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Comments
Also, how do you structure a CPO deal? i.e. how do you estimate the cars true value...Any buying experiences will be appreciated...
The prices you get should be averaged from all the sources. Additionally, I am going to assume you are getting a "certified" Mercedes Benz, which would include a 5 or 6 year extended warranty.
I checked Kelly Blue Book and they priced the "trade-in" value of the car at 39,532, assuming good condition. Thus, the price you have from the dealer is excellent according to them.
Personally, I would give them a counter-offer of $36,000 and see what they do. Again, if the car is not a certified car with the extended warranty, you might want to offer them the $38K and have them certify the car.
I hope I have been helpful to you.
2021 Genesis G90
Are you a veteran? If you are, you can qualify for the USAA pricing which is invoice + 500 less 2000, or a net price of 1500 under invoice. Even if your father, mother, brother or sister were or are veterans, you can use their social security number and serial number to register with USAA. USAA will explain the details to you as I do not want to go into this lengthy process if you don't qualify.
Are you currently in a Mercedes Benz Lease or loan with MB financial? If you are, you can qualify for the $2000 incentive they have available for this month, and probably next month. You can "BUNDLE" the MB financial incentive (2000) with the USAA discount, if you qualify. There is also a conquest incentive available which can be bundled with the interest rate and MB Financial incentive.
You cannot get a conquest with a USAA; you cannot get a loyalty incentive (I think they have 1500 for November and is different from the MB financial incentive, and will probably extend it to December) with the USAA discount.
Enough about available incentives.
You should be able to get this car for a discount off MSRP of about $2000, without any incentives. I don't know of any other dealers going lower than that right now as there is a limited number of sedans available in the country right now. My dealer is one of the largest in south florida, and he has 8 of them available. They tell me they do not expect any increases in inventory levels until late January or early February. They do not know why there is a shortage, just that there is one throughout the country.
One thing that is nice about USAA is that USAA sets the pricing of the car for you and the dealer, which is invoice + $500.00. The USAA discount forces the dealer to sell the vehicle at that set price. And remember, you can get additional incenitves. I paid 55,300 for a 62325 MSRP vehicle since I was able to use the USAA pricing less 1500. And an additional 1500 for MB Financial Loyalty incentive. This month, the MB Financial incentive is 2000.00. So I paid 500 more last month than I would have paid this month. The vehicle I purchase was ordered for me, so I really had to take delivery before Nov.1st. I also got the 1.9% financing rate for 66 months negotiated down to 1.65% since they have a 1% mark-up on the rate. They also threw in maintenance for 3 years, which is worth about $800.00.
I hope this has been helpful to you. I would be interested in what you qualify for and what you end up paying.
2021 Genesis G90
If all he is giving you is $2000 off because of the conquest discount, then you are dealing with the wrong dealer. What he is offering you is MSRP, or list price since the dealer receives the loyalty money back from Mercedes Benz. You should be able to get the conquest money (2000) plus an additional 2000. That would bring the price to 4000 below MSRP, or almost his invoice. That would be an excellent price for this time of the eyar.
As for waiting, that will not get you a better price unless you are plannign on waiting until May or June or eve July.
If you want to get the car for close to dealer invoice which would include the 2000 from the conquest money + another 2000 in dealer discount (dealer would make a profit of 2500 plus his hold back of 2%) and the 1.9% financing (remember, that too can be negotiated down a little since they have 1% mark-up on that 1.9 % loan), you can do that "right now" and without having to wait.
I would suggest that you go into that dealer with your check-book and/or trade ready to buy a car that same day (and tell him you are ready to drive home in a new Mercedes Benz if the price is right) and offer him a total of $4000 below MSRP (which would include 2000 conquest and a 2000 discount). If he says "no way, no how", just tell him you are off to see the other Mercedes Benz dealer in town or your city, and offer him the same deal. Believe me, even with limited inventories, you should be able to get the car you want for that price along with the 1.9 % financing (I always carry a small loan on my car from MB Financial because they usually offer a MB Financial loyalty cash back deal of 1500 to 2000 every time I buy a car from my dealer).
