Mazda Protege Basic Maintenance Questions

chikoo · March 2001

asked my permission to put on his decal...which I promptly refused. then he asked my permission to have the dealer name on the license plate plastic frame...which I agreed.

maltb · March 2001

Here in CA you can always spot an out of state car by a dealer nameplate on the car. Dealers out here wouldn't dare place such unsightly tags on cars. Maybe that's why California cars are so clean!

chikoo · March 2001

since you have so many connections, please try and find out something more about the Airconditioner jolt at idle speeds.

Why does it do so?

I have noticed that it does not do it when you start the a/c but does it if you have the a/c on for about 15 minutes or so. Like Jerry said, all the ES do it.

My question is WHY?

It is so annoying.

Would appreciate your efforts in this matter.

jstandefer · March 2001

Where in California are you?

maltb · March 2001

When the A/C compressor kicks in, the computer speeds up the idle so that the engine can handle the increased load. Once the A/C system is at full pressure, the compressor begins to cycle on and off as needed, depending on how much freon is being used to cool the evaporator.

What could be happening is that when the compressor disengages, the engine speed goes even higher momentarily before the computer can correct for decreased load.

If it is really noticeable, have the dealer inspect it, but this may just be a characteristic of the car. The only parts involved in this system are the PCM(computer) and the IAC(idle air control) valve, but there would most likely be other issues if either on failed.

maltb · March 2001

I think you know that I am in Irvine.

jstandefer · March 2001

:-)

chikoo · March 2001

it it not the speed. I can appreciate what you are trying to say. This one is a physical jolt. Dealer says it's normal. Mazda says it's normal.

WHY?

maltb · March 2001

Is it felt when the car is sittling still in neutral?

jstandefer · March 2001

The jolt is something I have worried about for over two years of ownership now. When you first switch on the AC, the idle jumps and the compressor kicks on very smoothly. However, after about ten minutes, the jolt becomes extremely apparant when the compressor kicks on. It is only noticed at idle. My car is a 5-spd, so the car is either in neutral or the clutch is disengaged while at idle. However, I have noticed it on many of the automatics, either in drive or in neutral.

The jolt feels like someone has just lightly rear-ended you. It's not just a simple jerk like you feel in other cars, but it seems that if you didn't have a foot on the brake, it would cause the car to roll forward slightly. I have watched the engine while it does this, and the engine physically torques on its mounts. You can see the engine twist and even the open hood shakes.

I've had it checked by the dealer, and they said it is normal. Like I've said before, all of the ES's I have driven, sold, or checked-in do this. I have actually lost a few sales because of this.

Another problem I have noticed is the idle. Occasionally (once a month), the idle becomes really rough and you can see the tach needle bouncing up and down. I have revved the engine in hopes that it will correct itself when it idles down, but it doesn't. It seems the only way to correct this is to turn off the engine and restart it. Once I do this, everything goes back to normal. I knew I smelled trouble when I saw that the ECM is produced by Intel, but then again, I'm a Mac fan...

chikoo · March 2001

even Mazda North America assurance told me this.

No Problem.. It's normal.

The big question for me is WHY?

(once I know the why...the solution for that would be also available...)

jstandefer · March 2001

I remember having a similar problem on my 1991 Ford Escort GT. The 1991-1995 Escorts were built on the Protege chassis, but used Ford engines except for the GT. The GT's used Mazda's wonderful 1.8L DOHC based on the Miata's engine (basically the same engine used on the 1990-1993 Protege LX, and the 1994-1998 Protege ES). I will have to say that Miata-based engine was much smoother (particularly in the upper rev range) than the 626-based 1.8L used on the '99-'00. Anyways, I had a similar jolt (not this extreme, but still unnerving) in that car.

I haven't taken a close look at the compressor pulley, but I would imagine it is spring-loaded for smooth engagement much like a clutch disc is. Perhaps the spring pressure is too hard for idle speeds, as its engagement is hardly noticable at any engine speed about idle.

the_big_h · March 2001

someone apparently stole the plastic covers that fill the space where the OEM foglights would be off of my 00 ES! Now my front bumper has 2 big holes right next to the radiator opening in the middle . I have no idea when it was stolen, probably a few days before I saw it Saturday morning. My question is, WHY THE HECK WOULD ANYBODY STEAL 2 PIECES OF USELESS PLASTIC???

ughh, not mad, just annoyed. And now that the covers are gone, I'm considering installing the OEM foglights, anybody know a dealership around DC/MD/VA area that does it cheap?

chikoo · March 2001

my logic says that the a/c charge after the a/c is running about 10 minutes or more is more than what the engine can handle at idle speeds. Hence the jolt. Reason:

The engine idle is based on feedback system. it does not think in future. so the moment it senses the load, the speed goes up...but alas...we already felt the jolt.

How's my theory?

nikecar · March 2001

maybe someone stole his, so you are the first unlucky fella he sees with the Protege? stinks.. now go buy some fogs to fill in the space!!!

chikoo · March 2001

so the question is;

does not the low/high pressure sensors check the a/c charge pressure before engaging the clutch?

or maybe there are no low/high pressure sensors in the PRO ES.

