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Jaguar XJ-Series

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Comments

  • blckislandguyblckislandguy Member Posts: 1,150
    Interestingly, no mileage was quoted (nor buyout figure, etc.). I thought that this was now required in all ads. It did say to see www.Jaguarusa.com for complete details. Slight correction: the ad was not in the WSJ but in Saturday's Boston Globe.
  • christchurchchristchurch Member Posts: 125
    A questions came up the other day among us Jag owners.

    The discussion centered on the following:

    Is it wise to switch to a synthetic in older XJ 6 and XJ8 engines as the synthetics are touted as having longer life and better lubrication qualities ?

    There were conflicting opinions on this nor did anyone know if there an "official" Jaguar position?

    Anyone have an expert opinion / experience ?

    Christchurch
  • euphoniumeuphonium Member Posts: 3,425
    Not in a Jag, but experience as follows:

    1966 Mustang 289, 130,000 miles & owned since '67 finally contained Mobil 1 two years ago and no problems, leaks, or any kind of negative results.

    The myth it would cause leaking prevented me from trying it for many years, but after using it in our other cars for over 20 years I gave it a try. The Stang has never run smoother, quieter, & stronger.

    Mobil 1 is the one. :)
  • blckislandguyblckislandguy Member Posts: 1,150
    I had a look recently at the build your own Jag section of the Ford.com web site. Amazingly, I found that the Jag XJ options are very reasonable compared to the Germans. A complete cold weather package (3 stage heated front AND rear seats, heated wood wheel and heated windshield) is $1300 or so. Thats a fantastic price on a package that anyone living north of Washington, DC should snap up. Kind of makes the XJ into a real winter car. Interestingly, many manufacturers don't even offer heated back seats any more (e.g., Saab) or you can't get them with a heated wheel (e.g., Porsche) let alone a heated wood wheel. Another option reasonable priced were the zenon lights at $600.

    These prices are great. For about 2K you could set up the car with a great cold weather package and zenons and be in complete comfort and safety come winter. Take a look at the Porsche option pricing some day for comparison. Furthermore, as I remember the option price sheet, Jag does not bang you for a $700 upcharge if you prefer metallic paint. Porsche, Volvo, LR, and others all get you on the paint.

    The heated windshield is interesting. I think that Land Rover was the first to offer this and now it has migrated over to Jag. Who would have thought that Jag would benefit from the association?

    All in all Jag offers great JD Power scores, good reliability, an EE degree is not required to turn the radio on, option pricing that can't be beat, and a 0-60 in 6.5 seconds. Why aren't these things selling?
  • euphoniumeuphonium Member Posts: 3,425
    Why aren't these things selling?

    Lack of dealerships contributes to their not selling. There is only one dealer in OR & he doesn't market agressively due to the monopolistic situation. There are two locations to buy Jags in Puget Sound & they are under the same ownership.
    Yakima and Spokane have dealerships, but so far from all the rest, none wheel and deal.

    How numerous are Jag dealers near your location?
  • bhill2bhill2 Member Posts: 2,466
    There are 3 or so in the San Francisco area, so you could drive down and deal. That would give you an opportunity to drive your new baby back. As a Jag owner, I gotta tell you that's not a bad thing.

    2009 BMW 335i, 2003 Corvette cnv. (RIP 2001 Jaguar XK8 cnv and 1985 MB 380SE [the best of the lot])

  • xkssxkss Member Posts: 722
    I have driven a 2004 Jaguar XJR and loved it.

    It is NOT vulgar. I do find the new BMW 7 series to be vulgar when compared to the 1995-2001 7 series.

    image
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    We have only 1 dealer in Vegas, could be the only one in Nevada. Same company as the Ford dealer, but a unique and very nice dealership. They're pretty decent to deal with, also sell Porches.

    XKSS - I'm trying to decide between an XJ8 and a Q-45. Like them both a lot. Sort of a toss up at the moment. What thoughts would you have for me?
  • xkssxkss Member Posts: 722
    New XJ8 vs new Q45?

    Well, the G45 costs slightly less, but I think the XJ8 has a lot more style. I find the aluminum of the new XJ to be interesting/cool while the Q45 strikes me as nice, but without the panache of the XJ8. Then there is the XJR and Super V8...

