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thanks
Thanks,
Chintan Talati
Corporate Communications
Edmunds.com
It is time to get your MBA caps on. Which one of the three cars listed below is the better deal:
1) Locally owned '04 XJ , Black on Black with 9K miles, CPO, dealer owned, 44K
2) New '05 XJL , BRG with Sand, 56K
3) New '06 XJL, Black on Black, 66K
Curiosly enough, the '06 is virtually identical to the '05 except Jag added a chrome ring around the tail light and deleted the mid-door rub rail for a cleaner look. Sadly, the '06 already had a ding where the protective rub rail would have been.
Initially, I'll say don't touch the '06, but tell me if there are ANY equipment differences between them, because to be honest with you, I'm not yet sure ANY of them are a good enough deal.
Had that Radiance with 1,500 miles been within 300 miles of me, I would have checked it out, but 3,000 miles is just too far. It sold very quickly anyway.
When I returned the following day, the salesman sheepishly told me the website was wrong. They have 2 XJs - the Vanden Plas that I looked at and another base model with about 40,000 miles. They had apparently done some sort of "cut and paste" when they set up the site. They had all the information and pictures for the Vanden Plas but they had the price and VIN of the base model. The Vanden Plas is $42,995. The base model with the higher miles was $34,995.
They made an honest mistake so I didn't push it. However, I kind of lost interest in the Vanden Plas at $8000 more than the price quoted on their site.
By the way, my understanding is that there are a couple of significant upgrades to the 2006 models - more insulation and thicker glass. I haven't driven an '06 but I am told that they are much quieter than the '04 and '05s.
IMO it's all about one's comfort level with risk. I'm relatively risk-averse and turn my own car over toward the end of factory warranty as a routine matter. My wife, however, keeps a car for 10 years so extended warranty has saved us a fortune in the lives of her last two cars.
I came within a whisker of buying an '03 VDP w/ 7K miles on it but balked because I would have had less than a year of coverage ... and the local dealer didn't know whether an extended warranty was available from Jaguar! While I found it hard to believe at the time, I took it as a message to stand clear of that unit despite the fact that it was a spectacular specimen. Bart :shades:
TagMan
Incidentally, I'm told by a dealer that very few '04 LWB cars were brought in. One partial explanation (mine not his) of why the '04 resale is so low is that the cars are all plain jane XJs. When I cruise cars.com I see a stiff premium for the XJR and believe it or not, the Vandeplas. The latter seems to command the same resale as the XJR! The price premium between an XJ and the XJL/XJR is at least 10K for an '04. Maybe more. In carspeak, the VandePlas and the XJR seem to "residualize" well. Not sure about the XJL. I don't seem much difference in price between it and a SWB.
What are your thoughts on brisk driving? The less expensive SWB would seem to handle better on the interstate AND around town. IMHO I just don't see the reason for the LWB: only people like Rummy have chauffers; if you have dogs, the Irish Wolfehounds ain't going to be in the Jag; no one picnics by the road anymore so the fold down tables are frivolous; while the back seat is bigger on the LWB the trunk is no different so you aren't going to be carrying any more golf clubs or whatever; I just don't get it.
On the other hand, if I could find a nice used XJ SWB, a set of 20" Sepang ($4500 option on the XJR) wheels on Ebay, and a guy who would install the thicker 31mm XJR antisway bar on it for short money, I would be a happy guy.
Well, there are the LPS guys and there are the HELM guys that are gererally split between indulgence and performance. Sometimes the same beast, but often enough two seperate animals. That explains the values for the XJR and the Vanden Plas BOTH being better. I personally prefer this automobile in the longer wheelbase. From my personal perspective the Vanden Plas is the ideal icon for the XJ.
Somehow, I'm very partial to the '05's in general as the best all around buy, but you must know something here that I would like you to share at this point. So fill me in already.
Incidentally, I'm old enough to be a sucker for BRG with a tan interior. I can recall when half of the TR4s in the world seemed to be BRG. Curiously, I don't see many used XJs in BRG. And, the green in the XJR is the lighter, Jaguar Racing Green which is not to my liking. IMHO the XJ, like most HELMs, looks better in a dark color. I couldn't imagine one in white.
On a side note, I drove an '04 XJ recently whose front seats were fantastic. They were far more supportive than my Porsche Cayennes and more comfortable than our Volvo XC.