Maybe it just cycles every 18 seconds...no matter what the pressures are.

sfrat · March 2001

Sounds like a good excuse/justification to get the foglights without feeling guilty about spending the money on something frivoulous. You just CAN'T leave that big, gaping hole as it is. :-)

Steve

maltb · March 2001

All A/C systems use high/low pressure switches.

I don't know what to tell you about the jolt. It's hard enough for a tech to diagnose the thing when they are looking at car, much less for a guy who sits behind a desk and has not gotten his hands dirty on a regular basis for a few years now. If I get a good answer, I'll keep you posted.

digidave · March 2001

New item of notice: Has anyone come across a whistling sound (as in an air seal leak) that comes from the engine compartment at highway speeds?

First noticed it the other day and thought it was coming from the sunroof or perhaps the antenna mast. However, I'm able to reproduce the sound at will when on the highway at 3400 RPM (in top gear). Releasing gas pedal pressure diminishes the whistle, increasing pressure brings it back at a very discernable pitch (mostly at 3400 rpm). Almost sounds like a turbo charger but not as pleasing.

Today I tried to reproduce the whistle at lower speeds (in lower gear by turning overdrive off) and at same rpm and sure enough it's there too but not as pronounced.

Any ideas?

Dave

btw, vehicle is an '01 Protegé ES Automatic

chikoo · March 2001

I understand your problem...but you own a DX, if I remember correctly. Does it not jolt when a/c engages? (after 10 minutes or more of a/c running? )

I know it's not only me, Jerry also confirms this.

please let us know if it is a pressure switch problem...a wrong one bieng specified may cause it.

chikoo · March 2001

if I am not mistaken is the gears whining...nothing to worry about...to me it's time to start worrying when the whining stops

vocus · March 2001

My 1999 DX that I used to have had the high-pitched whistle in the engine around idle speed, and my 2001 does it as well. I have no idea what it is, but it never caused me problems in the 37,400 miles I had the DX, so it doesn't really bother me.

theparallax · March 2001

My car makes some gear whining noise when it starts up, and I can hear it when I'm driving around at low speeds. I dont think it's anything harmful though.

maltb · March 2001

I haven't noticed it, but I'll let it run in the driveway sometime and see if it does it. We've been having such good weather that I haven't used the AC/Defrost in a while.

jstandefer · March 2001

The only whistle sound I've heard in mine is when it gets up to about 5,500rpm. Otherwise, mine just purrs at idle, growls when revved, and roars when you step on it.

I have heard whistling sounds generated by the speakers at certain rpm's in other vehicles (not Pro's). A good noise filter near the radio typically takes care of this...

vocus · March 2001

I occasionally hear it in my 2001 ES at VERY light throttle (probably about 1000 rpm or so), but never any other time. I also used to hear it in my DX at about the same rpm (no tach, so not sure).

I called the body shop and I get my car back today!!

I am sooo happy!!!

Now, watch them call and say they have to keep it for some stupid reason again. I will cry.

jstandefer · March 2001

I hope you get your ES back today! It's actually a good thing that they took their time with it. I hear the Black Mica is hard to match. Good luck!

chikoo · March 2001

actually take it out for a ride of 15 minutes or more with the a/c on. then stop and put the car in idle or better still keep the gear in 'D' (auto) and just press on the brakes and wait for the a/c compressor to engage.

you will see what I am trying to convey.

IF you don't observe the jolt in the DX, then something is wrong with the design of the a/c system of the ES.

maltb · March 2001

If I can remember to do it, I'll report back tomorrow.

vocus · March 2001

They said I am definitely going to get the car back tomorrow. It shouldn't be a hard match though, because I took it right to a Mazda repair shop. I wanted it to be perfect! It was more expensive, but I don't care.

conheady · March 2001

I've notice that too. Always check the rear-view at stop lights to check and see who's bumpin' me. Now I'm just used to it. It's really not that much of a big deal. I've notice it with my dad's escort too. At least the AC is a lot quieter than other compacts.

chikoo · March 2001

after you have travelled 1 hr+ on the freeway in the summer with your a/c on and stop at a gas station..

the car is jumping around as if somebody is kicking it .....

digidave · March 2001

Today I reconfirmed the whistle / whining sound - it's definitely present beginning at 3200 rpm (about 72 mph) and increases in both resonance and intensity through 3450 rpm (about 78 mph). Again, once it's audible, I can literally adjust it by how much gas pedal is applied or reduced, making it stronger or softer. It disappears after about 3500 rpm (about 80 mph) or at least it's inaudible at that point. Don't cruise much above that speed, but I'm afraid this will be an issue for me since the average cruising speed on local highways is right between where the noise occurs (yes, the speed limit is 65 but that's the average in the right lane, and no one ever sees a Protogé in the right lane now do they? :-)

chikoo: don't think it's associated with the gearing, though it may be possible.

theparallax: definitely not happening at low speeds or rpms, only on the highway!

vocus: so you too have heard it? Good to know I'm not imagining it! (ps - hope the car is returned better than new!)

jstandefer: don't think the sound may be generated from the speakers (audio system is turned off) but I'll pay them more attention next time I experience (test) it - thanks.

theparallax · March 2001

I guess I must be thinking of something else then!

maltb · March 2001

Chikoo, I checked for the jolt yesterday and never got much of a bump. I noticed that there is more of a jolt when the radiator fan is already running and then the compressor and A/C fan kick in. I think it just an issue of a smaller 4cyl. under increasing loads at idle.