    I have driven a 2004 XJR and loved it. The view of the curvaceous hood is very nice. An all-leather steering wheel is available for the XJ as accessory. An "uprated braking system with a bigger disc and calliper assembly" comes standard on the 2006 XJ, but the press release didn't describe it further.

    The 2006 XJ also has "acoustic laminated glass" for more refinement.
  • wbreaux1wbreaux1 Member Posts: 55
    Acoustic laminated glass?? I assume that makes the interior quieter? Are there any other changes coming in the 2006 model that are notworthy?
  • xkssxkss Member Posts: 722
    It has a Tire Pressure Monitoring System, two new wheels, and two new exterior colors.

    The new glass does make the interior quieter.
  • blckislandguyblckislandguy Member Posts: 1,150
    When Ford bought Jag, Volvo, Aston-Martin, etc. they lumped them (and L-M too!) into a division called the Premium Automotive Group and based it in London. There have been some changes (e.g., the head of PAG left to go off and sell industrial gas for the Linde Corp) and it may not even be called PAG anymore.

    But it seems like Jag is benefiting. The heated windshield Jag offers looks like it migrated over from Rover. The new alu body which is held together with high tech adhesives I think was technology first introduced by Aston on the Vanquish.

    With synergies such as these and the dramatice world wide expansion of the upper middle class, its puzzling why Ford can't make money on these brands.
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    Well, it's volumes, costs or management, isn't it? Product is definitely improving all the time.

    XKSS - yes new ones. The future of the Q is uncertain according to my dealer here, but I am quite taken with the car. Nissan built stuff is about the only foreign manufacturer that makes cars that seem to fit me like my Lincolns do. I agree, the XJ would have more panache, the Q has never been a great seller in the current style, and even the salesman said, "We don't sell many of these" - a great thing to push em out the door, huh? No question, Jag is higher tech at the moment. More research will be done.
  • carguy2613carguy2613 Member Posts: 2
    Hi,
    Thinking about purchasing a Super V8 Portfolio, but can't find pricing anywhere. We don't want to spend over $100,000, which I suspect might be the case. Any help would be greatly appreciated!
  • blckislandguyblckislandguy Member Posts: 1,150
    My first reaction is why? My understanding is that the SuperV8 is a VandePlas with the XJR engine but without any of the other R attributes: suspension, wheels, brakes, short wheelbase, etc. etc.

    Seems to me that if you want the R performance (a one second reduction in 0-60 time from the superlative 0-60 in 6 seconds plus better handling, R badging, tires, brakes, wheels, etc.) one should buy a real R with the short wheelbase. If you want supreme long wheel base luxury and a comfortable ride, buy the Vandeplas. Either one is roughly 74K . (An '04 used R right now is less than 50K).
  • nedc2nedc2 Member Posts: 192
    The SuperV8 has all the nice Jaguar XJR bits, suspension, Brembo brakes, wheels, tires, &c. along with the Vanden Plas' long wheelbase, tray tables, lambswool carpeting... It's like getting both in one package. with just about every option available.... The only thing the Super loses to the R is a few feet of turning radius----and the additional hit to you bank account.
  • carguy2613carguy2613 Member Posts: 2
    Call me crazy, but it's just one of those things, almost like (I'm ashamed to say) a status symbol? We don't do this often, but I wanted to treat myself, although we might just settle for a Super V8.
  • xkssxkss Member Posts: 722
    The Jaguar Super V8 has the XJR's 4.2 liter supercharged 390 hp V-8, Brembo brakes, different suspension (check the link), and lots of other stuff.

    aluminum XJ

    The new Super V8 Portfolio will likely cost over $100,000. The press release says it has 400 hp (ten more), 20 inch wheels, (aluminum) side vents, a very nice sound system, special paint colors, and other stuff.
  • blckislandguyblckislandguy Member Posts: 1,150
    XKSS, right you are are. The SuperV8 is more than just the blower engine dropped into a Vandeplas.

    Incidentally, I think in '03 Jag offerred an XJ "sports" edition that was a short wheelbase XJ with, I think, XJR wheels. Were there any other XJR goodies included on this model, e.g., larger antiroll bars, better brakes, etc?