In other words, if you want that car, get aggressive and make them an offer. IF they refuse the offer, tell them you will go to another dealer and make them the same offer. I live in South east Florida, and there are 10 MErcedes Benz Dealers located within 30 miles of where I live.
GOOD LUCK!!!
2021 Genesis G90
Good luck!
2021 Genesis G90
My father was a Veteran, but USAA informed me that I am unfortunately ineligible for membership. That would have made this pricing exercise much easier because the USAA program would have enabled me to agree on a price beforehand.
Should I place the order and hope that the Conquest, finance and other incentives are in place when I take delivery in February or March?
I've also been looking at the actual prices paid locally and regionally within the last 90 days as reported on Truecar.com. I'm not sure if the prices I'm seeing there are for the exact same vehicle or not.
Thanks. I'd appreciate any feedback that you could provide.
Your best, and only, bet is to get the dealer to agree that you can cancel the order at any time prior to when you pick up the car. Otherwise, you will either forfeit your deposit or you will have to acquire the car based on whatever programs are available at the time it gets to your dealer.
That's what I figured, but I just wanted to make sure that I'm approaching the pricing process correctly.
Thanks.
What is the difference between the Luxury 4Matic Sedan and the Sport 4Matic Sedan as listed on this site for price calculating? I don't see any differences listed.
I know I want the 4Matic with nav, rear airbags and natural beige leather...
1. Is the leather that much better than the leatherette standard? This is my first luxury car and my existing vehicles are all leather-like interiors
2. Should I go in with the maintenance package included in my negotiating price or add that on top of where we end up?
3. I see on here many comments about a shortage of 2012 vehicles...is the 2012 so much different than 2011? I'd be happy w/a 2011 unless there's some can't-live-without improvements on the 2012.
4. Any idea of the price of the nav system outside of the P1 package?
5. Any "must have" options that I'm missing?
6. It appears the base invoice is $49,281 and Mercedes will give me $2000 through the Employee Allowance Bonus Program, taking the price to $47,281. I've also been advised by a number of friends who've negotiated w/MB that I should include MB's employee 8-12% discount to get to my bottom line. So I am thinking of starting at 12%, taking the price to $41,607 (without the options I outlined above). Does this sound feasible?
7. We will qualify for the 1.9%, which I see in many threads can be negotiated down, so where should I start with that - offer 1%?
8. I can put 10% down but would rather not...can that be done?
Thanks for your insights!!
Erin
Yes, inventory is much lower at dealers this year than last. I don't know why and my dealer tells me that production is reduced over last year.
The 2012 has a new engine (268 hp on 2011, 302 on 2012) with better fuel economy (20 city, 30 hway - and I am getting 33 mpg on the highway on trips over 40 miles). Since you are getting a 4-matic, fuel economy will be a little less for obvious reasons. There is also a newer and more efficient transmission.
You can only get the NAV with premium package 1 or 2. But remember, you also get rear sunshade, Harman Kardin 610 sterro with 14 speakers (12 speakers on the 2011). You also get heated seats and several other options.
You do not have to put anything down, so long as your credit is excellent.
As for leather vs. MBtex, I've had both and I prefer MBtex because is cleans up better than leather.
I currently have leather because I wanted the ventilated seats (heated as well as aircooled in summer, as I live in Florida). I also have the dynamic driver's seat, but I do not think I would get that again.
I got the premium 2 because I wanted the Xenon lights, cornering lamps, curve illumination and adaptive high beam system. I also like the Keyless Go, automatic trunk closer and others.
It's all a matter of choice.
As for negotiations, dealers are tied to a preset arrangement with Mercedes Corporate - in other words, there is a set price for which they will sell the vehicle, no more, no less. You can't bundle existing incentives with such offers, usually.
What I would do is go to three dealers. Get their best prices, which should be almost identical.
Your 1.9% finance rate can be negotiated down to .9%, if the dealer is willing to give up all profit on the deal, which most are not. But I was able to get 1.65 since I buy alot of vehicles from the same dealer.
