond do?

Here's a description of what happened from the marketing firm, Carter Riley Thomas (CRT) that headed up the marketing for this HUGE event ... which is funny; the razing of a doughnut store doesn't often make the front page headlines in Richmond!

Enjoy!

http://www.crtpr.com/casehistories/krispy_kreme.html

Meade

protegenic · October 2001

Oh yeah, they usually have a sign or a light in the front window at Krispy Kremes that gets turned on when a fresh batch is pulled from the oven. This is usually accompanied by some type of accident as everyone tries to snatch 'em up while they are hot!

Speaking of hot, I was testing the waters this week to see if I could take advantage of some of the hot deals on new Protege's this week. They didn't have what I was looking for in a 2001, so I decided to stick tight with my 99 ES, even though I had all that body work done not too long ago. It seems to be fine though. Besides, I like the leather interior better than a sunroof anyways.

mazdafun · October 2001

I'd be interested, though I wouldn't make it this year.

mdaffron · October 2001

Before I leave for the day, I'd like to thank everyone at Edmunds for the T-shirts for our event. You sent us enough so everyone can take a shirt home to their spouse! Thank you very much!

The final tally? 13 cars and 20 people. That beats the pants off last year's 5 cars and 9 people. I've got the digital camera ready to go.

Now if the weather will just cooperate. It's hard to look out the window at the cloudless Richmond sky at 3:25 p.m. and know it's supposed to be rainy tomorrow morning. I hope they're wrong! Oh well, it's supposed to clear off by lunchtime anyway. Could be worse!

Everybody have a great weekend. The picnic will be old news by the time I get back here to my internet connection at work next Tuesday (we're off Monday for Columbus Day -- that's one benefit of having a state job). Please save some excitement for me -- I'll have a bunch of as-yet-unseen pics to share then!

ZOOM ZOOM ZOOM!

Meade

(Yeah zoomzoomzoom)

chikoo · October 2001

I was using castrol syntec 10w30 till now with mazda oem filter.

I just changed to AMSOIL 5w30 with mobil1 filter.....and got the thrill of my life....

As I pushed down the gas pedal as i usually do to ge upto 2500rpm, I see the tach at 4000 RPM......the engine is running like a sewing machine....It's become really hard to control the RPM since even the slighest push on the gas pedal sends the tach up to 3000+ rpm

This really feels like Zoooom Zooom....

have a good MAPP-II everybody.
I am envious that I even tho' i am so close, I am simply not able to come over...:(

protege_fan · October 2001

Wow...I didn't think that a filter and new oil would change the engine that much! That's wild.

chicagopro · October 2001

Speedypt...

Well, so you're going to try again? I'll e-mail you separately, but also posting here to encourage others.

Yes, the 13th would be fine with me...

Come on, midwesterners!

P.S. to Meade: I'm going to let this one slip by, because I know you're just so excited by your little event that you got carried away, but CRAP? Come on, now

newcar31 · October 2001

Why can't we have a national Protege picnic? We could call it P.O.O.P. (Protege Owners Only Picnic) They also have a modified Honda club in Tennesee with a similiar acronym. It's called Super Hondas In Tennesee.

chicagopro · October 2001

Are we sure we're old enough to have driver's licenses?

newcar31 · October 2001

Ha ha ha ha!! Meade started it.

twistinmelon · October 2001

Chicago Area Chrysler Association

I feel shame.

twist

tomciviletti · October 2001

Impressive to see how well the car mags like the mp3 handling. Note that according to Tirerack, the dunlop 9000's are not a top 'max performance' tire. Imagine what the mp3 would do on bridgestone potenza so3's.

Mazda Protegé

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