    I think Jag could sell a significant number of XJs if they had all the XJR goodies except for the blower.In other words, the normally aspirated engine with the XJR suspension/wheels. Heck, you can get a BMW 5 Series with the small engine with the active steering and sports suspension. There must be a some people out there (myself included) who would pay up for the suspension goodies but not want the liability of a blower.
  • xkssxkss Member Posts: 722
    Yes, the 2003 XJR was available in North America with the R1 package which included very nice 18 inch (same size) BBS wheels, Brembo brakes (normal 98-03 XJRs didn't have them), and perhaps something else...

    The R1 package was available in Europe. A sport package was available for the XJ8 here. Including to what you have already said, it may have had different interior and/or exterior trim. I think they have the 1998 style XJR wheels.
  • blckislandguyblckislandguy Member Posts: 1,150
    XKSS, help me out a little: Did the '03 XJ "sports edition" have anything beyond fancy tires/wheels? Larger antiroll bars?

    I think of you as the resident expert, so let me ask another question. What are your thoughts on the long term reliability/maintainabliltiy of an '04 XJR? They seem to command a real world premium of about 8K over the standard "04 XJ. This premium seems to be the same as that of a Vandeplas over a standard '04 XJ. The latter (Vandeplas vs. standard XJ8) premium seems a bit stiff for what you get.

    Now to spend 8K more and get the XJR.....
  • jescuejescue Member Posts: 521
    As far as I can remember the XJ Sport was simply an appearance package to give the look of an XJR.I have sold many S-Type Rs and XJRs,and have seen zero reliability problems in the supercharged engines.My money would go to the XJR any day over an 04 VDP.Since all 04s were short wheelbase the VDP was really not worth the premium.The XJR also gives you more-such as adaptive cruise as standard equipment.
  • blckislandguyblckislandguy Member Posts: 1,150
    I'm (halfway) looking to buy a a used '04 XJ sedan. When you look at Edmunds.com for my zip code they quote TMV for a Private party sale for an XJR at 53K, an XJ VP at 43K and a plain XJ at 38K. While the latter spread seems OK, isn't their difference of 15K between an XJR and an XJ greater than what is was when new? If you look at cars.com one sees much lower spreads among models and lower asking prices.

    On a related note, it seems that Jag is on a roll. While I can't prove it, I get the same feeling about Jag that I had in the early 80's with BMW: it is poised to really set some sales records. New since '04 trouble free designs, new variants coming out regularly (e.g., the SuperV8, the R series being extended to all models), great pricing, perhaps the best CPO program extant-does anyone else offer 6 years and 100,000 miles?, etc. Additonally the product seems to be nicely differentiated from the competition. Jag is not offerring another variant of a uber German sedan or , like Volvo with its R Series, a variant of the 5 Series.

    Now if the resale would improve everyone would be happy (except for the contrarians like me who see 40K for an '04 XJ with low miles as a real steal.)
  • xkssxkss Member Posts: 722
    The new 2007 aluminum Jaguar XK will help Jaguar cut costs. It will be a lot more fun to drive than the current XK8. They need to make an aluminum S-Type.
  • tbudowtbudow Member Posts: 6
    I am considering purchasing an XJ8 of one of these model years of 60K to 90K miles. Possibly a VP. We live on a Ranch with caliche roads and I want something enjoyable to drive into town, now and then, over an Excursion. We generally drive 150 miles each time we drive, with only 11 of those miles being the rougher (but not too rough) roads. Because we live so far out, we need something really dependable and with little difficulty of getting fixed.

    We have a Ford dealership in town, but nothing higher end than that. The closest Jag dealer is 100 miles away.

    Any recurring problems in these years that we should be concerned with? Is the maintenance very high-end? Would you allow a regular Ford Dealership to maintain one of these models? Any guidance you can give would be helpful. I have never owned a Jag before, just like the looks and these model years with this mileage is very affordable.
  • euphoniumeuphonium Member Posts: 3,425
    90k on an XJ8 100 miles from a Jag dealer is like contemplating jumping out of an airplane using only an umbrella as a chute. Join AAA Plus if you buy it. (Their Towing privilege exceeds 50 miles) :(
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    Yeah, but only 4 times a year......
  • blckislandguyblckislandguy Member Posts: 1,150
    Funny post. While this might not be the best car for this guy, what really is he looking at? I had the impression that the four cam (!) V8 and transmission were bullet proof.
  • euphoniumeuphonium Member Posts: 3,425
    Is that one of the reasons you have a Benz500 on order?

