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Saab 9-3 Coupe (2002 and earlier)
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Comments
The difference is that instead of paying some amount and having a zero balance at the end of the term, you pay something less, and at the end of the term, you owe some additional lump sum amount, which is what is called the "balloon".
FWIW, if you don't have the cash, some balloon loans are set up so that you're able to effectively re-finance the balloon amount over the next couple of years.
For a totally made-up illustration, with bogus numbers that are guaranteed to be wrong, consider the following:
Assume: $20K financed @ 8%
Normal 3 year loan: $626.72/month
Hypothetical Balloons
#1: $1/month, with $25,200 due at end of period
#2: $300/month, with $14,000 due at end of period
#3: $626/month, with $20 due at end of period.
And so on. Basically, you're paying interest on cash and not paying off some percentage of the principle.
The basic idea behind the balloon for car loans is to still buy the car (and generate principle) while keeping the payments as low as a lease (where you never generate any principle).
The trade-off with cars is that cars depreciate. If a car depreciates to a value lower than your balloon residual, you're stuck behind the power curve pretty nastily.
-hh
what i am really trying to get my hands around is: if i can own the car within a balloon-type program and have payments as low as with a lease, plus avoid the tax that exists with a lease, is there still an argument for why i should still lease and not buy? (nyccarguy) i presume that 3-yr free maintenance would exist on the same car whether i buy or lease right? this scenario seems to point to taking advantage of the balloon, unless i'm missing something?
thanks,
22sub
Compare the extra interest cost from the balloon loan to the personal property tax (which is probably deductible on your federal taxes) and see which is the better deal. I'm going to guess that you are better off with lease.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD
22sub
every 10k/20k/30k miles despite the fact that the car would be under a bumper-to-bumper 4yr/50k mile warranty... which should be sufficient for a 3 year lease.
any thoughts out there?
Overall, my Saab was reliable for the first 3 years. It wasn't until it it 36K miles that it went downhill.
-hh
find mine to be the most balanced car between "fun to drive" and "practical" that I've ever owned. I used to be a vw guy, and looking back, my GTI and Passat needed more repairs over time than the 9-3 ever has. Lots of little aggravating stuff that made them rough around the edges.
Enough about lease rates and problems, how about some positive feedback about what you can do to customize, and make the car even more fun. The only thing that bugs me is that the new 9-3 is supposed to drop the hatchback. It's why I got it in the first place. If they do this, I'm gone anyway. If you agree send an e-mail to saab.
My Mom takes my car instead of her CLK when she goes on runs to Costco or a large grocery run.
The few times we've had snow over the duration of my lease since December '99 I have not missed my 4WD Explorer one bit.
I've taken the Saab skiing with 4 people (myself and 3 others) with skis and equipment in the trunk (skis fit nicely through the pass through). The Turbo works great on those high altitude hill climbs from the NYS Thruway to the mountain.
I Love the effortless power, tightly wound suspension, night panel, & everything that makes it a Saab.
I don't like the stock rubber that came on the car. I also don't like the look some people give you when they find out you drive a Saab. For me it cost about the same as many SUVs out there.
When I was looking to lease in late '99, I was quoted $525/month for a GLX Passat & $475/month for an Accord EX Sedan (Both with $0 Down 36 months/ 36K). For $398 & change I pay, the Saab was way more fun to drive! I think I made the right choice!
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD
36K - first clutch replacement
45K - loss of lubrication without any loss of oil.
It ate alive its timing chains & gears.
47K - second clutch replacement
I would have accepted any one of these problems as "bad luck", but this was more along the lines of: "3 strikes and you're out."
The clutch problems were due to a failed bushing, which evidentally was not "self-lubricated for life" like it was supposed to be. It would begin to bind, which would erode itself even more. It would eventually cause the clutch cable to break and leave you stranded. This is an Engineering design/manufacturing defect and it cannot in any way be attributable to the operator's driving habits.
My Saab's warranty listed transmission "wear items" as being covered for only 1 year/16K miles from time of purchase instead of the normal warranty duration. The catch is what exactly is and is not on this list. The clutch cable and release bearing are, but if I had to do it all over again, I would get a list of specific part numbers for the items excluded as a condition of vehicle purchase.
BTW, the Saab Customer Assistance Center's phone number is 1-800-955-9007. They're open M-Fri, 8AM-8PM Eastern Time USA.
-hh
I got my car used. It had something like 55K miles on it already. There are a few squeaks and rattles, but nothing even remotely annoying. Of course, I must admit that getting those in a used car is considerably less disturbing than on a new car. My air control dial was malfunctional, but repaired at $200. Since I also got floormats that day at the dealer, they threw them in for free. This is 128 Saab in Massachusetts, by the way.
I got Bridgestone Potenza RE950's, which work beautifully. I have noticed that there is something not quite right with the steering however. It's precise, but not really centered correctly, even though I have had three alignments done already. Firestone provides free lifetime alignments for $99. So when I go in to the dealer for the big 60K checkup this summer, I will have that checked. Also, the autobox shifts a little harsh between first and second sometimes, so I want to have that checked as well. Does anyone else find that problem?