Ultimately, it is a gorgeous vehicle that can be had for about half to two-thirds of what any other comparable HELM would cost you. And in some ways it is MORE car than those others. It's amazing to me.
Good Luck.
TagMan
In any event, we totally agree that it is a poor seller, and not necessarily a very good choice, unless you happen to love it, and then it doesn't matter any more. And, BTW, since you mentioned white , I think white is an outstanding color choice. Over the years, I have owned various vehicles in white and always thought it was a smart pick. Even though white it is not statistically a major seller for the XJ (according to the dealer, at least), I personally think it makes for an outstanding looking vehicle. We completely agree, and once again, forgive my display of idiocy, as I usually do better than that. Again, thanks for the wake up.
TagMan
I say that the '05 model is the hot choice for value---and long term reliability, over the '04. Meanwhile, I actually think that the '06 changes are pretty negligible---the changes in the trim with the body molding etc. are not noticed by anybody but a Jaguar aficionado. I drove an '06 and did not sense any really significant change in quietness due to the insulated glass either. Although, the new '06 brakes might be the only reason, if the new revised brakes turn out to be less squeaky.
I originally thought that the increased horsepower in the supercharged XJR was a noteworthy '06 change, until I realized it was just a recertification that raised the HP ratings, rather than any changes to engine.
So, having owned/leased an early '04 and my current '05, I would say that it is best to go for the '05....and do not pay a big premium for the '06.
The overall build quality, trim fit and execution is better in the '05 than my '04. While I had a stinky lemon '04, I still feel that the first year bugs are worked out in the '05 and '06 versions.
I had no wheelbase choice in the XJR, but I prefer the SWB for handling and roadability. However, if you carry adults in the back seat, the LWB is the hot choice for leg room and comfort.
Even though I drive a supercharged XJR, I also want to say that the base XJ powertrain has plenty of pep and power. It is quick and responsive. Bear in mind, that I do not engage the Supercharger in my XJR in most daily driving, except for highway acceleration, or "ego exercise" and it is still a quick light car with the basic engine.
Congratulations, gentlemen. Good work.
TagMan
The XJ is Jaguar's sedan icon, no doubt, and the Vanden Plas is the XJ icon, IMO. I agree . . . not the S, and definately not the X. The XKR is the sports car Jaguar icon. Two models . . . the XJ and the XK. That's really what Jaguar is now about.
The '04 is a fine car, and is essentially the same as the '05 and '06. The "new generation" is the XJ winner and there are improvements to be expected between the '04 and '05, but there are plenty of great '04's out there. But, to look at the situation from a purist standpoint, the '05 represents one of the best values, not only for a Jaguar, but for ANY luxury car on the market, provided that it is purchased at a good price . . . which is still easy enough to do! But, watch out! History is going to change this window of terrific value availability as Jaguar changes their price structure in the near future. Get one now, if you are seriously thinking about it. It will never be this good again. Never.
TagMan
re post referring to XK series... my apologies. I just wasn't thinking about the coupes or ragtops. They, of course, are as true a Jag as the XJ series. Glad you also recognize the difference in the S and X series, as they are more accurately re-badged Fords with only a small part that can be actually attributed to Jaguar. They're still good looking... and make it easier for more to claim the bragging rights of owning a Jag... but they definitely won't earn a parking place in a true Jag connoisseur's barn. I also agree that the XJ's & XK's are a good value, both new & ESPECIALLY used!
I admittedly had a lemon, so my experience may be an anomaly, but the service manager and G.M. at my dealership have confirmed with their experience, that the '05's are seemingly more free from bugs and glitches. This is just the evolution of the model...it happens with all cars during the first few years of production.
However, my XJR was a relatively early production '04 and there were plenty of flaws and factory bulletins for tweaks in these early cars. Most earlier '04's needed tranny flush and recalibration, and other tweaks. Some of us are more finicky about fit and finish than others, but I saw numerous fit and finish issues on '04's that are no longer a problem on later versions. Some people just do not notice things than might bug other drivers. For example the leather trim that wraps into the ashtray area on many early '04's was not cut neatly and/or shrunk away. The chrome trim on the tail-lights was also and problem on many '04s. Likewise the upper trunk liner came loose on my car three times....and the same thing happened on a relative's 04 XJ. These are little things, but they are no longer a problem in the later cars.