Others:
The whine seems to be a trans characteristic that the '99 and later Proteges come with at no extra charge. I believe it's related to the final drive/differential. There was a production change later in '99 but I think it only reduced the noise slightly.

sfrat · March 2001

If you were to put the car in neutral, does it still jolt?

chikoo · March 2001

just for our mental sake and the spirit of experimenting...drive to your work with the a/c on(i guess maybe half-hour or so, at least) and then once in your company's parking lot, check out the jolt.

by the way, your statement "I think it just an issue of a smaller 4cyl. under increasing loads at idle." does not apply to similiar or less powerful corolla or a civic. Why?

vocus · March 2001

I was sitting in the parking lot during lunch, and my car was idling for about 15 minutes or so. I turned on the AC after about 5 or so, because it got hot (car is black and charcoal inside). I did notice a little rougher idle, but no kicks or anything of that sort.

chikoo · March 2001

corrected this a/c problem in the 2001 model.

what say maltb,jstandefer?

Why don't you guys talk to Mazda and get a TSB published?

maltb · March 2001

Do you know anybody who could help Chikoo?

Chikoo:
Your best bet is to make a big stink with the dealer and Mazda customer assistance(800-222-5500). Be persistent and convince the dealer that they call Mazda technical assistance on this issue. Your best bet would have been to do all this when the vehicle was a little newer and the threat of lemon law worked in your favor.

Good luck to you!

vocus · March 2001

Not sure. I know the AC was running for like 5-10 minutes, and the car was idling the entire time in Park. But there was no kick or anything when it was on, just a little tick when the compressor first came on. That's it.

chikoo · March 2001

I don't think it is only me who has this problem.
all 1999-2000 ES (and their owners) have this problem...which is confirmed by none other than Jerry.

So Jerry, what do you say?

and vocus, try it for a longer period of time and let us know the result.

vocus · March 2001

I will probably turn on the AC in the car on the way home from work if it's hot in there. It might be, because the car's been parked in the sun all day long. We shall see.

jstandefer · March 2001

The rather jolting engagement of the AC compressor is not a constant thing, but it does rear its ugly head from time to time. I really haven't had a reason to have the AC on in the past few months, but when I do (usually to defrost the interior at night) I notice it. I have had customers I sold Protege's to that have mentioned it as well.

I know a few of the Mazda Master Technicians at the dealership. Let me give them a call and see if they know anything about it. I'll also talk to one of the two service managers as well.

jstandefer · March 2001

I just got off the phone with my personal service advisor as the dealership and he asked one of the master techs and one of the service managers (luckily they were all having a meeting in his office when I called). There has not been a TSB released on it, but they have all had customers complain about it.

The good majority of the complaints have come from '99-'00 ES owners, with just a sprinkling of DX and LX owners. Their explanation of it: it is really hard to mask the compressor engagment on small 4-cyl engines. However, they could not explain why it is so jolting on the 1.8L and not the 1.6L. It's just a characteristic of that AC system and engine, I was told at the end. They also said they haven't seen frequent AC failures with the 1.8L.

I would imagine it would have to be further investigated by Mazda corporate or regional offices. Let me talk to the service manager and see when a Mazda rep will be at the dealership next (about twice a month). I'll ask them about it.

chikoo · March 2001

is it possible that the A/c is more powerful in the ES than in the DX/LX?
or the min. pressure at which the compressor engages is much higher than what the engine can take?

maltb · March 2001

The A/C on the 99-00 ES was the only factory air on the Protege, the others had port or dealer installed systems that came from domestic suppliers. For 2001, all Protege A/C is factory installed.

So to answer your question in a roundabout way, yes the A/C on the ES is different for your model year. However, I'd take the factory system over the port installed.

chikoo · March 2001

I got to hand it to you. you have the info but it takes real skill and effort from us to get it from you. you make us work hard for it ...really.

anyway, factory installed or not, my question was is it more powerful in the ES(larger capacity) than in DX/LX?

Is that the reason that the engine jolts as the a/c pressure charge is more than what the engine can handle at idle (700-750 rpm) ?

vocus · March 2001

I engaged the compressor yesterday at a stop light, with the car in drive, and the idle speed did not change. I did not leave it on long enough to see if it kicked (too cold). I did notice, however, that it makes the engine vibrate when idling with the AC on.

maltb · March 2001

Sometimes we would like to hold the world in our hands...

I don't have the engineering specs on either system, but I would imagine that both were designed to meet the same needs. I think the ES compressor is made by Denso and the LX/DX is a Sanden unit. Other than that, research into loads, capacities and efficiencies would be a full time job and not my area expertise.

Mazda Protege Basic Maintenance Questions

Comments

Helpful Tools

Most popular vehicles