Other than that, my car has been absolutely perfect. My mother drives it regularly, and likes it more and more each day she spends away from her '97 MPV. I do not think Saab 9-3's are any more unreliable than other cars. If you look at the other car boards, there are really just as many problems.
Anyway, just thought I would share a positive experience.
If you read any of the internet discussion groups (e.g. Edmunds.com) you will see people LOVE their SAABs because they have a hatch and are VERSATILE.
Please please don't go to a trunk! If you give in to the common notion that "no one wants hatchbacks" it will be a BIG disappointment!
Agreed. The presence of the hatch & folding rear seats was a very big part of why I originally bought mine, instead of a 3-Series BMW.
-hh
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD
From the review, it sounds as though the thing will be a blast to drive.
I wonder if saab might do the same thing with the 440: broaden the line-up to include a hatch.
I spent 2001 looking around for a suitable replacement for the Saab. It went slowly, mostly because of a lot of other commitments which stole my free time. There really aren't that many hatches out the marketplace, although things have heated up very recently in the lower price segment. As per Edmunds, there are exactly 3 hatchbacks in the $25-30K price segment (and 58 SUV's/Trucks).
Overall, you have a couple of basic issues and product groupings to consider what your personal biases - er "preferences" ;-) are to narrow down the list. Besides price, they are:
- European, American or Japanese design philosophy?
- The back seat: is it there just to lower your insurance, or is it really for people (you like) to sit in?
- Style: genuine hatch, or will a wagon do?
-hh
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD
Exactly the same story here.
I'd challenge anybody to show me a car that size with that much utility.
I recall reading a review on like a dozen of the midsize SUV's a few years ago...and when I got to the part on cargo capacity started laughing out loud: my Saab had a greater carrying capacity than all but one of them.
I'm going to miss the size of the trunk. I'm also going to miss watching hours of CNN in the waiting room down at the Saab dealership.
-hh
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD
1) Rattles rattles and more rattles. And if it doesn't rattle it squeaks, thumps,scrapes and any other adjective you can think of. To give you an idea I had an 1988 ford with 107K miles on it that was worlds quieter and better put together.
2)Here's a list of other things that went wrong:
keep in mind the car has 14K miles...
Front suspension bushings replaced to remedy a cheap rubbery loud sound when going over speed bumps and to fix the loud thump when going over railroad tracks( I'm talking a thump so loud you pull over to make sure the wheels are still attached)I don't think this is all the car needed but this is all that was fixed after two days.
The Saab Information display has moisture behind in and was illegible and on its was to burnt out..this was replaced too..Of course this will cost you $500 when the warranty is up. Then the engine light comes on during a u-turn...I laugh and keep driving cause its not gonna be my problem much longer..actually traded it today
3)Customer service is horrible at the dealer and Saab could care less..I took the time to fill out their survey for service and asked to be contacted regarding the loaner car policy and problems I was having with the car but I was never contacted.
All I can say is keep shopping ..don't be lured in by the rebates
We normally keep our cars 7 to 10 years, with excellent maintenance complementing basic reliability from the factory. I got a little ansy with some of the posts (nyccarguy and huntzinger, to name two) on this site, so, with a money factor of near zero and only 36 months of "ownership," we gave the 9-3 a try. My wife learned to drive on a Sonnet and believes a Saab and a 5-speed is the way to go. We'll see.
When did all of this heartache start with Saab ownership? When GM bought into Saab? Are there ANY 9-3 owners out there with 1999s through 2001s with positive ownership experiences?
2)Enginge has oil leak
3)Engine making abnormal noises
Besides this I have watched several Saab owners get the bad news of their repairs while waiting for my car to be serviced...$1000+ repair bills and they all left annoyed in rental cars. I do wish you luck on your 9-3...but i'd give it back when the lease is up and get another acura
If I really had my mind set on another Saab, I think I would have leased instead of risking all the headaches that I did. I'd also make sure to have extensive ("extended") warranty up the wazoo to make sure that there's absolutely no doubt that Saab pays for everything - right down to windshield washer fluid :-)
Overall, this reminds me of a conversation I had at a PCA meeting several years ago, although the subject of discussion was a Range Rover.
At that time (not sure if this is still true), Rovers were plagued with electrical gremlins and the owner's advice was "the perfect vehicle to Lease instead of buying", based on the ability to be able to walk away from it.
So if we were to suggest a new topic of:
"You had better lease these vehicles instead of buying them, because of their poor reliability"
...what would we put on that list today, with the Saab 9-3?
-hh
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD
Coming from a '95 900 that had many problems, including a water pump pulley that cracked and took out several engine components with it -- later the subject of a recall.
The worst thing about the 9-3 was the manual climate control, as many have said. But once the control box was replaced, it worked great.
There were rattles, but I was able to eliminate most with some foam tape, especially on the rear seats where they meet the upper strut and detach for folding down.
We had a 5-speed and that's the way to go, imo.
Another great thing is the safety of the car. I was hit once in the 900, in the front driver's side by truck coming through red light, and once in the 9-3, rear-ended at a stop.