    Curious to know why you swam across the channel as I've had the impression you have been impressed with Jags and Town Cars. :)
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    I love to RENT Town Cars - but they have lost their luxury, and are clearly a livery and fleet car now. I'm not impressed with their A/C, an issue where I live, and although I'm still impressed with them for the money, I want more luxury than they now provide. The Jag I do like in many ways, the way it drives, the comfort and all. I would still consider one, and if things don't work out with the Benz, it may happen. The Benz seems just a little bit easier for me to get out of, but ....we'll see. I jumped, as you say, because my dealer put me in a 500 for a week long test drive, and I liked it.
  • euphoniumeuphonium Member Posts: 3,425
    Congratulations! Happy for you! It's a great car! :)

    May you drive on smooth highways with a bugless windshield. ;)
  • edkunkeledkunkel Member Posts: 26
    It is my understanding that they will pretty much be importing only L length bodies to the states.

    I have figured out that Jag has been using Volvo Whips seat technology at least since last year on the S types and up, it seems. This is why the S-Type is one of the few cars along with Volvo that pass the new rear crash test by the Insurance Institute.

    So, it seems that Jag is now as safe as Volvo. To me, safety is the most important things, since all most everybody dies by car accidents, at least until they are old.

    And the rear crash is kind of the last thing to be worked out by the car companies. No mercedes, bmws, are really safe vis a vis whiplash-- now granted, they each have new systems, but they have not been tested.

    HOWEVER, here is my question: I have NO IDEA what a Jaguar XJ is really worth. They still depreciate like a falling stone! 2 years old and they lose half their value ....

    Quite a quandry. As far as I am concerned, there are NO new safe cars.

    I would like to go in and buy a new 2006 XJ8 today. But I don' think its worth more than 50k, because it will be worth barely more than 40k in a few months.
  • edkunkeledkunkel Member Posts: 26
    And then there is the dang Portfolio

    Oh, it seems that the Toyota/Lexus rear crash system/seats breaks your neck worse than nothing, if I am reading the data right.

    With BMW you have to buy an unproven neck air bag in the expensive comfort seats: thats all you need is another pyrotechnic device blowing up behind your head.

    The new Mercedes NeckPro looks OK, they give you a stupid ratchet wrench to reset it, if you are still ambulatory.

    If you buy I Volvo S80, the really only safe car in the world, well they have emasculated that with a 2.5 liter engine. I have an older one -- I guess everyone is waiting for the 07, when there may be some cars again.

    But all this blah, blah about the 07s. It is usually stupid to by ANY car the first production year, wheels fall off, all kinds of nightmares.

    So, if you want to buy a nice car, not some six figure thing, but a nice car. What are you left with??

    I think its the 06 XJ8. But who needs the long wheel base. Get an SUV! And like I said, its worth 50K, and I mean loaded with bluetooth and Nav, etc.

    I did see one of those Portfolio editions at the dealer. Nice suede, or alacantara or something in it. Its nice, but it too will be worth half before the paint cures. And they wanted 125k for it. Well, I carry a nice Coach Leather Portfolio at work, I am sure it cost over a hundred dollars, quite extravagant really.

    But that is about all that Jag Portfolio is worth above a standard XJ. At least it has Xenons that turn, which half the cars in the world have already for under 50k.

    And of course Tucker invented that for our grandfathers.
  • blckislandguyblckislandguy Member Posts: 1,150
    Ed, are you saying that the new style XJ sedan has seats with Volvo safety technology?

    While I don't agree with you that "almost everybody dies by car accidents.." until old age gets them, safety is important. Its very important if you want to avoid a life long disability or impediment. Contrary to what the whole life guys push, one has a greater chance of being disabled than dying as a middle aged adult.
  • edkunkeledkunkel Member Posts: 26
    Yes, apparently so. The S-type passes the rear crash test, with the Volvos, the Saabs and a very few scattered cars. No Mercedes, BMWs for example.