For a more detailed explanation of packages and options, go to mbusa.com and go through the info on the E350 4-matic.
2021 Genesis G90
2. Should I go in with the maintenance package included in my negotiating price or add that on top of where we end up? IF YOU LEASE, THEN YES, OTHERWISE, NO
3. I see on here many comments about a shortage of 2012 vehicles...is the 2012 so much different than 2011? I'd be happy w/a 2011 unless there's some can't-live-without improvements on the 2012. YES, THE ENGINE IN THE 2012'S IS SIGNFICANTLY STRONGER
4. Any idea of the price of the nav system outside of the P1 package? CAN'T GET IT...ONLY WITH p1 OR P2
5. Any "must have" options that I'm missing? PREMIUM 2 PACKAGE
6. It appears the base invoice is $49,281 and Mercedes will give me $2000 through the Employee Allowance Bonus Program, taking the price to $47,281. I've also been advised by a number of friends who've negotiated w/MB that I should include MB's employee 8-12% discount to get to my bottom line. So I am thinking of starting at 12%, taking the price to $41,607 (without the options I outlined above). Does this sound feasible?NO IDEA...
7. We will qualify for the 1.9%, which I see in many threads can be negotiated down, so where should I start with that - offer 1%? ANSWERED BEFORE
8. I can put 10% down but would rather not...can that be done? NO IDEA ON PURCHASE. NO MONEY DOWN ON LEASES.
Congrats!
Can you post more details (price paid on the car) on your deal? I am in the market too, also can you include dealership name?
*Currently there is a 2000.00 conquest incentive on the 2012
*Currently, there is a 2000.00 MB Financial incentive to those who currently have a MB lease or an MB loan - which could not be bundled with the conquest incentive since it is a "conquest", or taking a customer who owns a luxury car, but not a Mercedes, and bringing them into the fray, so to speak
There is also a special incentive available to dealers for loyalty. The amount I believe is 2000.00. This incentive may be able to be bundled with the MB financial incentive.
USAA provides a pricing level for members of 500.00 over invoice LESS 2000.00. That cannot be combined with most other incentives - but the MB financial incentive CAN be combined with it.
You got a great deal, even assuming incentives.
As an example, in October, my 62,325 E350 sport was sold to me for $55,300, and included MB maintenance for 3 years, a 1000.00 or so value.
But that included USAA incentive and MB Financial Incentive of 1500 (which is what the incentive was in October). Invoice on the car was $58275.00, so I bought the car for about 3000 under invoice.
Enjoy your car - I've never had an E class sedan that handled, acceleratred and provided fuel economy like this new 2012.
2021 Genesis G90
Let's assume the car MSRP'd at 57125. Subtract 875 shipping and then multiply by .93 (his invoice factor), then add back the shipping cost of 875.00. Thus, his invoice is 53187.50. In addition to this, there is about 2% holdback or $1000, give or take a few bucks. Thus, his actual, dead cost for the vehicle is about 52,000.00. But you paid over 7,000 below MSRP. My best friend told me that he has never, ever heard of anyone getting that much off MSRP, with no incentives from USAA or Mercedes Benz, or Mercedes Benz Financial. He also added that not even he could purchase a vehicle for that price, and he is the GM.
His guess is that you qualified for at least $3500 in incentives in order to buy the car for what your purchased it for.
I sure would like to know how you were able to get a car for what you paid for it with no incentives. He also would like to know that. He said he would love to purchase cars for his inventory from your dealer, if you could let us know who the dealer was. He said he would call him up and buy as many as he would let him have.
2021 Genesis G90
I ordered thru the dealer option 401 Heated and Ventilated Seats. That required my upgrade to leather so I chose to do so. When I got the Confirmation a few days later it did not show option 401 for $450 but rather option 432 Active Multicontour Drivers Seat with massage. I didn't raise an objection because the $660 option was more then I ordered and I presumed, incorrectly, that the option included ventilated seats, the option I really wanted.