Neither was a severe accident, but I could drive to the dealer both times and was not hurt at all. The anti-whiplash head rests performed beautifully when we were hit from behind.
Overall, I'd say the car can be frustrating when it's rattling or the suspension is creaking on a very cold day. But when it's right (and mine was most of the time) it's a joy to drive.
Hope you and your wife have 3 great years in it.
Only 14 weeks until I can dump my car back on the dealer.
Anybody ever tried to get out of the disposal fee charged on leases? I'm thinking about asking for an exception since my car has had SOOOOOOO many problems, I could never even consider buying it out at the end of the lease.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD
Fast, classy-looking, comfortable, safe and RELIABLE, the UK AutoClub placed the '99 9-3 FIRST, tied with three Japanese cars in reliability with zero (0) faults found after two ((2) years.
Faults on ours included (1) the heaterbox, replaced under warranty and (2) a bushings squeak in v cold weather from startup lasting 10 minutes.
If you have only ONE car to buy, it should be this one. More Saab people, per owner, are online than any other car. No other car sells to strongly on a single test drive than Saab. No other car has so many dog owners per unit than Saab. Most people (surveys say) will think you PAID MORE FOR IT than you did.
Bottom line is loyalty. Saabs placed 6th overall behind only Porsche among Eurocars and a few Japanese cars for buyer return purchase. I'd buy another one in a New York Minute if I needed another one but Saabs last so long, you're not always turning 'em over; longer, in fact, than Toyotas and Mercedes in engine life.
While I'll admit that I have a lemon which is far worse than the average Saab 93, between the other Saab owners I know and every time I walk into a dealer and see what problems people are having, I'd have a hard time believeing that Saab is that good.
Just my 2 cents...
Same here. It seemed that there were always a ton of cars always waiting for repair, and invariably, it seemed that there was always someone there for the same problem I was having (and this included my engine rebuild from that "mysterious" loss of lubrication that happened somehow without any loss of oil).
-hh
I had my heart set on a BMW 325i or 325Ci which I was planning to get via European Delivery. The BMW would have put a significant strain on my already tight budget. I decided to go Sport Coupe. The car I've wanted since it's introduction in 1997 is a Honda Prelude Type SH. They stopped making the Prelude at the end of last year (2001), so my hopes for owning one were dwindling. I called a few dealers here in the tri-state area and after about 2 weeks of calling, my local dealer (Nanuet Honda) found a brand new 2001 Red Prelude Type SH for me. I put a deposit on the car and am going to pick it up either next week or the week after.
I've still got the Saab to enjoy too until December 4 or 36,000 miles (whichever comes first). 6,000 miles shouldn't be a problem. The problem will be driving the Saab (Slushbox), when I have a new Prelude (5 Speed) sitting in my driveway!
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD
The article should be available at BBC archives.
It is generally accepted that Saab has a more consistently high-quality dealer prep program in the UK than they do in North America.
My car is serviced at a Saturn dealership, which always wins on dealer service in North America according to JD Power. This may give Canadian Saabs a small edge in North America.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/uk/newsid_1470000/1470045.stm
As I say, it is generally accepted that Saab has a more consistently high-quality dealer prep program in the UK than North America. ***All** Saab initial assemblies are done in the EU, right?
There are various combinations of diesels and trims levels made available in the EU which we don't get here, mainly because, in the case of the diesel, our refineries are too dirty and in the case of trim (optional equipment) levels, North Americans are unhappy with basic transportation and generally "trick out" their cars with as many options as are available - and then some.
That, however, was all on a pre-GM car. Can anyone tell me if parts costs have gone down on the post-GM cars? I thought I had my heart set on a WRX, but then was enticed by the near-$23,000 stickers I've seen on 9-3 SE's. I know this is the last model year and all before a major revamp, but at that price, I'm having a hard time turning down the idea of a Saab, reliability issues and all. Any thoughts?
While I don't expect we'll come down to big-volume car parts costs, I don't think we'll remain at BMW cost levels either.
The car I drive is so new, I simply have no way of comparing, since I've done nothing but brakes so far. A muffler, spray pump for the glass-washing system and antenna were all replaced under warranty
- the pump, as it saved much time-consuming tinkering by a GM warrant mechanic.
- the muffler, because in-town driving with frequent shut downs in cold weather traps moisture.
- the antenna, because I hit the garage door with it once and it was never the same after that.
What I do know about the Saab is that it has a reputation for long life, if maintained. Some significant portion of long life maintenance is preventative. So I religiously maintain oil, filter and liquids changeouts and otherwise keep the tires, the body, and interior finishes in more or less pristine shape.
As well, consistent with advice I got from a race car and bus mechanic, I try to 'drive gentle and firm', avoiding hard, abrupt anything, whether it's jarring surfaces, cornering, braking, or constant forcing of the engine and tranny.
It's hard to compare the WRX to the Saab 9-3. The Saab will give you more of almost everything and the image you project is radically different. Most people, for example, still think Saabs cost far more than they really do. And more people see you in your car than in your clothing.