    Yes, who wants to be disabled in a car wreck. But for the first half of life and beyond, most people die by accidents, and most of these are car accidents.

    And that fact that the Insurance Institute only gives GOOD ratings to a couple cars (for rear crashes) is quite shocking.

    I have been in a couple significant accidents, each time hit by someone else. To me it almost seems silly to drive something that doesn't get the highest ratings all around.

    In the case of the Jags, I am deducing, I guess. Since the S-type passes, and since they claim the XJs have the same (Volvo Whips) technology, maybe that is good enough.

    Or maybe the whole world should wait for the 07 Volvo S80.
  • tbudowtbudow Member Posts: 6
    I posted an earlier message about advice in buying older model XJ8's. I have now refined my search and am interested in the foregoing model years. I heard somewhere along the way that 1999's had a recall issue and I cannot now remember what it was. Any one have an idea what it was?

    Also, for high mileage XJ8's, 70-90k miles, any suggestions on service warranty companies and the contracts. Any that are more reliable and/or affordable than others?
    Many thanks
  • blckislandguyblckislandguy Member Posts: 1,150
    Ed, right. If you are going to die before old age it is because of an "accident". My (small) point was though that we have a far greater chance of disability than death until we reach old age. For that reason, as you say we should be in safe cars.

    If anyone feels the need to buy insurance though, it really should be for disability insurance not life insurance and with the money you save buy a Volvo/Saab/etc.

    Looks like Ford is really intergrating their Premium group technologies. We see above that the Volvo seats are now in Jag, this month's Top Gear reports that the new Aston Martin Vantage borrows its NAV from Volvo and the engine from Jag, Jag now offers the heated windshield that Land Rover has long offerred, etc. Nothing wrong with this. Clearly, even disregarding Aston Martin, Jag, and LR, Ford has a better product line up than GM. Better engines, rack & pinion steering, nicer interiors, etc. etc.
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    I certainly agree with you there....GM is 10 years behind in their technology on most models.
  • xkssxkss Member Posts: 722
    Volvo helpeed Aston Martin with the safety of the new V8 Vantage, but who wouldn't want Volvo's help with safety?

    The new 2006 Aston Martin V8 Vantage uses a Jaguar 4.2 liter V-8, but the cylinder block, cylinder heads, crankshaft, connecting rods, pistons, camshafts, inlet and exhaust manifolds, lubrication system and engine management are all unique to the 4.3 V-8 used in the new Aston. It also has dry-sump lubrication.

    Jaguar's V-8 first came out with 4.0 liters in the 1997 XK8. It was heavily revised a couple years ago (now with 4.2 liters).

    check the link

    Jaguar's AJ-V8
  • nancypdnancypd Member Posts: 1
    Test drove a 2005 Vanden Plas and this beautiful car's Navigational System didn't always work properly along with the "Bluetooth" option. The practical side of me cannot justify buying a car with faulty options (which I need) but would consider buying one if the price was greatly reduced. Since Jag's depreciate so much what do you think the Vanden PLas will be selling for in early 2006?
  • edkunkeledkunkel Member Posts: 26
    Look at what the 2004s go for now and extrapolate. Look at cars.com or kbb.com or here at edmunds.
  • fennfenn Member Posts: 197
    I have 2004 "new generation" aluminum XJR.

    Here is my honest impression of this car after driving it about 47,000 miles....

    This car is fast, drives wonderfully and gets incredible fuel economy. That is the good news.

    The bad news is that my 2004 XJR has been a problem from the start. The problems with my car are numerous and recurring. Every system from cruise control, to locks, to power accessories, to steering gear, to differential, to suspension, have had problems. Even the interior leather trim has de-laminated. I have had loaner cars out from the dealership for overnight and long stays at the dealership for approximately 30 days over the past two years!

    They claim that mine is the one bad example, but Jaguar has not taken any effort to help me. They have stuck me with a 78,000 dollar piece of unreliable garbage.

    Email me if you have any questions. This is not an exaggeration. These cars are really poorly built and unreliable. This is really a horribly built vehicle.
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    I'm not arguing with you about your car. But it sounds like a bad case of "new model first year glitches" in your case. I've not ever heard of another XJ being such a lemon.
  • xkssxkss Member Posts: 722
    I agree with nvbanker on this one. I've chatted with numverous XJ owners and they like their cars.
  • edkunkeledkunkel Member Posts: 26
    It seems that even if you got a below invoice deal, on an 06, that you would always still get killed by depreciation.