Skip forward a month and when I went into the dealership to pay for the vehicle the saleslady noted the difference and told me I was not getting ventilated seats. We have no clue as to why MB European Delivery did not follow the salespersons purchase order. I already have my reservations in January to pick up the vehicle.
The only solution from MB was to get a loaner during my trip and have a new configured vehicle made which probably would delay delivery another month or two. I opted not to delay.
Further confusion is directly from their web site. It says P2 includes multi contour seats. Is the vibrator truly a $600 option above that or am I being charged twice, one in P2 and again as separate option?
Any suggestions? Can't they just simply make the adjustment to my car since they have one month's notice to correct their mistake?
I feel that the multi-contour seats are not worth the extra $600. The massage function is uncomfortable and distracting when driving the vehicle. The "wrap-around" feature is the best feature of all, snuggly holding you into your seat, especially on turns.
As for the confusion on the order, unfortunately you read the confirmation and noted that the option you ordered was not being added to your new vehicle, and did not report this to the dealer, nor did the dealer attempt to correct it, assuming he knew nothing about the incorrect order since you did not notify him. Thus, there is a shared responsibility/liability here, the dealer for not checking to make sure the vehicle was ordered correctly, and you for not bringing to their attention the "missing" 401 package.
Quite frankly, I would not accept the car they built for you nor would I wait for another one, especially in winter in Europe. If you want ventilated/heated seats, which includes a fan under each front seat to blow the cabin air through the bottom and back of the seats and/or with the heated seats button pressed to one fo the three settings, warm/hot air through the bottom/back of the seats, then you should get them. I live in Florida, and needless to say, it's the ventilated cool air that is essential here during late spring, summer, and early fall.
I would sit down with the owner/general manager of the dealership and go over this mess! Insist that he have a new car ordered for you with the exact options and colors you want and have it delivered to his dealership ASAP at the same pricing as if you took European delievery (7% below MSRP, which is approximately dealer invoice. If youi want the multi-contour seats, insist that this be added as part of making you a satisfied customer.
Another possible solution is to have the general manager of the dealership involved in "locating" the car you want and having it shipped to his dealership with the above stipulations. If the dealer is uncooperative, TAKE YOUR BUSINESS SOMEPLACE ELSE!
Even though you share some of the responsibility for the problem (by not notifying the dealership of the option not put on your car, but ordered and not showing up on the confirmation), you are the cusomter, and in this case, the customer is always right. You should not have to wait 2 months for a car. All I waiting was 6 weeks from the time I ordered the car and the time I took delivery here in Florida.
Good luck with whatever you decide and enjoy this car - it is definitely worth waiting for with the improvements in the transmission and engine that they have made.
2021 Genesis G90
Pre-paid maintenance is a great feature if they would throw it in for you. The average A maintenance is $330.00. So, you get $1000.00 worth of maintenance for about $700 +/-. At the price he is selling you the car for, I would doubt he has much room left to accomodate the "throw in maintenance", however, with this being the end of the year, he might be willing to eat into his 2% holdback a bit. Who knows - but if you don't ask, you'll never know.
If you are getting the luxury model, there are not alot of them available since 90% of the E350 production this year is in the sport model. Swapping wheels is difficult because of the tire pressure sensors in each wheel - which sends data to the car's computer system. When you change wheels, everything has to be re-programmed - and is costly in terms of shop hourly costs. It takes a tremendous amount of time to change wheels and tires because of the reprogramming.
2021 Genesis G90
2021 Genesis G90
I settled with the saleslady on the vehicle E350 I wanted. When I got home and had 24 hours to think about it I called back and said lets add heated and ventilated seats. She said that would require the leather option which was $1600. She called the ED office at MB in New Jersey and they agreed to ship the car I originally ordered the day before to the dealership and replace my order with a vehicle with leather and ventilated seats. The sales lady then had the exact vehicle put on the Purchase Order but somehow, someway the New Jersey office skipped the ventilated in favor of massage.
I just decided to let it go but after re-reading your response I wished I had asked the sales person yesterday to try the "ship ED to USA". I think at this point I will let it go. I will just make up my mind to be happy with what is delivered to me in Europe.