If the price differential between an low mileage '04 and a low mileage '04 is not too significant, it makes much more sense to go with an '05. If you find a killer deal on an '04 that looks good and feels right, then go for it.
A well-priced '05 XJR or '05 XJ Vanden Plas is a terrific car purchase . . . truly an unbelievable amount of car for the money.
TagMan
Incidentally, thanks to Tagman et al I think I now more about late model XJs than most of the sales guys I have talked to. The last two weeks of posts have been very helpful.
You are welcome.
Have you ever seen cars.com? It MIGHT offer you some price perspectives. You can extend the search distance and parameters to whatever you like, and it could give you some extra insight . . . maybe. If not, then there is no loss. Whatever you do, if you reach into risky waters, be careful of sharks. Safety can be worth a little extra $$, if you know what I mean. Peace of mind is valuable, IMO.
Good Luck,
TagMan
IF the exclusion is not in the contract, there is coverage. There is always the state insurance commission to consult. Good Luck.
Thanks for responding so quickly.
my conmcern is the cost of maintence, We have many dealers and independent mechinics where I live. Are the parts quite a bit more expensive that parts for a Acura or a Maxium? Are there anythings that I should look for or problems areas that I should know about? What do you think?
In regard to previous post about the XJR trans failure.. The R series, being supercharged for performance, is much more likely to be abused so, understandably, is more likely to be prone to drive train failure AND also more likely to have had body repairs than the normally aspirated cars. But, also... many people that buy NEW lower cost vehicles don't seem to maintain them as well. Pride of ownership aspect maybe? So no matter what, it is buyer beware. If it were my choice, and not so worried about POSSIBLE repairs, it would definitely be another XJ8!
I'm basically VERY conservative... but in this case the pride of ownership with the XJ trumps everything else, IMO!
I don't buy that as an acceptable excuse. Build a car with extra power, couple it with serious drivetrain parts that can take it. My guess is the drivetrain CAN take the abuse ... but from time to time mechanical stuff fails. And it's very possible, particularly in the instance just cited, that something else in the car is putting inordinate stress on the tranny and causing the failures. I'm not a mechanic ... never was, never will be. I just like to think logically. Bart (I'm still craving a Jag but can't pull the trigger on buying one because of past history. Nonetheless, I'm hearing more and more GOOD things about them now and may bite the bullet when my Infiniti lease is done. I had an XK120 fixed head coupe when I was in college ... beautiful but a piece of mechanical garbage.) :shades:
The XJ is Jaguar's sedan icon, no doubt, and the Vanden Plas is the XJ icon, IMO. I agree . . . not the S, and definately not the X. The XKR is the sports car Jaguar icon. Two models . . . the XJ and the XK. That's really what Jaguar is now about.
I copied two comments in italics, but I am curious about this issue. Never mind the X - it is a Ford platform. But why the criticism of the S? It looks like an older Jag, very nice retro style, and performs pretty well. I prefer the performance of the R version, which I have, to just about anything out there.
Secondly, I am interested in the 05 XJ series. The dealers who have leftover new 05s are getting a lot of support to sell them, I hear. Any solid info on how much?
As for the saab bit--that's not true. Recently, some of the engineering was consolidated with opel, and they moved to germany, but that's nothing like laying off the entire engineering staff after acquisition.
Well, no, my statement is almost the opposite of what you said.
Jaguar has consolidated a lot of engineering with ford, but i bet you wouldn't say:
"As soon as ford bought jaguar,they fired the whole engineering staff and now it's just a sales ploy."
It's as accurate as your statement. There is jaguar engineering happening in dearborn.
dave
Really? Shared paltform with the x and s-type? Using the completely ford-sourced duratec v6--not even a compeitive engine in the mid-priced cars category? Switchgear, internals.
It's not hard to argue saab's more independant than jag is. They were part of the team working on their new engine.
Can you back up your claims that GM fired all the saab engineering staff, and kept all the jag engineers? It shouldn't be hard to back that up using google, should it?
dave
I have looked--there is NOTHING about GM laying off the entire saab engineering staff on the web, a fact which i suspect you know as well as I.
Notice you didn't respond to the rest of my post.
TagMan