    The 06 XJ seems like a great 50 thousand dollar car.
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    Which is why I'd be in the market for an 05, most likely.
  • fennfenn Member Posts: 197
    I know about first year issues with a new model, but my problems go way beyond those things..

    I am realistic. To have a few electrical glitches and adjustments is not beyond the realm of expectations with a new model car, but to have so many other major issues is quite different. I have to say that I have had everything from a bad rear end differential, to inoperative electrical systems, to inoperative door locks, to a bad rack and pinion steering rack, to a peeling/de-laminated leather on the interior, and so,so, many other things, is very hard to stomach. Many of these seem to be recurring issues -- and I still get error messages galore from the car's message center. After at least 20 visits to the dealer, and having driven their loaner cars for a total of over 30 days in the last two years, it gets to be a bit crazy...Yikes!.

    Hey, I wanted to love this car. It really has many virtues, but it is badly flawed in its execution. Maybe mine is a lemon, but I am not alone. I know two other XJR owners that have complaints too. One of them was smart enough to retain legal counsel and got out of it under California Lemon Law, but I was a sucker and lived with it for too long to get this relief under the normal Lemon Law statute. By the way, he is now driving a Maserati Quattroporte, which he says is much more solid and reliable....

    So, I agree that the first year vehicle glitches are something to acknowledge, but my car is so problematic in multiple areas that I have a hard time overlooking many of these problems and flaws. I cannot help but see them as systemic to these cars. Others may not have put enough miles on theirs to see the real long term issues as these cars grow older ---But, I have almost 48,000 miles on mine so I am a pretty good test pilot.......but, mine has been a turd since the beginning. At some point you would think that everything that can go wrong with this car has already happened, but this crap just keeps on happening!

    I am upset that Jaguar is so non-responsive too. They are happy to let me hang out to dry on this. This is a 36 month lease, so due to all of my problems, I asked Jaguar to help me get out of this car at 24 months and offered to pay new drive off fees to get into fresh car, but they have not extended themselves. I am now at the end of the warranty with a car that I cannot trust.

    By the way, I also asked Jaguar if they could offer me some extended warranty coverage due to my countless problems, which they also denied. I was trying to give them a chance to restore my confidence, but they seem uninterested in helping me in any way.

    I am happy to provide any interested folks who are considering this car the full low-down and further details. I am not a crazy finnicky driver. I am just a frustrated automobile enthusiast who has been paying almost $1000 per month to drive a piece of garbage that sits in the shop all of the time ...This is a horrible car and Jaguar is an irresponsible company.

    Furthermore, please note the the 2006 Jaguars will not even have the scheduled service visits covered any longer. Meanwhile other luxury brands like BMW give scheduled service and cover brake pads. I can not see any reason to expose anybody to the potential problems with these Jaguars. I suggest that folks avoid these cars like the plague.
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    Look, you must make some allowance that yours is perhaps an anomoly, don't you? There are a lot of satisfied XJ owners out there who have no trouble - they post here too. If they were all as bad as yours, nobody would ever buy one. That's not happening. Jag should step up for you, that's wrong. And I can see why you wouldn't buy another, but really - plague? I have a nephew who feels the same way about Explorers. He had a great one, then bought one that was horrible. It's the best selling SUV in the country - they can't all be bad. No one would buy them. He had a lemon, and that's unf\ortunate. Perhaps you do too. :lemon:
  • blckislandguyblckislandguy Member Posts: 1,150
    What about asking Jag to CPO it for you when it comes off lease? (You turn it in to the bank that leased it from Jag. Then you buy it for the residual and they throw in the 6 year, 100,000 warranty for no charge.)
  • euphoniumeuphonium Member Posts: 3,425
    Agree to the unit being an anomoly, but what takes me out of the mood for an XJ8 is the lack of Jaguar corporate support demonstrated in this case. Is it because it is leased, not owned by the driver? Should not the dealer and leasing agent get involved? What enables Jag Corp. to let me hang out to dry?

    From what is told Jag Corp. is not practicing evangelical business methods. :(
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