Another thing that really surprised me on this forum (wished I'd found it
before I ordered) was the 90% of E350's are sport. Mine is luxury. I'm stunned at that ratio.
If I may add a final question, I was trying to find out the shipping dates from Europe to Brunswick, GA. I am scheduled to pick up my vehicle on Jan 11 and redeliver at on Jan 12. It will be winter in Europe and I wasn't sure I wanted to chance driving on snow or ice. Do you have any idea if European Delivery is faster from the factory? I understand the shipping point is Bremerhaven. I leave from Frankfurt on the 13th. Not sure about getting to Frankfurt airport from Bremerhaven. In other words I was hoping to drop off the vehicle at the place where shipping to Brunswick would be fastest. Harms said to contact their offices but they have not responded (Bremerhaven) in a week to my emails.
There is a major difference between the sport and luxury models. The luxury models ride less firm, do not have different sized tired front and rear, have 18" tires and wheels for better traction and handling, but the tires wear out much more quickly - I usually get about 16,000 miles on a set. But, the styling (lower body and front grillework are different) is much more appealing on the sport, at least to me. The car rides a little stiffer, but handling is much improved over the luxury. I would expect resale on the sport to be better than on the luxury due to interior styling/exterior styling and the fact that most E350's are sport models.
You will not realize any major increase in resale due to P2 overe P1, ventilated seats or multi-contour seats. The best resale is on a P1 with the sport wheel package and would be worth about the same as mine. (i.e., 62325 for mine, 57,000 for the other, but both would be worth about the same at resale time 3 years later).
As you should be aware, your dealer can locate an identical car you want from more than 800 dealers nationwide and have that car shipped to his dealership, and the cost would be minimal since MB is contributing to the cost due to their error. I would take the car here and then take a nice trip through the U.S. and Canada this summer. Besides, Europe can be seen any time and driving a rental is safer than driving my new vehicle, especially through Europe.
Good luck on whatever you decide.
2021 Genesis G90
BUT ONLY MERCEDES BENZ CORPORATE knows for sure what will be available. I am only guessing based on previous years experiences this time of the year.
The only way to be sure is to take advantage of this discount NOW! I would not take the chance that there will be the same incentives 30 days from now. Remember, there is a shortage of E350 sedans throughout the country. Down here in southern Florida, there are 12 Mercedes Benz Dealerships from Palm Beach County to Miami-Dade County, and there are a total of 45 E350's in stock in all those dealerships. What does that tell you? And what do you think that says for January?
I ordered my car in late August, 2011. Arrived at dealer on October 17th. I took advantage of the USAA pricing of invoice +500 less 2000 (net of 1500 under dealer invoice) and a 1500 incentive from Mercedes Benz Financial. Also negotiated 1.6% financing on an 18,000 loan for 66 months (always pays to have a small loan on a Mercedes since MB Financial always has a special incentive for current loan holders or lessees). If I had waiting until November to get the car, I could have saved another $500 since the MB Financial incentive went up 500. I could not "bundle" any other discounts or incentives with USAA except for the MB Financial incentive. But, I got the car I wanted, $3000 below dealer invoice, and have truly enjoyed this new E350 sedan for 2 months now. I am not disappointed at all that I could have saved $500 more.
Never pays to wait if you can get a great price now.
2021 Genesis G90
I do not believe the 5 spoke or 5 double spoke 18" wheels are available on the luxury model. Remember, the 5 spoke (standard on the sport model) and the 5 double-spoke AMG's (optional as part of the wheel package) have different sized front vs. rear wheels.
If you were to have the dealer select a set of wheels for you new car and put them on the car, those new wheels might not have the necessary sensors and may not be in synch with car's computer, and even if the dealer could add sensors and match the sensors to the car's computer, it would be very costly as I mentioned to you for the dealer, which costs would be passed on to you. The only sensible way to get nicer wheels (I agree, the standard 17" wheels on the luxury model are hideous looking) is to order upgraded wheels with your new car as an "option". They have various optional wheels available from the factory. I have an ordering manual for the 2012 E350 Sedan, and noticed several wheel sizes available as an option when you order the car.
I believe you can also get 18" wheels/tires for the luxury as an option (with same size tires/wheels for front and rear).
Avoid trying to find wheels/tires as after-market for your car for the above reasons. Good luck!
2021 Genesis G90
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What I was trying to convey to you is that you can order "optional" wheels for the "luxury" model in both 17 and 18 inch versions.
2021 Genesis G90
Checkin' in with the news that I got a call and my E350 4Matic Luxury with P2 has been built and is on its way! The dealer is still telling me they think it'll be in before the end of the year, which surprises the heck out of me. But, they want me to come in next week and get paperwork done so they can lock in the incentives. (They must be very motivated to get this deal done in 2011 :-) I'm pretty motivated, too, not knowing what January might bring. I'll have USAA and MB Financial, but from what I'm reading I don't think I can stack the MBCA $1000 incentive...it says you can't stack "certificates." Do you think I'm right about that?
It takes about two weeks to get the car from Germany to the US. But then the car must be made ready for transport from the port to the dealership. They can deliver the car on the same day they receive it, which is what happened with me. It's going to be tight but still possible.
Keep us updated on the progress!
2021 Genesis G90
I hope this answered your question.
2021 Genesis G90
You might want to double-check with the IRS if you live in a state where you are deducting state/local income taxes if you can also deduct sales taxes. I think you will find that residents of states where there is an income tax which is being used as a deduction cannot also deduct sales taxes - it's one or the other. But, I"ve been known to be wrong on many occasions - I'm relying on what my accountant told me, and to be quite frank - my accountant has been known to be wrong in some instances as well.
2021 Genesis G90
For instance, we can do either, but deduct the state income taxes because it's a larger amount than the sales tax deduction...
But, I have an older relative in the same state, and since most of his retirement income is exempt from state income tax, the sales tax deduction is of more use to him..
As always, consult someone else besides us... lol
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I am getting ready to purchase a new E Class (deciding between 4 dr and 2 dr). In any case the cars that I am interested in have a sticker prices of between $56K and $58K.
I would appreciate some guidance on how to secure a best deal and what discounts/incentives are available. I do not own a high line vehicle now and do not know about USAA.
Thanks in advance.
The sedan is much longer and wider and the trunk capacity is among the best in it's class. Additionally, the sedan has an electronic transmission selector on the right side of the steering column thus providing for a much larger console with lots more storage. The seats are larger both front and back in the sedan.
As for ride and handling, the sedan is smoother, especially on streets and highways. The coupe is much sportier and handles more like a sports car.
Pricing is almost identical, as you have already noted.
You should be able to acquire a 1.9% loan for up to 66 months. You can and should negotiate that 1.9 down a little because they have a 1% mark-up. I was able to get 1.6 for 66 months.
Since you don't qualify for loyalty or USAA, it appears that the finance rate is your best bet.
To determine the approximate invoice of the car you want, you can look it up on Edmunds once you've built your car and priced it. Another way is to subtract the delivery/shipping fee of 875 and then multiply the remaining amount by .93 and then add the 875 back in. The remaining amount is what the dealer paid for the car less about 2% which is hold back which most dealers will not give up.
If you offer the dealer invoice for the car, you will eventually end up at about 500 over. It all depends on inventory and what is available. The more flexible you are regarding color and equipment, the better deal you will get.
Good luck!
2021 Genesis G90
Either you qualified for an incentive(s) or the dealer lost 3000+ on the deal or you had a trade and he made up for the loss on the trade. No dealer is going to take a 3000+ loss on a 2012 E350 sedan, especially with inventories at an all time low throughout the country.
I am truly amazed! Perhaps other readers can provide input here. Quite frankly, I do not believe the two stories of buying a 2012 E350 sedan for over 3000 below dealer invoice without USAA pricing, conquest incentives loyalty incentives, etc.
2021 Genesis G90